Aaron Brooks

Losing Isaiah ?


Maybe IT will be moved in a big trade along with some other Kings players. Otherwise, this doesn't make much sense.


(how many years will we have Brooks ? )
 
The problem is not signing Brooks. A PG tandem of Brooks and IT can work. They can share the 48 minutes at the PG spot, I don't see any problem with that. Both IT and brooks are much better than most of the 2nd unit PGs we had lately (Jeter, Brown, Taylor, Jimmer...).

The problem is at the SG now. We can't have Reke and Thornton sharing minutes here. Both of these guys deserve 32+ minutes on the floor. Thornton could start from the bench, but you have to give him his minutes. So, the only option here is to move Reke at SF again, and have a 3 guards lineup on the floor. This also means no minutes for Salmons, Outlaw, Garcia.
Personally, I don't want to see Reke at SF again. So, maybe the only way to balance our roster is trading Thornton. I'd hate to lose him, because I really like his game and attitude, but if we can get an SF like Iggy there's no way we can pass on that.
 
I agree. I think some people are over-reacting (as usual with any trades, acquisitions). We didn't get worse by getting Johnson and Brooks and getting rid of Whiteside IMHO.
We didn't get worse but did we get better?!

If we did get better, did we get the most bang for our money?!

I honestly don't think we have. Both Johnson and Brooks have pretty reasonable contract, in particular Brooks who at $3.3 million is really not expensive for the type of player he can be.

However, this is year another off-season in the line of many where we look for cheap options regardless of how they fit together and use up the entire cap space and still not improve significantly. In the last 2 off season these are the contract that we have on the books as of right now:

Salmons ($8 million)
Hayes ($5.5 million)
Brooks ($3.3 million)
Outlaw ($3 million)
Johnson ($2.8 million)

This adds up to approximately $22.6 million given to players and we are still not significantly better. Note that I am not including JT and MT who I think are reasonable re-signing in terms of contract vs production and I am not including Garcia's $6.1 million for next season which was signed LONG time ago...back when Adelman was a coach :eek:

I look at that and I say it really is not utilizing resources to the best of our ability because we still have a lot of question marks about our roster. If we didn't have IT and we needed a high octane energy guard on the roster, I would be loving the Brooks signing. The guy is quick, can score in a hurry and can play on the ball and off the ball a bit as well. But when I consider that we have Tyreke, MT and IT already on the roster and each one of them deserves to play good minutes, this move makes no sense.

Then I look at our SF options and I get a migraine! Seriously, never a more useless collection of players with biggest portion of team's salary cap spend on those guys.

We now don't have enough big guys on the roster. We have 4 "bigs"...and I use that term lightly. We absolutely needed an upgrade at SF and I am not convinced we got one. We got a young prospect on the cheap which is fine and worth a shot, but not when your previous 3 moves were also to address the SF position...very unsuccessfully I might add.

I just look at our last 2 off season and I see a great opportunity wasted and no we should not look at these deals and signings on their own because this is a repeating pattern of this team for the last 6-7 years. Last off-season we had the most cap space of any other team, and we failed to utilize it properly, literally pissing it all away on average, has been players. This year we at least went for younger players but its still a case of quantity over quality and that is NOT how you get better in this league.

We have a payroll of $58 million and we have not improved enough to push for the play-off and this is really the time when we should be doing it. We were the worst defensive team in the league last season and we have not improved in that area at all. At the completion of the season our GM came out and said an upgrade at SF and a rim protector are the most pressing needs and where we stand now, we have used up all of our cap space and we have not addressed either of the most pressing needs. What we did was add yet another SF to the mix that will compete with the rest of the sorry lot to be a starter (read not a CLEAR upgrade at the position) and another shot hungry guard to an already trouble and overloaded mix of shot happy guards many of whom do not bring much else to the table.

If we want to be the best, we need to compare ourselves on the best and I ask myself the question, would the OKC front office made these moves (keeping in mind they were in similar position just 2-3 seasons ago) and I keeping coming back with a resounding NO as my answer. I could not see Presti or Buford for that matter ever doing what we have done over the last 2 off-season (I am limiting it to the last 2 off-seasons as those are the ones where we were supposed to "make our big moves")

And to top it off we have one of the Maloof clowns coming out today and saying he thinks we have improved in every position!! REALLY?!?!?!

