Kings want Evans (latest news, tweets, etc.)
- Thread starter VF21
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Eh. I'd rather have Teague than Calderon. Calderon is a downright beautiful facilitator and shooter, but he's possibly the worst defender, ever. Teague isn't quite as polished as a floor general, but his defense is great, his shooting is decent and he brings athleticism that Jose's never even heard of.
Coming off the bench. A 2/3. And Dubin thinks it's a good move because Tyreke can play the 3. Koremenos thinks its good if Tyreke wants to play the three. Dubin and Koremenos should have watched a few games with Tyreke at the 3; it wasn't awe-inspiring. And they want to pay $11+ mill/year? Sorry, but in my book that's off the deep end. They are the classic outlier in the statistical bell curve (which means they aren't "the market"). Unless they think the Kings are dumb enough to give them cap relief and take Gordon off their hands. Then they get to have their cake and eat it too.
i love how devoid of evidence these kinds of posts always are...
evans' biggest detractors at kf.com like to believe that a great many of us overvalue evans because we're kings fans. well, here's a pelicans fan who understands just how valuable a player like tyreke can be:
http://www.pelicansreport.com/showt...s-been-made)&p=1113276&viewfull=1#post1113276
the bolded portion at the bottom does a good job of distilling the improvements that tyreke has made in the last four seasons, improvements that far too many kings fans either refuse to see or aren't aware enough to notice...
evans' biggest detractors at kf.com like to believe that a great many of us overvalue evans because we're kings fans. well, here's a pelicans fan who understands just how valuable a player like tyreke can be:
http://www.pelicansreport.com/showt...s-been-made)&p=1113276&viewfull=1#post1113276
the bolded portion at the bottom does a good job of distilling the improvements that tyreke has made in the last four seasons, improvements that far too many kings fans either refuse to see or aren't aware enough to notice...
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What kills me is that you were "told" once already, clearly sensitive about it, but at the end of it you were shown exactly where the bodies are buried (hoopdata.com or basketball-reference.com). Yet you continue to spout off all of these questions about Tyreke's stats in an accusational tone, as if Brick were hiding these magic numbers behind some impenetrable vault, accessible only by members of the Sabermetrics Illuminati.
Why not inform yourself before you come on here trashing the player who is so clearly coveted by us and other teams around the league? You'd see that there is strong, factual, statistical basis for the support Tyreke garners around here.
Here, I'll even make it easy for you:
Basketball-reference (my favorite of the stats sites): http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/evansty01.html
Hoopdata: http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Tyreke%20Evans
Why not inform yourself before you come on here trashing the player who is so clearly coveted by us and other teams around the league? You'd see that there is strong, factual, statistical basis for the support Tyreke garners around here.
Here, I'll even make it easy for you:
Basketball-reference (my favorite of the stats sites): http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/evansty01.html
Hoopdata: http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Tyreke%20Evans
you really need to break this habit of remembering things incorrectly without first checking the stats...
2010-2011: 20.1 apg, 15.6 topg
2011-2012: 19.3 apg, 13.8 topg
you'll notice a small spike in turnovers per game in '10-'11, but other than that, you're still looking at a general statistical insignificance with respect to the changing of the team's assist to turnover ratio each year of 'reke's career, despite the team bouncing him around between three different positions. the problem isn't tyreke, but rather who he has been paired with. 'reke happens to be the most efficient king on the court, with respect to his usage rate, and hardly deserves as much blame as he gets around these parts for the team's difficulty in moving the ball. that is often a systemic problem, and considering the insanity of both paul westphal's and keith smart's rotations, it should hardly be surprising that a young team had difficulty developing a consistency of ball movement...
2010-2011: 20.1 apg, 15.6 topg
2011-2012: 19.3 apg, 13.8 topg
you'll notice a small spike in turnovers per game in '10-'11, but other than that, you're still looking at a general statistical insignificance with respect to the changing of the team's assist to turnover ratio each year of 'reke's career, despite the team bouncing him around between three different positions. the problem isn't tyreke, but rather who he has been paired with. 'reke happens to be the most efficient king on the court, with respect to his usage rate, and hardly deserves as much blame as he gets around these parts for the team's difficulty in moving the ball. that is often a systemic problem, and considering the insanity of both paul westphal's and keith smart's rotations, it should hardly be surprising that a young team had difficulty developing a consistency of ball movement...
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It was pre/post all-star break from what I remember. It was basically when Smart took over. Hang on...
pre all-star
17apg and 14tos
post all-star (for the most part when IT started)
21apg and 13tos
That's what I was referring to. Not the whole season. Smart had put in IT in the middle of the year.
pre all-star
17apg and 14tos
post all-star (for the most part when IT started)
21apg and 13tos
That's what I was referring to. Not the whole season. Smart had put in IT in the middle of the year.
