[Game] 51/82: Kings @ Portland Trail Blazers 06 FEB 2025, 7pm PT/10pm ET

[pdxKingsFan]

We really need to know if Monte or even Vivek is passing this down or if the coaches really are settled on these rotations.

Doug's job is not guaranteed. And obviously Brown already got fired for losing.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

We really need to know if Monte or even Vivek is passing this down or if the coaches really are settled on these rotations.

Doug's job is not guaranteed. And obviously Brown already got fired for losing.

If nothing else, I think we can pretty much assume that the owner didn't agree on adding DeRozan and LaVine, to bring either one off the bench this season

 

[sactowndog]

Right - we don't have a balanced roster based on the team Brown built. Since then, ignoring Fox/Zach for a moment, we brought in LaRavia and Jonas so at least we're getting a legit big man to backup Domas and a big wing, even if they don't have name value.

I feel like LaRavia might be the sort of guy Brown would ignore. We'll see what happens, but at least something is being done to address it. It is going to take a big offseason.

How was it the team “Brown” built???

Brown doesn’t run the draft
Brown isn’t a decision maker on trades

Doug is playing the starters the same kind of minutes is that Browns fault too

One of the ridiculous things about Kings fan is when they are associated with the org they can do no wrong but once they leave everything is their fault. Maybe it’s human nature but it sure seems excessive here some times.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Brown doesn’t run the draft
Brown isn’t a decision maker on trades

Sooooooo, you don't think Brown had any input at all on who we drafted, or who we targeted in trades???
Gotcha.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

How was it the team “Brown” built???

Brown doesn’t run the draft
Brown isn’t a decision maker on trades

Doug is playing the starters the same kind of minutes is that Browns fault too

One of the ridiculous things about Kings fan is when they are associated with the org they can do no wrong but once they leave everything is their fault. Maybe it’s human nature but it sure seems excessive here some times.

Brown wouldn't play big players. I am just going to operate under the assumption Monte started bringing in certain archetypes that he would play.

Why would any organization have the GM making moves without the consult of the coach unless they just want to fail? Is that not the lesson we all learned with Marvin Bagley which lead to the coach calling out the FO in the media?

 

[sactowndog]

Sooooooo, you don't think Brown had any input at all on who we drafted, or who we targeted in trades???
Gotcha.

Input sure. But he was not the decision maker. Nor was it in his job description.

 

[sactowndog]

Brown wouldn't play big players. I am just going to operate under the assumption Monte started bringing in certain archetypes that he would play.

Why would any organization have the GM making moves without the consult of the coach unless they just want to fail? Is that not the lesson we all learned with Marvin Bagley which lead to the coach calling out the FO in the media?

Like whom? Which quality big player did Mike not play? I can maybe give you Nemi but let’s not assume we had a string of quality front line guys sitting on the bench.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Like whom? Which quality big player did Mike not play? I can maybe give you Nemi but let’s not assume we had a string of quality front line guys sitting on the bench.

Well he totally mishandled Sasha. And he just really didn't seem to like playing any of the PF options we had the first year which is why most of them were sent out.

Were any of them "quality"? I don't know but from my vantage point Brown liked to play small ball. And so we built a small ball team.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Well he totally mishandled Sasha.

I wonder how different (and effective) Sasha would've looked playing for a coach who actually knew how to work with him.
Mike totally dropped the ball when it came to him (Sasha).

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I also seem to remember Mike Brown had a very lengthy list of demands to agree to coach here, one of which was a bigger assistant staff than the org had run under previous coaches and I imagine he wanted more player input than other coaches got as well.

 

[sactowndog]

Well he totally mishandled Sasha. And he just really didn't seem to like playing any of the PF options we had the first year which is why most of them were sent out.

Were any of them "quality"? I don't know but from my vantage point Brown liked to play small ball. And so we built a small ball team.

Here are the guys on our 22-23 Roster
Metu- deep bench Detroit
KZ Opala - out of league
Kessler Edwards - deep bench Dallas
Chima Okeke - out of league.

If the issue was Brown wasn’t playing them you would expect someone else was. The only person you can say that about is Nemi.

Sasha couldn’t defend in the NBA.

 

[sactowndog]

I also seem to remember Mike Brown had a very lengthy list of demands to agree to coach here, one of which was a bigger assistant staff than the org had run under previous coaches and I imagine he wanted more player input than other coaches got as well.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree on this. If you said Vivek got involved I would likely agree but I don’t think Mike had any more say than any other person bitching to their boss

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Sasha didn't get a fair chance.

