About our starting C position...what should we do?
- Thread starter mdme
- Start date
IDidntDoDat
Bench
I don't think Spencer will get any better. People might argue that he's 21 and sky is the limit, blah blah blah.. But the fact is, Spencer is a soft 3pt shooting softy, who will be a mediocre bench player at best. He will never be anything close to a starter on an average team.
Right now he's playing in the starting lineup on a pretty bad team, and he can't even shine here. That shows me that he already reached his potential and it's looking rather bad..
I would be very much please to trade K9+Spencer for a defensive center, because Hawes will likely never be anything more than a crappy bench player.
(a little offtopic) JT on the other hand, is probably a pretty good punch off the bench in the future, but I do not see him as a legitimate starter. ALTHOUGH, it may be too early to tell in his case, since it's just his 2nd year in the league.
And Hawes is done. He's had enough time to show himself as far as I'm concerned, and he ended up being nothing but a softy who makes defense difficult for the rest of the team with his presence on the court.
Right now he's playing in the starting lineup on a pretty bad team, and he can't even shine here. That shows me that he already reached his potential and it's looking rather bad..
I would be very much please to trade K9+Spencer for a defensive center, because Hawes will likely never be anything more than a crappy bench player.
(a little offtopic) JT on the other hand, is probably a pretty good punch off the bench in the future, but I do not see him as a legitimate starter. ALTHOUGH, it may be too early to tell in his case, since it's just his 2nd year in the league.
And Hawes is done. He's had enough time to show himself as far as I'm concerned, and he ended up being nothing but a softy who makes defense difficult for the rest of the team with his presence on the court.
I'm a little conflicted about this poll or more accurately the discussion for the simple reason we already have at least three threads going that touch on pretty much the same topic. If it starts to run parallel to those already well underway, I'll probably do some merging...
For purposes of this particular thread, I went with continuing to play Hawes. It's WAY too early to be making snap decisions about him...and someone saying it's a "fact" that "Spencer is a soft 3pt shooting softy" doesn't make it so. That's an opinion, not a fact.
For purposes of this particular thread, I went with continuing to play Hawes. It's WAY too early to be making snap decisions about him...and someone saying it's a "fact" that "Spencer is a soft 3pt shooting softy" doesn't make it so. That's an opinion, not a fact.
IDidntDoDat
Bench
Being someone who watched every Kings game for the past few years, I'll have to say it's pretty much a fact
stevetaebo
Bench
You bench Spencer since he plays well off the bench or play him only against 6-6 centers(DET and HOU) and build up his statistics. Then you trade him along with x pieces to get a good PF/C.
Otherwise, I'd prefer to play x as Center depending what the matchup is for that night.
Softies/small guys - Spencer starts
Biggies with power - Brockman/KT combo
Otherwise, I'd prefer to play x as Center depending what the matchup is for that night.
Softies/small guys - Spencer starts
Biggies with power - Brockman/KT combo
IDidntDoDat - And that, too, is your opinion.
^^And that's a fact. Oh, wait. No it's not. It's my opinion.
To summarize: It's my opinion that your assessment of Spencer Hawes is an opinion and not a fact. And my opinion is supported by the definition of the word "fact."
Sorry, but everyone is entitled to post their opinion. It's not necessary - or valid, again in my opinion - to label it a fact in the hopes it will thus be treated as a fact.
But I've made my point and stated my opinion.
Have a nice day.
^^And that's a fact. Oh, wait. No it's not. It's my opinion.
To summarize: It's my opinion that your assessment of Spencer Hawes is an opinion and not a fact. And my opinion is supported by the definition of the word "fact."
Sorry, but everyone is entitled to post their opinion. It's not necessary - or valid, again in my opinion - to label it a fact in the hopes it will thus be treated as a fact.
But I've made my point and stated my opinion.
Have a nice day.
Emma
Starter
Free agent centers this offseason of note (info from hoopsworld):
Yao Ming (ETO - owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
Memo Okur (Unrestricted)
Marcus Camby (Unrestricted)
Tyson Chandler (ETO - owed $12.8 million in 10/11)
Jermaine O'Neal (Unrestricted)
Shaq O'Neal (Unrestricted)
Brad Miller (Unrestricted)
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (unrestricted)
Of these players I am intrigued most by Memo, who infuriates me, and Tyson Chandler, even though he's struggling through injury. Or we can wait around and see if the FO trades for Okafor or Dalembert.