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well yeah, after dicking around with different combinations of thornton, fredette, brooks, and salmons, keith smart decided to start thomas. after recognizing that thomas' quickness could be an asset, despite his size and liability on defense, smart switched over to a run-and-gun style of play. the defense tanked, the points per game sky-rocketed, and the team was able to tack on a few extra assists per game, as well. we all know what went down, and the kings didn't exactly win any more games in the process. but your claim was that the years between tyreke's rookie season and his fourth year were worse, as far as team assist to turnover ratio was concerned, when they were, in fact, about the same, statistically speaking. it was an inaccurate claim...
at any rate, you're leaning on a woefully small sample size, all things considered, and i'd hardly call it a compelling argument that keith smart's issues with implementing a system reflect poorly on tyreke evans. that's on the coach, who never settled on a consistent rotation with consistent roles. consistent play cannot result under those erratic conditions. truth be told, isaiah thomas was just about the only benefactor of keith smart's insanity. he got a starting job, the ball was placed in his hands, and he had license to shoot whenever he wanted despite the fact that the team was an absolute failure on the defensive side of the ball and was losing the majority of its games with an undersized chucker of a PG...
at any rate, you're leaning on a woefully small sample size, all things considered, and i'd hardly call it a compelling argument that keith smart's issues with implementing a system reflect poorly on tyreke evans. that's on the coach, who never settled on a consistent rotation with consistent roles. consistent play cannot result under those erratic conditions. truth be told, isaiah thomas was just about the only benefactor of keith smart's insanity. he got a starting job, the ball was placed in his hands, and he had license to shoot whenever he wanted despite the fact that the team was an absolute failure on the defensive side of the ball and was losing the majority of its games with an undersized chucker of a PG...
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Just thinking aloud here.
I find it funny how a few fans clamored for us not to overpay Tyreke. They said (when we didn't offer him an extension): let the market (other teams) dictate Tyreke's worth so that we won't overpay. Now the Pelicans have offered Tyreke a fairly big contract, and to these same few it is still considered "overpaying". Of course maybe it truly is overpaying, but what if Detroit and Atlanta make similar or close offers? I'm beginning to wonder if these fans truly meant it when they said let the market dictate Tyreke's value, or whether they have had their minds made up all along that Tyreke isn't worth anything more than what Thornton is getting, and so a cent over 8mil is overpaying. Heck, it's 7mil to some!
I find it funny how a few fans clamored for us not to overpay Tyreke. They said (when we didn't offer him an extension): let the market (other teams) dictate Tyreke's worth so that we won't overpay. Now the Pelicans have offered Tyreke a fairly big contract, and to these same few it is still considered "overpaying". Of course maybe it truly is overpaying, but what if Detroit and Atlanta make similar or close offers? I'm beginning to wonder if these fans truly meant it when they said let the market dictate Tyreke's value, or whether they have had their minds made up all along that Tyreke isn't worth anything more than what Thornton is getting, and so a cent over 8mil is overpaying. Heck, it's 7mil to some!
First off, when hasn't the team been a failure defensively? We are in last no matter what lineup we throw out there. Second, the only thing I was trying to say is that I didn't go to a lot of the games because at that time the team was just so boring to watch. That was the initial post on the subject. I bought season tickets again this year and I didn't want to see the team go back to crap again with Reke being the ONLY ball handler on the floor. Which of course we can debate until the cows come home.
It's only crappy when the team isn't winning. OKC averaged 18 apg. And the reasons for the team not winning go far and beyond Tyreke Evans at PG or otherwise.
I say this as someone who loved watching the Spurs (lead the league in assists) play. I would love nothing more than for our team to play like the Spurs, but there's a reason Pop has 4 rings and Keith Smart will only ever be known for one shot (and maybe 50 years from now for being the man who led to my having HBP). At the end of the day, we fans just want to see our team win. I believe that can happen with Tyreke at PG, and I respect your opinion if you don't. Like I have maintained, neither of us have a reliable sample to base our judgment on going forward. We may play boring ball, but I'm just hoping it won't be crappy.
I say this as someone who loved watching the Spurs (lead the league in assists) play. I would love nothing more than for our team to play like the Spurs, but there's a reason Pop has 4 rings and Keith Smart will only ever be known for one shot (and maybe 50 years from now for being the man who led to my having HBP). At the end of the day, we fans just want to see our team win. I believe that can happen with Tyreke at PG, and I respect your opinion if you don't. Like I have maintained, neither of us have a reliable sample to base our judgment on going forward. We may play boring ball, but I'm just hoping it won't be crappy.
It's a matter of perspective, but two years ago in the first half of the season I always looked for someone to take my ticket from me. The second half of the season got exciting again. Even if we were losing we were still at least competing.
