Evans for Vasquez

[sdballer]

Hometown fans arguing so voraciously for a player that has not improved much since his rookie year, does not make teammates better, and has not helped his team win many games is not a hometown bias? How is it anything but that? I know I know it's the coaches fault (all 4 of them!). Or maybe it's the role-players fault, I've seen them blamed a lot in this thread.

Ironic that a guy who is being labeled a "star" is also said to be held-down by his role-players. Sorry that's not how it works, stars players sometimes get held down by other stars or pseudo-stars (case in point Steph Curry and Monta Ellis or James Harden leaving Durant/Westbrook) but star players don't get held down by role-players. Star players don't not become stars because of role-players especially star-players whose offensive game is entirely independent of those role-players anyway. Maybe their teams win a few less games and they don't make it out of the first round in the playoffs but make no mistake, a star player is a star player and everybody knows it early on. Star players don't get held down and elite stars help build everybody else up.

You can trash the Denver blue-print as being "middle of the road" but last time I checked they were in the playoffs the last four years......something this team is only dreaming of right now.

Star players do get held down by role players when their front office surrounds them with mini chuckers and their head coach takes them off the ball and rarely calls plays for them. I've asked this before but what was Reke supposed to do, steal the ball from his teammates?

I don't think Reke is a superstar but I think he had star potential and deserved a chance to see how he could do with a competent coach. If it didn't work he still had more value on an open market than being forced to trade with one team.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

maybe we can get Wiggins now!

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

if that's the case, it would happen even if reke is still here, so i don't see the point. Actually, dmc and mclemore have better chance to be good with a true pg who knows how to pass the ball.

*thread winner, chicken dinner*

 

[NewArena]

*shakes his head*

Do you know what 40 wins does for this team next year?

It means that we aren't good enough to make the play-offs and we most probably lose our draft pick in one of the best drafts in a long, long time.

The only thing that can potentially salvage this situation is if DA is able to secure an impact player with the cap space saved in this deal.
And...we have to make the play-offs next season. If we just barely lose out...and lose our draft pick, then it will have been a failure of a season.

Not necessarily

We need to start winning at some point, and establish that culture/mentality. NO draft is a sure thing. We can't keep putting wins on hold, just for a "chance to draft" something worthwhile. Enough

 

[Fear the Putin]

also, this whole trying to relate PDA to Denver's perma-purgatory status of playoffs gate keepers is absolutely ridiculous. They had Melo and traded him for a load of role players. That's the best that they could have done. You can't compare their situation and what they could/couldn't accomplish to what PDA's future and vision is going to look like a bunch of Nostradamus'.

What Denver didn't have was Cousins. The argument ends right there and then. PDA isn't trying to accomplish Denver 2.0, so let's stop it at that.

 

[Bricklayer]

Tyreke 15pts 3.5ast 4.4 reb 11 mil a year #2 man on the team

Vasquez 14pts 9ast 4reb 2 mil a year #4 man on the team


thats what it boils down to as a GM do you want to give an extra 9 mil for that difference. lets say he averges his best 20/5/5 is +6pts -4ast +1reb worth 9 more mil for #2 option when -6pt +4ast -1reb as #4 option when you need a facilitator for mac and cuz?

Uh..yes.

And again. people don't undertand the league if they don't understand stars trump Grevis Vasquez's. The quarterback of his very own 27 win team BTW that finished 25th in the NBA in ppg. If Reke blows up, this is a disaster pending another star with that extra money. There is no way around it. If Reke doesn't blow up it still might be a mistake, but doesn't have to be.

 

[sdballer]

Uh..yes.

And again. people don't undertand the league if they don't understand stars trump Grevis Vasquez's. The quarterback of his very own 27 win team BTW that finished 25th in the NBA in ppg. If Reke blows up, this is a disaster pending another star with that extra money. There is no way around it. If Reke doesn't blow up it still might be a mistake, but doesn't have to be.

Especially when as a fanbase we seem to once again be ignoring defense. Even the biggest NO fans of Vasquez acknowledge his very poor d. We went from a potentially dominant backcourt d to a very suspect one .

