Aparrently, Toney Douglas is better than Jimmer

[rhythmless]

Lets see here.....why don't we compare a 5th year NBA player (player A) to a 2nd year player (player B).

1) Player A has 3 full NBA seasons to develop when the lock out shortened season happened that welcomed player B to his rookie year.

2) Player A is on his 3rd NBA team having played for a pretty good variety of coaches. Including one who is HOF as a player. Player B has been in Sacto playing for the Maloofs and Smart.

3) Player A was known as a defensive force in college. Player B was an offensive force in college.

IMHO we are comparing apples to oranges here. I like both these guys and they are definitely at different stages of development with Toney having a 3 year edge in age and NBA experience.

KB

Its not quite as disparate a comparison as you make it out to be. Td is older, but a far more polished defensive player. Sometimes that may be what this team needs at that moment. Jimmer is basically useless unless he's jacking up a shot. Can't handle under pressure, can't score inside. Hell, he rarely gets a layup off fast breaks because the defender can catch up so quickly.

I get that Jimmer is younger, but as a coach, you still have to think game by game and go with results for that game. Other players don't give a crap how old you are. The basketball doesn't care how old you are, and neither does the hoop. Age is no crutch. Fix your weaknesses and perform, or get the hell out because someone else will do the job.

 

[Glenn]

Its not quite as disparate a comparison as you make it out to be. Td is older, but a far more polished defensive player. Sometimes that may be what this team needs at that moment. Jimmer is basically useless unless he's jacking up a shot. Can't handle under pressure, can't score inside. Hell, he rarely gets a layup off fast breaks because the defender can catch up so quickly.

I get that Jimmer is younger, but as a coach, you still have to think game by game and go with results for that game. Other players don't give a crap how old you are. The basketball doesn't care how old you are, and neither does the hoop. Age is no crutch. Fix your weaknesses and perform, or get the hell out because someone else will do the job.

Jimmer's problem is that his inadequacies are almost impossible to correct. He can't get taller, he can't get faster, he probably can't develop better handles , etc. His primary skill is shooting and he should not be asked to do anything else unless some of his deficiencies magically improve and voila! (that's the way you spell it baja ) he becomes different. My primary disappointment with him is that he seems to have lost his shot which was present earlier in the season. If stats prove me wrong about the beginning of the year, I'll even concede that point. The biggest question is what to do with him. We certainly could make him the 12th man the next few years and blow that money or we could keep searching for a use for him.

His inadequacies are no surprise. yet I wanted us to pick him as I hadn't seen a shooter like him in a long time at least in a Kings uniform. I figured there had to be a use for that as that is the skill that ends directly in points. Now either he has failed or Smart has failed as Smart has focused on IT or it's the perfect storm.

 

[beb0p]

There's been a lot of comparison to JJ Redick. Just want to point out that Redick is around 6'-5" in shoes. Jimmer is 6'-2.5" in shoes. To put it in perspective, Redick is the same height as Tyreke and James Harden. Redick has enough size to play SG. Jimmer doesn't. The league has its share of 6'-5"-ish spot up shooters (Bob Sura, Craig Ehlo, etc) but I struggle to come up with another SG shorter than 6'3", unathletic, slow, spot up shooter who cannot play PG even in spot minutes. I guess Eddie House (and maybe Tony Delk?) come close but he can play some PG and is quick and athletic.

Point is, this is uncharted territory - undersized, slow, spot-up shooting SG usually don't crack the rotation (if they even make the league at all). Jimmer is the exception because he's just so dawn good at shooting from deep but I think he's hitting his ceiling as a SG. I don't see Jimmer as ever becoming as good as Redick, simply because of the size issue. But, I still hold out hope that he can somehow, some way, figure out the PG position (even just as a combo guard who can play PG in spurts).

 

[rhythmless]

Jimmer's problem is that his inadequacies are almost impossible to correct. He can't get taller, he can't get faster, he probably can't develop better handles , etc. His primary skill is shooting and he should not be asked to do anything else unless some of his deficiencies magically improve and voila! (that's the way you spell it baja ) he becomes different. My primary disappointment with him is that he seems to have lost his shot which was present earlier in the season. If stats prove me wrong about the beginning of the year, I'll even concede that point. The biggest question is what to do with him. We certainly could make him the 12th man the next few years and blow that money or we could keep searching for a use for him.

