nickmcclure
Bench
now THAT would bring us all together as fans wouldn't it?
A least there is progress this year, slowly but progress
- Thread starter CruzDude
- Start date
now THAT would bring us all together as fans wouldn't it?
It is improving and therefore is not ridiculous. Since when is dumping a bad contract (Nocioni) and Hawes or anyone else for that matter, improving the team. With those moves we lost experienced role players. You seldon improve by shipping out players. It's who you replace them with, regardless of how much you pay them, that counts. We replaced them with good kids off the sandlots. They'll probably be good some day. Maybe even better than a MLE.
nickmcclure
Bench
What's ridiculous is anyone saying the Kings are improving. You're right about dumping contracts does not equal improvement (though it can put us in a position to get better players.) I meant the addition of Dalembert with a defensive presence down low that we lacked last year coupled with the ever-improving play of Cousins should have us at more than 5 wins so far. Look at our schedule so far, we've played some very very weak teams.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well congrats on the positive thinking. I'm glad I could be an inspiration. And before I continue, I agree with you on Westphal. And I agree with on Donte not playing in the 4th quarter. Its not what your saying, its how you say it. And Its not just necessarily you. I don't have a problem with being critical. I'm willing to discuss any player or coach. What I have a problem with is generalizations. And You, contrary to what you might think, and others tend to generalize at times. So you know what exactly what I mean. There are times when the team goes south and things just start to fall apart. As a result, all five guys get caught up in a generalization. But the truth is, it only takes one player to screw everything up. One player screws up and makes everyone look bad. There are people on this fourm that basketball is nothing more than a form of entertainment, and their knowledge of the game is limited to that. Some have never played the game, and some have come to the game just lately.
So all some people know is that the team went south. The rest of the info they get from sportstalk, the newspaper and from fourms like this one. So its my opinion. Let me state that again. Its my opinion, that its best to be specific when talking about the team. Instead of pointing out that the team played like crap and your furious about it. Point out why the team played the way it did and who you think was responsiblile, at least in part for the result. Someone posted in another thread that we should trade Evans. I really don't know how to respond to that without questioniing the persons intelligence.
I really didn't mean to pick on you in particular, and I didn't mean to come across as condesending. But that was payment for your being just one of three kings fans left. Sorry, you should have put a smiley face.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Wow, I'm glad your impressed. I was impressed with your knowing who Hurley and Richmond were. I had to look them up. You know how the memory goes with age.
See, smiley face!
If Tyreke could hit his jumpshots consistently on top of playing like he did last year we would easily look way way better. Fact is, aside from Beno most of the individual players from last season have seemed to regress in terms of their production. I can definitely see the team improving, and I actually have realistic hopes of winning games these days when we're up in the 4th quarter. Earlier in the season I more or less knew we'd lose by the start of the second quarter. Like "Oh we're up 6 in the 2nd? No worries, we'll blow it" and sure enough the other team would gain a double digit lead on us in no time.
It's hard to identify what the real problem is. There are so many possibilities and it's probably a combination of several of them. To name a few:
1. Tyreke being injured
2. Shots just not falling
3. Westphal's wizardly wheel of rotations, Friday nights on CBS.
4. Overall talent level of the team
5. DMC's rough start and foul trouble
6. Scrubs given so many minutes
7. The fact that we need pooh for energy
8. Pick and roll anyone?
9. guarding the pick and roll anyone?
10. The team doesn't know that contrary to popular belief, passing a basketball does not increase your chance of getting prostate cancer by 0.5% each time
There are so many issues and they all contribute to each other. Westphal has to shoulder some blame but personally I'm not too sure where you should draw the line with letting guys figure it out and changing things if they aren't working, especially on a young team. On a veteran teams, you can trust the players to solve their own issues when things aren't going well, but young inexperienced guys with no veteran leaders may need intervention from the coach. I'm not saying that the lineups should change, but perhaps the way we run our offense, or resting Tyreke and all...
