It's early, but anybody have a draft wish list yet?
- Thread starter bluntsnbball
- Start date
Some turned out to be true, and some didn't. No one on this fourm argued for drafting Cousins than I did. And I can almost guarantee you that every team in the NBA would love to have Cousins on their team right now. I pointed oul many of the falsehoods about Cousins in college. I even posted video that disproved some of the accusations. So I'm not going to go back and relive that again. A lot of what happened while he was on the Kings was Westphal related. Now you can choose to believe Westphal if you want. I don't. What happened between Cousins and Westphal is exactly what happened at every stop Westphal made prior, to coaching the Kings.
Now I understand your point as to why Cousins dropped. And In my opinion, only one team made a major mstake, and that was Minny. I loved Turner, and still do, and I can understand a team taking him over Cousins at the time. Ditto Wall and Favors. The only player I might have taken over Cousins was Wall. But thats just me. We needed a big, and without a doubt, Cousins was the best big in the draft. Cousins is on his way to being everything I thought he would be. So I'll toot my horn a little. But I could have just as easily been wrong. There are no guarantee's. Just your best educated guess.
Now I understand your point as to why Cousins dropped. And In my opinion, only one team made a major mstake, and that was Minny. I loved Turner, and still do, and I can understand a team taking him over Cousins at the time. Ditto Wall and Favors. The only player I might have taken over Cousins was Wall. But thats just me. We needed a big, and without a doubt, Cousins was the best big in the draft. Cousins is on his way to being everything I thought he would be. So I'll toot my horn a little. But I could have just as easily been wrong. There are no guarantee's. Just your best educated guess.
For Beal to be the best player available, we would have to be picking somewhere in the bottom half of the top ten. There are quite a few players that I would consider being of equal value, but play different positions. So when I made that statement, it was with that in mind. I've always been a BPA guy. You never draft for need, unless you believe your choices have equal value. Of course your getting into subjective decisions. Obviously I see many of these players in an entirely different light than Vlade does. But thats what makes the world go around.
By the way, just for Vlade. If you had watched every game Davis played, which only an idiot like me does, you'd know he has much more of an offensive game than you think. I watched him score 12 point in four minutes in one game, and never used the same offensive move more than once. He has a hook shot with his right, and his left hand. He has several post moves that he uses with a very good dropstep. He also has a very nice jumpshot all the way out to the three pt line.
The thing is, he seldom showed off his offense. As long as his teammates were scoring, he was happy to defend, rebound, and just pick up the garbage around the basket with the occasional alley opp.
By the way, just for Vlade. If you had watched every game Davis played, which only an idiot like me does, you'd know he has much more of an offensive game than you think. I watched him score 12 point in four minutes in one game, and never used the same offensive move more than once. He has a hook shot with his right, and his left hand. He has several post moves that he uses with a very good dropstep. He also has a very nice jumpshot all the way out to the three pt line.
The thing is, he seldom showed off his offense. As long as his teammates were scoring, he was happy to defend, rebound, and just pick up the garbage around the basket with the occasional alley opp.
For lack of a better description, yes. There are times he tends to disappear in games. He lacks aggression at times. What we don't know, is how are they asking him to play. Lets put it this way. At the start of the season, if you looked at Drummond and Davis on paper, you'd probably pick Drummond to have the spectacular year. He's bigger, a little taller, appears stronger, and seems to be as athletic. It would appear a slam dunk. But the opposite happened. And when you also factor in, that Davis played on a star heavy team, where you really had to shine, to shine, it should have been easier for Drummond to stand out.
No one doubts his abilities. But they doubt his desire. Despite all the baggage that came with Cousins, deserved or not, no one doubted his desire. No one had to light a fire under him. Thats the big question with Drummond. If the motor suddenly turns on, you might have a superstar on your hands. Perfect definition of high risk, high reward.
No one doubts his abilities. But they doubt his desire. Despite all the baggage that came with Cousins, deserved or not, no one doubted his desire. No one had to light a fire under him. Thats the big question with Drummond. If the motor suddenly turns on, you might have a superstar on your hands. Perfect definition of high risk, high reward.