Edit: I want Spencer to succeed, I want him to suck it up and play like the starter I know he should be. Our third option is to wait this maddening soft spell out.
Yao Ming (ETO - owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
Memo Okur (Unrestricted)
Marcus Camby (Unrestricted)
Tyson Chandler (ETO - owed $12.8 million in 10/11)
Jermaine O'Neal (Unrestricted)
Shaq O'Neal (Unrestricted)
Brad Miller (Unrestricted)
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (unrestricted)
Of these players I am intrigued most by Memo, who infuriates me, and Tyson Chandler, even though he's struggling through injury. Or we can wait around and see if the FO trades for Okafor or Dalembert.
Edit: I want Spencer to succeed, I want him to suck it up and play like the starter I know he should be. Our third option is to wait this maddening soft spell out.
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None of those would be good for the long-term future of this franchise, with the possible exception of Chandler...(and I have reservations there).
We're much better off at this point in time to keep the faith in Hawes, find a better big man coach, and work with him instead of throwing him out with the bath water.
We're much better off at this point in time to keep the faith in Hawes, find a better big man coach, and work with him instead of throwing him out with the bath water.
DirtyAcres
G-League
Hawes is just plain soft, and thinking a different big man coach will change that is wishful thinking. He could be a nice back up though, starter????......only on a team as bad as we are.
NoBonus
Starter
I really don't think that is fair. He had a bad game and is not real consistent like any young player, but he is normally doing all of the things he needs to do... rebounds, blocks, tough D, good inside finesse game, good shooter, good passer... Is he a big beast of a man? No... if that is what you want, I am sure the Kings can pick up Eddy Curry... Hawes has a pretty big upside and the longer he plays on the tough nosed Kings team, the tougher and better he will get.
DirtyAcres
G-League
lol.....have we been watching different games this year?
K
Kingsguy881
Guest
You have no idea how wrong that highlighted portion is. So you are telling me if you put him on the Cavs with LBJ that basketball wouldn't all of a sudden become easier for Spencer? LBJ would draw so much attention that anyone with Spencer's skillset would be an immediate 18 ppg threat.
Part of his problem is that he is on such an underachieving team. Patience is a virtue not readily displayed on this forum.
KingDog
G-League
I have thought the same thing. We know that Spence has some nice moves in his arsenal. What he lacks is a tough streak. In my opinion, a tough streak is not so much a teachable thing. I have, however seen Spencer get more aggressive when he gets mad. We could just hire a coach who does nothing but put Spence in a bad mood all day on game day
Or maybe he could just start spending some quality time hanging out with John Brockman.
IDidntDoDat
Bench
IDidntDoDat - And that, too, is your opinion.
^^And that's a fact. Oh, wait. No it's not. It's my opinion.
To summarize: It's my opinion that your assessment of Spencer Hawes is an opinion and not a fact. And my opinion is supported by the definition of the word "fact."
Sorry, but everyone is entitled to post their opinion. It's not necessary - or valid, again in my opinion - to label it a fact in the hopes it will thus be treated as a fact.
But I've made my point and stated my opinion.
Have a nice day.
Right, so basically, you shouldn't state that my opinion is way off if all you have is your opinion to back it up. I guess it's a battle of opinions, but the cool thing is, no one is wrong. Sooooo, eermmm, yeah, have a FABULOUS day
And because nit picking logic and word usage is fun...
Based off of the definition of the word "fact," VF's claim (that IDDD's statement is opinion) is IN FACT a fact. Now, if the definition of the word FACT is up for debate, then VF's statement would not be fact, but an opinion.
Now to the actual topic:
I voted for trading K9 not because I think Hawes will never be any good, I actually think (or maybe just homerly hope) that he will be good. However, picking up a good defensive big would be good for the team whether of not Hawes pans out.
