Kings want Evans (latest news, tweets, etc.)

[sdballer]

That's total worst case scenario for me. We NEED another ball handler if Reke is going to move to PG. I have season tickets and I don't want to go through another year of 15 team assists vs 13 TOs.

Two years ago I was giving away my tickets because I didn't have the heart to go to more than 1 game a week in most cases.

Don't mean to keep picking on your posts but I've tried to call this out the last few times you've made this claim:

Last year as a team we averaged 20.7 apg and 14.6 to's
In Reke's rookie year with him at pg 20.5 apg and 14.9 to's

 

[Spike]

Thanks for the info. So basically NO making the offer a deterrent to us matching is a load of BS.

That's the sense I got. My guess is that the meeting detailed that Sac would match, but likely not at the structure presented by NO, if that were to be the issue (either the front loading or back loading). Hearing the structure clarification kind of renders this idea moot.

Of course, I'm pulling this out of my behind - the only thing I can imagine is the final number being prohibitive.

 

[Spike]

Don't mean to keep picking on your posts but I've tried to call this out the last few times you've made this claim:

Last year as a team we averaged 20.7 apg and 14.6 to's
In Reke's rookie year with him at pg 20.5 apg and 14.9 to's

I'm no Capt. Factorial (although I do play a math teacher during the off-season), but that reaches statistical insignificance.

 

[hrdboild]

Well, "poison pill" is definitely the wrong phrase - that refers to a situation where a player gets a big extension and is then traded before the extension takes effect (i.e. at a much lower salary than the average value of the future contract). In that case, the salary cap hit for the trade for the receiving team is the average salary over the remainder of the contract. But this is clearly not a poison pill.

It also can't be a "Gilbert Arenas Provision" contract - which is what the Rockets did for Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik last year, that $5M/$5M/$14M structure - because that provision only applies towards players who have only 1 or 2 years in the league and thus their teams don't have full Bird Rights for matching like we do for Tyreke.

In fact, I'm not really clear what sort of shenanigans the Pelicans could possibly pull, outside of giving Tyreke the max offer available given their cap space.

Performance incentive hijinks? I don't know the specifics as to what the limits are, but it seems like there's a considerable amount of grey area regarding the extent to which incentives in the new CBA do or do not count toward a team's salary cap.

 

[HndsmCelt]

It wouldn't be the end of the world. We do have serviceable players. Evans will not walk though. There would be a sign and trade if anything. Lopez, and General Greivis would be fine.

I honestly don't know where you get this from. First you exclaim that if owners pay Reek the the 11+ mill a year that the market is obviously bearing, and then can not sign a new SF the end is neigh. If you have any validity to your premiss that Reek is NOT worth that kind of money, then why would the current owners offer MORE to make a sign and trade work out unless they were getting MORE talent back? And if they do make the deal that leaves LESS money available for a TOP SF like Iggy or AK 47. Then you suggest that the acceptable trade would for a guard everyone including NO considers inferior to Reek, and the lesser Lopez giving us a 3rd Center... Congrats you just kept the log jam at Guard position, created one at the Center, and left the gaping hole at the 3 with LESS cap space to fill it with. Oh and you also diluted the talent in the starting 5.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Performance incentive hijinks? I don't know the specifics as to what the limits are, but it seems like there's a considerable amount of grey area regarding the extent to which incentives in the new CBA do or do not count toward a team's salary cap.

Performance incentives *almost* would have been able to explain some salary cap hijinks, but in the end they can't. I'll explain because this would have been really tricky:

Performance incentives are classified as "likely" or "unlikely" based solely on last season's results. If the player/team met the incentive last season, it is "likely", if not, it is "unlikely", and there is no other data taken into consideration. Furthermore, "likely" bonuses count against the salary cap, but "unlikely" bonuses don't. Here's where the Pelicans could try to get tricksy...New Orleans won 27 games last year; the Kings won 28. If the Pelicans included a performance incentive (worth the maximal 15% of the base salary) in Tyreke's contract for the team winning 28 games, it would be "likely" for the Kings and count against our salary cap, but "unlikely" for the Pelicans and not count against their salary cap.

BUT, and this is a big exception, the sum total of base salary AND bonuses (both likely and unlikely) must fit into the team's salary cap at the time of signing. So let's say New Orleans has exactly $11.5M in cap space. They can't offer an $11.5M contract with a $1.725M performance bonus for 28 wins, because $13.225M does not fit into their salary cap. They could, however, offer this contract: $10M/$10.45M/$10.9M/$11.35M, with performance bonuses of $1.5M/$1.5675M/$1.635M/$1.7025M for 28 wins. That would be a 4/$42.8M base salary contract, with 4/$49.105M max value, which said max value is the exact amount of of an $11.5M starting contract with maximum 4.5% raises.

