Ailene Voisin: What's up with Peja? Not his confidence

I Must Admit ...

Voisin brings up THE BEST OF TWO WORLDS on paper very well.

Some of these things may happen, some will not .... some will happen sometimes, and other times they will not. Peja is consistent at what he does and inconsistent at what he doesn't do ... make sense ???

"He is what he is" ....

More times than not, I'm a HUGE Peja fan .... always will be ... I just like the dude.

My disappointment is when I want him to SHINE/PEFORM/BE THERE the most, he's not.

I still have faith and hope in #16 .... one day he'll make us all proud !!!
 
Come on can't you like them both???

Dam Peja Vs. Webber again? This kind of stuff is driving me crazy! Webber wasn't there last night so Peja had to step up, and he did! He had 26 and grabbed some boards, he scored outside, he scored inside. I really was happy to see him step up. I was even more happy to see him throw some down!
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All that aside, If Webber can play at the level he has so far this season(and especially this last stretch) There is no more debate. 1st year Peja, 2nd year Peja or even last year MVP candidate Peja... none of them are as effective in as many different ways as Webber is. Webbs gotta be on the floor. That being said.. Peja is the best shooter in the world. We need to get him open, and get him the ball or we won't win period.
 
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VF21 said:
That is the whole story of Pedja, summarized in one paragraph. If he can do what Voisin has said, he will truly be one of the all-time greats.

I totally agree.

The question for me is how much he wants it. I also think he needs to believe that he can.
 
Bricklayer said:
As an aside with Webber thinking "shoot first" we ran off 7 straight wins recently.

Closer to point, wimping and whining from various secotrs aside, this is on Peja, always has been. When he's aggressive, he gets the ball. If he moved in his 6 pt game the way he moved last night, he would have gotten the ball. But he doesn't always. And let's not even get to the rebounding/hustle which has NOTHING to do with shooting whatsoever -- you know what I call a 6'10" guy who doesn't rebound because he's not getting enough shots? I call him a prima donna.

Peja is a naturally passive individual. Aggression and competition do not seem to be instincts with him so much as they are decisions. He has a great talent (shooting) but it takes an inordinate amount of handholding and "is this ok with you Peja" negotiation to get things set up just right for him. I think you could even make a pretty good argument that Peja himself was not nearly so responsible for his great season last year as was Vlade Divac -- the friend/mentor who dedicated himself to making Peja a star, held his hand, looked for him first, talked to him constantly etc.. Peja may not have ben entirely off base at being upset Vlade was leaving -- Peja body remains, but a significant part of his heart and his fight may have walked out the door in the person of Vlade.

I've played with guys like Peja before. Many of us probably have. He's the super-talented guy on your team who is better than you, but lacks that fire. While you're fighting and scrapping out there fro everything you can get, you are perpetually worried whether he's still with you or not. You are fighting his battles as well as yours. He's the guy who you make a point of going over to before the game and saying "let's do this", who you go out of your way to hi-five after every good play, who you call over and say "going to be looking for you next time down the court". In short, the guy who can win the game for you, but you have to spend all game long pumping up + inspiring, kind of like a balloon with a leak.

And that's all ok. It has to be because those guys can do things that I cannot. If I take care of the dirty work, and if I/we can just keep his head in the game, you can win a lot with a guy like that. But then one day a guy walks onto your team, and he's big and he's strong and he's also much better than you. But this guy is different -- when you go flying to the glass to snatch that board he's right there with you fighting over the ball, when you go over to pump him up and say "let's do this!" he barks right back "hell yeah!". When you go scrambling after that loose ball, he's diving right beside you. And then you know you're home. To use a term that I don't personally, you've found your dawg. And then you don't worry about the passive talent over in the corner so much anymore. He's got to fend for himself at some point and you've already found your winner.

We spend very little time asking/complaining how come everybody else on the team isn't being helped by their teammates. No "why aren't his teammates making Mike/Brad/Webb/Mobley a better player" threads. Nor should there be. They are grown men. Professinal athletes. And while they all mess up from time to time, they are responsible for themselves and their actions. And so is Peja, although his fans seem not to realize that. And the day Peja realizes that, the day he starts taking responsibility for himself every game, the day he quits relying on others + the alignment of the stars to determine when he will be inspired, that's the day when he will finally be the player he can be.
Really well written, and right to the point^^
 
You don't get awarded a lucrative contract making you the focus point of the franchise if people,in this case some very highly regarded basketball minds, think you are someone who makes others around you worse.