I also agree with some of the posters in that a good big man coach could do wonders. I like SAR, but I never really liked his game and would rather Hawes not develop in that mold. Now there's a potential poll question:
"Who would be the best big man coach for Hawes?"
Based off of the definition of the word "fact," VF's claim (that IDDD's statement is opinion) is IN FACT a fact. Now, if the definition of the word FACT is up for debate, then VF's statement would not be fact, but an opinion.
Now to the actual topic:
I voted for trading K9 not because I think Hawes will never be any good, I actually think (or maybe just homerly hope) that he will be good. However, picking up a good defensive big would be good for the team whether of not Hawes pans out.
I also agree with some of the posters in that a good big man coach could do wonders. I like SAR, but I never really liked his game and would rather Hawes not develop in that mold. Now there's a potential poll question:
"Who would be the best big man coach for Hawes?"
I have a problem with this assumption. He has obviously shown a great deal of drive and commitment to get to where he is now. To think he will just give up without fighting to make an impact in the NBA seems out of character. Unless there is some emotional issue or the ever popular drugs/alcohol problem, I don't see why Spencer can't be clued in that if he doesn't do something fast, he will be on the fast track to owning a few Burger Kings and being out of the game he loves. There is the possibility that he isn't happy here and like Brad, Mike and others, just stopped trying until they were traded somewhere else - and then go on to perform at a higher level.
K
Kingsguy881
Guest
I have a problem with this assumption. He has obviously shown a great deal of drive and commitment to get to where he is now. To think he will just give up without fighting to make an impact in the NBA seems out of character. Unless there is some emotional issue or the ever popular drugs/alcohol problem, I don't see why Spencer can't be clued in that if he doesn't do something fast, he will be on the fast track to owning a few Burger Kings and being out of the game he loves. There is the possibility that he isn't happy here and like Brad, Mike and others, just stopped trying until they were traded somewhere else - and then go on to perform at a higher level.
Gee, fans calling him soft and garbage and gutless, why would he not be happy here?
rhythmless
Starter
... 
Whatever you think of Hawes' chances over the next few years, we need 1-2 more players who are suitable NBA centers. We can do a trade for one in the next few months, or we can do without, lose more games, and get one in the next draft. Whether you love Hawes' potential or think he'll be a bust, one or both of these needs to happen.
Consider this the beginning of my "A defensive big (not Greg Monroe!) in 2010" campaign.
Consider this the beginning of my "A defensive big (not Greg Monroe!) in 2010" campaign.
DirtyAcres
G-League
I may have called him soft but I've never called him garbage. I think he is a very skilled player, but skilled players can still be soft, and I just don't see him changing that trait, regardless of who we bring in as a big man coach.Gee, fans calling him soft and garbage and gutless, why would he not be happy here?
So if we promise to be hecka-super nice to Spencer will he come out and play?Gee, fans calling him soft and garbage and gutless, why would he not be happy here?
I agree with you on this one. It is a fact that Hawes has been a softy and we can say that upto now. And only those who does not know basketball, or those who hasn't been watching the Kings play, ( or at least those homers who are knowledgeable, but denies the fact ) will say otherwise. I hope Hawes can still change, but it really seems he might remain to be the natural softy center that he is now for the rest of his NBA career. Actually, I see him in the mold of Raef Lafrentz.
As to what to do with our starting center position, I think some fans should start waving a placard during the kings games:
PETRIE, PLEASE DO SOMETHING DRASTIC WITH OUR GLARING NEED FOR A GOOD DEFENSIVE CENTER !
I really think it's time the fans put more pressure on the sleeping Petrie.
Mrs. Hawes, is that you?....j/k
In fairness to Hawes' fans and relatives, I also believe there is still a little bit of hope on Hawes becoming a good center. If he remains to be the softie center that he is, I think he would be a very good back-up center. But for the meantime, I would love the Kings to get a better defensive center while we wait for Hawes to figure it out.
Emma
Starter
I draw a comparison to Spencer Hawes and Andrew Bynum. I see talent, I see attitude, I see potential, I see disappointment. They are similar in their fits and starts, fluctuating productively and commitment-wise in their shared youth.