 

[The_Jamal]

*shakes his head*

Do you know what 40 wins does for this team next year?

It means that we aren't good enough to make the play-offs and we most probably lose our draft pick in one of the best drafts in a long, long time.

The only thing that can potentially salvage this situation is if DA is able to secure an impact player with the cap space saved in this deal.
And...we have to make the play-offs next season. If we just barely lose out...and lose our draft pick, then it will have been a failure of a season.

Edit: I might add that if we retained Tyreke and signed AI...and won 40 games with DMC being an all-star and B-Mac being ROY...and we still only won 40 games, missed the players and lost our draft pick...it still would have been a failure for the season. However, a team with Tyreke/Iggy/B-Mac/Cousins/new coach would win more than 40 games and would make the play-offs barring some catastrophic event.
I don't have faith that a Vasquez/B-Mac/Cousins trio can make the play-offs...unless of course we get another major impact player via the cap space.

You wouldn't consider a 12-game win improvement a successful season? Yikes. High-standards. Not everyone can go the OKC route and increase their wins by 20+ in one season.

 

[ESP47]

I wouldn't worry about it guys. We'll have a bunch of money to spend and obviously this FO is not done with the way they've aggressively been making themselves known this summer.

The fact of the matter is that this team has sucked with it's current core of players for the last few years. It's been a combination of bad owners, bad GM work, god awful coaching and players that just aren't as good as we'd like to believe they are.

Sometimes you have to let go of a current star (ala Richmond/JWill) to build for the future. Sometimes it doesn't work out (Webber/Bibby).

If this whole Tyreke thing doesn't work out, then they made a mistake. Oh well, they are obviously committed to winning and will still put a good product on the floor sooner or later.

 

[bajaden]

This move is bad. Really bad. Worse the than the trade that got us Salmons. I'd at least think we could get Aminu or someone else back in this. But Tyreke for Vazquez straight up? Almost nonsensical. Tyreke's a much better player. The only thing Vazquez does is pass the ball. He is a poor player offensively and a worse player on defense.

Well since we were one of the worse passing teams in the league last season, maybe having someone on the team that actually passes the ball isn't such a bad thing. Everyone complained that IT shot the ball too much, not your complaining that Vasquez passes the ball too much. D'Allesandro stated that he wanted more ball movement. Well one way to accomplish that is to get players that want to pass the ball. Your acting like this move is the end of the world. My god, have you all just lost your minds? Tyreke Evans wasn't Michael Jordan. Not evern close! He was a good player, and one of my favorites on the team, but the team will go on, and maybe, just maybe, the new management has other things in the works.

They said they were going to change the culture of this team. Did you think they were going to do that by hanging a poster on the wall with proper instructions on how to conduct yourself. No! They're going to change players along with with everything else. I'll tell you, I'm starting to hunger for the do nothing days of Petrie. At least I didn't have to listen to a bunch overreacting crazy people. Its july 4th for gods sake. And I might point out, regardless of what anyone has had to endure over the last 5 or 6 years, this ownership group had nothing to do with it, and they deserve a clean slate. Just because your impatient, don't expect them to build a playoff team overnight. Its going to take some time.

 

[jaysoonii]

What if Vasquez blows up?

 

[jcwkings]

Star players do get held down by role players when their front office surrounds them with mini chuckers and their head coach takes them off the ball and rarely calls plays for them. I've asked this before but what was Reke supposed to do, steal the ball from his teammates?

I don't think Reke is a superstar but I think he had star potential and deserved a chance to see how he could do with a competent coach. If it didn't work he still had more value on an open market than being forced to trade with one team.

