2009-10 Kings draft position thread

[bajaden]

That's good news. From what I've read and heard, it sounded like there were two players at the top (Walls & Favors), then maybe Alabi, and the rest a bunch of ho-hums. It would be nice if Petrie could get another pick somewhere in the teens.

To try to be on the optimistic side, I've thought that if we don't get one of the top two picks, then Alabi could be a nice consolation prize. He is a project, but he's a project with offensive and defensive potential, unlike Thabeet was last year. If Brick gets on his bandwagon, I might actually support him this year.

I'm really interested in seeing Alabi play. He suffers from the same situation that Thabeet did. He came to the game late. But his progress has been at a faster rate than Thabeet. He has that same instinct for blocking shots, but is a more aggressive rebounder. And, although he's very raw offensively, he's way ahead of where Thabeet was at the same time. I doubt that he'll ever be a great offensive player, but he has all the makings of a great defensive player that won't hurt you on the offensive side.

Anyway, I don't want to anoint him as the next coming of Mutombo. He has a lot to learn. But so far, he's someone to keep your eye on.

I was thinking earlier that there is an irony to what we do. And unless your guaranteed the first pick in the draft, your almost setting yourself up for disappointment. For instance, you see a player that hasn't been getting that much notice or press. And its early on in the season. As the season progresses he plays better and better and affirms all your beliefs about him. But at the same time, he starts to move up the draft boards until he's in the top four. Your excited that you feel validated in your ability to pick out talent, but at the same time, your disappointed because he was as good as you thought, and now is probably out of reach. Such is life..

 

[Chupacabra]

Please land John Wall. He is a franchise player. I dont think landing Wall means that Martin or Evans must be traded. Very one dimensional thinking.

 

[Bricklayer]

Please land John Wall. He is a franchise player. I dont think landing Wall means that Martin or Evans must be traded. Very one dimensional thinking.

No, just realistic. None of them are big enough to play the 3, and none of them could possibly accept coming off the bench, in particular behind the other two who would figure to chew up enormous minutes.

But really if by some miracle that happens, that's fine. Its not a even a consideration if Wall is what Wall is supposed to be (i.e. potential superstar). You take him, and worst case Kevin becomes a very tasty trade nugget to bring back something else you need at SF or up front. Throw in a potential big $$ free agent and you can have your lineup pretty much set going forward. Meanwhile you end up with a hyper-talented backcourt pair that you get for rookie contracts.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I think its a little early to start handing the #1 pick over to Wall. Ive seen the Youtube clips, he looks explosive and dominant, but I feel like a defensive big is still the number 1 need for this team. That could be Solomon Alabi or someone else, but we need to address that soon.

Thats not saying I would choose a big man over wall if he is the best player in the draft, but If its a toss up between Wall and a real big who can defend, I think i'd take the big.

A whole lot depends on this year too. If Hawes figures it out, then we can give the Thompson/Hawes combo another year. If Hawes fails, then we may need to look at a big man. At the same time, if Evans cant play point, then we go with Wall ..

And if where really lucky, and both Hawes and Evans do there job, we could try and lock up that future SF if a franchise type player emerges. I like Aminu's potential ..

 

[Kingster]

I was thinking earlier that there is an irony to what we do. And unless your guaranteed the first pick in the draft, your almost setting yourself up for disappointment. For instance, you see a player that hasn't been getting that much notice or press. And its early on in the season. As the season progresses he plays better and better and affirms all your beliefs about him. But at the same time, he starts to move up the draft boards until he's in the top four. Your excited that you feel validated in your ability to pick out talent, but at the same time, your disappointed because he was as good as you thought, and now is probably out of reach. Such is life..

There is a phrase that I often use about such things: If you're thinking it, then there's probably a lot of other people thinking it too. Right now, there are some GMs of these lousy teams who are thinking that Alabi would be a nice consolation prize if they can't get the top two picks...

 

[Vlade4GM]

I wouldn't start declaring Alabi as a top consolation prize just yet. He's still got Aldrich, Motiejunas, Monroe, Henson (potentially), and Davis to contend with.

 

[Vlade4GM]

IF Wall has a good year and proves to be the real deal and we got the no.1 pcik then I'd almost be more inclined to move Evans because I think that backcourt would be way too redundant.

 

[AyeCarly]

Isn't there an NBA rule that says the Kings can pick no higher than #4 in the draft?

Only when there is a franchise player in the draft. In '89 we got Pervis w/ the 1st pick and the best player of that draft ended up being Shawn Kemp picked 17th. And 2nd best Tim Hardaway picked 14th. Glen Rice, Sean Elliott, J.R. Reid and Vlade the best of the rest. Not a lot of talent that year let alone a franchise player.

 

[fnordius]

You're making the incorrect inference that not being a pure point guard means he will make a good SG. He was mediocre at the SG in college. At the point he was fantastic.

