Fire Smart

iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#31
#31
This is the Sloan quote, although not much can be taken from it

"They can go one of two ways here - give the job to assistant Keith Smart on an interim basis for the remainder of the season or try to make a big strike with one of the established coaches available. The list of the latter is fairly impressive: Jerry Sloan, Larry Brown, Don Nelson and Phil Jackson, though it sounds like Phil wants to take off a year. Sloan would seem like an obvious choice here. I am hearing he wants to coach again, likes some of the Kings' talent, and likes coaching in small markets."
 
kingsnation

kingsnation

All-Star
#32
#32
VF21 said:
The reason everybody is upset is because the Kings aren't 25-5 and headed for the playoffs.
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Not true. I'm upset because I never EVER want to see a lineup of all 6'6" and shorter guys again.

Any coach who plays a Reke/Salmons frontline is not deserving of my support.

Like I voted in the other Smart thread, I will give him until the end of the year. But of these lineups continue, he needs to be done.
 
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rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#33
#33
VF21 said:
rainmaker - Fiirst, there was nothing derogatory about my statement. I fail to see where comparing a wish for a HOF coach to a wish for a pony could even be remotely construed to be derogatory... but whatever.

As far as Voisin is concerned, I think you and others are reading way too much into her opinion. I hadn't seen the Amick article before, so I stand corrected in that regard. I do not, however, think either article is particularly overflowing in fact.

You have shown me an article, however, so I will cease and desist from future comments in that particular vein. I will still be incredibly skeptical about Jerry Sloan becoming a coach for the Kings for a variety of reasons, among them the cold hard fact that there will most likely be much juicier low-hanging fruit for him to choose from should he decide to return to the NBA.

One other comment? I may be the only Kings fan on the planet who isn't blinded by the brilliance of the aforementioned Jerry Sloan. I'd sooner have Phil Jackson.
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It's fine if we disagree on Sloan. I have no problem with that. It did come across as derogatory though in the way that it seemed you would think some of us have brought up Sloan with absolutely nothing to go on and that it's simply wishful thinking and can be compared to a child wishing for a pony. The Sloan comments aren't just rooted in fantasy with zero evidence to go on.

But I'll leave it at that. Don't want to argue with you. One thing we all have in common, even though we may disagree from time to time, is that any opinions we have are for the franchise to be as successful as possible, because we love the team. We may not agree on how to get there, but we have the same goal.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#34
#34
iowamcnabb said:
This is the Sloan quote, although not much can be taken from it

"They can go one of two ways here - give the job to assistant Keith Smart on an interim basis for the remainder of the season or try to make a big strike with one of the established coaches available. The list of the latter is fairly impressive: Jerry Sloan, Larry Brown, Don Nelson and Phil Jackson, though it sounds like Phil wants to take off a year. Sloan would seem like an obvious choice here. I am hearing he wants to coach again, likes some of the Kings' talent, and likes coaching in small markets."
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Also found this old tweet from Amick.Can't find the old Voisin article.

"The Maloof and sources said that Tammy [Sloan] hopes her husband (Jerry) returns to coaching and was favorable in Sacramento", Sam Amick tweetdeck
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#35
#35
rainmaker said:
It's fine if we disagree on Sloan. I have no problem with that. It did come across as derogatory though in the way that it seemed you would think some of us have brought up Sloan with absolutely nothing to go on and that it's simply wishful thinking and can be compared to a child wishing for a pony. The Sloan comments aren't just rooted in fantasy with zero evidence to go on.

But I'll leave it at that. Don't want to argue with you. One thing we all have in common, even though we may disagree from time to time, is that any opinions we have are for the franchise to be as successful as possible, because we love the team. We may not agree on how to get there, but we have the same goal.
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Fair enough.