Edwards and Metu could have at least helped us situationally.
Aren't you the one upset about some of the bench guys that went to Dallas in our picks?

My only point is a GM operates at the behest of the coach to get the players the coach wants on the roster. There was once a trend to have elite coaches be GMs but the work was too much for most of them to be effective at the acquisition side of things so we went back to the GM/Coach model but find more synergy. I don't know where the Kings are in that universe. Clearly they got burned a lot by having poor GM/Coach relationships going back to Vivek's arrival and hiring Malone before picking a GM only to have that gerbil faced bastard out for Malone's throat the moment he arrived. Then we got burned with the Luke-Vlade-Joerger love triangle and the Brandon Williams-Joerger feud, only to get stuck with Walton who sucked. Monte/Wes and Brown were really the first shot at a remotely synergistic combination and it worked for a while only to have the Fox drama destroy everything. Interestingly now that Fox and Brown are gone the first thing he does is add some size and length. I will operate in the world where the coach had more input than less, and it just didn't work.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think you are barking up the wrong tree on this. If you said Vivek got involved I would likely agree but I don’t think Mike had any more say than any other person bitching to their boss

Vivek has largely sat in the background during the whole Monte/Wes era. He probably had some input into the coach hire and fire but I am pretty sure he has stepped back to let the basketball people do the basketball things. Dude wants a winner in Sacramento and doesn't deserve the hatred he gets.

 

[whozit]

I think you are barking up the wrong tree on this. If you said Vivek got involved I would likely agree but I don’t think Mike had any more say than any other person bitching to their boss

The person who has the ear of the boss often has at the very least indirect influence on decisions made. I would suggest Brown had the ear of Monte at least to a certain point.

 

[hrdboild]

I also seem to remember Mike Brown had a very lengthy list of demands to agree to coach here, one of which was a bigger assistant staff than the org had run under previous coaches and I imagine he wanted more player input than other coaches got as well.

He was coming over from a very successful tenure with a GS organization which has almost as many assistant coaches as players.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

He was coming over from a very successful tenure with a GS organization which has almost as many assistant coaches as players.

It made sense, I was using it to suggest that Brown had a lot more organizational control than previous coaches had.

 

[PacMan]

Well he totally mishandled Sasha. And he just really didn't seem to like playing any of the PF options we had the first year which is why most of them were sent out.

Were any of them "quality"? I don't know but from my vantage point Brown liked to play small ball. And so we built a small ball team.

Not to mention bringing in Javale, KZ Okpala, Juan Toscano Anderson, Chima. Those are totally all dudes that play for him before

 

[sactowndog]

Vivek has largely sat in the background during the whole Monte/Wes era. He probably had some input into the coach hire and fire but I am pretty sure he has stepped back to let the basketball people do the basketball things. Dude wants a winner in Sacramento and doesn't deserve the hatred he gets.

I know he was a factor in the Barnes trade that didn’t happen so I don’t buy he has stepped completely back

 

[sactowndog]

The person who has the ear of the boss often has at the very least indirect influence on decisions made. I would suggest Brown had the ear of Monte at least to a certain point.

Sure. I never said he had zero influence.

 

[SacTownKid]

One game under .500, three of four before the break against the worst team in the west, then a chance to hammer everything out in practice? I'm not punting yet. Heck, it's not even fourth down yet.

I didn't say a punt, I'm saying a BIT of a punt. This is a gamble if the main goal was just this season. I would hope that isn't the case at all.

 

[SacTownKid]

They won't punt in terms of "tanking", because the owner, front office, Christie, and the core players desperately want/need the playoffs.

Dealing with the idea that the odds are not in their favor after the dead-line,....yeah, that's where I am today.

Want and going to happen are two different things. Of course they won't tank, although that pick is on the line here lol, but they clearly had to have understood basically restructuring this much of your roster is going to take an easing in period and the West right now might not exactly allow teams that kind of comfort if they're trying to make the playoffs or even the play in. The hope is that they get it together sooner than later, and I think in game 2 we've already seen the potential in that.

 

[The_Jamal]

I didn't say a punt, I'm saying a BIT of a punt. This is a gamble if the main goal was just this season. I would hope that isn't the case at all.

I don't think it's a "just this season" You have next season and then following year if you want to buy-out DDR and not pay Jval, you can. LaVine is on a 48 mil expiring. But essentially, the Kings have total team control for 2 more seasons over:

LaVine
Domas
DDR
Monk
Jval
Keegan
Carter
Keon

And then after that, you have Domas for 1 more season, Monk on a player option and whatever Keegan/Keon extensions end up being. So to me, this is a 2 year push with this core and then you have the ability for a soft-out after next year and then a hard-out in 2 more seasons.