All I can say to all this mess is:

 
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Watch your fingers. That window/door is slamming shut. I have mentioned before it would be hard to fix the Salmons jimmer hayes offseason and our only chance at playoffs/contending/arena/staying with our young stars might be slipping away unless we changed the culture and made some amazing moves. This offseason did nothing to fix the previous one so far and we are now at the cap.... We have squandered our best chance and next season we are going to want to sign reke to a big deal and extend Cousins and I don't know that we will be able to do either and our team will start getting even worse at that point.

Our Front office identified some needs and then didn't go after them. Everyone above ball boy who isn't a player needs to go. :)

At this point I am not excited to see this season start. I don't have a ton of hope that we will be significantly better and I don't have any hope we will do anything more then run run run small. Fun...
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
All this talk of TWill... solid player, but am I the only one who felt a little uneasy with his bad reputation? I figure he was not helpful in the locker room, either... just from my impressions... not from deftly reported facts.
I don't know about his reputation. He may have turned it around, although let's face it, when a guy has an expiring contract he's going to be on his best behavior. I just don't see him being pg material though. He and Tyreke in the backcourt can't work; not enough playmaking ability and difficulty in bringing the ball up under pressure.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Yah I don't want to see that again this year, but I am sure we will in order to get MT minutes at SG.

I wouldn't mind playing Reke at SF in stretched in order to get both Evans and MT 30+ minutes but I want about 25 of those minutes at SG when it comes to Reke. Hell I wouldn't mind a stretch of about 5-6 minutes at PG either.

So here is a Reke breakdown

29 mins SG
6 mins PG
5 mins SF

There is your 40 mins right there. If he's used in that capacity I wouldn't mind at all.

I got a feeling though that Evans will play more minutes at SF then we want him to in order to get MT his 35 mins.

As for Brooks, and IT there really isn't that many minutes (if any at all) at SG so they are stuck splitting about 25 mins each. Unless for those 6 minutes Evans is at PG Brooks is moved to SG.

I am not looking forward to seeing how the minutes are managed. I foresee midget lineups and players out of position.
Just play Tyreke at SG (and only at SG) and trade Thornton. It doesn't have to be that complicated.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Those comments about Whiteside don't make any sense. Petrie says they needed to cut Whiteside's $900,000 contract so they could afford to sign Brooks. Huh? We're no where near the luxury tax limit. Not to mention, you're still paying Honeycutt $850,000 to be our fourth SF (fifth if you count Garcia) and now Chuck Hayes is our only backup center and he's 6'6". Geoff just dodged the question. Smart says he did everything they asked of him, but wouldn't that imply that the 7' shotblocker should maybe get a few minutes alongside our defensively shaky frontcourt? Clearly they had no faith in him so why not just say it wasn't working out instead of making up these nonsense excuses? It makes me question the credibility of everything else they say.

I don't completely dislike Brooks as a player, I'd tolerate him as a scoring backup PG (ie the Jimmer role), but seeing how Isaiah Thomas has a very similar skillset and Smart is already on the record about wanting to move Tyreke back to the PG spot it's a horrible use of resources right now. It's a problem that Brooks and IT can't defend half the PGs in the league and most of the SGs. It's a problem that both of them are going to look for their shot 10+ times per game which is more often than they're going to setup their teammates. It's a problem that our best two perimeter players now have to split the minutes at the same position.

Two years ago we brought in Dalembert, Whiteside, and Cousins to a lineup that featured the biggest and strongest PG in the league and everyone here celebrated the front office's willingness to finally invest in a full-sized lineup. Barely two years later now we've got the shortest PG rotation in the league, Cousins has been moved to C, two of those 7 footers are gone, and in their place we have two power players in Chuck Hayes and Thomas Robinson who look up at almost all of their opponents. Every physical advantage has been neutralized, we can't defend anybody, and we're once again reliant on our jumpshots falling for any chance to win. Same old, same old. I feel like I've been duped.
 
Those comments about Whiteside don't make any sense. Petrie says they needed to cut Whiteside's $900,000 contract so they could afford to sign Brooks. Huh? We're no where near the luxury tax limit. Not to mention, you're still paying Honeycutt $850,000 to be our fourth SF (fifth if you count Garcia) and now Chuck Hayes is our only backup center and he's 6'6". Geoff just dodged the question. Smart says he did everything they asked of him, but wouldn't that imply that the 7' shotblocker should maybe get a few minutes alongside our defensively shaky frontcourt? Clearly they had no faith in him so why not just say it wasn't working out instead of making up these nonsense excuses? It makes me question the credibility of everything else they say.
Your getting 2 cap lines confused. They can not sign a FA and go over the cap. The luxury tax comes into play when you sign your own FA's or use the MLE to sign players when you are allowed to go over the cap.
 