If we re-sign Tyreke and he doesn't turn into a star(which i bet my money on), we lose Cousins as well because both guys are high usage players, Cousins at the very least has the potential to be able to draw doubles and find shooters. Tyreke will eternally be a 1 on 1 try and get to the rim player. He hasn't improved in 4 years like say guys like Jrue Holiday, Steph Curry all did, all coming from the same draft. Tyreke now is near exactly the same player he was as a 20 year old rookie. You can't say the same for guys like Holiday and Curry. Why should we assume he will all of a sudden make 3-4 years of progress up in one summer. It's not gonna happen, Tyreke will either be a good 6th man for the Hornets, or be the same thing he was here behind Holiday.

 

[Fresno King]

Once upon a time, the most exciting and successful Kings teams PASSED the ball like an art form. Beautiful ball movement that resulted in wide open shots and easy layups. Nowadays, this team has been allergic to passing. Now, we have a pass-first mentality PG who can create shots for teammates. Oh, and our big man isn't too bad of a passer either. If you weren't frustrated with Evans going one-on-one for 23 seconds of every possession, then you have selective amnesia. Evans is a solid player, but he didn't have the mindset to distribute as much as every PG should. A square peg in a round hole for what the Kings are looking to do.

 

[Fear the Putin]

*shakes his head*

Do you know what 40 wins does for this team next year?

It means that we aren't good enough to make the play-offs and we most probably lose our draft pick in one of the best drafts in a long, long time.

The only thing that can potentially salvage this situation is if DA is able to secure an impact player with the cap space saved in this deal.
And...we have to make the play-offs next season. If we just barely lose out...and lose our draft pick, then it will have been a failure of a season.

Edit: I might add that if we retained Tyreke and signed AI...and won 40 games with DMC being an all-star and B-Mac being ROY...and we still only won 40 games, missed the players and lost our draft pick...it still would have been a failure for the season. However, a team with Tyreke/Iggy/B-Mac/Cousins/new coach would win more than 40 games and would make the play-offs barring some catastrophic event.
I don't have faith that a Vasquez/B-Mac/Cousins trio can make the play-offs...unless of course we get another major impact player via the cap space.

is that what you want to keep on doing? That is EXACTLY what we were saying before we drafted Reke, Cousins, etc. The chance to draft Blake Griffin, the chance to draft John Wall, the chance to draft Kyrie Irving, the chance to draft Derrick Rose. You want to keep on being a **** team and possibly landing the #1 pick, go right ahead. Your gonna end up losing Cousins, missing on Wiggins and starting right back at square one. Then the bitchfest continues about our FO.

 

[Bricklayer]

Darn. Does this mean Thornton is coming back?

I don't see how unless BMac completely bombs in summer league and throws the entire Plan? into question.

Tyreke was versatile. Could swing to PG, swing to SF in order to get out of the way of a pure SG chucker like Thornton. But Marcus can't play anything but SG. And McLemore is 6'4" without a great handle, so he is too small for SF and has no handle for PG, so he's a pure SG too. Well if Reke and Marcus together didn't work minuteswise even with Reke's versatility, McLemore and Thornton DEFINITELY can't work, especially with Marcus's contract. You either squish the rookie you are trying to [over]hype, or you squish Thornton again, and end up wiping out any chance anybody will take his 8mil a year contract off your hands.

 

[Bricklayer]

is that what you want to keep on doing? That is EXACTLY what we were saying before we drafted Reke, Cousins, etc. The chance to draft Blake Griffin, the chance to draft John Wall, the chance to draft Kyrie Irving, the chance to draft Derrick Rose. You want to keep on being a **** team and possibly landing the #1 pick, go right ahead. Your gonna end up losing Cousins, missing on Wiggins and starting right back at square one. Then the bitchfest continues about our FO.

He is referring to the grey area around 40 wins. It can't be ignored. We lose our lottery pick in the best draft in a decade if we finish #13 on up. Since #16 is the first playoff team, there is a dead spot there for us. Make the playoffs, and giving up that pick is the cost of doing business. Finshing in the bottom 12 and your season has sucked, but you have a chance for a superstar. But finish #13-#15 and well,. you've blown it. You've accomplished nothing except robbing yourself of once in a decade chance at something irreplaceable.

 

[Entity]

Uh..yes.