So it doesn't actually change the maximum it would force the Kings to match, but it might (if the Pelicans don't meet the benchmarks for wins) reduce New Orleans' payout. And make them look cheap to Tyreke, one would assume.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

i guess its a nice sign that Tyreke's brother is tweeting stuff like this:

Christian Thompson ‏@Letsgokings13 30 Jun
@Bluprintceo Reke gotta stay man, things are bout to get special in sactown

INTERNATIONAL i ‏@Bluprintceo 22h
@Letsgokings13 I agree. It's up to the Kings. Haha.



AND



Mustafa Karim ‏@MustafaTheKid 59m
@Bluprintceo @MaximizeBball @LaMontPeterson @WAVY_WEEZ damn Reke's gunna be a pelican now ? No more King


INTERNATIONAL i ‏@Bluprintceo 58m
@MustafaTheKid @MaximizeBball @LaMontPeterson @WAVY_WEEZ no. That's not true.


And, he retweeted this

Nelson ‏@NWebster15 16m
@Bluprintceo @MustafaTheKid @LaMontPeterson @WAVY_WEEZ i sure hope not. Kings franchise is turning a corner, i hope Tyreke is a part of it!

 

[Agent23]

Don't mean to keep picking on your posts but I've tried to call this out the last few times you've made this claim:

Last year as a team we averaged 20.7 apg and 14.6 to's
In Reke's rookie year with him at pg 20.5 apg and 14.9 to's

Addition by subtraction remember?! If we get rid of Reke, we'd average 40 assists a game with no turnovers. He's the singular reason this team hasn't won a championship yet. Come on, wake up guys!

 

[Section 101]

Performance incentives *almost* would have been able to explain some salary cap hijinks, but in the end they can't. I'll explain because this would have been really tricky:

Performance incentives are classified as "likely" or "unlikely" based solely on last season's results. If the player/team met the incentive last season, it is "likely", if not, it is "unlikely", and there is no other data taken into consideration. Furthermore, "likely" bonuses count against the salary cap, but "unlikely" bonuses don't. Here's where the Pelicans could try to get tricksy...New Orleans won 27 games last year; the Kings won 28. If the Pelicans included a performance incentive (worth the maximal 15% of the base salary) in Tyreke's contract for the team winning 28 games, it would be "likely" for the Kings and count against our salary cap, but "unlikely" for the Pelicans and not count against their salary cap.

BUT, and this is a big exception, the sum total of base salary AND bonuses (both likely and unlikely) must fit into the team's salary cap at the time of signing. So let's say New Orleans has exactly $11.5M in cap space. They can't offer an $11.5M contract with a $1.725M performance bonus for 28 wins, because $13.225M does not fit into their salary cap. They could, however, offer this contract: $10M/$10.45M/$10.9M/$11.35M, with performance bonuses of $1.5M/$1.5675M/$1.635M/$1.7025M for 28 wins. That would be a 4/$42.8M base salary contract, with 4/$49.105M max value, which said max value is the exact amount of of an $11.5M starting contract with maximum 4.5% raises.

So it doesn't actually change the maximum it would force the Kings to match, but it might (if the Pelicans don't meet the benchmarks for wins) reduce New Orleans' payout. And make them look cheap to Tyreke, one would assume.

cbafaq

When a restricted free agent wants to sign with another team, the player and team sign an offer sheet, the principal terms of which the original team is given three days to match. The offer sheet must be for at least two seasons (not including option years). If the player's prior team also submitted a maximum qualifying offer, then the offer sheet must be for at least three seasons (not including option years). If the player's original team exercises its right of first refusal within three days, the player is then under contract to his original team, at the principal terms of the offer sheet (but not the non-principal terms). If the player's original team does not exercise its right of first refusal within three days (or provides written notice that it is declining its right of first refusal), the offer sheet becomes an official contract with the new team.

The principal terms of an offer sheet consist of the following. Any other terms of an offer are not considered to be principal terms, and the player's original team is not required to match:

The number of years, including option years.3
The base salary
The amount of any signing bonus or deferred compensation, including the payment schedule
Certain bonuses -- those considered to be "likely" for both teams (see question number 72), and those based on generally recognized league honors4
Any allowable amendments such as guarantees and trade bonuses

As with any contract offer, a team must have enough room -- either cap room or room provided by an exception -- for the offer sheet. They must also maintain sufficient room while the offer sheet is outstanding -- e.g., they can't sign a restricted free agent to an offer sheet, and then use up all their cap room by signing another free agent during the three-day waiting period.