His inadequacies are no surprise. yet I wanted us to pick him as I hadn't seen a shooter like him in a long time at least in a Kings uniform. I figured there had to be a use for that as that is the skill that ends directly in points. Now either he has failed or Smart has failed as Smart has focused on IT or it's the perfect storm.

I disagree. He can get better handles quite easily. He's cant grow, but he could incorporate better fakes and counters, as well as use his body to shield the defense for his layups. As it is, he just waits for teammates on a break instead of being aggressive. He could get a runner after a pump fake. And there's almost always room to train harder for speed and quickness. He could gain some muscle which will help with finishing against contact. There's a lot of things a player can do. The best ones keep adding through hard work and sacrifice. Most are content to let their natural talent carry them as far as it will go. This extends past basketball.

 

[mac]

There's been a lot of comparison to JJ Redick. Just want to point out that Redick is around 6'-5" in shoes. Jimmer is 6'-2.5" in shoes. To put it in perspective, Redick is the same height as Tyreke and James Harden. Redick has enough size to play SG. Jimmer doesn't. The league has its share of 6'-5"-ish spot up shooters (Bob Sura, Craig Ehlo, etc) but I struggle to come up with another SG shorter than 6'3", unathletic, slow, spot up shooter who cannot play PG even in spot minutes. I guess Eddie House (and maybe Tony Delk?) come close but he can play some PG and is quick and athletic.

Point is, this is uncharted territory - undersized, slow, spot-up shooting SG usually don't crack the rotation (if they even make the league at all). Jimmer is the exception because he's just so dawn good at shooting from deep but I think he's hitting his ceiling as a SG. I don't see Jimmer as ever becoming as good as Redick, simply because of the size issue. But, I still hold out hope that he can somehow, some way, figure out the PG position (even just as a combo guard who can play PG in spurts).

That's a good point that I failed to mention when talking about Redick guarding Ray Allen. But that's why I think you play Jimmer with Tyreke, and have Tyreke be the primary ball handler. Jimmer acts as the SG but will probably have a shorter guy guarding him as their SG guards Evans

 

[beb0p]

That's a good point that I failed to mention when talking about Redick guarding Ray Allen. But that's why I think you play Jimmer with Tyreke, and have Tyreke be the primary ball handler. Jimmer acts as the SG but will probably have a shorter guy guarding him as their SG guards Evans

I think that's too much fiddling just to hide a 6'-2" spot up shooter. If Tyreke is going to be the primary ball handler then may as well just use Thornton next to him. In fact, there are no shortage of 6'5"-ish guys who can spot-up that can be signed for the minimum. Jimmer is not going to out-play those 6'-5"-ish guys for the spot-up role, just not. He needs to figure out a way to steal mins at PG if he's going to be a rotation player. Simple as that.

 

[Darth Divac]

My opinion of Toney Douglas has soared. Thread closing.

 

[Glenn]

One good game and one team's cast off is our new hero. Shows you how bad we suck. Douglas sure fits better than Brooks or IT though. I wish Smart would spend time with other players like he does with IT because I think IT is a dead end and I am beginning to dislike him as much as some dislike Cousins and some dislike Tyreke.

 

[Darth Divac]

One good game and one team's cast off is our new hero. Shows you how bad we suck. Douglas sure fits better than Brooks or IT though. I wish Smart would spend time with other players like he does with IT because I think IT is a dead end and I am beginning to dislike him as much as some dislike Cousins and some dislike Tyreke.

Yeah, I agree. I thought he was great for a while, but I'm starting to question why we haven't used his overperformance-jacked-up trade value to get a real PG.