Let me add what I know or think I know. I have seen it written and it is supported by what I have seen is that he seldom demands the ball. He almost goes into hiding. He does not present himself for the ball. This I believe is what bajaden means when he says he disappears. It is almost as if he consciously disappears. One could speculate as to the "why." Perhaps he is afraid to fail. I don't know and in a sense I don't care. It is a bad trait. And then there is the free throw percentage of 30%. This percentage is unheard of. Oh, I suppose someone else has shot this percentage but not that I remember offhand. It may reflect a lack of desire and it may reflect a lack of skill. In any case, he is the anti-Cousins. That scares the hell out of me and I would not draft him. Absoluitely not.
Smart has said, and it is one thing I totally agree with, that he would rather calm a player down who has excessive fire than to try to build a fire under someone. It may not even be possible to build that fire. His immense athletic skills are of little consequence if he is unwilling to use them.
He is the kind of guy I'd love to chat with but I am afraid I would find very little to get excited about which makes him the anti-Cousins also.
Smart has said, and it is one thing I totally agree with, that he would rather calm a player down who has excessive fire than to try to build a fire under someone. It may not even be possible to build that fire. His immense athletic skills are of little consequence if he is unwilling to use them.
He is the kind of guy I'd love to chat with but I am afraid I would find very little to get excited about which makes him the anti-Cousins also.
Boy Gilles, you and I agree on a lot of things, but I watched Drummond play in every televised game that was on, and believe me, I wanted to like this kid. But except for a few games, he disappointed me. There were games where he had zero impact. I can't for the life of me think of one game, where Davis didn't have some impact on the game. When I started the season, I started out higher on Drummond than I did Davis. And setting aside that Drummond didn't play in the first, I believe 7 games, there was simply no comparison between the two. Davis just blew me away.
The one area where Drummond has an advantage going into the NBA, if he declares, is his ability to man defend in the post. He has tremendous size, length, and strength to body up to just about anyone. As I said, I'm not denyinig his abilities. Its his lack of aggression that bothers me. My judgements have nothing to do with stats. They have everything to do with what I see with my own eyes. There were games where I thought Gilchrist was the difference maker. And later when I looked at the stats, he only had 8 pts. But he was all over the court like the energizer bunny just generally disrupting the other team. I simply didn't see that from Drummond on a consistent basis. And thats what bothers me.
However, if we end up picking around sixth, I'll probably be praying that he slides down to us.
The one area where Drummond has an advantage going into the NBA, if he declares, is his ability to man defend in the post. He has tremendous size, length, and strength to body up to just about anyone. As I said, I'm not denyinig his abilities. Its his lack of aggression that bothers me. My judgements have nothing to do with stats. They have everything to do with what I see with my own eyes. There were games where I thought Gilchrist was the difference maker. And later when I looked at the stats, he only had 8 pts. But he was all over the court like the energizer bunny just generally disrupting the other team. I simply didn't see that from Drummond on a consistent basis. And thats what bothers me.
However, if we end up picking around sixth, I'll probably be praying that he slides down to us.
Desire is a hard thing to mature into. Or to coach. The thing about Cousins that you always hear is that you don't have him to get him ready to play. He may do a lot of brain-dead stuff, but he definitely has fire in the belly. Smart has alluded to that fact. Methinks the Kings wouldn't go down this path with Drummond.
Just re-watched West Virginia-Connecticut game: Drummond was running around perimeter chasing Kevin Jones who btw is gonna be rich man's Channing Frye, one time Drummond was late he was yanked immediately. Drummond tries to box out every time he just doesn't know how to do it properly yet. Now to passivity, he was waving his arm the whole first half because he was easily establishing and holding position. Napier and Boatright just looked the other way. By the second half he decided not to waste energy with all the waving.
Never really looked at Lamb's stats but he's shooting 60% on 2-point shots. Considering he doesn't get much at the rim his jumpshot is ridiculous. He's really weak and light though so NBA physical training can probably change the way he's playing because right now he's thrown like rag doll by every screen and can't really finish through contact.
Never really looked at Lamb's stats but he's shooting 60% on 2-point shots. Considering he doesn't get much at the rim his jumpshot is ridiculous. He's really weak and light though so NBA physical training can probably change the way he's playing because right now he's thrown like rag doll by every screen and can't really finish through contact.
In a nutshell, you sort of summed up Drummond. Your absolutely right. He wasn't the focus of UCONN's offense. Rightly or wrongly. I thought all year long that Napier thought of himself as the second cominig of Kemba Walker, and tried to take over and win games himself. No doubt that hurt Drummond to some extent. However, thats when he appeared to be disinterested at times. He did the same thing in highschool. It was sort of, if you not going to include me, then I'll quit participating. As I said, he had him moments, and those moments are what keeps me interested in him.
