Free Agency has started !!

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
Aaron Bruski ‏@aaronbruski
RT @WiessD: Source: After speaking w/ Kobe & Nash and liking what he heard, Howard has told the Lakers he'll sign contract extension w/ them


You have to be kidding me. Don't think we're winning the Pacific Div next year guys. Glad we had the lockout, seems small markets are all the better for it...
 
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Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Aaron Bruski ‏@aaronbruski
RT @WiessD: Source: After speaking w/ Kobe & Nash and liking what he heard, Howard has told the Lakers he'll sign contract extension w/ them


You have to be kidding me. Don't think we're winning the Pacific Div next year guys. Glad we had the lockout, seems small markets are all the better for it...
This is Dwight Howard we're talking about, he'll probably change his mind by tomorrow morning.
 
Not sure we can be that picky. Unless we mean as a full time starter. That doesn't work. But Korver is an obvious choice as a rotation guy who could add some seriosu shooting to a team without a single dependable guy form out there.
If IT comes off the bench I was wanting a guy like Novak. If we don't have a decent PG off the bench then I wouldn't want Novak. Pretty much the same deal as Korver but Novak is a better 3pt shooter.
 
Aaron Bruski ‏@aaronbruski
RT @WiessD: Source: After speaking w/ Kobe & Nash and liking what he heard, Howard has told the Lakers he'll sign contract extension w/ them


You have to be kidding me. Don't think we're winning the Pacific Div next year guys. Glad we had the lockout, seems small markets are all the better for it...
Once upon a time we were better than young Kobe and prime Shaq.... so i know its possible to be better than old Kobe and prime Dwight.
 
Lowry traded to the Raptors for a future first rounder, Lin agrees to 38mil/4year contract with Rockets (NYK likely to match?), Kidd signs with Knicks, Twolves probably getting Roy and Batum.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Lowry traded to the Raptors for a future first rounder, Lin agrees to 38mil/4year contract with Rockets (NYK likely to match?), Kidd signs with Knicks, Twolves probably getting Roy and Batum.


We'll see on Batum. Hoping Portland sticks to its guns there. Lots of teams say they will, but they always cave.
 
The Wolves offseason really makes me mad. It proves that if we had real owners, owners willing to spend, a decent front office and a true desire to get better, we would be able to attract some free agents. Don't tell me that Minneapolis is a more attractive destination than Sacramento. It's Minnesota, and we are talking about California here. But, given our owners and our "project", it's almost impossible for us to be attractive for FAs.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
The Wolves offseason really makes me mad. It proves that if we had real owners, owners willing to spend, a decent front office and a true desire to get better, we would be able to attract some free agents. Don't tell me that Minneapolis is a more attractive destination than Sacramento. It's Minnesota, and we are talking about California here. But, given our owners and our "project", it's almost impossible for us to be attractive for FAs.
Minnesota has a better tax rate. Plus that team has an established coach with an established system and one of the top 3 big men in the NBA today. The big spending's also going to come back and bite Minni in the *** in a few years with Love's salary increasing and the eventual need to pay Rubio, Pekovic, and D-Will.
 
The Wolves offseason really makes me mad. It proves that if we had real owners, owners willing to spend, a decent front office and a true desire to get better, we would be able to attract some free agents. Don't tell me that Minneapolis is a more attractive destination than Sacramento. It's Minnesota, and we are talking about California here. But, given our owners and our "project", it's almost impossible for us to be attractive for FAs.
I feel the same way...
 
Minnesota has a better tax rate. Plus that team has an established coach with an established system and one of the top 3 big men in the NBA today. The big spending's also going to come back and bite Minni in the *** in a few years with Love's salary increasing and the eventual need to pay Rubio, Pekovic, and D-Will.
Yes, it's exactly what I was saying. Established coach, good system, good FO. Exactly what we need, because I believe we have one of the best big man in the league already... I don't think the tax rate is so important, other Californian teams attract free agents. And I agree with you, they will have to hit the luxory tax in the next years to keep Love and Rubio, but at least they have a true shot at keeping them. If we keep winning 20/25 games each year, do you think it will be much easier for us to re-sign Cuz? We need to start winning, to get better and show improvements. Our salary cap space is absolutely useless right now.
If we had a good FO, we would give Kirilenko 27million/3yrs and bring JT back. it's not going to happen though.
 