I have said a couple times that, though I am frustrated by his recent play, I can sense a star. Not a Kevin McHale level star, but more of an Arvydas Sabonis / Divac level star, the type that picks you apart with their intangibles. I am not far removed from that age (20-21), and I have underwent a massive spurt in maturity. Most people can't define their life roles until they are about 25 years old. I believe it may take Spencer just as long. Call it a curse of intelligence.
I have said a couple times that, though I am frustrated by his recent play, I can sense a star. Not a Kevin McHale level star, but more of an Arvydas Sabonis / Divac level star, the type that picks you apart with their intangibles. I am not far removed from that age (20-21), and I have underwent a massive spurt in maturity. Most people can't define their life roles until they are about 25 years old. I believe it may take Spencer just as long. Call it a curse of intelligence.
I honestly think that Spencer's struggles this year are all in his head.
He had a couple of great games last year and showed promise of being an elite big man someday. Yeah he was shooting the 3, but he was also knocking em down. He also had some amazing post move highlights as well. One that specifically comes to mind was when he spun through two defenders like a guard and threw it down, thats not just a fluke. Dude has major talent, and we know that.
It just looks like hes not in the game. Two 3 second calls in so many minutes? Thats lack of focus, nothing else. Hell, maybe he has "social anxiety disorder". How many baseball players last year used that cop out when they were playing like sh*t. Who knows.
He had a couple of great games last year and showed promise of being an elite big man someday. Yeah he was shooting the 3, but he was also knocking em down. He also had some amazing post move highlights as well. One that specifically comes to mind was when he spun through two defenders like a guard and threw it down, thats not just a fluke. Dude has major talent, and we know that.
It just looks like hes not in the game. Two 3 second calls in so many minutes? Thats lack of focus, nothing else. Hell, maybe he has "social anxiety disorder". How many baseball players last year used that cop out when they were playing like sh*t. Who knows.
Your glass isn't full, it's overflowing and is filling up the lake. Spencer is to Bynum as Clippers are to Success under Sterling. Bynum has been playing very well lately, is a beast on the boards and controls the paint. He has a good touch from mid range and actually has post moves. Hawes is a wuss that lives on the perimiter and has shown small glimpses of offensive ability vs some less than stellar competition. I really get the whole being young thing, and I am 23 myself so yes, maturity and development do not fully hit us yet - but you are a professional basketball player. At this level, there are no excuses, only results matter. If C were as abundant as scoring SGs, majority of people at this board would have kicked him to the curb. Seeing as how they are not, we are stuck with a frustratingly confused player.
Also, where in the holy hell do you see Divac/Sabonis traits in Spencer? I will admit, I'm not this kid's biggest fan, but I'm not putting him on that pedestal. Hawes has shown NOTHING except a couple of decent games here and there. Again, he is relatively young and has not had consistency in his pro career, but you are just brimming with confidence and optimism, which I have to see is just blind. At least go with some facts to back it up.
Bynum... I mean really?? I get that Bynum was not terribly effective in his career, but when he wasn't injured he was a beast on the boards. This is a guy that, albeit idiotically, still went AFTER SHAQ. What would Hawes do vs Shaq? **** himself? Cry? Curl up into a fetal position? All of the above not necessarily in that order?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Here's a few you left out.
Darko Milicic (UNRESTRICTED)
Joel Przybilla (ETO)
Brendan Haywood (UNRESTICTED)
Narz Mohammed (ETO)
Johan Petro (UNRESTRICTED)
Kyrylo Fesenko (UNRESTRICTED)
Channing Frye (UNRESTRICTED)
Nathan Jawai (UNRESTRICTED)
DeMoN
Bench
Emma
Starter
@ Oprastaj.I didn't think it was that hard to read into that post. Do I really come off that vapid? Honestly, if you give Spencer Abdul-Jabbar as a personal coach he would have made it to Bynum's level in two years, not four (it has taken Bynum 4 years to start producing to his full potential). Bynum may be a beast, but he's a blockhead. The comparison was made to draw up similarities in their early progress and their attitudes.
Spencer is an easy comparison to a big, technically skilled euro. I don't know why that's such a stretch.
And I want to brim with optimism.
So there.