Early in the year, he put up in 37 minutes, 12 pts, 10 rebounds, and 7 blocked shots against a very good Florida St. team. But then a few games later, he put up in 36 minutes, 4 pts, 7 rebounds, and 1 blocked shot, against an inferior Southern Florida team. Yeah, he could have just had a bad game, but this was his pattern throughout the year. His final 5 game stats were 8.4 PPG, 3.4 BPG, and 5.4 RPG. Not horrible, but not impressive for a player projected to go top two in many polls.
I guess its his lack of consistency that bothers me. And I'm not sure its all his fault, but it is what it is. I'd like to see him get another year of college, but with UCONN banned from tournament competition, I really doubt he'll stay another year.
Your right about Lamb needing to add strength. But he is good a getting to the basket. He's also a terrific defender on the perimeter. He has good size and length for the SG position. But he difinitely needs to add some muscle to his frame.
Early in the year, he put up in 37 minutes, 12 pts, 10 rebounds, and 7 blocked shots against a very good Florida St. team. But then a few games later, he put up in 36 minutes, 4 pts, 7 rebounds, and 1 blocked shot, against an inferior Southern Florida team. Yeah, he could have just had a bad game, but this was his pattern throughout the year. His final 5 game stats were 8.4 PPG, 3.4 BPG, and 5.4 RPG. Not horrible, but not impressive for a player projected to go top two in many polls.
I guess its his lack of consistency that bothers me. And I'm not sure its all his fault, but it is what it is. I'd like to see him get another year of college, but with UCONN banned from tournament competition, I really doubt he'll stay another year.
Your right about Lamb needing to add strength. But he is good a getting to the basket. He's also a terrific defender on the perimeter. He has good size and length for the SG position. But he difinitely needs to add some muscle to his frame.
I think people are spoiled by LeBron, Amare, Dwight, Durant, Rose and some others who were dominating while still on rookie deals. It seems like you eitherdo it right away or you're a bust. Well, Drummond's a freshman and he shows a lot of good signs and only one true hole in FTs. Would be nice if he shot 70% from charity stripe but it's not unreasonable to expect him to get at least to 50-55% where it will be a flaw rather than a glaring hole.
P.S. He's a freshman.
P.S. He's a freshman.
Drummond can be called many things - physical specimen, freak of nature, superman even; but one thing you can't call him is a basketball player. I'm sorry but he's only pretending to be one. He has no offense outside of dunks and layups, and by that I mean exactly that. You figured a 6'10 guy would have at least some kind of half hook, right? Nope. I saw him airballed a five-foot turnaround. One time he hit a 12 foot jumper and the entire building was shocked. Even the annoncer couldn't hide his surprise, he sounded like he just witnessed a Jimmer Fredette alley hoop dunk. That FT% is not a flute, btw. He is that bad.
Yes, his teammates ignored him... all the time! And frankly you can't blame them. Drummond has no business posting up, or attempting any shot outside of two feet. Even if he gets fouled he can't hit the freebies, so what's the point?
Offensively, he's in the same company as Ben Wallace and Andris Biedrins.
When you're that inept offensively, you better be Ben Wallace like defensively. That's where it gets murky - he has all the tools to be that defensive stud and at times he had shown that, but he doesn't bring it every game. Up and down, down and up. 14 and 12 one game followed by 7 and 5. So you have to wonder, what's going on there? Is it a desire thing? Is it just a learning curve? Is he another Kwame Brown? Is all that potential just a tease?
I generally try not to think about Drummond because it involves getting inside his head and I'm not a shrink and don't want to play one.
But if I have his ears I'd tell him to go back to school. If there's one guy who should go back it's Drummond.
However, if the Kings is stuck with, say, a #10 pick and the choice is between Drummond, John Henson and Tyler Zeller, I would have no problem with rolling the dice on Drummond. Having said that, would I be surprised if some GM picking in the top five falls in love with Drummond? Not at all. I wouldn't take that gamble with a high pick, but that's just me.
Last edited:
I agree with you on his going back to school. But as I said, the problem is that UCONN is under suspension, so the big carrot is gone. I suspect that just about everyone on that team that has a chance to play in the NBA is going to declare. Now he could transfer, and I think without penalty because of the circumstances, and maybe that would be the best route for him to take.