And again. people don't undertand the league if they don't understand stars trump Grevis Vasquez's. The quarterback of his very own 27 win team BTW that finished 25th in the NBA in ppg. If Reke blows up, this is a disaster pending another star with that extra money. There is no way around it. If Reke doesn't blow up it still might be a mistake, but doesn't have to be.

again I am all for Tyreke giving it a go at pg here. but just opening my eyes a little wider. Evans has tools. Vasquez has a different set of tools. both can be effective. Tyreke would need another multi million dollar player to be effective at pg i.e. the iggy saga. Vasquez being a 2 mil a year player with the different set of tools (i'm not gonna go steve nash on you) but 9 ast per game is nothing to scoff at I don't care how may wins your team had. best player on said team was who? rookie davis or chucker gordon? anyway cuz > davis and Maclemore ? should be good though. Now that said with the 2 mil vs the 11 mil now it doesn't sting so bad to sign the multimillon dollar SF.

The only way Tyreke is effective on offense is to have your stud (Cousins) sitting out at an elbow or outer baseline for him to drive. Defense a different story Evans far better defender I agree again nash clause.

I know you Brick I am not going to change your mind as my mind has not been changed. I still want Tyreke. I just want to open my eyes a little to see if I can see that big picture that looms beyond my sight at the moment.

This deal without the multimillion dollar SF is stupid. this deal with the multimillion dollar Sf is interesting.

 

[Uncia03]

You wouldn't consider a 12-game win improvement a successful season? Yikes. High-standards. Not everyone can go the OKC route and increase their wins by 20+ in one season.

A 12 game improvement is not a successful season...and it's not high standards at all.

Let's ignore all the player-divide stuff for just a moment here. I have a question that I am curious about.

Let's say that Vivek and his team purchased the team last off-season. So there was going to be this change in culture. And then let's say that he brings in a great coach. (Just for the sake of argument...let's say he brings in Doc Rivers.)

Are you telling me that the team we had last year would have only won 28 games with a new invigorated culture and a great coach?

I personally believe that if those things were in place last year and we had the exact same roster...we would have won around 35-40 games.

And then...with the addition of B-Mac and potentially a stronger SF I would expect to make the play-offs this season.

That is where I am coming from.
I expect a great improvement by the team this year which has absolutely nothing to do with the roster, but instead everything to do with the new change in management and a competent head coach.

 

[Entity]

Maclemore top 5 at least in next years draft btw.

 

[Bricklayer]

What if Vasquez blows up?

No.

Into what exactly? Last year was his blowup. Be nice if he could come in shooting a little more accurately.

 

[Uncia03]

If we re-sign Tyreke and he doesn't turn into a star(which i bet my money on), we lose Cousins as well because both guys are high usage players, Cousins at the very least has the potential to be able to draw doubles and find shooters. Tyreke will eternally be a 1 on 1 try and get to the rim player. He hasn't improved in 4 years like say guys like Jrue Holiday, Steph Curry all did, all coming from the same draft. Tyreke now is near exactly the same player he was as a 20 year old rookie. You can't say the same for guys like Holiday and Curry. Why should we assume he will all of a sudden make 3-4 years of progress up in one summer. It's not gonna happen, Tyreke will either be a good 6th man for the Hornets, or be the same thing he was here behind Holiday.

Vasquez had higher usage than Tyreke.
Even IT had higher usage than Tyreke last year.
And paying 11m/year for someone like Tyreke...when you look at championship teams is a bargain.

 

[theclash4u5]

Is next year pick top-13 protected? If that's the case there's only one spot where we won't make the playoffs and lose our pick, the #14. 16 teams go to the playoffs, 14 go to the lottery.

Top 12 I think

 

[Fresno King]

Why tank a season when we now have an ownership group willing to spend money?

 

[theclash4u5]

Maclemore top 5 at least in next years draft btw.

Disagreed. If he came back with another strong year at Kansas, he probably goes 10-12. Next year's top 5 are all preceived to be All-Star type players. Wiggins and Randle are looked at the next LeBron.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Maclemore top 5 at least in next years draft btw.

