K
So a rookie who was his college team's main (some would say sole) offensive threat and had carte blanche to jack up shots while being told by his coach not to play defense is not lighting the NBA world on fire two weeks in as he tries to retool his game as a roleplayer, facilitator and defender without the benefit of summer league, training camp a real preseason or competent coaching?
Shocker.
Shocker.
Jimmer is fairly predictably for those of us who have been around for a while becoming the most divisive of Kings players. A recurring problem whenever a player with a strong player-centric following shows up to a team-centric board. Normally this happens with internatinal players with natinalistic followings, but Jimmer is kind of a throwback as an older rookie with a chance to build up 4 years worth of following and hype in college, and the effect is the same. The Jimmermania people are still fans of the player, not the team, and like Peja or Hedo or just whoever from years past are going to oversell their guy and be primarily interested in his excelling, not the team. Eventually that annoys followers of the team, and a certain percentage of them begin to overpush back the other way and actively start rooting for the annoyance to fail and go away. But the key to these thing is always this: its not the player causing the problems, its fans who lose perspective. Jimmer himself by all accounts is a nice enough kid. And no matter how hard you root for him or against him you aren't going to make 0.1ppg difference in his production.
Now I happen to think Jimmermania is probably a college phenomenon. 6'2" guys without elite quickness are not stars in the NBA unless they are amazing passers. And these calls for Jimmer to start or whatever are silly given the caliber of players we alreayd have at those spots. Jimmer is struggling, as most rookies do early on. Reke was freakish in his ability to step right in, but even DeMarcus, as talented as he was, took a couple of months to figure out he was in the NBA now. And with Jimmer he's having to adjust to everybody suddenly being bigger than him, those bigs when he dirves inside being 6'11" instead fo 6'7" etc. Its just going to take time. That said, I've seen some smarts there, I'm sold on him as a shooter if we can get him off the ball and set him up, and once he figures out what he can and can not do he should be fine. I'm not going to buy great until I see it. But calling him terrible or a failure as a rookie 10th pick is just an overreaction to the hype. The player himself hasn't earned that reaction, through play or personality.
Now I happen to think Jimmermania is probably a college phenomenon. 6'2" guys without elite quickness are not stars in the NBA unless they are amazing passers. And these calls for Jimmer to start or whatever are silly given the caliber of players we alreayd have at those spots. Jimmer is struggling, as most rookies do early on. Reke was freakish in his ability to step right in, but even DeMarcus, as talented as he was, took a couple of months to figure out he was in the NBA now. And with Jimmer he's having to adjust to everybody suddenly being bigger than him, those bigs when he dirves inside being 6'11" instead fo 6'7" etc. Its just going to take time. That said, I've seen some smarts there, I'm sold on him as a shooter if we can get him off the ball and set him up, and once he figures out what he can and can not do he should be fine. I'm not going to buy great until I see it. But calling him terrible or a failure as a rookie 10th pick is just an overreaction to the hype. The player himself hasn't earned that reaction, through play or personality.
Brick, IMO that is a great post and an accurate read on Fredette.
I was surprised how little he looked next to Beno last night. I do think his minutes were warranted if for no other reason than he demands to be guarded. I have not witnessed anyone leaving him to help on Tyreke or Thornton which allows them to go one-on-one.
He is a good enough shooter that this should stay the case. He looks very weak dribbling right now which has to be more of a confidence thing than anything else. He might be a good passer down the road when he stops hesitating. He actually looked more confident at the beginning of the season, and I feel the Westphal demise effected him directly.
I was surprised how little he looked next to Beno last night. I do think his minutes were warranted if for no other reason than he demands to be guarded. I have not witnessed anyone leaving him to help on Tyreke or Thornton which allows them to go one-on-one.
He is a good enough shooter that this should stay the case. He looks very weak dribbling right now which has to be more of a confidence thing than anything else. He might be a good passer down the road when he stops hesitating. He actually looked more confident at the beginning of the season, and I feel the Westphal demise effected him directly.