Same old, same old. I feel like I've been duped.
That's because you were.


You had to wait because the owners and GM ran the cap right off the road and into a ditch. So, you waited. The Kings told you it would be worth it because there was a long term plan that would build this team into a title contender.

They sat on the cap for a while. But they keys always remained in the hands of the same people that put us in a ditch with a flawed team with a poorly structured salary cap.

And then, without any discernible plan, the cap space was frittered away to create another flawed team with a poorly structured salary cap.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Your getting 2 cap lines confused. They can not sign a FA and go over the cap. The luxury tax comes into play when you sign your own FA's or use the MLE to sign players when you are allowed to go over the cap.
Even if we're over the cap now, that doesn't change the fact that they chose to keep Honeycutt instead of Whiteside. Or that we're carrying three useless veteran SFs who could have easily been waived or amnestied to create even more space. Whiteside is a legitimate asset, or was I should say. Not so of Salmons, Outlaw, or Honeycutt. The salary cap management skills exuded by our brilliant front office have got to be the worst in the league.
 
Even if we're over the cap now, that doesn't change the fact that they chose to keep Honeycutt instead of Whiteside. Or that we're carrying three useless veteran SFs who could have easily been waived or amnestied to create even more space. Whiteside is a legitimate asset, or was I should say. Not so of Salmons, Outlaw, or Honeycutt. The salary cap management skills exuded by our brilliant front office have got to be the worst in the league.
Salmons, Outlaw and Garcia have guaranteed deals. Waiving doesn't remove cap space. They aren't going to amnesty salmons and pay him for 3 years to not play. Garcia was more likely to be amnestied at this point on an ender. But then you lose the chance as trade bait.

So it was basically Honeycutt or Whiteside. Whiteside has shown little improvement and appears to have a bad attitude. Honeycutt showed some nice athleticism last year and hasn't really had a chance yet.
 
This is a bizarre move, especially if further moves aren't made (and I'm nearly certain they won't be). But it's not surprising given Geoff's fetish for Brooks going back to before he was even drafted.

It's pretty clear there is no actual plan in place. This is how bad teams stay bad.
 
Salmons, Outlaw and Garcia have guaranteed deals. Waiving doesn't remove cap space. They aren't going to amnesty salmons and pay him for 3 years to not play. Garcia was more likely to be amnestied at this point on an ender. But then you lose the chance as trade bait.

So it was basically Honeycutt or Whiteside. Whiteside has shown little improvement and appears to have a bad attitude. Honeycutt showed some nice athleticism last year and hasn't really had a chance yet.
If we can't find any takers for Cisco, Salmons or Outlaw, I'd much rather place Honeycutt in the rotation and just have the others rot at the end of the bench.
 
This is a bizarre move, especially if further moves aren't made (and I'm nearly certain they won't be). But it's not surprising given Geoff's fetish for Brooks going back to before he was even drafted.

It's pretty clear there is no actual plan in place. This is how bad teams stay bad.
If we don't make another move, I think it's highly possible we don't increase our winning % by more than a tiny margin next year, even though talent wise we should be a playoff team. That doesn't mean the talent fits, which it doesn't, but just looking at sheer talent we have more than other teams who will compete for the playoffs.

I can't believe we blew all our cap room, do not have a defensive PG, do not have a sure fire starting SF(hope for the best from JJ) and don't have any defensive presence down low whatsoever. We're actually less formidable down low than last year, which was a huge step back by itself.

Again though, looking at sheer talent, we're a 40+ win team. But I also think there's little chance the talent we have gets near 40 wins. SO what happens if we come out of the gates and two months in we're not winning at a noticably higher % than the last few years? What are the excuses this time? The roster doesn't fit? Smart just does'nt have the pieces to not go small and excel defensively?

We've added talent, but did it in a way that none of it can be maximized. Just about every other team in the West improved. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we'll see little defense, run & gun basketball, small lineups, not much of an improved winning %, one of Reke or MT practically quiting on Smart due to not getting enough shots/mins, and for this coming season to be even more frustrating than last as we'll see the same problems, showing we didn't learn from them last year. And there will be no excuses as we blew all our cap room and made the roster even more unbalanced, which I didn't think was possible.
 