I have had season tickets for a lot of years off and on, and I had never wanted to give away tickets like I did that one half of the season. Now, some people might like that slow style of basketball? Not sure who though
We were getting whooped on every night it seemed.
I have had season tickets for a lot of years off and on, and I had never wanted to give away tickets like I did that one half of the season. Now, some people might like that slow style of basketball? Not sure who though
We were getting whooped on every night it seemed.most of them don't understand how the market actually functions in the nba. or they don't care, and prefer to assume that a team that refuses to overpay, that stands on principle alone, will be able to build a winning team. but it doesn't work that way, particularly if you're a small market franchise coming off seven straight losing seasons in the basement of the western conference...
in my view, you do not bleed young talent. ever. simple as that. you lock up that talent at reasonable cost per the market. so, in tyreke's case, that boils down to about $11 million per season. then you develop that talent, or you determine that it's not in your long term plans, and you trade it down the road. but you don't let talent walk out the door for nothing, unless you're attempting to save cap space for a truly splashy free agent signing...
of course, lebron james isn't coming to sacramento--likely fresh off its eighth straight losing season--in 2014. none of that top tier, superstar level talent is going to sign in sacramento. if you're a small market franchise in the kings' particular position, you bury those pipe dreams, because you're wasting time in the process. home grow what you've already got. cousins/evans/mclemore can be a winning trio, especially if you surround them with veteran, defensive talent...
in my view, you do not bleed young talent. ever. simple as that. you lock up that talent at reasonable cost per the market. so, in tyreke's case, that boils down to about $11 million per season. then you develop that talent, or you determine that it's not in your long term plans, and you trade it down the road. but you don't let talent walk out the door for nothing, unless you're attempting to save cap space for a truly splashy free agent signing...
of course, lebron james isn't coming to sacramento--likely fresh off its eighth straight losing season--in 2014. none of that top tier, superstar level talent is going to sign in sacramento. if you're a small market franchise in the kings' particular position, you bury those pipe dreams, because you're wasting time in the process. home grow what you've already got. cousins/evans/mclemore can be a winning trio, especially if you surround them with veteran, defensive talent...
during the first 10 or so games of this last season, the kings were in the top half of the league in all major defensive categories except rebounding. they weren't world-beaters, but it was immensely encouraging, and myself and a few others were celebrating while everybody else was mourning how ugly the offense was. but i don't give a **** about how ugly an offense is. give a starting unit time to build chemistry, and the offense will come, especially if the defense is clicking. but because the offense wasn't pretty, keith smart panicked and abandoned all hope for further improvement on the defensive end, resulting in just another season of top-ranked offense, bottom-ranked defense, and less than 30 wins...
If they do offer similar numbers, then yes, I'd say that is Tyreke's "market value". We will see on that. Until then, Tyreke's got an offer of $11+ mill/yr from a team that wants to play him at the three and coming off the bench. Now if I told you six months ago that a team was going to offer Tyreke $11 mill/yr for playing the three and coming off the bench, what would you think?
Hey hey now.. You can't say my using a half of a season is a small sample size when you are using 10 games
I agree though.. The coaching sucked, the players didn't want to play, but I still think some of the blame falls on the players, and I still think that Evans needs another ball handler with him (like Beno) in order to succeed.
I agree though.. The coaching sucked, the players didn't want to play, but I still think some of the blame falls on the players, and I still think that Evans needs another ball handler with him (like Beno) in order to succeed.
Hey hey now.. You can't say my using a half of a season is a small sample size when you are using 10 games
I agree though.. The coaching sucked, the players didn't want to play, but I still think some of the blame falls on the players, and I still think that Evans needs another ball handler with him (like Beno) in order to succeed.
I agree though.. The coaching sucked, the players didn't want to play, but I still think some of the blame falls on the players, and I still think that Evans needs another ball handler with him (like Beno) in order to succeed.
tyreke evans is a more than adequate ball handler and passer. andre iguodala and matt barnes are both SF's who can handle the ball and move it effectively without requiring very many shots of their own. they're also both excellent defenders on the wing. a trio of evans/mclemore/iguodala (or barnes) would go a terribly long way toward shutting down penetration, which would help cover up some of demarcus cousins' defensive weaknesses when he's not having to help on every player who had previously managed to slice into the paint (a regular occurrence under keith smart, and with isaiah thomas getting caught up on just about every screen). that's a team that can win some games, regardless of all the "tyreke is not a PG" hand-wringing...
FYI, the first 10 games of last season, the Kings were 2-8. They gave up an average of 100 points per game; the lowest pts allowed during the 10 games was 92; the highest was 112. This occurred, by the way, when James Johnson, the defensive specialist/lousy offensive player was playing between 20 - 30 minutes a game or therabouts.