Not sure we can be that picky. Unless we mean as a full time starter. That doesn't work. But Korver is an obvious choice as a rotation guy who could add some seriosu shooting to a team without a single dependable guy form out there.
Not sure if CHI picked up the team option but if they did he is set to make $5million next season and if he is a FA that is the sort of money he would be looking at. Not sure he is worth that much but no doubt he would improve the perimeter shooting.
 

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
The Wolves offseason really makes me mad. It proves that if we had real owners, owners willing to spend, a decent front office and a true desire to get better, we would be able to attract some free agents.
Well, it's interesting that apparently the Portland front office is mad at Minnesota for what they consider to be deliberately driving up the price of Batum. Why do they say that? I'm guessing it's because Minnesota is announcing the pre-signing of both Batum and Roy simultaneously, when they don't have the cap space to make both signings. Sure, they have the ability to clear the space by amnestying Darko, but naturally they won't do that unless they must. They'll give Batum the offer sheet, but not give a contract to Roy until Portland matches. That way they sign Roy with their available cap space, say that they tried and perhaps call it an offseason. Batum may be nothing more than a carrot they're dangling in front of their fanbase - the Portland FO sure seems to think so.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That's interesting on a number of levels. Interesting good. Interesting bad. Interesting that Philly would be willing to take a big chunk out of its frontline after their playoff run. Wonder what their plans are? Are they in full rebuild? Does that mean Iggy is back in play? Could it actually mean they would chase local boy JT to pair with Hawes, just as somebody said in Kings throwback mode? Interesting as a possibility for us....not that 6'8" is exactly adding frontline length. But he has had a knack for shotblocking, and is coming from a serious defensive system. Thing is, would you be willing to lose JT long term just to sing a 33yr old in steep decline for 1 year? I wouldn't. And yet scooping up fallen apples has been Petrie's M.O. for most of the decade, perhaps in response to owner brokeness, but even before then. Jim Jackson was a fallen apple. So too Keon. Shareef. Salmons. Beno. Outlaw. Somebody gets released or a contract falls through Geoff is always there with a contract and a smile on his face holding out a pen.
 
That's interesting on a number of levels. Interesting good. Interesting bad. Interesting that Philly would be willing to take a big chunk out of its frontline after their playoff run. Wonder what their plans are? Are they in full rebuild? Does that mean Iggy is back in play? Could it actually mean they would chase local boy JT to pair with Hawes, just as somebody said in Kings throwback mode? Interesting as a possibility for us....not that 6'8" is exactly adding frontline length. But he has had a knack for shotblocking, and is coming from a serious defensive system. Thing is, would you be willing to lose JT long term just to sing a 33yr old in steep decline for 1 year? I wouldn't. And yet scooping up fallen apples has been Petrie's M.O. for most of the decade, perhaps in response to owner brokeness, but even before then. Jim Jackson was a fallen apple. So too Keon. Shareef. Salmons. Beno. Outlaw. Somebody gets released or a contract falls through Geoff is always there with a contract and a smile on his face holding out a pen.
i agree that i wouldnt risk losing jt for a short term declining brand, but if we are already going to lose jt, was well as other options like anderson, i would take brand as a stop gap to let trob adjust as well as learn under a good pf.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Well, it's interesting that apparently the Portland front office is mad at Minnesota for what they consider to be deliberately driving up the price of Batum. Why do they say that? I'm guessing it's because Minnesota is announcing the pre-signing of both Batum and Roy simultaneously, when they don't have the cap space to make both signings. Sure, they have the ability to clear the space by amnestying Darko, but naturally they won't do that unless they must. They'll give Batum the offer sheet, but not give a contract to Roy until Portland matches. That way they sign Roy with their available cap space, say that they tried and perhaps call it an offseason. Batum may be nothing more than a carrot they're dangling in front of their fanbase - the Portland FO sure seems to think so.
I've been sitting here trying to figure out just How the T Wolves are able to make some of these offers. I had them at $54,463,457.00 total salaries, without counting Brad Millers salary, which is non guaranteed, although I don't know if they've relenquished their rights to him. In any event, at 54.4 mil, they only have around 3.5 mil to work with give or take a mil one way or the other. So how can they be allowed to make outrageous offers that they can't keep. Even if they amnesty Darko, they wouldn't have enough left under the cap to cover both those salaries. They've offered Roy around 5 mil and Batum around 12.5 mil. Some of it has to be smoke and mirrors. I can certainly understand why Portland is angry.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
That's interesting on a number of levels. Interesting good. Interesting bad. Interesting that Philly would be willing to take a big chunk out of its frontline after their playoff run. Wonder what their plans are? Are they in full rebuild? Does that mean Iggy is back in play? Could it actually mean they would chase local boy JT to pair with Hawes, just as somebody said in Kings throwback mode? Interesting as a possibility for us....not that 6'8" is exactly adding frontline length. But he has had a knack for shotblocking, and is coming from a serious defensive system. Thing is, would you be willing to lose JT long term just to sing a 33yr old in steep decline for 1 year? I wouldn't. And yet scooping up fallen apples has been Petrie's M.O. for most of the decade, perhaps in response to owner brokeness, but even before then. Jim Jackson was a fallen apple. So too Keon. Shareef. Salmons. Beno. Outlaw. Somebody gets released or a contract falls through Geoff is always there with a contract and a smile on his face holding out a pen.
Some of those fallen apples have been quite tasty. The hard part is separating the rotten one's from the good one's. If you could get Brand cheap enough, then fine. But I wouldn't pay an arm and a leg at the expense of either keeping JT or signing another young PF. He would add some veteran experience, but he is on the dark side of his career.
 