Likewise, the player's prior team cannot match an offer sheet that is greater than their room. They must have enough room -- again, either cap room or a satisfactory exception -- at the time they are given notice that the player has signed an offer sheet, and at all times until matching. They cannot make moves to create sufficient room after receiving an offer sheet.

Some interesting stuff. So if they offer a contract that has starting year salary that is more than our cap space we can't match.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Some interesting stuff. So if they offer a contract that has starting year salary that is more than our cap space we can't match.

The key phrase here is:

They must have enough room -- again, either cap room or a satisfactory exception

We have the Larry Bird Exception for Tyreke. We can match any offer regardless of cap space.

 

[Uncia03]

That is interesting and probably the reason why 4 year players coming off their rookie contract take up 250% of the previous year's salary. That's a bit over 13m in Tyreke's case.
Fortunately this isn't something that can be used by NO or any other team to prevent us from signing Tyreke.

 

[NewArena]

If we over pay Tyreke and still don't have a SF I think I'm going to jump off a cliff.

Its the beginning of July either way lol relax. Building a great team, starts with keeping ur most talented guys

 

[kennadog]

The key phrase here is:

We have the Larry Bird Exception for Tyreke. We can match any offer regardless of cap space.

Have I told you lately that I love your mind, Capt? (Not intended to be interpreted as creepy.)

Saves me so much time looking that all up and figuring out the meaning. And you explain things so clearly and succinctly.

 

[NewArena]

Jump off two cliffs, obviously.

I chuckled at this

 

[Glenn]

The key phrase here is:



We have the Larry Bird Exception for Tyreke. We can match any offer regardless of cap space.

For awhile it seemed like all that verbiage was nullifying the Bird exception until the final phrase that you singled out. Another way around this whole mess is to get Tyreke to sign at the amount the bidding seemed to indicate was the going rate and close out the efforts of the other teams. It's not like Tyreke doesn't have something to say about where he plays.

Om another matter, I wondered where Jason Jones got the idea that there could be a S&T with NO involving Evans, Vasquex, and Lopez. I think the fact that all three are represented by Tellem has something to do with it. I also suspect NO was deliberately being nice to Tellem by scheduling Tyreke at the first possible moment. There is nothing wrong with a team going in cahoots with an agent even if there is some payoff somewhere down the road but to me IT STINKS!

 

[Rockmeister]

[ ] Not Told
[X] Told

[/QUOTE
So, I got told. BIG DEAL. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Rockmeister]

That's total worst case scenario for me. We NEED another ball handler if Reke is going to move to PG. I have season tickets and I don't want to go through another year of 15 team assists vs 13 TOs.

I, too an a season ticket holder and I don't want a 15 team assists every game. I think the Kings were last or 2nd to the last in assists. Anyways, how many games did the Kings win WITHOUT Tyreke? Also show me the number to where Tyreke has improved in the last 4 years. Can he make a wide open 18 footer on a regular basis? I would like to see the numbers on these? Brick?

Look, just to get one thing straight, I am NOT against signing Tyreke (as said in a previous post).

 

[ParniValjak]

The 4 year $44 million deal does not even make me blink. I would match that without thinking about it!

Even 4 year $48 million should not be a problem in my eyes.

Players in the NBA always get paid on potential and that will never change. While in some people's eye Tyreke is not worth that money, all he needs to do is put up his career numbers and he is a very moveable contract. We had Tyreke for 4 years at an absolute bargain so even if we "over pay" now, it is all levelling out!

The rumours of front loading do not worry me. I would be more concerned with the backloading of the contract because in 2 years time Cousins will be on max and if we get Iggy he would be on a sizeable salary as well!

I would like to see Tyreke agree to terms with us as he obviously wants to stay in Scramento but we would need to come to the party as well!

 

[Bricklayer]

I, too an a season ticket holder and I don't want a 15 team assists every game. I think the Kings were last or 2nd to the last in assists. Anyways, how many games did the Kings win WITHOUT Tyreke? Also show me the number to where Tyreke has improved in the last 4 years. Can he make a wide open 18 footer on a regular basis? I would like to see the numbers on these? Brick?