Also, the issues related to the expected learning curve Jimmer faces are exacerbated by playing for a team that seemingly lacks a cohesive offensive system or defined roles. Imagine if Petrie called up Orlando and went all in for Dwight Howard. Say, Tyreke, DeMarcus and Hickson and/or this year's draft pick. All of a sudden, Jimmer's role is crystal clear. He and Thornton start at the guards and spread the floor as shooting threats to keep defenses from collapsing on Howard. All he has to do is spot up and shoot and feed the post. He can give his best effort on defense with the luxury of learning as he goes since Howard protects the rim.
I'd never advocate for such a deal, but it works as a thought experiment.
Because the reality is that Fredette so far this season doesn't seem to have ANY sort of defined role. Bench gunner? Steady facilitator? Floor spreading decoy? Batum stopper?
He looks confused and it's certainly understandable. As I've watched him he vacillates between being tentative and being a chucker. Part of that is just rookie pains and finding his way but another large part of it is coaching.
What I'd like to see Smart do is cut his minutes down and give him clear and simple objectives and add to them slowly as time goes by. Right now it's enough for him to take open threes, feed the post and be ready to hustle back on transition D. I'd love it if Fredette became a star but I don't see it happening. But he could be a Bibby like player. Maybe not with the same court vision but a better shooter and hopefully a slightly better defender. But it will take time.
I'd never advocate for such a deal, but it works as a thought experiment.
Because the reality is that Fredette so far this season doesn't seem to have ANY sort of defined role. Bench gunner? Steady facilitator? Floor spreading decoy? Batum stopper?
He looks confused and it's certainly understandable. As I've watched him he vacillates between being tentative and being a chucker. Part of that is just rookie pains and finding his way but another large part of it is coaching.
What I'd like to see Smart do is cut his minutes down and give him clear and simple objectives and add to them slowly as time goes by. Right now it's enough for him to take open threes, feed the post and be ready to hustle back on transition D. I'd love it if Fredette became a star but I don't see it happening. But he could be a Bibby like player. Maybe not with the same court vision but a better shooter and hopefully a slightly better defender. But it will take time.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
I'm a Jimmer Fan who is transitioning to the team (Hard as it is with the idiocy of the prior coaching). I have kept a low profile, mostly lurking, and listened to what everyone else is saying about him. With the exception of a few Jimmer homers (who I can't stand), you've all been quite fair to the kid.
I don't want to make the game about Jimmer for the rest of you. I simply want to follow my favorite BB player in decades and see how well he fares. I think he has the ability to be great, but we shall see. I wish the best for the Kings and hope you can figure out how to best take advantage of this amazing (to me) abilities. Jimmer mania wasn't an accident, the kid has something special. I hope it translates to the NBA.
Brick, you are a VERY well informed BB critic. I think you should be given a bigger stick.
I'm a Jimmer Fan who is transitioning to the team (Hard as it is with the idiocy of the prior coaching). I have kept a low profile, mostly lurking, and listened to what everyone else is saying about him. With the exception of a few Jimmer homers (who I can't stand), you've all been quite fair to the kid.
I don't want to make the game about Jimmer for the rest of you. I simply want to follow my favorite BB player in decades and see how well he fares. I think he has the ability to be great, but we shall see. I wish the best for the Kings and hope you can figure out how to best take advantage of this amazing (to me) abilities. Jimmer mania wasn't an accident, the kid has something special. I hope it translates to the NBA.
Brick, you are a VERY well informed BB critic. I think you should be given a bigger stick.
All right, I'm back, and well rested, and hopefully, less grumpy. Let me be clear about what upsets me. Its extremes, and seeing everything in black and white. If someone wants to say the Jimmer is struggling to find his nitch on the team right now, thats fine with me. I'm not sure he knows what his role is. What I do know, is that his style of play is for the moment, quite different from when he was at BYU. And that's to be expected. He wasn't after all, the first pick in the draft, nor should he have been. He's a talented kid, who is a very good shooter, and not to worry, players don't forget how to shoot, they just go through periods of adjustment. I've seen good shooters go 0 for 8 in the first half, and then hit 7 or 8 in a row in the second half. Unfortuately for Jimmer, at least so far, he's not taking that many shots in a game, so shooting yourself into a rhythm isn't possible. No excuses, he just hasn't been hitting his shots consistently.