 

[funkykingston]

There's been a lot of comparison to JJ Redick. Just want to point out that Redick is around 6'-5" in shoes. Jimmer is 6'-2.5" in shoes. To put it in perspective, Redick is the same height as Tyreke and James Harden. Redick has enough size to play SG. Jimmer doesn't. The league has its share of 6'-5"-ish spot up shooters (Bob Sura, Craig Ehlo, etc) but I struggle to come up with another SG shorter than 6'3", unathletic, slow, spot up shooter who cannot play PG even in spot minutes. I guess Eddie House (and maybe Tony Delk?) come close but he can play some PG and is quick and athletic.

Yeah, The Redick comparison is I think based on hope more than reality. Redick took time to find his niche in the NBA and people would like to think Jimmer could follow a similar career arc. But Redick is a slightly undersized 2. Jimmer is a very undersized one who doesn't make up for that lack of size with strength or quickness or savvy. I thought Jimmer started showing some flashes at the end of last season when other guys (chiefly Terrence Williams) were handling the ball and looking to hit him for open jumpers rather than expecting Fredette to play a traditional PG role. He COULD be a good compliment to Tyreke in that way but will still be a liability defensively.

I like Jimmer and I really want to see him succeed but we have to be realistic about what he is and what his NBA potential can be.

And I personally need to stop thinking that what we should really have is Kawhi Leonard at the 3, Beno starting with Tyreke or being the 3rd guard off the bench and Dalembert at center as a pretty good stop gap until Andre Drummond is ready to be a starter. Sheesh.

Of course right now, I just want the Kings to stay in Sacramento, poorly built roster and all.

 

[ParniValjak]

Yeah, The Redick comparison is I think based on hope more than reality. Redick took time to find his niche in the NBA and people would like to think Jimmer could follow a similar career arc. But Redick is a slightly undersized 2. Jimmer is a very undersized one who doesn't make up for that lack of size with strength or quickness or savvy. I thought Jimmer started showing some flashes at the end of last season when other guys (chiefly Terrence Williams) were handling the ball and looking to hit him for open jumpers rather than expecting Fredette to play a traditional PG role. He COULD be a good compliment to Tyreke in that way but will still be a liability defensively.

I like Jimmer and I really want to see him succeed but we have to be realistic about what he is and what his NBA potential can be.

And I personally need to stop thinking that what we should really have is Kawhi Leonard at the 3, Beno starting with Tyreke or being the 3rd guard off the bench and Dalembert at center as a pretty good stop gap until Andre Drummond is ready to be a starter. Sheesh.

Of course right now, I just want the Kings to stay in Sacramento, poorly built roster and all.

That post made me depressed!

I feel you pain bro! We were SOOOO close to getting the roster set yet we blew it all up in one ****ing offseason! Beno-Reke-Thornton as a guard rotation. Leonard at the 3 and Dally-Cousins-JT as the big man rotations. Add Drummond as Dally's replacement and we are set at every freaking position.

Now we are almost back to square one. Mind you its still fixable with 2-3 smart moves but we could have been 2 years ahead by this stage, instead we are almost back to square one. At least we haven't managed to get rid of Cousins and Evans in the process so at least new ownership has some decent foundation to start with.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Imagine if we had drafted Curry instead of Tyreke, kept Martin, added Thornton, drafted Klay instead of Jimmer. Whoooo boy. With DMC in the fold, the only thing we would need is a REAL coach.

 

[x2RedReaper2x]

and real defense...

 

[funkykingston]

That post made me depressed!

I feel you pain bro! We were SOOOO close to getting the roster set yet we blew it all up in one ****ing offseason! Beno-Reke-Thornton as a guard rotation. Leonard at the 3 and Dally-Cousins-JT as the big man rotations. Add Drummond as Dally's replacement and we are set at every freaking position.

Now we are almost back to square one. Mind you its still fixable with 2-3 smart moves but we could have been 2 years ahead by this stage, instead we are almost back to square one. At least we haven't managed to get rid of Cousins and Evans in the process so at least new ownership has some decent foundation to start with.