What are you talking about? McLemore went 7th in a draft that is far, far weaker than next years. Unless I'm missing your point...

 

[Uncia03]

is that what you want to keep on doing? That is EXACTLY what we were saying before we drafted Reke, Cousins, etc. The chance to draft Blake Griffin, the chance to draft John Wall, the chance to draft Kyrie Irving, the chance to draft Derrick Rose. You want to keep on being a **** team and possibly landing the #1 pick, go right ahead. Your gonna end up losing Cousins, missing on Wiggins and starting right back at square one. Then the bitchfest continues about our FO.

What are you talking about?

I'm completely against tanking next year.

Don't you understand that if we end up with the 13th or 14th pick in the draft it means that we lose our 1st round draft pick to Cleveland due to the trade with Omri Caspi and J.J. Hickson?
Also a 13th or 14th pick means that we missed the the play-offs.

Next year...being an almost good enough team to make the play-offs is a disaster.
Typically the reward for missing the play-offs is that at least you have the opportunity to get a player in the draft that can make you better. In our case...we lose that pick.

Also, as I mentioned just a moment ago...had we had this FO revitalization last year...I would expected us to win 35-40 games due to the new management and a good coach. With a Tyreke/B-Mac/FA SF/Cousins, along with a motivated owner and new coach...we have enough talent to make the play-offs. I don't know if that is going to be the case if we go with just Vasquez and can't secure an impact player with the cap space.

 

[swisshh]

Vasquez put up 9apg on a team where his most reliable scoring option was Ryan Anderson. Consider that for a bit.

He's slow footed and that's his weakness on offense and defense. He's smart enough to learn how to play D without the physical tools, so that's what you hope for on the defensive side. On offense, he struggles a bit at the rim due to lack of explosiveness. His outside shot looks good and his 3pt shooting has improved each year.

Since they are not taking on Bropez's contract, it tells me there are more moves coming. I always felt Iggy was still in play. The rescinding of the offer was a message and statement, not a change of heart on wanting Iggy on the team. Beyond that, you have Granger available in trade and guys like AK47.

I think they'll also be looking to pick up a draft pick to balance out the stupid Hickson trade.

 

[The_Jamal]

A 12 game improvement is not a successful season...and it's not high standards at all.

Let's ignore all the player-divide stuff for just a moment here. I have a question that I am curious about.

Let's say that Vivek and his team purchased the team last off-season. So there was going to be this change in culture. And then let's say that he brings in a great coach. (Just for the sake of argument...let's say he brings in Doc Rivers.)

Are you telling me that the team we had last year would have only won 28 games with a new invigorated culture and a great coach?

I personally believe that if those things were in place last year and we had the exact same roster...we would have won around 35-40 games.

And then...with the addition of B-Mac and potentially a stronger SF I would expect to make the play-offs this season.

That is where I am coming from.
I expect a great improvement by the team this year which has absolutely nothing to do with the roster, but instead everything to do with the new change in management and a competent head coach.

I have no idea what we would have been last season with a great coach. And neither do you. Thus the trouble with living in the "what if" world.

We've been a perennial loser for a long while now. From our owners, to FO, to coaching, to our players, it has been nothing but a losing culture for this franchise. So while living in "what if" land is nice to save our collective minds from going bonkers, it doesn't mean we should scoff at winning 12+ games more than we did last season. That's a HUGE step forward for our franchise and getting this team back on the right track. We aren't a team that's full of 30+ year old, middle of the road talents either like our teams through the middle 00's. Virtually the entire roster has a window to continue to improve as players for several years

 

[jaysoonii]

I'm just waiting and hoping on these next tweets in order:

KINGS PULL OUT FROM TRADE TALKS. /// SIGN IGGY. // AMNESTY SALMONS. // MATCH TYREKE // TRADE JIMMER .

 

[Fresno King]

If Cousins becomes a 25 ppg all-star with his head on straight and we get a stud SF, this team could win 45-50 games.