About our starting C position...what should we do?

[AriesMar27]

@ Oprastaj.

I didn't think it was that hard to read into that post. Do I really come off that vapid? Honestly, if you give Spencer Abdul-Jabbar as a personal coach he would have made it to Bynum's level in two years, not four (it has taken Bynum 4 years to start producing to his full potential). Bynum may be a beast, but he's a blockhead. The comparison was made to draw up similarities in their early progress and their attitudes.

Spencer is an easy comparison to a big, technically skilled euro. I don't know why that's such a stretch.

And I want to brim with optimism.

So there.

ditto... Bynum has Kareem, Howard has Ewing, hawes has Kenny Thomas... He needs a bigman coach. Or another full sized center to practice against...

 

[mdme]

ditto... Bynum has Kareem, Howard has Ewing, hawes has Kenny Thomas... He needs a bigman coach. Or another full sized center to practice against...

Well, not that it makes that much of a difference.......Hawes has Shareef.

 

[AriesMar27]

Well, not that it makes that much of a difference.......Hawes has Shareef.

I thought that shareef was just some random assistant. If he's the teams bigman coach then I see why hawes is such a wuss and Thompson is such a foul prone player. Shareef was a classic good player on a bad team type of player. He wasn't great at anything but was good enough to get by...

 

[jcassio]

I'm as frustrated with Hawes this year as I can imagine being with any Kings player. He's got head problems, IMO. But as much as I'd like to kick him to the curb for disappointing me, I also realize that we've got a lot invested in him (as a lottery pick) and we get nothing from that investment if we sell when the value's down. So we need to find a way to increase his value. Maybe that means he loses his starting role. Then, when/if his value increases, we can either get rid of him, or come to believe in him. But as a starting center in his 3rd year as a pro, he just doesn't get the job done.

 

[Sac.1989]

dont Hawes and JT have Reef + Truck Robinson

 

[Chupacabra]

I thought that shareef was just some random assistant. If he's the teams bigman coach then I see why hawes is such a wuss and Thompson is such a foul prone player. Shareef was a classic good player on a bad team type of player. He wasn't great at anything but was good enough to get by...

Im going to have to say NO on this. Shareef was an undersized bigman who possessed a lethal array of back to the basket skills. Remember when he made Tim Duncan look like his little brother in the playoffs in 2006? Good players cant help that their team is bad. I feel like alot of high level talent gets slighted by many an untrained eye.
However, I dont think Shareef is a natural leader. This would mean he probably isnt the best coaching candidate.

 

[Prince_XY]

I thought that shareef was just some random assistant. If he's the teams bigman coach then I see why hawes is such a wuss and Thompson is such a foul prone player. Shareef was a classic good player on a bad team type of player. He wasn't great at anything but was good enough to get by...

Bullseye!

I agree with you. Shareef is a mediocre player at best who happened to play on a bad team. The guy had been over-rated.

And please people, not Shareef. It is scary Hawes might have been getting some honest advice from this player. Shareef, because of previous injury had played with lackluster effort for the Kings for most of the games, for fear of having that career-ending reinjury which did happen!

You don't want Hawes to develop that mentality of being overly cautious on banging with the real BIGS at NBA ( softie ), lest he gets that career-ending reinjury to his knees which can end his million dollar checks a year. Knowing Hawes is a very smart Kid, this is not far from being true.

 

[mac]

And anyway why are we comparing SAR to the likes of Kareem and Ewing? Seriously, even without taking anything away from SAR's game, even if he is really good, to compare him to the likes of those two? Err.... *scratches head*

I know there was no direct comparison but saying that Hawes having SAR is as good as Bynum having kareem ...

 

[Jespher]

Big men take time to develop in this league. People forget that Spencer has only been in the league for 3 years and is still 21 years old. Sure he's not LeBron James or Dwight Howard, but he has plenty of potential to be one of three big men in a rotation for a championship contender during his prime. He has plenty of offensive, and yes even defensive potential to shine in this league for many years, it will just take ample helpings of patience, dedication to improving his game day to day and month by month, and adding some front court depth to pick up the slack when he has his growing pains. I feel the biggest problem with Spencer's game is his consistency, and the lack of depth around him to pick up the slack when he does have youthful mistakes. The addition of a legitimate third big would do worlds for this teams chances of contention.