I'm man enough to admit when I'm horribly wrong. I wanted no part of Kobe Bryant or Peja coming out of college and was upset that we passed on John Wallace to nab Stojakovic. But it was obvious that we needed a starting SF that could defend and hit shots and Leonard looked like a perfect fit. Other than making a case for a new starting PG (Walker or Knight) or drafting a SG to play in the backcourt with Tyreke (Klay Thompson or Burks) the only other option was to gamble on Biyombo when we already had a shotblocker in Dalembert. To me Kawhi was a no brainer.

And I didn't think Drummond (pre injury) would show this many flashes this early, but at the very least he'd be a big bodied rebounder, shot blocker and defender that covered Cousins biggest weakness - that he's not a defensive anchor. Even stiffs that can do those things get $10 mil a year - why not grab one on the cheap by drafting him and score even bigger if he taps even a bit of his enormous potential?

Yeah, I can't let it go. They were both AWFUL drafts both for who we got and who we left on the table.

 

[Kingsguy881]

and real defense...

I would agree if Tyreke put forth real effort on that end. Consistently. And Thompson plays more defense than Jimmer and is worlds better than Salmons right now.

 

[Bricklayer]

That post made me depressed!

I feel you pain bro! We were SOOOO close to getting the roster set yet we blew it all up in one ****ing offseason! Beno-Reke-Thornton as a guard rotation. Leonard at the 3 and Dally-Cousins-JT as the big man rotations. Add Drummond as Dally's replacement and we are set at every freaking position.

Now we are almost back to square one. Mind you its still fixable with 2-3 smart moves but we could have been 2 years ahead by this stage, instead we are almost back to square one. At least we haven't managed to get rid of Cousins and Evans in the process so at least new ownership has some decent foundation to start with.

Don't forget that we tired to contact Kirilenkop that summer too but apparently weren't willing to meet his asking price.

Just sayin.

 

[funkykingston]

Imagine if we had drafted Curry instead of Tyreke, kept Martin, added Thornton, drafted Klay instead of Jimmer. Whoooo boy. With DMC in the fold, the only thing we would need is a REAL coach.

I think anyone looking at it objectively would say that Curry is clearly better than Tyreke. But that draft doesn't bother me. I was frustrated to see us drop to fourth in the lottery when the consensus was that it was a two player draft. I wasn't over the moon about him but I wanted Rubio. But Tyreke had a great year, Griffin was hurt and Rubio stayed in Europe. Sure we can say the Kings should have traded up to get Harden or taken Rubio or Curry but at the time I wasn't yelling at my TV over the Evans pick.

The Jimmer draft was a maddeningly frustrating fiasco and the Robinson pick was a clear case of a guy that (even if he reached his potential) was clearly not a good fit next to Cousins. In short, they were obvious whiffs at the time and not only when looking back. I was a staunch supporter of Geoff for so long that I forgave him for the terrible Salmons/Fredette deal but gave up on him completely last offseason. Maybe if he had money to play with and a full staff (and motivation) he'd still have the ability to build a team, but at this point my wish list for the Kings goes:

1. Mastrov/Burkle as owners
2. A new arena
3. A new GM

 

[ParniValjak]

Don't forget that we tired to contact Kirilenkop that summer too but apparently weren't willing to meet his asking price.

Just sayin.

And we didn't have more to give because we gave Chuck Hayes, our defensive anchor a 4 year deal at MLE money and when we had to rescind the contract because of his heart issues, we then threw in an extra million to re-sign him back burning Dalembert in the process too!

The saving grace in all this is that Beno and Dalembert are free agents this off-season and Kirilenko has an option to opt out of his contract with Minnesota. Play this smart and we could right a lot of wrongs this off-season but I am not holding my breath.

Even if we get new owners, it will take time before we can get the new front office and a new coach and by then, a lot of the free agent that we could use could very well be gone.

I am hoping that Mastrov group is already identifying the front office personnel and making contact with them about potential openings in the Kings front office. If we can pinch a big name GM from somewhere (eg R.C. Buford) then we could hit the ground running.