His game, and numbers, were pretty much exactly the same regardless of nominal position:
http://stats.nj.com/cbk/players.asp?id=81867

 

[beb0p]

His game, and numbers, were pretty much exactly the same regardless of nominal position:
http://stats.nj.com/cbk/players.asp?id=81867

I don't doubt that number-wise. But having watched Evans at the 2, I think Kingster has a valid point. Evans was not a very good SG in college.

 

[Vlade4GM]

That has more to do with being on-ball vs. off-ball, not facilitating vs. scoring. Evans is going to play the same game no matter what superficial title you put on him, he's effective with the ball in his hands. Without it? Not so much. Evans and Wall won't work well together IMO, I can't think of one backcourt that's similar that ever did.

 

[hammystyle]

That has more to do with being on-ball vs. off-ball, not facilitating vs. scoring. Evans is going to play the same game no matter what superficial title you put on him, he's effective with the ball in his hands. Without it? Not so much. Evans and Wall won't work well together IMO, I can't think of one backcourt that's similar that ever did.

Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe?

 

[fnordius]

That has more to do with being on-ball vs. off-ball, not facilitating vs. scoring. Evans is going to play the same game no matter what superficial title you put on him, he's effective with the ball in his hands. Without it? Not so much. Evans and Wall won't work well together IMO, I can't think of one backcourt that's similar that ever did.

Thomas/Dumars, back before Dumars started shooting 3s?

But it's hard to think of a great comparison, whether it succeeded or failed. Evans is an unusual sort of player, and Wall's looking to be, too. I'm not sure that great parallels exist for that combination.

Evans would benefit from learning to be more useful without the ball. He couldn't do that very well in college, because most of his teammates were really pretty bad, and none of them could run an offense or make assists... the ONLY alternative was to let Antonio Anderson run the team, but he was a SG too, and not even NBA material. If he had a decent PG to work with, and reasonable coaching, I bet he could learn it easily enough.

 

[hammystyle]

But it's hard to think of a great comparison, whether it succeeded or failed. Evans is an unusual sort of player, and Wall's looking to be, too. I'm not sure that great parallels exist for that combination.

Exactly for Evans. He's unique....there aren't a lot of comparisons to someone built like Jerry Stackhouse who can handle the ball and pass. Or a bigger, much less explosive Dwayne Wade. Wall sounds a lot like D-Rose. I'm sure if Wade and Rose end up together they'll be just fine, just like Evans and Wall would be just fine.

 

[bajaden]

That has more to do with being on-ball vs. off-ball, not facilitating vs. scoring. Evans is going to play the same game no matter what superficial title you put on him, he's effective with the ball in his hands. Without it? Not so much. Evans and Wall won't work well together IMO, I can't think of one backcourt that's similar that ever did.

Walt Frazier and Pearl Monroe. A lot of people didn't think they could play together because they both needed the ball to be effective. But they worked it out to being one of the best backcourts in the history of the league.

 

[bajaden]

Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe?

Damm! I just posted the same thing. That'll teach me to read all the posts first...

 

[Vlade4GM]

Thomas/Dumars, back before Dumars started shooting 3s?

But it's hard to think of a great comparison, whether it succeeded or failed. Evans is an unusual sort of player, and Wall's looking to be, too. I'm not sure that great parallels exist for that combination.

Evans would benefit from learning to be more useful without the ball. He couldn't do that very well in college, because most of his teammates were really pretty bad, and none of them could run an offense or make assists... the ONLY alternative was to let Antonio Anderson run the team, but he was a SG too, and not even NBA material. If he had a decent PG to work with, and reasonable coaching, I bet he could learn it easily enough.

He might get better, but I wouldn't call it easy and a lot of players never learn to do it no matter who their teammates are. With Evans' mechanics, becoming a good spot up shooter may never happen no matter how hard he practices because of his slow and awkward release. If you pair up Wall and Evans, one or the other is going to lose a lot of value.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Walt Frazier and Pearl Monroe. A lot of people didn't think they could play together because they both needed the ball to be effective. But they worked it out to being one of the best backcourts in the history of the league.

Okay, there's one example. Any more?

 

[bajaden]

Okay, there's one example. Any more?

Heh heh heh. Sorry, it just struck me as funny. I immediatley thought that if I came up with another one, your reply would be: Ok, thats two, anymore...?

No, I don't have anymore right off the top of my head. If your point is that its rare. Point taken. But its also possible.. Another similar pairing just occurred to me, Bob Cousy and Bill Sharman. They were both similar players although Cousy possessed much better passing skills.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Haha, I probably would have.

Yes, my point is that it's rare and so far there are only examples mostly from a long time ago. I just really don't see how the two will ever fit well together, and if we did end up with the first pick and Wall was the concensus, I'd either trade down or take him and move Evans to address another weakness. You want Martin with an on-ball distributor.

 

[bajaden]

Haha, I probably would have.