:)
 
kingsnation

kingsnation

All-Star
#36
#36
VF21 said:
One other comment? I may be the only Kings fan on the planet who isn't blinded by the brilliance of the aforementioned Jerry Sloan.
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I actually don't want him as coach either. I just want a coach that has been successful before and is relevant in this league. Since Adelman, who have we had? 2 former GS coaches who had minimal success with the Warriors and were let go by the team. So Warriors Leftovers, if you will. We've had Paul Westphal who had success in the 90s but hadn't coached in a decade. Then we have Theus who was a rookie Head Coach. Then of course all of the glory that was Kenny Natt.

Can the Maloofs just hire a recently successful coach for once? I'm not saying Sloan or Phil or any other HOF coach but please just someone who has proven themselves in the modern NBA...
 
origkds

origkds

What- Me Worry?
#37
#37
All we need in a coach right now is someone that can teach our youngsters how to mature into NBA basketball players. I believe it is happening before our eyes but obviously not fast enough for some of you. No coach in the NBA is going to instantly give Tryeke an outside jump shot or stop our rookies from making bonehead mistakes. That doesn’t mean that we trade them off- we teach them. Teaching takes time and I think that Smart is probably as capable as anyone to give them the guidance they need. Until our young players mature (and we add a missing piece or two) the Kings are what they are, a rebuilding team. All I hoped for this year was to watch them grow and I finally see that happening under Keith Smart’s direction.
 
M

mac

All-Star
#38
#38
kingsnation said:
I actually don't want him as coach either. I just want a coach that has been successful before and is relevant in this league. Since Adelman, who have we had? 2 former GS coaches who had minimal success with the Warriors and were let go by the team. So Warriors Leftovers, if you will. We've had Paul Westphal who had success in the 90s but hadn't coached in a decade. Then we have Theus who was a rookie Head Coach. Then of course all of the glory that was Kenny Natt.

Can the Maloofs just hire a recently successful coach for once? I'm not saying Sloan or Phil or any other HOF coach but please just someone who has proven themselves in the modern NBA...
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All I want is a coach that can define guys' roles. That's really the starting point. It's been 2.5 seasons and I think some of the guys still don't know what their role is, especially Tyreke. Or how bout Donte? He gets yanked around like mad as well. About the only guy who has been given the same role to play night in and night out is Garcia, and it's funny how as of late he's playing exactly the same way that he was in previous seasons. Even Cousins' role has been changing. First we use him as a passer quite a bit more. Then we play him in the post, but he struggles. So now we have him coming off screens and shooting 16 ft jumpshots.

I mean, as ridiculous as playing John Salmons at PF is, he would stand a better chance if he knows that he is now a PF and will be a PF forever. Poor Tyreke .. You're a guard, no you're a PG, no you're a SG, no you're a PG, no you're a SF, no you're a point forward! Like wth man just make up your mind and give the guys a specific role so that they can work on it. Donte, go in there and guard Kobe! No Donte, put on weight and go play the 4 and guard Amare! No Donte, you're overweight, go guard LBJ! No Donte, go guard Lamarcus Aldridge.

You don't need a HOF coach to put the team in the right direction. I can't for the life of me understand why Smart isn't being so smart these days, and frankly I'm appalled at his insistence on playing small ball. Look at Scott Brooks - assistant on the Kings bench one year, a few years later one of the candidates for COY year in and year out. It doesn't take some genius, proven coach to get our team playing better and more consistently, it just takes one who isn't an idiot.

Admittedly, I'm sure Smart isn't overly satisfied with the make up of the team. We lack a good SF, a backup big (cos Hickson isn't cutting it) and have other misfits. But it really isn't that hard to come to lineups similar to the ones that everyone here has been calling for. IT, Tyreke, Greene, JT, Cousins!!! Or Tyreke and MT in the backcourt. Whatever!

Ah well ... guess I'll just have to do blame PW for not doing **** with the guys.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#41
#41
Fear the Putin said:
Nate McMillan just got canned

hmm...bmm...chmm...
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I wondered how long it would take to bring this up. Seriously though, although my mind is made up that Smart won't be a solution unless he abandons smallball, I don't have faith in the Maloofs going after McMillan. They might prefer someone like Flip. It's like when they said they would spend money, and we ended up with Outlaw and Salmons. The devil is in the details.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#46
#46
I just can't get over how impulsive our ****ing owners are. With them there is no middle ground, its either one extreme or the other! Why the **** would you pick up the option for next year when you are guaranteed that there will be better coaches available by the end of the season. Its just plain dumb.