 

[ParniValjak]

I think anyone looking at it objectively would say that Curry is clearly better than Tyreke. But that draft doesn't bother me. I was frustrated to see us drop to fourth in the lottery when the consensus was that it was a two player draft. I wasn't over the moon about him but I wanted Rubio. But Tyreke had a great year, Griffin was hurt and Rubio stayed in Europe. Sure we can say the Kings should have traded up to get Harden or taken Rubio or Curry but at the time I wasn't yelling at my TV over the Evans pick.

The Jimmer draft was a maddeningly frustrating fiasco and the Robinson pick was a clear case of a guy that (even if he reached his potential) was clearly not a good fit next to Cousins. In short, they were obvious whiffs at the time and not only when looking back. I was a staunch supporter of Geoff for so long that I forgave him for the terrible Salmons/Fredette deal but gave up on him completely last offseason. Maybe if he had money to play with and a full staff (and motivation) he'd still have the ability to build a team, but at this point my wish list for the Kings goes:

1. Mastrov/Burkle as owners
2. A new arena
3. A new GM

I might get shot down in flames here but Curry is certainly assisted by the system he plays in. It is perfect for a player of his skillset and similar could be said about Klay Thompson.

Tyreke on the other hand is handicapped by the franchise and the system we are running. People will see this as making excuses for Tyreke but lets look at this objectively. Despite popular belief that kid has improved his game from his rookie season. He is a LOT better off the ball than he was as a rookie. His jump shot has also shown a significant improvement (albeit in the last 12 months) and he is better at seeing the floor. He is also a better defender than he was in his rookie year.

The progress has been there but it has not been obvious because of the way he is getting used by the coach. He is not getting anywhere near the number of touches that he should be, yet if you project his numbers to the minutes that he played as a rookie and he is still pretty much a 20/5/5 player but at a better efficiency. He is taking roughly 5 shots per game less (11.76)than he did as a rookie (16.18) and that is not taking into account the FTA. I've got no doubt that with a coach that has the ability to put his player in a position where they will succeed, that Tyreke will take his game to the whole new level and we would be comparing his to James Harden and debating who is a better player.

There is a real reason why great NBA organizations like Boston, Houston etc have shown interest in Tyreke. They know that he is an underutilized great talent that could explode under the tutelage of the right coach. I just wonder what type of players Evans and Cousins would be right now if they were coached by good coaches from the start. I just wonder what Adelman, Popovich, and even guys like Rivers and McMillan could have done with these 2 players. I have no doubt we would be now talking about them as the some of the brightest young stars of the NBA and genuine young all-stars. Instead we are magnifying their flaws and questioning their ability to be foundations of this franchise. Hopefully that will all change shortly!

 

[gunks]

I might get shot down in flames here but Curry is certainly assisted by the system he plays in. It is perfect for a player of his skillset and similar could be said about Klay Thompson.

Tyreke on the other hand is handicapped by the franchise and the system we are running. People will see this as making excuses for Tyreke but lets look at this objectively. Despite popular belief that kid has improved his game from his rookie season. He is a LOT better off the ball than he was as a rookie. His jump shot has also shown a significant improvement (albeit in the last 12 months) and he is better at seeing the floor. He is also a better defender than he was in his rookie year.

The progress has been there but it has not been obvious because of the way he is getting used by the coach. He is not getting anywhere near the number of touches that he should be, yet if you project his numbers to the minutes that he played as a rookie and he is still pretty much a 20/5/5 player but at a better efficiency. He is taking roughly 5 shots per game less (11.76)than he did as a rookie (16.18) and that is not taking into account the FTA. I've got no doubt that with a coach that has the ability to put his player in a position where they will succeed, that Tyreke will take his game to the whole new level and we would be comparing his to James Harden and debating who is a better player.

There is a real reason why great NBA organizations like Boston, Houston etc have shown interest in Tyreke. They know that he is an underutilized great talent that could explode under the tutelage of the right coach. I just wonder what type of players Evans and Cousins would be right now if they were coached by good coaches from the start. I just wonder what Adelman, Popovich, and even guys like Rivers and McMillan could have done with these 2 players. I have no doubt we would be now talking about them as the some of the brightest young stars of the NBA and genuine young all-stars. Instead we are magnifying their flaws and questioning their ability to be foundations of this franchise. Hopefully that will all change shortly!