You should stop using hoopshype.com. :)
Wolves have $58.9 million in team salary but $10.8 of those are tied in two non-guaranteed contracts (not team options) of Miller and Webster. Their agreement with Batum is still virtual until July, 11th. If salary cap will move up a bit, Wolves will be able to sign Batum to 4-year offer sheet with $10.5 million starting salary after waiving Miller and Webster. Agreement with Roy came later and that's when news of Portland matching any Batum offer sheet and refusing any SnT appeared. To get Batum AND Roy Wolves have to do SnT with Portland.
 
You should stop using hoopshype.com. :)
Wolves have $58.9 million in team salary but $10.8 of those are tied in two non-guaranteed contracts (not team options) of Miller and Webster. Their agreement with Batum is still virtual until July, 11th. If salary cap will move up a bit, Wolves will be able to sign Batum to 4-year offer sheet with $10.5 million starting salary after waiving Miller and Webster. Agreement with Roy came later and that's when news of Portland matching any Batum offer sheet and refusing any SnT appeared. To get Batum AND Roy Wolves have to do SnT with Portland.
I think I read somewhere that they will sign batum, then use the mle on Roy. Correct me if I'm wrong but teams can use the mle once they reach the cap? I thought that was how they planned on getting both.
 
No, the moment you use cap space to sign a player you can only go over the cap by an amount of "ROOM MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION" which will be $2,575,000 for this upcoming season. Roy's agreement is reported at $10.4 million over 2 years so starting at $5.09 million.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
You should stop using hoopshype.com. :)
Wolves have $58.9 million in team salary but $10.8 of those are tied in two non-guaranteed contracts (not team options) of Miller and Webster. Their agreement with Batum is still virtual until July, 11th. If salary cap will move up a bit, Wolves will be able to sign Batum to 4-year offer sheet with $10.5 million starting salary after waiving Miller and Webster. Agreement with Roy came later and that's when news of Portland matching any Batum offer sheet and refusing any SnT appeared. To get Batum AND Roy Wolves have to do SnT with Portland.
Problem is that they started by offering him 12 mill a season.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
You should stop using hoopshype.com. :)
Wolves have $58.9 million in team salary but $10.8 of those are tied in two non-guaranteed contracts (not team options) of Miller and Webster. Their agreement with Batum is still virtual until July, 11th. If salary cap will move up a bit, Wolves will be able to sign Batum to 4-year offer sheet with $10.5 million starting salary after waiving Miller and Webster. Agreement with Roy came later and that's when news of Portland matching any Batum offer sheet and refusing any SnT appeared. To get Batum AND Roy Wolves have to do SnT with Portland.
Actually, I used Hoopsworld for that info, which didn't show Webster as a non-guaranteed contract. It did show Miller. I just went to Shamsports, which is who I usually use, and they did show Webster as a non-guaranteed contract, so your right in that regard. So after re-adding up the contracts, I have them at $47,162,651.00 total salaries. If Batum signs the offer sheet, and its backloaded, that would add about 10 mil onto their total salaries bringing them to 57.1 mil. If the cap is the same as last year, around 58 mil, then how do they offer Roy 5 mil a year? That would take them over the cap and you can't use your mid-level if your under the cap, and, you can't start out under the cap, and then go over the cap to use the mid-level. Now I suspose they could amnesty Darko. The only other option would be a sign and trade with Portand for Batum, and I say good luck with that one.