Now all of a sudden the coaching landscape is opening up in the NBA and the dumb and dumber have a not so Smart coach signed on for the next season!

Great work lads!
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#49
#49
Kingster said:
[/B]

Very well said. We're all arguing over crumbs because there is no steak. I've been frustrated with some of his substitutions, but sometimes there is a method to the madness. One example is keeping the bench in the game for a very long time at the end of the game. He may think he needs to send a signal (to play D) to the starting unit by doing this. Regardless, there are a lot more pluses than minuses.
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Actually, the whole thing is humorous to some extent, and I can't argue with either of you, but I do know this, Having Marcus Thronton guard Prince, is a recipe for loosing. Just like having Jimmer guard Kareem Rush. You just can't give away 4 to 5 inches on defense and expect to stop a good player. I sat there watching the game last night with Cruzdude, and started laughing. He asked me why, and I said, they actually have Thornton at 6'3" guarding Prince, who at least 6'8". Dude doesn't even have to jump to shoot over him. Now thats funny!
 
jalfa

jalfa

Starter
#50
#50
UK_King said:
To be fair, calling for the head of Smart is just as reactionary as giving him a long(ish) contract minimal games into his tenure.
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wouldn't you agree that the sample size is big enough to warrant the claim that Sloan/McMillan/Jackson would all be better fits? Smart would be fine if he were ever to drop that smallball crap, but as that seems unlikely, there's a lot of coaches I'd prefer.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#52
#52
Funny story about St. Jean. If anyone remembers Pete Chilcutt, a PF type that ended marrying on of the Kings dancers. Everytime he played, St. Jean would constantly yell at him. Telling him where to go on the floor, how to rotate, etc, etc. One night, he broke out and had something like 23 pts and 12 boards. After the game, a reporter asked him what was different. Why the sudden success. Pete said, I just stopped listening to St. Jean and played.
 
UK_King

UK_King

Starter
#53
#53
jalfa said:
wouldn't you agree that the sample size is big enough to warrant the claim that Sloan/McMillan/Jackson would all be better fits? Smart would be fine if he were ever to drop that smallball crap, but as that seems unlikely, there's a lot of coaches I'd prefer.
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I'm not on the Jerry Sloan bandwagon myself but there's no argument that he's a top coach, would he be better than Smart... maybe? But even so, Smart is the coach, he's going to be the coach through this season and probably next.

I like some things i've seen, i don't like other things, i just don't see the point of calling for this coach and that coach when clearly none of them are going to coach the kings for the foreseeable future.

It's kinda like saying well Lebron would be a good fit!
 
jalfa

jalfa

Starter
#54
#54
UK_King said:
I'm not on the Jerry Sloan bandwagon myself but there's no argument that he's a top coach, would he be better than Smart... maybe? But even so, Smart is the coach, he's going to be the coach through this season and probably next.

I like some things i've seen, i don't like other things, i just don't see the point of calling for this coach and that coach when clearly none of them are going to coach the kings for the foreseeable future.

It's kinda like saying well Lebron would be a good fit!
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I don't think that those coaches are completely out of the question, at least if you go after them hard enough. the problem here is that unnecessary extension Smart received when things still looked rosy. so, no, the Kings should not fire Smart now, but obstructing their own way by extending Smart way too early still is bloody stupid, especially now that all of a sudden a lot of top flight alternatives are available.
 