-> See Yogi Stewart. $24 million 6 year contract for a guy who used to average 1-2 minutes per game. :eek: There is no way you can convince me that the contract is always an indication how good a player is.
 
Damn, I wanted to write that (Voisin).

I have only one thought that hasn't been mentioned, and it's this: How many other teams in the league would be willing to facilitate Peja so he can do his magic? My guess is many.

We have 5 good starting shooters, and not many teams (that I know of) have two big-men starters who like to spend time at the top of the paint and shoot. Is Peja expected to be waiting under the basket to facilitate the big men who want to shoot? This is an honest question.

As to Peja's obvious fear of defending and rebounding down low, how does one overcome this? I think it's fear of the defender giving a hard foul that causes Peja to miss those point-blank layups, just too much thinking. About getting hurt. Keeps him from digging out loose balls too, I think.

Are these excuses? Naw, just trying to understand. But this I know, I would not like Kings to be forced to compete against him, with a team willing to do whatever it takes to keep him shooting.
 
albeitrue said:
Are these excuses? Naw, just trying to understand. But this I know, I would not like Kings to be forced to compete against him, with a team willing to do whatever it takes to keep him shooting.

Wouldn't bother me at all. If Peja ever does force his way onto another team I think he's going to be in for a rude awakening of just how tough it is to be "the man" on a team which does NOT feature multiple weapons and lead the league in assists every year. When you're relatively unathletic and can't create your own shot you simply can't afford to be doubled all game long because you don't have the skills to get away.
 
Bricklayer said:
No he's not the same player. He played with Webber for YEARS before last season, and he was very consistent: 48% shooter, 5.5 to 6 rebs 2.5 ast etc. etc. This is the worst version of Peja we have seen to date since he emerged as a starter. He has games where he looks like the "old Peja" and then 3 or 4 game stretches where he's just out to lunch and going through the motions.

Sure, take away the little extra plays that Vlade specifically set for Pedja and this is really the exact same Pedja with Webber that I've known all of his career.
 
keflanag said:
Hmmm ... let's see ... Webber gets traded to Washington, who instantly became a playoff contender. The year they made it they lost 3 tough games to a guy named Jordan. Since he's left they made the playoffs ... ummm, oh yeah ... never. Then he shows up to Sacramento. How many years did they make the playoffs before he arrived? How many straight years have the Kings made the playoffs since? Enough said. No, it's not ALL Webber. But to say he makes others worse is absurd. With his court awareness, passing skills, and rebounding he does nothing but improved any team he is on.

We all know that Sacramento team was well capable of reaching the playoffs (and most probably doing a lot more) without Webber as well.
 
sloter said:
Sure, take away the little extra plays that Vlade specifically set for Pedja and this is really the exact same Pedja with Webber that I've known all of his career.

Really? Was Vlade tipping rebounds over to him as well? :rolleyes:

In which case btw its a question of Vlade making Peja better, not anybody making him worse. And that would also be seriously bad news for Peja, because I've got news for him -- Vlade is pretty much retired. If Peja becomes just another scorer without the old man's presence, then the rest of his career is going to be a struggle. We've already got the best passing big men currently in the league, Peja's not going to go somewhere else and find another Vlade. Wait till he gets a load of a Michael Olowakandi bounce pass delivered right to the groin. :eek:
 
Bricklayer said:
Wait till he gets a load of a Michael Olowakandi bounce pass delivered right to the groin. :eek:

I love those passes especially when we play Wolves. Any time we need a turnover - Kandi is there to help out.
 
I don't know, Brick. It seems to me that when you are leading the league in FGA per minute (and you're not even that effective at scoring) and you take away the shots from other better shooters you're not doing them much favor...
As for Pedja's rebounding there's really no excuse.
 
KP said:
Dam Peja Vs. Webber again? This kind of stuff is driving me crazy! Webber wasn't there last night so Peja had to step up, and he did! He had 26 and grabbed some boards, he scored outside, he scored inside. I really was happy to see him step up. I was even more happy to see him throw some down!
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All that aside, If Webber can play at the level he has so far this season(and especially this last stretch) There is no more debate. 1st year Peja, 2nd year Peja or even last year MVP candidate Peja... none of them are as effective in as many different ways as Webber is. Webbs gotta be on the floor. That being said.. Peja is the best shooter in the world. We need to get him open, and get him the ball or we won't win period.