This Kings team has far surpassed my expectations, and I believe they are on the right track to rebuilding the franchise towards respectability, and eventual contention. I'm not expecting playoff results with a still rebuilding team, but I do see the potential with these young pieces, and I like the way they fit together and the glimpses of greatness we see with their erratic play.

Evaluating young players is similar to the stock market. For the most part, the players are very inconsistant, and have their moments that hurt the team (quick shots or poor defensive rotations), but they also show glimpses of skills that can help the team (blocked shots/offensive versatility). I don't want to sell my Spencer Hawes stock because I've seen his ability to effect the game positively as a starter. Two years ago he had a monster first week of the season and averaged around 3+ blocks a game. He is an excellent passer, especially for a center, and ball movement is very important to playoff success as it allows teams to continue to score when the tempo slows to a half court style of play. While he has shown a penchant for outside shooting, he has also shown enough skill to convert most of those attempts over his career, especially in the Lakers game last season where he was a beast! While his stock may be dropping this season, he has yet to find his role on this team, and I feel as he jells with his teammates and coach Westphal that his consistency will improve. Don't forget that many fans sold their Donte Greene stock during the preseason when he looked to be buried in the rotation, and now look how he's shined during the recent games. Give it time. Young players are up and down, but overall, these Kings are growing together, and the finished product will be really exciting to watch contend. Go Kings!

 

[Oprostaj]

@ Oprastaj.

I didn't think it was that hard to read into that post. Do I really come off that vapid? Honestly, if you give Spencer Abdul-Jabbar as a personal coach he would have made it to Bynum's level in two years, not four (it has taken Bynum 4 years to start producing to his full potential). Bynum may be a beast, but he's a blockhead. The comparison was made to draw up similarities in their early progress and their attitudes.

Spencer is an easy comparison to a big, technically skilled euro. I don't know why that's such a stretch.

And I want to brim with optimism.

So there.

Okay, we seem to be the same age, so you must agree on one thing - Spencer has not exibited anything close to Bynum's toughness, so I don't care if the give him Lambeer, Kareem or whoever you want, he will stay a wuss. You don't just grow a pair of balls at this age. You either have them, or you don't. Hawes seems to be allergic to the paint, and the less times he spends there, the more i want him out of here.

How is Hawes compared to a big technical euro? Because he's white, tall, and shoots (doesn't make) from the outside? Have you ever seen a Euro game? Those guys mix it up inside as much as anybody - they stay outside and shoot because those types of moves are big parts in the Euro game - the rules are different, players are less athletic and they actually practice shooting from the beginning. Those same players also have superior passing skills and really do go inside. Hawes is weak, he's a wuss and his only comparison to the Euro game is his height and skin color.

I do agree about the fact that both him and Bynum were ineffective in his early career, but they are fundamentaly different players. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm attacking you, but your posts are just weird... they make no sense. Come on man, really... Divac and Sabonis?? have you seen either of those guys play????

 

[Emma]

Okay, we seem to be the same age, so you must agree on one thing - Spencer has not exibited anything close to Bynum's toughness, so I don't care if the give him Lambeer, Kareem or whoever you want, he will stay a wuss. You don't just grow a pair of balls at this age. You either have them, or you don't. Hawes seems to be allergic to the paint, and the less times he spends there, the more i want him out of here.

Agreed

How is Hawes compared to a big technical euro? Because he's white, tall, and shoots (doesn't make) from the outside? Have you ever seen a Euro game? Those guys mix it up inside as much as anybody - they stay outside and shoot because those types of moves are big parts in the Euro game - the rules are different, players are less athletic and they actually practice shooting from the beginning. Those same players also have superior passing skills and really do go inside. Hawes is weak, he's a wuss and his only comparison to the Euro game is his height and skin color.

Hawes, on occasion, has exhibited a sweet shooting touch:

(This is from www.armchairgm.wikia.com/NBA_Draft_Positional_Rankings)

Spencer Hawes 7’0’’ 244 Washington Strengths: Advanced low-post scoring skills and good shooting touch. Weaknesses: Doesn’t possess overwhelming athleticism, but has enough to get by.