On the other hand, there are several positives to be thankful for.
1. Cousins is figuring it out and shows very promising signs
2. We had a solid draft
3. We got loads of cap space
4. The play of the team is starting to look better, at least for short periods of time
The problem is a lot of these positive things are sort of rewards that we will only be able to appreciate in the future. In other words, it's all potential. And potential can only soothe the wound slightly, not heal it completely. IMO we aren't going to win many more games the rest of this season, despite guys figuring it out, and this is because our players just aren't good enough. Our starting unit may get things done, keep us in the game, possibly even get us a lead, but in the long run Darnell Jackson, Pooh Jeter, Luther Head and sometimes even better guys like Omri, Donte, Landry (hell the rest of this team) won't be able to sustain a level of play high enough to win games against remotely decent teams. Evans and Cousins are good, but Cousins still has rookie TO troubles and Evans has been sucking in crunch time.
Out of topic, but when would you consider trading Tyreke, and under what circumstances? Based on his constant injuries, improvement over the offseason and play this season I'm actually starting to consider trading him in the future. I certainly don't want to and I know this is very premature, so I'm just throwing this out in theory. In other words, how long are you going to wait for Tyreke to become the superstar we want him to be?
It's hard to identify what the real problem is. There are so many possibilities and it's probably a combination of several of them. To name a few:
1. Tyreke being injured
2. Shots just not falling
3. Westphal's wizardly wheel of rotations, Friday nights on CBS.
4. Overall talent level of the team
5. DMC's rough start and foul trouble
6. Scrubs given so many minutes
7. The fact that we need pooh for energy
8. Pick and roll anyone?
9. guarding the pick and roll anyone?
10. The team doesn't know that contrary to popular belief, passing a basketball does not increase your chance of getting prostate cancer by 0.5% each time
There are so many issues and they all contribute to each other. Westphal has to shoulder some blame but personally I'm not too sure where you should draw the line with letting guys figure it out and changing things if they aren't working, especially on a young team. On a veteran teams, you can trust the players to solve their own issues when things aren't going well, but young inexperienced guys with no veteran leaders may need intervention from the coach. I'm not saying that the lineups should change, but perhaps the way we run our offense, or resting Tyreke and all...
On the other hand, there are several positives to be thankful for.
1. Cousins is figuring it out and shows very promising signs
2. We had a solid draft
3. We got loads of cap space
4. The play of the team is starting to look better, at least for short periods of time
The problem is a lot of these positive things are sort of rewards that we will only be able to appreciate in the future. In other words, it's all potential. And potential can only soothe the wound slightly, not heal it completely. IMO we aren't going to win many more games the rest of this season, despite guys figuring it out, and this is because our players just aren't good enough. Our starting unit may get things done, keep us in the game, possibly even get us a lead, but in the long run Darnell Jackson, Pooh Jeter, Luther Head and sometimes even better guys like Omri, Donte, Landry (hell the rest of this team) won't be able to sustain a level of play high enough to win games against remotely decent teams. Evans and Cousins are good, but Cousins still has rookie TO troubles and Evans has been sucking in crunch time.
Out of topic, but when would you consider trading Tyreke, and under what circumstances? Based on his constant injuries, improvement over the offseason and play this season I'm actually starting to consider trading him in the future. I certainly don't want to and I know this is very premature, so I'm just throwing this out in theory. In other words, how long are you going to wait for Tyreke to become the superstar we want him to be?
nickmcclure
Bench
Haha yeah well I'll try to keep my head up.Wow, I'm glad your impressed. I was impressed with your knowing who Hurley and Richmond were. I had to look them up. You know how the memory goes with age.
See, smiley face!