I think that Brooks and Thomas are decent PGs in this rotation. Now we need a decent SF and then we can attack some good spot in the playoffs.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
I'm going to have a hard time explaining this. But .. we have NBA talent from first string to fourth string at a few positions like Jimmer, Hayes, and pick a few SF names. These guys can play or at least be higher bench players on other teams. For us, they are a waste of space and salary. I was expecting a packaging of some of these guys to upgrade any other position greatly. I didn't see any magic in that and there is no saying it won't happen in the future. Let's wait and see. The nails are not in the coffin yet as there is plenty of time to make further moves.

Will there be? I detect a sense from the FO of accomplishment and self satisfaction that indicates this may be it. I hope not. We need to have a few over $10 mil players and a few under $1 mil players but what we have is a bunch of middle of the roaders and a few prospects. The prospects don't bother me unless they don't pan out. It's the fact we have no one else that really bothers me. We are so frightened of overpaying, a word I have begun to hate, that we will never be good. You can't have a good team without spending money on a few select athletes. Some of these athletes are worth it in the modern NBA.

Now the only defense of what is being done is that in a few years, we will have highly paid athletes as at the least Cousins is one of the best bargains in the NBA.

I am NOT as discouraged as everyone else seem to be. Going into this summer, I wanted a big, a defensive minded SF, and a vet PG. We got all of those things although not quite in the way I wanted. Another 6 ft PG that shoots hardly gets me excited. Burying MT on the bench is a waste of talent. JJ damn well better be our starter and not just a trouble maker. TRob doesn't worry me as he has time to get used to whatever position he will play and the luxury of coming off the bench. He doesn't have the instant pressure that Tyreke and Cousins felt.

We needed to build around our stars. I think we did that or at least the FO showed that it knew what it needed to do. I don't know who was available to them so don't know whether to be critical or not. Others seem to think there was some monster available and we ignored the opportunity.

In the end, I am not excited but I sure am not disappointed. Last summer was the disaster and although most people didn't seem to recognize that at the time, I find it humerous that everyone seems to agree about the gross screwups of last summer.

The summer isn't over so let's save our scathing wrath until we see what the team looks like at the beginning of the season.
 
Brooks?!?! REALLY?!?! Why not just use MT to fill that scoring pg role? This makes no sense besides the idea of MAYBE gaining some tradable assets down the road but even then who wants Brooks or Johnson or whatever that guy's name is? There is a reason people have been calling for GP's head long ago. ####!:mad:
 
I think Petrie has gone off to the deep end...If this was two, three years ago; I'd understand. Right now, we are jam packed in the back court. This will definitely hinder player development. And I'm still not over drafting Jimmer over Leonard. We needed a SF and he was there for the sniping.
 
The good thing for Brooks is that he would be a better pick and roll partnet with Cuz than any wing player we have now because he can shoot from the perimeter unlike Reke. He has better pass mentality than MT. And more experienced than IT. All that plus his speed is something most people have overlooked here.

We may not be a shotblocking team but we should limit 2nd chance points with our rebounding potential and steals with our speedy PGs.
 
The good thing for Brooks is that he would be a better pick and roll partnet with Cuz than any wing player we have now because he can shoot from the perimeter unlike Reke. He has better pass mentality than MT. And more experienced than IT. All that plus his speed is something most people have overlooked here.

We may not be a shotblocking team but we should limit 2nd chance points with our rebounding potential and steals with our speedy PGs.
Brooks is a bad defender, and he doesn't even have the excuse of gambling for steals, because he doesn't get any. And while IT is a good defensive player, he doesn't get many steals either.

And IT was one of the best pick and roll players in the NBA last year, so Brooks will be an upgrade for the minutes IT doesn't play, but not necessarily a difference maker.
 
The good thing for Brooks is that he would be a better pick and roll partnet with Cuz than any wing player we have now because he can shoot from the perimeter unlike Reke. He has better pass mentality than MT. And more experienced than IT. All that plus his speed is something most people have overlooked here.

We may not be a shotblocking team but we should limit 2nd chance points with our rebounding potential and steals with our speedy PGs.
My memory must be failing me, because I don't ever recall Cuz being much of a pick and roll player... But everyone around here seems to remember all these PnRs with Cuz and IT. I on the other hand can't for the life of me remember Cuz running a PnR. I know he ran lots of pops where he'd take those outside jumpshots but rarely rolling to the basket after setting a screen/ getting the ball and finishing when he did.
 