I agree with you, whenever Webber is out, etc..Peja's game is great..but when Webber is there ehh.. you know how Webber is im not blaming him but the ball seems to be passed to webb most of them time..none of the "oh hes my best friend ill pass it to him stuff.." I say pass the ball to Peja more often and guaranteed his game will be great.
 
Serb_Sweetie16 said:
I agree with you, whenever Webber is out, etc..Peja's game is great..but when Webber is there ehh.. you know how Webber is im not blaming him but the ball seems to be passed to webb most of them time..none of the "oh hes my best friend ill pass it to him stuff.." I say pass the ball to Peja more often and guaranteed his game will be great.

i'm confused. is it some sort of secret that the kings offense has run thru webber the past 3-4 seasons? webber's assists are high when the kings offense is at its best, and thats when guys are cutting and slashing to the basket, coming off screens and keeping their feet moving. when theyre just standing around, whattya expect other than for webb to shoot the ball? i feel bad for webber, cuz no matter how well he plays people (in general) are going to give him crap. if he's off one night, people will give him crap for taking too many (open) shots (that he can make). if he's hot the next night, people will give him crap for taking away peja's shots. either way, webber's gonna get crap, and i think it's both unfair and unreasonable for people (in general, not dogging on anyone in particular) to pile so much blame on him. look at the kings record, and tell me that, if webber was still injured, we would be flourishing in the same manner. there is now way. doubters just need to suck it up and accept the fact that we dont get to the finals without webb. we dont even get close.
 
RageMe11 said:
I also agree with this statement that if webber thinks pass first then we win, and everyone plays better. But does anyone ever notice that webb doesn't really pass to peja at all...think about it, and then watch the next game that they play together, i can almost guarantee that you can count how many times webb passes to peja at all, even when he is wide open in the corner, webb will shoot. I always sort of wondered what that was all about, i just think that if peja is open, we should get him the ball. Especially if he is wide open in the corner. This is not any type of webber bashing, just a question to see if anyone else has noticed this?

I thought Bibby was the one who never passed to Peja.

I'm getting confused.:confused:
 
sloter said:
And as a blinded Webber fan you probably shouldn't.

1) That would be like the pot calling the kettle black. 2) If you think I am a blinded Webber fan you probably don't read my posts. 3) I'm not going to sit here and try to "prove" something to you that doesn't need to be proved.
 
DeAtHrOw said:
You don't get awarded a lucrative contract making you the focus point of the franchise if people,in this case some very highly regarded basketball minds, think you are someone who makes others around you worse.

-> See Yogi Stewart. $24 million 6 year contract for a guy who used to average 1-2 minutes per game. :eek: There is no way you can convince me that the contract is always an indication how good a player is.

Oh, come on....
 
Bricklayer said:
...

We spend very little time asking/complaining how come everybody else on the team isn't being helped by their teammates. No "why aren't his teammates making Mike/Brad/Webb/Mobley a better player" threads. Nor should there be. They are grown men. Professinal athletes. And while they all mess up from time to time, they are responsible for themselves and their actions. And so is Peja, although his fans seem not to realize that. And the day Peja realizes that, the day he starts taking responsibility for himself every game, the day he quits relying on others + the alignment of the stars to determine when he will be inspired, that's the day when he will finally be the player he can be.

VF21 said:

Ditto.
 
#1sacfan said:
I have said it once and I will say it again, the Kings play their best ball when Pedja is their main offensive weapon (more efficient playing). Does that mean passing up good shots to let Pedja shoot - no!! It does however mean trying to get him involved from the out set. It would not kill CWebb to set a pick every once in a while (this goes for Brad as well). I am still amazed that the only 2 guys on this team who seem to know how to set a pick are the 2 best shooters, Mike and Pedja. In the end it all comes down to the coaching staff and what they decide and in that case the Kings will win their games and a playoff series and then lose in a disappointing fashion.

Wait a minute - the entire King's offense relies on the picks that the bigs set for the little guys. Usually Mike Bibby (or whoever is playing the point) will give it Webb or Miller and then run a screen off of him. That is usually how they are able to get open looks and make those nice passes from the high post to players cutting right down the center of the lane. As for Pedja Stojacovic, I agree with Vf that he is getting many oppurtunites recently that he just doesn't seem to be hitting. Just look at his shooting percentages - such a significant drop cannot be blamed on C-Webb or a lack of oppurtunities.
 