He also has good passing skills and ballhandling skills, but they're not yet up to speed for the NBA, where everyone is quicker, taller, and stronger. I know some of you will think I'm crazy when I say this, but for those of you that remember Steve Nash when he came into the league, he was known as a shooter, and not a special athlete. His rookie year he had the tendecy to drive into traffic and leave his feet. He turned the ball over too many times. Even in his third year, I remember making a comparison to my son between Nash and Bibby, saying that so far I thought Bibby was the player with the brightest future, and was certainly the better PG of the two. Shows what I know. But I learned from that mistake!
My point is, accept him for what he is at the moment, a young rookie with no NBA experience thats going to make mistakes. But at the same time, remember he's far from a finished product, and will be remarkably better in a couple of years. Do I think he's ready to start? Of course not, and it wouldn't be fair to him to put that kind of pressure on him. Its a rare player that comes from college to the Pro's without missing a beat. Especially at either the PG or the Center position, the two hardest positions to play.
My final note: I almost hate reading the fourms after the Kings win a game. It seems that there are more negative posts after a win than there are after a loss. Its almost as though there are those out there that can't stand to have people actually happy about their team, so they have to rain on the parade. I don't understand that thinking. And by the way, I used the term idiots, in a general term. You'll notice it was plural. However, if you want to step up and assume that mantle, then have at it. I do apologize for being grumpy though.
He also has good passing skills and ballhandling skills, but they're not yet up to speed for the NBA, where everyone is quicker, taller, and stronger. I know some of you will think I'm crazy when I say this, but for those of you that remember Steve Nash when he came into the league, he was known as a shooter, and not a special athlete. His rookie year he had the tendecy to drive into traffic and leave his feet. He turned the ball over too many times. Even in his third year, I remember making a comparison to my son between Nash and Bibby, saying that so far I thought Bibby was the player with the brightest future, and was certainly the better PG of the two. Shows what I know. But I learned from that mistake!
My point is, accept him for what he is at the moment, a young rookie with no NBA experience thats going to make mistakes. But at the same time, remember he's far from a finished product, and will be remarkably better in a couple of years. Do I think he's ready to start? Of course not, and it wouldn't be fair to him to put that kind of pressure on him. Its a rare player that comes from college to the Pro's without missing a beat. Especially at either the PG or the Center position, the two hardest positions to play.
My final note: I almost hate reading the fourms after the Kings win a game. It seems that there are more negative posts after a win than there are after a loss. Its almost as though there are those out there that can't stand to have people actually happy about their team, so they have to rain on the parade. I don't understand that thinking. And by the way, I used the term idiots, in a general term. You'll notice it was plural. However, if you want to step up and assume that mantle, then have at it. I do apologize for being grumpy though.
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People are always looking to have a little moan; even when things are "good" there's always something to go in on.
I counted maybe 4 times last night when Salmons drove the lane and Jimmer is wide open and he elected to just chuck up a bad shot.
he had 2 turnovers i remember, where he laid pretty good passes out and the person he was passing too was asleep.
Lets see what Smarts plans are for him; I'm guessing more as an impact guy from last night.
I counted maybe 4 times last night when Salmons drove the lane and Jimmer is wide open and he elected to just chuck up a bad shot.
he had 2 turnovers i remember, where he laid pretty good passes out and the person he was passing too was asleep.
Lets see what Smarts plans are for him; I'm guessing more as an impact guy from last night.
you do realize that each time you way overstate your case to make a point it becomes more difficult for people reading your posts to take you seriously.
you are the guy that ALWAYS caught the fish thhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssssss big
(but then it got away, before anyone could see it)
you are the guy that ALWAYS caught the fish thhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssssss big
(but then it got away, before anyone could see it)
First I read a Jimmer "homer" thread and then come and read this thread. LOL Talk about being extreme. Let's give this seemingly nice young rookie a chance to get his feet under himself in the NBA, before we burn him at the stake or put him on a pedestal.