This.

I hope that the new owners realize that Tyreke and Cousins should get some burn under a legit coach, and with a more thought out supporting cast around them, before they are given up on. It is maddening how **** our rebuild has been with Geoff "I stopped trying ten years ago" Petrie and the Magoofs at the helm.

 

[kupman]

Posting season averages for Jimmer losses the bigger picture with him - inconsistency. I have seem him play when he looks like a very strong piece for a team. Other nights he looks like he does not belong in the league. You miss this when looking at central tendency stats.

He is a good shooter. Perhaps in a more settled sitaution he would be a better shooter for us. I have also seen him be a very good passer as he seems to see the court very well compared to others guards on the team. His defense stinks and should never bring the ball up the court.

My best case scenerio for him: Vinnie Johnson

 

[bajaden]

More just being condescending in general to the notion that Jimmer is somehow a victim here and that his critics are just jerks who are rooting against a nice young man. It's a pervasive attitude around here, although maybe not your point. Seems to me Jimmer has far more support then he warrants and Bricks "picking" on Jimmer is actually more consistent with the reality of the situation.

Not arguing that Jimmer should be used off the ball. Not that you care, or should, but I talked about how that type role would be good for Jimmer since the day he was drafted. He was never going to be PG and the Stockton/Nash talk had more to do with peoples image of him, which includes race and persona, then his abilities. Not that we want to address that elephant, considering where that conversation could lead.

I wrote several posts using both Stockton and Nash as comparisons. And if you think for one moment that it was because all of them are white, then your are out of your f--King mind and frankly, it really pisses me off that you went there. Whether Jimmer becomes a PG in the NBA or not is still not decided, and just because you, in your all infinite wisdom says he'll never be a PG doesn't make it so. Its not up to you or me! Its up to Jimmer, and how much work he wants to put in. He may fail! Or not! But just to revisit what I said. I never said he would be the next Stockton or the next Nash. What I said was there were similarities between Jimmer and both of them in that they went to school that was in a smaller conference, and that both of them struggled their first few years in the NBA, so therefore, one should maintain patience to see if Jimmer can develop. It had nothing to do with anyone being white, black, pink or any other damm color. If you don't want to address that elephant, then don't do a drive by, take your shot, and move on.

 

[bajaden]

There's been a lot of comparison to JJ Redick. Just want to point out that Redick is around 6'-5" in shoes. Jimmer is 6'-2.5" in shoes. To put it in perspective, Redick is the same height as Tyreke and James Harden. Redick has enough size to play SG. Jimmer doesn't. The league has its share of 6'-5"-ish spot up shooters (Bob Sura, Craig Ehlo, etc) but I struggle to come up with another SG shorter than 6'3", unathletic, slow, spot up shooter who cannot play PG even in spot minutes. I guess Eddie House (and maybe Tony Delk?) come close but he can play some PG and is quick and athletic.

Point is, this is uncharted territory - undersized, slow, spot-up shooting SG usually don't crack the rotation (if they even make the league at all). Jimmer is the exception because he's just so dawn good at shooting from deep but I think he's hitting his ceiling as a SG. I don't see Jimmer as ever becoming as good as Redick, simply because of the size issue. But, I still hold out hope that he can somehow, some way, figure out the PG position (even just as a combo guard who can play PG in spurts).

If Jimmer is going to make it, it has to be as a PG. At 6'2" he's fine playing at the point, but not at SG. Lately even his shooting is suspect. But then Smart has the unique ability to bring out the worse in everyone. I've yet to see Jimmer play the same way he did at BYU. And I'm just refering to his aggressiveness. He seems to have lost it, and maybe his confidence as well.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

its really not even a discussion. Toney Douglas is leaps and bounds better than Jimmer in every categorie besides shooting. but Jimmer hasnt been fantastic at that lately either

 

[ESP47]

Whats with the whole "We coulda had Kawhi Leonard" stuff? People have been saying this for the last two seasons now. Who cares? We misssed out on Vucevic, Faried, Shumpert and Parsons in that draft too. That whole draft was horrible other than those guys, Kyrie and maybe Tristan Thompson. Based on stats alone, Isaiah Thomas is worth a top 10 pick in that draft.