Look, just to get one thing straight, I am NOT against signing Tyreke (as said in a previous post).

points of OBVIOUS improvement, to all watching fairly:
-- can hit a spot three now
-- shot selection
-- fewer turnovers
-- defense

Now, as for Reke being able to hit an 18 footer, well my general answer might start WHO CARES??? Like I said, I think too many people know basketball from shooting hoops in the driveway. But I'll play. Below I am going to list out the shot location data, attempts, makes, and percentages for 5 different players:

[table="width: 600"]
[tr]
[td]Name[/td]
[td]At Rim[/td]
[td]3-9 feet[/td]
[td]10-15ft[/td]
[td]16-23ft[/td]
[td]Threes[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Player 1[/td]
[td]2.7att 66.9%[/td]
[td]0.5att 31.3%[/td]
[td]0.3att 31.6%[/td]
[td]1.1att 30.0%[/td]
[td]3.9att 35.3%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Player 2[/td]
[td]6.0att 63.2%[/td]
[td]1.4att 27.0%[/td]
[td]0.2att 40.0%[/td]
[td]2.0att 31.0%[/td]
[td]2.0att 33.8%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Player 3[/td]
[td]1.2att 62.0%[/td]
[td]0.7att 37.3%[/td]
[td]0.7att 34.6%[/td]
[td]1.7att 35.0%[/td]
[td]3.5att 37.1%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Player 4[/td]
[td]2.9att 70.0%[/td]
[td]1.5att 30.7%[/td]
[td]0.6att 40.9%[/td]
[td]1.2att 32.0%[/td]
[td]4.0att 35.8%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Player 5[/td]
[td]2.3att 71.1%[/td]
[td]0.8att 31.5%[/td]
[td]0.5att 40.6%[/td]
[td]1.7att 29.0%[/td]
[td]5.3att 37.2%[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]


Maybe your question should have been, can anybody hit an 18 foot jumper? The 5 players BTW are Manu Ginobili, Tyreke, Salmons, IT and Thornton. All of the other players essentially just chuck and duck from three point land. Reke is the driving master. But no matter if you are a chucker or a rim attacker, all of this midrange junk which gets rather hypocritically held up as some sort of gold standard, in fact is low percentage stuff for a great many players, not just Reke.

 

[KingMilz]

Here's the point none of you, except like 2 people are getting.

If our FO believes in Reke for the future, great. Pay the man and let's move forward with building around Reke-Cousins. If we DON'T think he can play PG then we should be looking to get something in return for him in a S&T. Keeping him because he's talented his an atrocious way to approach building a team.

I'll put my faith in the FO. I personally don't believe in Reke at PG at $12mil a year, but am willing to be proven wrong

I pretty much agree with everything here, if he's not playing PG do a sign and trade with Atlanta for Teague or something like that, just at least get a couple of decent pieces back if we don't plan on letting him run the point. No point having a talented player if for 3 years straight your not going to maximize his strengths.

 

[GoodOldDouwe]

' Free agent guard Jose Calderon is meeting with the Kings in Sacramento today, agent Mark Bartelstein tells HoopsHype.'

Could this be a plan B, in case they don't resign Reke?

 

[Section 101]

The key phrase here is:



We have the Larry Bird Exception for Tyreke. We can match any offer regardless of cap space.

Doh, the heat got to me ! I wasn't thinking exception on our side.

 

[Rockmeister]

In the sac bee, it said Tyreke averaged 15.2 points, 4.4 rebounds and 3.5 assists in 31 minutes. He dished 3.5 assists. Is this someone you want to pay 11 to 12 million??? Oh, yea, he did post a career high in field-goal 47.8 percentage.

 

[KingMilz]

' Free agent guard Jose Calderon is meeting with the Kings in Sacramento today, agent Mark Bartelstein tells HoopsHype.'

Could this be a plan B, in case they don't resign Reke?

Better off going after Teague who is younger and better

 

[Padrino]

In the sac bee, it said Tyreke averaged 15.2 points, 4.4 rebounds and 3.5 assists in 31 minutes. He dished 3.5 assists. Is this someone you want to pay 11 to 12 million??? Oh, yea, he did post a career high in field-goal 47.8 percentage.

as a matter of fact, it is. 'reke averaged those numbers as a shooting guard who had been shoved off-the-ball. 3.5 apg is more than acceptable for a SG. if he's paired with mclemore and moved back to PG, and if his minutes are bumped back up to a more acceptable 35 mpg, i expect those numbers to rise, including his assists. he already proved he can average at least 5 per game. with more talent around him (and a dead-eye shooter in mclemore, as opposed to, say, omri casspi), you're looking at a successful drive-and-kick game...

let me give you some historical perspective, since a great many at kf.com seem to be at a lack for it. in 2001-2002, mike bibby averaged 13.7 ppg (45% shooting), 2.8 rpg, and 5 apg. as an unathletic PG, he was awarded with a 7-year, $80 million contract. that's $11 million per for a player with maybe half of 'reke's overall talent and physical gifts. but you have to pay to keep talent, especially if you're in a small market. and you certainly have to pay to win. it's just how it goes...

of course, the CBA is structured differently now, but it's hardly a stretch to imagine handing out at least $11 million per for tyreke evans, and the market is bearing that out accordingly...