I want him to be as successful as the Kings need him to be (part of a contending team).
On the other hand, I realize that there will always be "see no evil" fans and see "nothing but evil" fans. There were still plenty of negative posters around here, when we were a 62-win team. (I think it was 62). I expect, thus it will ever be.
Bajaden: Hope your wife is feeling better.
I want him to be as successful as the Kings need him to be (part of a contending team).
On the other hand, I realize that there will always be "see no evil" fans and see "nothing but evil" fans. There were still plenty of negative posters around here, when we were a 62-win team. (I think it was 62). I expect, thus it will ever be.
Bajaden: Hope your wife is feeling better.
So much fail in just one post... where do I even begin? Well, to be honest, I probably shouldn't even attempt to address every "point" OP has made.
So I'll just make these points:
- Obviously the coaches disagree with you, as Jimmer has been getting around 25 minutes every game (he's played more minutes in some games than the starters themselves)
- Obviously the coaches think Jimmer is a good player, as he has played the entire (or nearly the entire) 4th quarter in many close/big games so far this season, including last nights game against the Bucks... coach kept him in the entire time in the 4th... what does that tell you?
- Jimmer has struggled with his shot... at least in comparison with the way he shot in college. But his shooting has not been awful. It's even been good on a couple nights. It will improve with time as the offense runs plays more and as Jimmer adjusts. It's not like he's lost his ability to shoot lights out.
- If you haven't recognized Jimmer's ability to run the offense, spread the floor, and make good passes to teammates, then you either know nothing about the sport of basketball, or are just seeing what you want to see. Up to this point, Jimmer has run the offense better than any other guard. He hasn't scored the most or made the biggest plays - but he has been running it the most consistently
- And the biggest point of all: The only way you can look at Jimmer's numbers and honestly say that he's been "awful," is if you're comparing his numbers to his college numbers. And if you're doing that... WOW! I mean, did you REALLY expect Jimmer to come into the NBA and average 30 points a game? To have 52 point games with only 1 foul shot? To go on the road against top competition and single-handedly carry the team to victory? Be realistic... he's not going to come straight into the NBA and play anywhere NEAR to what he did in college, because in college he was the absolute best player in the country. I get the sense that you expected him to play now how he did then... and having such a belief is about as unrealistic as it gets.
So I'll just make these points:
- Obviously the coaches disagree with you, as Jimmer has been getting around 25 minutes every game (he's played more minutes in some games than the starters themselves)
- Obviously the coaches think Jimmer is a good player, as he has played the entire (or nearly the entire) 4th quarter in many close/big games so far this season, including last nights game against the Bucks... coach kept him in the entire time in the 4th... what does that tell you?
- Jimmer has struggled with his shot... at least in comparison with the way he shot in college. But his shooting has not been awful. It's even been good on a couple nights. It will improve with time as the offense runs plays more and as Jimmer adjusts. It's not like he's lost his ability to shoot lights out.
- If you haven't recognized Jimmer's ability to run the offense, spread the floor, and make good passes to teammates, then you either know nothing about the sport of basketball, or are just seeing what you want to see. Up to this point, Jimmer has run the offense better than any other guard. He hasn't scored the most or made the biggest plays - but he has been running it the most consistently
- And the biggest point of all: The only way you can look at Jimmer's numbers and honestly say that he's been "awful," is if you're comparing his numbers to his college numbers. And if you're doing that... WOW! I mean, did you REALLY expect Jimmer to come into the NBA and average 30 points a game? To have 52 point games with only 1 foul shot? To go on the road against top competition and single-handedly carry the team to victory? Be realistic... he's not going to come straight into the NBA and play anywhere NEAR to what he did in college, because in college he was the absolute best player in the country. I get the sense that you expected him to play now how he did then... and having such a belief is about as unrealistic as it gets.