Your a little harsher on him than I would be, but no matter how you cut it, he lacks consistency, and in just about every area. I remember watching him play in the Adidas nations games. He just wasn't there mentally in the first half, and he got benched. Second half, he came out and just dominated the game. So which half is he? I think up to now, he's been able to dominate everyone he faced because of his size and athleticism. Suddenly, its not so easy, and he hasn't developed or refined the proper skills to compensate on a nightly basis. Doesn't mean he can't though.
I don't know what he work ethic is like. But if he wants to be a great player, he needs to work his butt off. No one just waves a magic wand and it happens.
Your a little harsher on him than I would be, but no matter how you cut it, he lacks consistency, and in just about every area. I remember watching him play in the Adidas nations games. He just wasn't there mentally in the first half, and he got benched. Second half, he came out and just dominated the game. So which half is he? I think up to now, he's been able to dominate everyone he faced because of his size and athleticism. Suddenly, its not so easy, and he hasn't developed or refined the proper skills to compensate on a nightly basis. Doesn't mean he can't though.
I don't know what he work ethic is like. But if he wants to be a great player, he needs to work his butt off. No one just waves a magic wand and it happens.
baja, I don't think you develop drive. You have it or don't or of course all the places in between. Experiments have been done that point in this direction. If there is no magic wand, don't expect him to be everything he can be. As to the #10 selection, I don't know what I would do with that pick given the scenario presented. I might pick Tyler Zeller for someone else in a trade as I suspect he is BPA at that point. I think Drummond is a huge risk and the teams that draft him high, if that's the way it turns out, are the teams desparate for a franchise player and might really regret it.
Drummand is alergic to contact as a 6'10-6'11 260lbs PF\C. No thank you. when I watch him I get the feeling he's a 15 year old moreso then 18-19.
This kid is gonna get an unlucky GM fired if he gets picked as high as 2-3 due to him being a genetic lottery winner but not having basically anything else to show for.
DeAndre Jordan-esque, just that DeAndre actually fell to a 2nd round player after he was projected as a top 2-3 pick early and during the college season.
This kid is gonna get an unlucky GM fired if he gets picked as high as 2-3 due to him being a genetic lottery winner but not having basically anything else to show for.
DeAndre Jordan-esque, just that DeAndre actually fell to a 2nd round player after he was projected as a top 2-3 pick early and during the college season.
Last edited:
read today that Drummond is torn between leaving for the pro's or staying in school. interesting b/c everyone said there was no way he'd stay. maybe he does care about improving upon his dissapointing season?
my bottom line, if we were to pick him up, id believe in him. I believe in Petrie's drafting eye, but that being said i dont think this is a Petrie kind of guy. Too raw for this team.
im praying that this is the year where we finally get a good draft pick and w/ all the BS surrounding the stadium and whatnot, im hopeing that the draft really is rigged and that Stern throws us a bone for once. But if that doesnt happen, im all about henson. i think he would be a pretty damn good compliment to Cousins and if Hassan ever gets his s*** together, him and henson combined should be a defensive force, which this team could definitely use.
my bottom line, if we were to pick him up, id believe in him. I believe in Petrie's drafting eye, but that being said i dont think this is a Petrie kind of guy. Too raw for this team.
im praying that this is the year where we finally get a good draft pick and w/ all the BS surrounding the stadium and whatnot, im hopeing that the draft really is rigged and that Stern throws us a bone for once. But if that doesnt happen, im all about henson. i think he would be a pretty damn good compliment to Cousins and if Hassan ever gets his s*** together, him and henson combined should be a defensive force, which this team could definitely use.
A lot of guys still havn't declared. NCAA moving withdrawl date made them utterly irrelevant so you have to wait till April the 28th or 30th or whatever NBA early entry date is. What I find interesting is Drummond has no stable shot mechanic as it disintegrated towards the end of the season so you can take the best shooting coach and start from scratch.
If Royce White falls to the 2nd round, I'll give that kid a very hard look.
We could be the best team in the league to therapy his anxiety issue.
We've tamed Artest, Bonzi, Cousins, and even Hassan's rumored ADHD.
General anxiety should be a piece of cake in cowbell kingdom.
We could be the best team in the league to therapy his anxiety issue.
We've tamed Artest, Bonzi, Cousins, and even Hassan's rumored ADHD.
General anxiety should be a piece of cake in cowbell kingdom.