Now maybe I'm missing something here, but if not, isn't there some sort of rule that you can't make offers, that if accepted, would put you over the cap. Of course I know all these deals have to be authrorized by the league come july 11th, and could be ruled illegal at that time. Since they tried to include Webster in a trade, I have to assume that they haven't relequished his rights yet. I believe the Amnesty period is coming up aroung july 11th as well, and only runs for about a week or so. It'll be nice when the smoke clears and we have a better idea of whats real and whats not.

If my figures are correct, and the offer to Roy is 5 mil a year, then the cap would have to increase dramaticly for them to squeeze him in.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Actually, I used Hoopsworld for that info, which didn't show Webster as a non-guaranteed contract. It did show Miller. I just went to Shamsports, which is who I usually use, and they did show Webster as a non-guaranteed contract, so your right in that regard. So after re-adding up the contracts, I have them at $47,162,651.00 total salaries. If Batum signs the offer sheet, and its backloaded, that would add about 10 mil onto their total salaries bringing them to 57.1 mil. If the cap is the same as last year, around 58 mil, then how do they offer Roy 5 mil a year? That would take them over the cap and you can't use your mid-level if your under the cap, and, you can't start out under the cap, and then go over the cap to use the mid-level. Now I suspose they could amnesty Darko. The only other option would be a sign and trade with Portand for Batum, and I say good luck with that one.

Now maybe I'm missing something here, but if not, isn't there some sort of rule that you can't make offers, that if accepted, would put you over the cap. Of course I know all these deals have to be authrorized by the league come july 11th, and could be ruled illegal at that time. Since they tried to include Webster in a trade, I have to assume that they haven't relequished his rights yet. I believe the Amnesty period is coming up aroung july 11th as well, and only runs for about a week or so. It'll be nice when the smoke clears and we have a better idea of whats real and whats not.

If my figures are correct, and the offer to Roy is 5 mil a year, then the cap would have to increase dramaticly for them to squeeze him in.

Its being reported elsewhere that the plan is to amnesty Darko if they get caught into paying both contracts. Don't know how that works legally, but apparently it does. Also apparently why Portland is pissed at them for overleveraging themselves.
 
No, the moment you use cap space to sign a player you can only go over the cap by an amount of "ROOM MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION" which will be $2,575,000 for this upcoming season. Roy's agreement is reported at $10.4 million over 2 years so starting at $5.09 million.
the report i saw about roy and the mle was from twitter
Jerry Zgoda: Earliest Wolves can officially sign and introduce BRoy is 7/11, but could be later than that if they need other signings to fit BRoy as MLE

new mle

2011 CBA: For non-taxpaying teams, four years starting at $5 million (base salary grows by 3 percent annually beginning in 2013-14), with 4.5 percent raises. Taxpaying teams are limited to three years, a $3 million base salary (which grows by 3 percent annually beginning in 2013-14) and 4.5 percent raises. Teams with cap room (therefore losing their midlevel exception) get a new midlevel that is for two years and starts at $2.5 million (growing 3 percent annually).

how i read it is minny is not over the luxury tax and if they get over the salary cap, they will get the 5 million mle. so after signing batum. they might make smaller moves that get them to the cap then have the ability to use the mle
 
You read it wrong.
Quote from Coon's CBA FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com):
A team can't act like it's under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or trade exceptions.
"new midlevel" you described is called "Room Mid-Level" and it will be available to Minny if Batum signs the reported offer sheet and Blazers don't match.
Darko is set to make $5,228,000 this season so his amnesty will create cap space needed to sign Roy.
 

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
Teams with cap room (therefore losing their midlevel exception) get a new midlevel that is for two years and starts at $2.5 million (growing 3 percent annually).

how i read it is minny is not over the luxury tax and if they get over the salary cap, they will get the 5 million mle. so after signing batum. they might make smaller moves that get them to the cap then have the ability to use the mle
No. I have bolded the relevant bit above. Because the T'Wolves started out this free agency period with cap room, they do not get the full MLE. They will have access to the "Room MLE" described above, which is approximately half the size of the standard MLE, if they spend up to the cap. However, the reported contract with Brandon Roy is twice the size of the Room MLE, so they would have to make other moves, most likely amnestying Darko, to make the cap room to sign Roy to that deal. They cannot in any way, shape, or form have access to a full MLE this season.