Padrino said:
i'm confused. is it some sort of secret that the kings offense has run thru webber the past 3-4 seasons? webber's assists are high when the kings offense is at its best, and thats when guys are cutting and slashing to the basket, coming off screens and keeping their feet moving. when theyre just standing around, whattya expect other than for webb to shoot the ball? i feel bad for webber, cuz no matter how well he plays people (in general) are going to give him crap. if he's off one night, people will give him crap for taking too many (open) shots (that he can make). if he's hot the next night, people will give him crap for taking away peja's shots. either way, webber's gonna get crap, and i think it's both unfair and unreasonable for people (in general, not dogging on anyone in particular) to pile so much blame on him. look at the kings record, and tell me that, if webber was still injured, we would be flourishing in the same manner. there is now way. doubters just need to suck it up and accept the fact that we dont get to the finals without webb. we dont even get close.

I agree one-hundred percent. The truth is that Webber has always been the focal point of the offense - and has led the Kings to their success. Granted, the Kings played well without him last year, but one just needs to look at the 02-03 playoffs and see how much the team really needs him. Anyone who has watched the Kings knows that if someone is cutting or open, Webber is as willing to pass to them as much as any other player in the league. In my opinion, Pedja is a great player and deserves the ball as much as anyone in the league. That being said, C-Webb is not asking people not to cut and create opportunities for themselves. If its anybody's fault it is Peja's for doing nothing while Webber has the ball.
 
ReinadelosReys said:
Sloter, I respect your opinion as an NBA fan, but that right there is the most erroneous absurd statement that has been attached to your name. I cannot, nor do I want to even fathom how one could come up with that line of thinking.

IMO, the differences between a "great-HOF" type player and a "good-average" player is the ability to make others around you better. Jordan did that, Magic did that, Oscar Robertson did that etc. Now, I am not saying that Chris Webber is a "great" player, a term that if you ask me is thrown around and attached too easily to players, but he is the closest thing the Kings have to it, that's for sure.

You don't get awarded a lucrative contract making you the focus point of the franchise if people,in this case some very highly regarded basketball minds, think you are someone who makes others around you worse. You don't get selected to All-star games, All NBA teams, POW, POM if people think you are a player that makes others around you worse.

::chuckes::

You know, leave it to poison to get everyone talking about this.

Night in and night out the goal of the team is to win games, not to make sure Peja's feelings aren't hurt-or anyone else for that matter. I couldn't care less who shoots the most shots or scores the most points as long as the Kings as a team score more points than the other team. That is what its supposed to be about. The moment those players step on the court, the money is not an issue, the articles and fans perceptions is not an issue. Its about producing and winning.

The Kings players, 1-12, aren't selfish, the lead the L in assist per game for crying out loud.[/QUOTE

Excellent arguement. The truth is that the Kings are extremly unselfish (yeah, even that Webber guy you all seem to hate) and there isn't an announcer in the NBA from Charles Barkley to Steve Kerr that would site selfishness as the King's flaw.
 
Bricklayer said:
We spend very little time asking/complaining how come everybody else on the team isn't being helped by their teammates. No "why aren't his teammates making Mike/Brad/Webb/Mobley a better player" threads. Nor should there be. They are grown men. Professinal athletes. And while they all mess up from time to time, they are responsible for themselves and their actions. And so is Peja, although his fans seem not to realize that. And the day Peja realizes that, the day he starts taking responsibility for himself every game, the day he quits relying on others + the alignment of the stars to determine when he will be inspired, that's the day when he will finally be the player he can be.

Hey Brick, normally I agree with you, but I have to say this - are you giving in to your own biases and being just a tad, no make that grossly - unfair to Pedja here? If I were to judge you by this posting alone I would have to say that you're "Pedja hater" (I did not say Webber homer and I am not failing for that ol' nugget - Pedja vs. Webb). There is absolutely nothing wrong with Pedja being Pedja and not being MJ. You seem to be arguing with Webber haters and Pedja boosters, instead of judgung Pedja on his own merit . Whether Pedja is the next coming of "The Great One" or just a poor man's Chris Mullin is irrelevant. He is a very valuable commodity that happens to be contractually obligated to drop those shots for Sacramento Kings. He is either a tool for the Kings to challenge for the chanpionship or a very juicy traid bait at the very worst. But what he is not is some softy Euro who just doesn't have it in him to win (especially since he has enough bling-bling to decorate every Kings' locker - and please do not underestimate winning titles abroad just because it was not beemed directly to your living room).