Jval to me is kind of the indicator we aren't looking to sell off this team. You wouldn't essentially add long-term money, if the plan was to blow this thing up in the off-season.

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't think it's a "just this season" You have next season and then following year if you want to buy-out DDR and not pay Jval, you can. LaVine is on a 48 mil expiring. But essentially, the Kings have total team control for 2 more seasons over:

LaVine
Domas
DDR
Monk
Jval
Keegan
Carter
Keon

And then after that, you have Domas for 1 more season, Monk on a player option and whatever Keegan/Keon extensions end up being. So to me, this is a 2 year push with this core and then you have the ability for a soft-out after next year and then a hard-out in 2 more seasons.

Jval to me is kind of the indicator we aren't looking to sell off this team. You wouldn't essentially add long-term money, if the plan was to blow this thing up in the off-season.

I would certainly hope not and I agree, but the doom and gloomers are acting like this move was made only to get into the freaking play in THIS season and if they don't it's all over. LOL Really? If so, yeah, the Kings are doomed. I don't believe it though. These weren't short sighted moves from Monte. For the first time in a long time there actually seems like a balanced plan of attack moving forward.

 

[The_Jamal]

I would certainly hope not and I agree, but the doom and gloomers are acting like this move was made only to get into the freaking play in THIS season and if they don't it's all over. LOL Really? If so, yeah, the Kings are doomed. I don't believe it though. These weren't short sighted moves from Monte. For the first time in a long time there actually seems like a balanced plan of attack moving forward.

And if you can keep LaRavia, he's a legit option to be your starting wing in the future, post-DDR. You and I have talked about Carter this way, but LaRavia is the exact kind of player you want and need in the playoffs to be successful. Im extremely excited about him and what he can bring. He's going to show REAL quick that he's just not another Jeffries, Louis King, etc.

 

[iowamcnabb]

And if you can keep LaRavia, he's a legit option to be your starting wing in the future, post-DDR. You and I have talked about Carter this way, but LaRavia is the exact kind of player you want and need in the playoffs to be successful. Im extremely excited about him and what he can bring. He's going to show REAL quick that he's just not another Jeffries, Louis King, etc.

It’s crazy to me that Jeffries is only 27 and still plays in the NBA. It feels like he played for us 10 years ago

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Want and going to happen are two different things. Of course they won't tank, although that pick is on the line here lol, but they clearly had to have understood basically restructuring this much of your roster is going to take an easing in period and the West right now might not exactly allow teams that kind of comfort if they're trying to make the playoffs or even the play in. The hope is that they get it together sooner than later, and I think in game 2 we've already seen the potential in that.

I'm not understanding the "bit of a punt on the rest of this season" analogy ?

To me this group is much more likely to "go for it on 4th and long", than they are to "punt" of any sort

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I didn't say a punt, I'm saying a BIT of a punt. This is a gamble if the main goal was just this season. I would hope that isn't the case at all.

Well, we've basically got our entire starting lineup under control for three playoff runs. Yes, LaVine has a player option in year three, but it's so big he probably doesn't walk, and Murray will be an RFA in year three, but still. On top of that, we'll still have Carter (if he pans out) and Ellis (if we make him an RFA this year) and JV, so there's some serious longevity potential on the core.

Now, I don't expect all 8 of those guys to be here three years down the road - the NBA doesn't ever work like that - but this is a core that Monte can develop around. If you mean to say that due to the shake-up it's kind of a punt this year with an eye to two years of stability and hopefully contention down the road, sure. But I still think we can make at least a bit of noise this year. Not championship noise, I ain't that naïve, but I'm not ready to count us out of a push into the top 6.

Edit: I see that Jamal said basically the same thing in different words. Shock.

 

[serbiangoat]

I wonder how different (and effective) Sasha would've looked playing for a coach who actually knew how to work with him.
Mike totally dropped the ball when it came to him (Sasha).

Sasha/Micic/Teodosic/Navarro all on paper are NBA player and probably more talented than a lot of NBA guys who could not dominate In Europe like they can but in the actually NBA they are trash players who need to be highly involved (losing formula) and can't defend. Sasha was a less athletic Luke Babbit whose game would never translate to anything more than a spot up shooter which you can't be anymore without something else. Dante Exum was better than all these guys when healthy in the NBA and was a super average Euroleague player being the 4th or 5th best player on his own squad (slightly above average team)while those guys were MVPs.