Yes, my point is that it's rare and so far there are only examples mostly from a long time ago. I just really don't see how the two will ever fit well together, and if we did end up with the first pick and Wall was the concensus, I'd either trade down or take him and move Evans to address another weakness. You want Martin with an on-ball distributor.

Well first off, I think the reason most examples are from the more distant past is that postions weren't as defined then as they are now. But thats another story for another day. If Wall is the consensus pick, and, were lucky enough to have the choice, I would take him and try to make it work before having a kneejerk reaction. Its also possible that by that time Evans will have defined himself as the best player on the team. If so, I don't think we would want to trade the best player on the team, nor would we want to pass up the consensus, best player in the draft.

It would be a nice problem to have, but somehow I don't think the indian burial ground is going to allow it..

 

[Vlade4GM]

Well first off, I think the reason most examples are from the more distant past is that postions weren't as defined then as they are now. But thats another story for another day. If Wall is the consensus pick, and, were lucky enough to have the choice, I would take him and try to make it work before having a kneejerk reaction. Its also possible that by that time Evans will have defined himself as the best player on the team. If so, I don't think we would want to trade the best player on the team, nor would we want to pass up the consensus, best player in the draft.

It would be a nice problem to have, but somehow I don't think the indian burial ground is going to allow it..

I agree in principle about knee jerk reactions, but draft time is the best time to make trades, a lot of young talent is flying around.

 

[Kingster]

I wouldn't start declaring Alabi as a top consolation prize just yet. He's still got Aldrich, Motiejunas, Monroe, Henson (potentially), and Davis to contend with.

I'd take Alabi today (and last year if available) over Aldrich and Monroe. The other guys I haven't seen.

 

[bajaden]

I'd take Alabi today (and last year if available) over Aldrich and Monroe. The other guys I haven't seen.

I wouldn't count out Aldrich just yet. He has skills and appears to like mixing it up under the basket. Monroe right now is a very good passing SF in a PF/C's body. Unless he reverses that, then I agree with you. He is talented but right now we need toughness..

 

[hammystyle]

I'd take Alabi today (and last year if available) over Aldrich and Monroe. The other guys I haven't seen.

I saw Alabi once against UNC. He definitely stood out for his size, coordination and athleticism. Lot of upside.

But Aldrich is interesting to me. There's no way on paper you can compare Alabi and Aldrich and decide Alabi is better. They're equal shot-blockers, and Aldrich is immensely better as a rebounder and scorer. When I watched him last year I was really impressed with his hands, shooting stroke and his athleticism. He's pretty mobile and can really get off the floor.

I just think Aldrich might be really underrated as a very talented true center. I wonder if his upside might be a little underrated because he's white??? (Dodges PC bullets)

 

[bajaden]

I saw Alabi once against UNC. He definitely stood out for his size, coordination and athleticism. Lot of upside.

But Aldrich is interesting to me. There's no way on paper you can compare Alabi and Aldrich and decide Alabi is better. They're equal shot-blockers, and Aldrich is immensely better as a rebounder and scorer. When I watched him last year I was really impressed with his hands, shooting stroke and his athleticism. He's pretty mobile and can really get off the floor.

I just think Aldrich might be really underrated as a very talented true center. I wonder if his upside might be a little underrated because he's white??? (Dodges PC bullets)

I think your last statement has some truth to it. Its the old white men can't jump syndrome. However in Aldrich's case he's pretty athletic and your right he has good hands. I don't think there's any doubt that he's a center..

 

[Vlade4GM]

I'd take Alabi today (and last year if available) over Aldrich and Monroe. The other guys I haven't seen.

Well, I wouldn't be comfortable saying that right now, but I wouldn't be that surprised if I'm saying that by the end of the year.

 

[Kingster]

Okay, there's one example. Any more?

How about Gail Goodrich and Jerry West. Neither was a "true" point guard. Both were primarily scorers.

 

[Kingster]

I wouldn't count out Aldrich just yet. He has skills and appears to like mixing it up under the basket. Monroe right now is a very good passing SF in a PF/C's body. Unless he reverses that, then I agree with you. He is talented but right now we need toughness..

Neither has the defensive gravitas that I'm looking for.

 

[Kingster]

I saw Alabi once against UNC. He definitely stood out for his size, coordination and athleticism. Lot of upside.

But Aldrich is interesting to me. There's no way on paper you can compare Alabi and Aldrich and decide Alabi is better. They're equal shot-blockers, and Aldrich is immensely better as a rebounder and scorer. When I watched him last year I was really impressed with his hands, shooting stroke and his athleticism. He's pretty mobile and can really get off the floor.

I just think Aldrich might be really underrated as a very talented true center. I wonder if his upside might be a little underrated because he's white??? (Dodges PC bullets)

I've seen both a couple of times and Aldrich just seems like a defensive whimp, and it has nothing to do with his skin color. He doesn't have the length to make an impact in the paint. He would be worse than Hawes. Alabi has much greater defensive potential than Aldrich, and Alabi's coordination is good enough so that I could see him eventually being at least average on the offensive end.