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
If I know one thing, it's that CruzDude, bajaden, and Bricklayer know their basketball.
nickmcclure
Bench
Yeah they are pretty knowledgable but flat out wrong on the improvement front. I can't fathom what progress is happening.
nickmcclure
Bench
Yeah they are pretty knowledgable but flat out wrong on the improvement front. I can't fathom what progress is happening.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
People can have dissenting opinions from yours that aren't wrong.
theclash4u5
Starter
LOL @ OP. Seriously. I really don't know how to put it any other way. PROGRESS!!! HAHAHAHahhahaha.
You guys are great
You guys are great
nickmcclure
Bench
I know man, I'm just voicing my opinion. Lots of people tell me I'm wrong on this forum and that's fine. Also if you guys are content with this season and see progress on the whole somehow that's fine too. I just don't see it and am shocked. I think most people actually disagree with the OP.
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L
Lafayette
Guest
PROGESS, PROGESS, your talking about Progress. There Progressing like Sarah Palin learning about politics, just not happening.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yes, but fans rarely think. A significant part of the experience is feeling, and many/most people never bother to put that aside and look beyond. I've watched basketball for far too many years to let a little thing that a bad start over 25 games throw me into a panic.
nickmcclure
Bench
Saying that we as fans rarely think is quite the blanket statement. Our bad play BTW has continued since early/middle of the last season. You can talk about how we should just calm down all you want but the facts don't change. Under Westphal we consistently lose games in the 4th. How many more losses do we need to suffer through before you'll consider the fact we need to make some trades and fire our coach? What do we have to look forward to? Another unproven youngin? Cap-space we don't put to use?
theclash4u5
Starter
You do realize that this is the worst start in Kings franchise history, right? So this isn't just a "bad start over 25 games". It's the worst start of all time.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Its certainly among them, but this francise has approached this level of incompetence on a number of occasions in the past. Two years ago to be sure. 1990. And unlike those old teams, which were actualy worse than this one talentwise, these guys don't have a packed house at Arco willing them to wins they otherwise would not have gotten. Its a miserable start, but I've seen worse, and certainly ones with much less hope for the future. Adn as someone who does have perspective, these sorts of things are hardly deaht knells -- Boston went through something similar the year before they got their Big Three. Ditto Miami last year. OKC started like this two years ago, fired the coach, and are now a young contender. Chicago melted down like this last year, against us, righted themselves as Rose got healthy, and made the playoffs in a weak East. Cleveland went through a year like this and got LeBron. San Antoniio did the same and got Duncan. Orlando did the same and got Dwight. This is miserable, but after you've watched long enough and seen the way things work you know its just temporary, its not the end of the world.
theclash4u5
Starter
It will be temporary, if we pull a OKC and fire the coach, so I agree with you there.
I hope no thinks that this game proves we've made no progress recently. This game was a clear improvement over our last loss. Nothing that happened tonight changes what the Kings are doing. When is the last time we were tied or better at the end of 48? Despite what a poster said above I'm really disappointed in the Kings and the results tonight. With all the various contributions to this loss late in the game, I personally am most disappointed in Tyreke. He just doesn't get it, that is, understand the game of basketball and how he can contribute. He is a late game mistake happening in the flesh.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Tonight they played well and sometimes good through 3-1/2 quarters, again. Then the last 2 min and overtime were just plain embarrassing. 9 TO's in the fourth alone. They looked like a high school team and not a very good one at that. Coaching is, IMHO the root of the team problems. Also I think Tyreke is the root player cause of 4th quarter melt downs. He can't jump, has missed 80% of layups, and he casually ambles up court dribbling. His foot is really bothering him. Beno and Jeter for starting guards. Period.
nickmcclure
Bench
Every team you mentioned traded for top 20 players in the league and all but 1 have already fired their coach. That's EXACTLY what all us pissed off posters are yelling for. You have just proven our point.
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theclash4u5
Starter
LOL! Thanks, I needed a laugh.
nickmcclure
Bench
Another positive!
theclash4u5
Starter
theclash4u5
Starter
More like, watch us get the #1 pick, then the league goes into a lockout and the draft falls apart 
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