 

[andjel]

In the sac bee, it said Tyreke averaged 15.2 points, 4.4 rebounds and 3.5 assists in 31 minutes. He dished 3.5 assists. Is this someone you want to pay 11 to 12 million??? Oh, yea, he did post a career high in field-goal 47.8 percentage.

3.5 as a SF.
As a rookie PG (the onlynseason he was pg) he had about the same number of assists as Westerbrook, just better ast/to ratio.
One had Durant on his team, the other one had...
One was groomed as pg from his team since then, the other one was groomed to be sg/sf.

 

[Entity]

In the sac bee, it said Tyreke averaged 15.2 points, 4.4 rebounds and 3.5 assists in 31 minutes. He dished 3.5 assists. Is this someone you want to pay 11 to 12 million??? Oh, yea, he did post a career high in field-goal 47.8 percentage.

I don't see you changing anybody's mind. I don't see anybody changing your mind. Nothing is changing. Just stop every argument you bring up is debunked by actual stats or common sense. for instance you argument here is the assist of a guy that didn't play pg and a on a team that for some reason was trying to highlight a 5'7 pg that controlled the ball in a backyard style offense.

 

[andjel]

Probably it will not matter to most in trenches, never less here are some more numbers regarding Reke's improvement:
http://www.pelicansreport.com/showt...ith-Tyreke-Evans-(offer-has-been-made)/page52
Post is in the middle of the page.
There is also a link in the post that shows that all stats varied very slightly since his rookie year, except assists (which can easily be explained since he was no Kings pg anymore).
Pelicans can be useful birds

 

[Kingster]

For awhile it seemed like all that verbiage was nullifying the Bird exception until the final phrase that you singled out. Another way around this whole mess is to get Tyreke to sign at the amount the bidding seemed to indicate was the going rate and close out the efforts of the other teams. It's not like Tyreke doesn't have something to say about where he plays.

Om another matter, I wondered where Jason Jones got the idea that there could be a S&T with NO involving Evans, Vasquex, and Lopez. I think the fact that all three are represented by Tellem has something to do with it. I also suspect NO was deliberately being nice to Tellem by scheduling Tyreke at the first possible moment. There is nothing wrong with a team going in cahoots with an agent even if there is some payoff somewhere down the road but to me IT STINKS!

The thing that gets me about the S&T scenario is that you're doing NO a favor by taking salaries off their books. Leaving aside the keep/not keep Tyreke issues, I'd like for NO to eat that $11+ million/yr without any cap relief.

 

[Section 101]

ESPN Free Agent fit for 5 free agents. (Not Insider)

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-130702/nba-good-bad-nba-free-agent-fits

2. Good fit or bad fit: Tyreke Evans and the New Orleans Pelicans.

Dubin: Good fit. Evans quietly turned in the best shooting performance of his career last season (though he still shot only 33.3 percent from 3-point land) and is versatile enough that he can play small forward next to a Jrue Holiday-Eric Gordon backcourt as well as some shooting guard with bench-heavy units. For a team whose current small forward rotation last season consisted of Al-Farouq Aminu and Lance Thomas, this is a perfectly reasonable move to make.

Foster: Bad fit for now. Add up last season's usage percentages for Gordon, Holiday, Evans, Ryan Anderson and Anthony Davis, and the total number is 124.1 percent. Unless the Pelicans get to play with two balls as a parting gift from David Stern, that's going to leave some folks unhappy with their touches. Trade Gordon and it's a decent fit, but it's a bad one as is.

Haberstroh: Good fit. Not a fan of the reported price tag of four years, $44 million, but as long as Evans is on board with a role off the bench and possibly playing a little small forward, I give this move two big thumbs up. Also consider the fact that Eric Gordon has an iffy health record, and Evans can serve as insurance at 2-guard. Another big thing: Anything's better than Austin Rivers.

Koremenos: Is interesting an option? Hard to say whether Evans will be a good or bad fit without seeing what his role is and who plays next to him. A Holiday-Gordon-Evans lineup has a lot of offensive potential, but if Evans balks at playing the 3, it would have probably been better for New Orleans to spend its money on someone who winds up being more than a sixth man.

Schmidt: Good fit. The Pelicans have the luxury of one of the best shooting big men in the NBA in Andersen. If any team can get away with a nonshooter at the 2 or 3, it's them. Evans will also have a clearly defined role next to Holiday that he never seemed to have in Sacramento.