We could go back to every draft with the whole woulda, shoulda, coulda thing. There's a reason why we suck and part of it is Geoff Petrie.

Lets go back 10 years, who are our actual good draft picks? Cousins, Martin and maybe Tyreke. Other than Thompson we've gotten basically nothing out of the last 10 years of draft picks.

 

[Elektrik]

And I personally need to stop thinking that what we should really have is Kawhi Leonard at the 3, Beno starting with Tyreke or being the 3rd guard off the bench and Dalembert at center as a pretty good stop gap until Andre Drummond is ready to be a starter. Sheesh.

...and We have Geoff Petrie to thank for what could have been but will never be.

 

[Npliam]

Whats with the whole "We coulda had Kawhi Leonard" stuff? People have been saying this for the last two seasons now. Who cares? We misssed out on Vucevic, Faried, Shumpert and Parsons in that draft too. That whole draft was horrible other than those guys, Kyrie and maybe Tristan Thompson. Based on stats alone, Isaiah Thomas is worth a top 10 pick in that draft.

We could go back to every draft with the whole woulda, shoulda, coulda thing. There's a reason why we suck and part of it is Geoff Petrie.

Lets go back 10 years, who are our actual good draft picks? Cousins, Martin and maybe Tyreke. Other than Thompson we've gotten basically nothing out of the last 10 years of draft picks.

That is pretty much par for the NBA. Go look back at almost any teams draft picks from the last 10 years and there will be very few players from those drafts that are still in the NBA.

 

[funkykingston]

Whats with the whole "We coulda had Kawhi Leonard" stuff? People have been saying this for the last two seasons now. Who cares? We misssed out on Vucevic, Faried, Shumpert and Parsons in that draft too. That whole draft was horrible other than those guys, Kyrie and maybe Tristan Thompson. Based on stats alone, Isaiah Thomas is worth a top 10 pick in that draft.

We could go back to every draft with the whole woulda, shoulda, coulda thing. There's a reason why we suck and part of it is Geoff Petrie.

Lets go back 10 years, who are our actual good draft picks? Cousins, Martin and maybe Tyreke. Other than Thompson we've gotten basically nothing out of the last 10 years of draft picks.

Why the harping on the draft missed? Because historically that was always one of Petrie's saving graces. Outside of Webber, no risky or blockbuster trades, eschewing bold moves for low risk smaller deals and virtually no movement in the draft, preferring to just stay put and take the best player. Peja, Brian Grant, Corliss, TAW, JWill, Hido, Gerald Wallace, KMart, Tyreke, DMC. Petrie hasn't been perfect but he didn't miss this badly. Sure Douby was a scrub but he wasn't wasting #7 and #5 picks on him.

The last couple years we knew the Maloofs lacked the money to improve the team through free agency and the Kings needed to hit on the draft to improve. And not only did they fail at that but they traded away solid role players in the process.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Jimmer is NEVER going to a be a star player, and everyone knows that. With the right coach and a system that makes sense, however, he can be a deadly offensive weapon... the kind of shooter that creates momentum or stops opponent streaks. A guy you can put in at the end of games to make 3 point attempts or to draw defenders away. Put the right players around him that can make up for his defensive deficiencies and he could be special. Guys with his shooting ability don't come around every day. When you have a coach who is stupid enough to put him out there with players like chuck hayes and marcus thorton as well as making him a primary ball handler he is going to fail.

completely agree. defensive sf, reke and him on the wings.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

That's a good point that I failed to mention when talking about Redick guarding Ray Allen. But that's why I think you play Jimmer with Tyreke, and have Tyreke be the primary ball handler. Jimmer acts as the SG but will probably have a shorter guy guarding him as their SG guards Evans

that is a mutual beneficial pairing. jimmer won't be taking shots from reke like IT and will space the floor for both reke/cuz to work.