UK_King

UK_King

Starter
#55
#55
jalfa said:
I don't think that those coaches are completely out of the question, at least if you go after them hard enough. the problem here is that unnecessary extension Smart received when things still looked rosy. so, no, the Kings should not fire Smart now, but obstructing their own way by extending Smart way too early still is bloody stupid, especially now that all of a sudden a lot of top flight alternatives are available.
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For the record i would have assessed the Smart situation at the end of the season, i think most sane people would have. But whats done is done, Smart is the coach. The absolute earliest he will depart, IMO, is early next season if he has a disastrous start.
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#56
#56
UK_King said:
For the record i would have assessed the Smart situation at the end of the season, i think most sane people would have. But whats done is done, Smart is the coach. The absolute earliest he will depart, IMO, is early next season if he has a disastrous start.
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I agree with this. Of course, some coaches available now or over the summer won't be available then. My problem is I have no faith in the Maloofs when it comes to picking coaches.

I like a lot of things about Smart, but his whole Nellie small-ball obssession is just too much for me.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#57
#57
kennadog said:
I agree with this. Of course, some coaches available now or over the summer won't be available then. My problem is I have no faith in the Maloofs when it comes to picking coaches.

I like a lot of things about Smart, but his whole Nellie small-ball obssession is just too much for me.
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This is the problem. It seems there are several coaches available right now, some of average quality and a few of superior quality. I doubt they will be available if and when we give up on Smart who I see as a negative influence already. The Maloofs made a huge mistake.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#58
#58
All contracts have a buyout. I don't assume that Smart's is substantial. If a top tier coach is available, and the Maloofs want to show interest in building a winner, then they could make it happen.
 
IfAt1st

IfAt1st

Starter
#59
#59
As I said when it happened, it was a huge mistake extending Smart before they knew whether he was capable of implementing an NBA quality system for offense or defense.

I'm different from most posters I read, in that I don't think it takes very long at all to determine whether a coach has it or not.
They are fully-formed products and if they can't lead your team into competitiveness, than we can't afford them learning on our time.

Not this team.
Not this city.
Not these players.

That's why the Maloofs extending Smart was such a catastrophic blunder - it took away our flexibility and hobbled us with a sub-standard coach who has no clue how to construct a defense or offense. I don't care if he gets along with the guys.

Now we are likely doomed to flounder through the end of next season, with inadequate systems that can't compete at the NBA level.
Or - the players will gradually tune Smart out and there will be an uprising next season, leading to ANOTHER hasty, incomplete coaching search that ends up with a inexperienced and untested coach. Cue cycle to repeat.
(Actually, the BEST CASE SCENARIO is that the players start tanking on him NOW, and force the FO's hand to fire him and find a replacement over the summer. It's in Demarcus' background to not be afraid of making his displeasure known, and this time he'd need the other players (namely, Tyreke) to take the front in pushing Smart out pronto).

When will the Maloofs realize that it takes VETERAN EXPERIENCE to win in the NBA?
This includes coaches.
And to get a veteran player or coach, you have to woo them early on, make it clear that you are their choice and give the reasons why and if their goals jive with yours, you might make a connection.
But having a coach already on staff is not the kind of situation that these guys like to step into - bad juju, forcing a coach out (whether they get paid severance or not).

By extending Smart prematurely, they probably obliterated their greatest opportunity to get a veteran coach that knows how to instill an NBA-proven system, and THAT is going to bit all of us in the *** for YEARS to come (I predict 6 to 7 years).

Yes, I'm feeling pessimistic about the Kings future right about now - and I WILL bring it up in 7 years if I'm proven right again (god, I hope I'm wrong on this one).
 
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rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#60
#60
Ifat1st, I do think a huge problem with the extension of Smart, beyond the prospect of paying two coaches at the same time again at some point next season, and all the effects a lame duck coach can have on development/training camp, is that in terms of hiring a top coach, it has to happen during the summer. The summer is when teams hire big time coaches, never after firing a coach mid season.

So once again, we extended Smart into the time period which is most important for hiring and recruiting a top coach. Fire Smart during the season next year and as you said we'll get a s***ty replacement. The summer is when hiring/courting must be done, and the Maloofs just made it that much tougher on themselves. And I'm shocked they don't realize how important May/June/July is for getting a new coach.

Of course nothing in theory is preventing them from axing Smart after the season and courting someone else, but I'd say I'm less than confident that happens, and that's being kind.
 
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