I was expecting a packaging of some of these guys to upgrade any other position greatly.
You have to pretend you are the GM on the other end.... First you have to have enough roster spots to take on a few players. Second, why trade a top player at a position for several bench players (Hayes, Salmons, Garcia, Jimmer, etc...)? The only reasons are the player is hurt (example: Webber trade to Phili), the player is way overpaid and is screwing the other team cap wise (Joe Johnson trade), or the player has character issues (Webber trade from the Bullets).

Lets say you have .... Kevin Love. I call you up and say I'll give you Tyreke and John Salmons (the salaries probably match). Would you do it?

Lets say you want Rajon Rondo ... the only player I would want in exchange is ... DeMarcus. No way the Kings let him go.

Trading several players for one player is a tough one to get done. I'm not expecting much. Roll with DeMarcus and get NBA players around him. Hopefully, either Tyreke or Robinson become a top player too. If not, the Kings will be the T-Wolves.
 
The long term question is how quickly does the cap space they underutilized come off the books so they can resign their talent?

All the team's top talent is on rookie contracts, except Thornton. Evans is due after this season. The Kings have two contracts that can come off the books in Cisco and Johnson. They won't be maxing Reke, but they will be maxing Cousins. He's due the year after (I believe) and hopefully that is when Salmons comes off the books. If they keep Reke and Cousins, that's going to be a lot of capspace. Isaiah is due at the same time as Cousins. He won't demand as much money, but he'll get interest from a lot of teams since he'll be seen as an affordable, quality backup PG.

As long as Petrie hasn't gone full retard, I imagine the team is planning to have room to pay Cousins and Reke. I think it can be assumed that the Maloofs can't go into luxury tax territory to resign them. This could mean that between now and then, the team will have moderately better talent that will garner them weaker draft position and then that talent will be eschewed as quickly as possible to retain the youth. They could quickly end up in the same situation they were where they paid their own guys well (like the team was with Martin, Cisco), but their roster is not playoff quality and their cap situation is not good enough to make any jumps towards the playoffs. All the while, their draft position will offer them little in the way of greater improvements.

What this means is that talk of guys like Salmons or Thornton being traded has to figure in future salary. They probably won't trade them for any sizable contracts existing beyond next season.
 
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The long term question is how quickly does the cap space they underutilized come off the books so they can resign their talent?

All the team's top talent is on rookie contracts, except Thornton. Evans is due after this season. The Kings have two contracts that can come off the books in Cisco and Johnson. They won't be maxing Reke, but they will be maxing Cousins. He's due the year after (I believe) and hopefully that is when Salmons comes off the books. If they keep Reke and Cousins, that's going to be a lot of capspace. Isaiah is due at the same time as Cousins. He won't demand as much money, but he'll get interest from a lot of teams since he'll be seen as an affordable, quality backup PG.

As long as Petrie hasn't gone full retard, I imagine the team is planning to have room to pay Cousins and Reke. I think it can be assumed that the Maloofs can't go into luxury tax territory to resign them. This could mean that between now and then, the team will have moderately better talent that will garner them weaker draft position and then that talent will be eschewed as quickly as possible to retain the youth. They could quickly end up in the same situation they were where they paid their own guys well (like the team was with Martin, Cisco), but their roster is not playoff quality and their cap situation is not good enough to make any jumps towards the playoffs. All the while, their draft position will offer them little in the way of greater improvements.

What this means is that talk of guys like Salmons or Thornton being traded has to figure in future salary. They probably won't trade them for any sizable contracts existing beyond next season.
We must also remember that capspace isn't an issue when it comes to re-signing our own guys. It's more about the Maloofs' willingness to go over the cap than it is about having the capspace to do so.

Edit: oops you kinda said the same thing.
 
The move just doesn't make sense. It would have been much better to just sit on the cap space, and use it during the season if some opportunity came up. Cap space is valuable to help some team get under the tax, and pick some assets, or help other teams make a trade, and again pick up assets.

Nothing against Brooks, but we already had too many undersized guards. While he can legitimately play 1, between him, IT, MT and Jimmer, we shall have a midget backcourt, when we could have had a huge one with Reke and Cisco/Salmons (I personally would've preferred Cisco starting at SG instead of MT, preferring him to come off the bench).

This move not only shall force Reke at 3, it almost certainly means we won't bring back T Will. Between him and Brooks, particularly with our roster, I would have preferred T Will.