It should be clear by now to anyone who has ever observed a single game of basketball that Pedja either plays Pedja ball or Pedja is ineffective. Full stop. It is a simple fact that does not in any way detract from Webber or any of his teammates that Pedja is more effective when Princeton offence is compromised _not_ to go through a big guy (leaving just movement portion of the doctrine). Nothing to do with Webber, Vlade or any other teammate. Especially Vlade since he was semi retired last year if it wasn't for Brad...

Pedja is a pure shooter, plain and simple. He's game is all about "getting the ball _in front of him_" (either through cuts, movement off of the ball of any variety). If we're to start belittling him because he cannot dribble as well as Mike or rebound and have good hands as well as Webb, we might as well say that Webber would not average 5 ast. per game if his teammates didn't make the shots and Bibby wouldn't be so clutch if the team didn't keep the games close until the dieng seconds.

I cannot believe that I am the only one who is proposing that Pedja's regression this year is to do with his identity as an NBA player. Where is he to go from now? He's greatest success in NBA (last year's regular season) came at the expense of Webber injury and team's refocosing at him. Is Pedja somehow supposed to take a time travel trip back to 2003 and pick it up from there? Clearly, the next step for him is to maintain his sharp-shooter game and try to take that to the next level. I'm talking Antoiwn Walker kind of commitment to the 3-point shot. Is he doing this at the expense of the whole franchise? NO! He's main problem is (as you do indicate Brick in a different way) that he is too nice.

And let's not try to roll out that ol' nugget that Pedja is not doing enough with his talent. The same is true for anyone who played on the kings in 2002-2003. Vlade, Chris, DC - all of them. Let's make it clear - the real talent wasters in the NBA are your Jason Williams', Anoiwn Walker's, Vladimir Radmanovic's etc.

Well, I vented alright.
 
acisking said:
ReinadelosReys said:
Night in and night out the goal of the team is to win games, not to make sure Peja's feelings aren't hurt-or anyone else for that matter. I couldn't care less who shoots the most shots or scores the most points as long as the Kings as a team score more points than the other team. That is what its supposed to be about. The moment those players step on the court, the money is not an issue, the articles and fans perceptions is not an issue. Its about producing and winning.

I like these comments! People sometimes think the players care only about money, which is arguable.
 
No, to be a "Peja hater" would indicate, if we were going to judge on the same scale as the "Webber haters" that I would have to discount all value Peja has to the team and simultaneously blame him for all of his teammates failings.

I do nothing of the sort. I blame Peja for PEJA'S failings, and you know what? Its long overdue.
 
I loved how the Rise Guys jumped all over this, this morning.

Besides the Grant show now I will no longer listen to their crap. If you can get it 1050 and 680 are way better sports channels.

Although I like Rome and Don and Mike
 
I am getting to the point where I think the biggest problem the Kings have is the Sacramento media - print and broadcast.

Where's the positive commentary? Why is it ALWAYS about the failings? Is any other market so infested with media types who want to bite the hand that feeds them?

If I wasn't hooked on Get Fuzzy, I'd probably be canceling my Bee subscription. Thankfully, I don't get KHTK up here so I'm spared the blatherings of the Rise Guys, Grant, the cacophony of callers with an aggregate IQ close to the jersey number of my all-time favorite player, etc.

It isn't about the sports any more for most of them. It's about them - their byline, their air time, THEIR audience, etc. We and the team are merely a means to an end.

Blech...
 
VF21 said:
I am getting to the point where I think the biggest problem the Kings have is the Sacramento media - print and broadcast.

Where's the positive commentary? Why is it ALWAYS about the failings? Is any other market so infested with media types who want to bite the hand that feeds them?

If I wasn't hooked on Get Fuzzy, I'd probably be canceling my Bee subscription. Thankfully, I don't get KHTK up here so I'm spared the blatherings of the Rise Guys, Grant, the cacophony of callers with an aggregate IQ close to the jersey number of my all-time favorite player, etc.

It isn't about the sports any more for most of them. It's about them - their byline, their air time, THEIR audience, etc. We and the team are merely a means to an end.

Blech...

I just posted a new topic about the local media. I will say I was so PO'd this morning hearing what the Rguys had to say. I already stopped listening to Grant and Lamb.

Now I gotta put the Rguys outside the circle of trust. I skip reading the Bee now also just not worth reading their garbage.
 
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