And we've seen him pass with some semblance of ability.

I do agree about the fact that both him and Bynum were ineffective in his early career, but they are fundamentaly different players. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm attacking you, but your posts are just weird... they make no sense. Come on man, really... Divac and Sabonis?? have you seen either of those guys play????

You think that's delusional? How about our friends at draftexpress:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Spencer-Hawes-483/
"Hawes continued to show perhaps the most impressive back to the basket feel of any 7-footer to emerge as a pro prospect since Tim Duncan."

I have seen Vlade and Sabonis play. Though they possessed extraordinary point center skills and the "balls" which Spencer has been found lacking, I believe that Spencer could get on or near their level if he just pulled his head out. This is where we drastically diverge on the young man's ceiling.

Not all of my posts are wierd (come on!), but I admit that the one you're complaining about may come off that way. I guess it's just the way I write? Anyway, we have our respected opinions, no hard feelings from me.

 

[bajaden]

Man i am just hopping for joy with that list.

Get Okur if we cant get Bosh.

Glad I could make your day. Happy Thanksgiving!!

 

[Telemachus]

And Hawes is done. He's had enough time to show himself as far as I'm concerned, and he ended up being nothing but a softy who makes defense difficult for the rest of the team with his presence on the court.

Based on this statement, you would fall into a long category of people who are too quick to judge centers when they come into the NBA. There are 2 positions that consistently take a while for players to develp - PG & Center. And the Center (or Pivot) position is notorious for taking 3 or more years to find out what you have.

Robert Parish didn't do much in his first 2 seasons, but turned out to be pretty good. Bill Laimbeer started to get it in his 3rd season, but became good in his 4th. Jermaine O'Neal didn't do anything til his 5th season. It also took Chris Kaman til his 5th season to be an impact player.

These are just a few examples I was able to come up with off the top of my head. The point is that Hawes is very young and playing a position that only a few dominate right away. That doesn't mean he will ever develop into a great starting center, but to rule out the fact that he will even improve is a VERY big reach. History doesn't back up your theory.

 

[Telemachus]

Bynum... I mean really?? I get that Bynum was not terribly effective in his career, but when he wasn't injured he was a beast on the boards. This is a guy that, albeit idiotically, still went AFTER SHAQ. What would Hawes do vs Shaq? **** himself? Cry? Curl up into a fetal position? All of the above not necessarily in that order?

While I agree that Bynum and Hawes play completely different styles, I think you are giving Bynum much more credit that he deserves. He has career numbers (including this season) of 9.4 pts, 6.4 rbs, and 1.5 blks. He is in his 5th season, and only in his 2nd has be played more than 50 games. In his 3rd season, everyone was calling him the next great center with him averaging 13.1 pts & 10.2 rbs. Of course, he only played 35 games that year. And he has the benefit of playing with Kobe, which helps him from being double-teamed as much as he would be elsewhere.

I remember after his 2nd season, there were a lot of fans in LA that wanted to get rid of Bynum after he put up 7.8 pts & 5.9 rbs a game. He was also referred to as soft by some national media on occasion, but most just didn't think his work ethic was good enough. Now he IS putting up all-star type numbers (5th season) at the age of 22. This is why you don't give up on young talent too early.

 

[roasthawg]

Based on this statement, you would fall into a long category of people who are too quick to judge centers when they come into the NBA. There are 2 positions that consistently take a while for players to develp - PG & Center. And the Center (or Pivot) position is notorious for taking 3 or more years to find out what you have.

Robert Parish didn't do much in his first 2 seasons, but turned out to be pretty good. Bill Laimbeer started to get it in his 3rd season, but became good in his 4th. Jermaine O'Neal didn't do anything til his 5th season. It also took Chris Kaman til his 5th season to be an impact player.

These are just a few examples I was able to come up with off the top of my head. The point is that Hawes is very young and playing a position that only a few dominate right away. That doesn't mean he will ever develop into a great starting center, but to rule out the fact that he will even improve is a VERY big reach. History doesn't back up your theory.

Good post here... Spencer may or may not still have a lot of upside. It's simply too early to tell one way or another yet.