With the 7th pick in the 2011 NBA Draft, the Sacramento Kings select .....

I do like Burks a lot, and think he has the talent to be one of the best from the draft. I'm just not sure Petrie will pick him. It's a shame more Colorado games weren't televised during the year, I've always had an interest in him.

The reason I mentioned Wade is his ability to get to the rim, body control, ball handling and passing. He's pretty quick and athletic also.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I do like Burks a lot, and think he has the talent to be one of the best from the draft. I'm just not sure Petrie will pick him. It's a shame more Colorado games weren't televised during the year, I've always had an interest in him.

The reason I mentioned Wade is his ability to get to the rim, body control, ball handling and passing. He's pretty quick and athletic also.
Here's the thing about Burks. He's just not a very good outside shooter. And when he's bad from out there, he's really bad. Like shooting a wide open airball. The other part that bothered me was that he handles the ball extremely well, but settled for pullup jumpers in a crowd too often, rather than taking it to the basket. He's a very good passer, but didn't get many assists. Around the basket he's very creative, but because of his slight build, gets knocked off balance a lot. On paper he has great potential. But I think Walker, Fredette and Leonard are more NBA ready right now.

I guess I don't see the Wade comparison, because Wade is very strong and is quite capable of banging bodies while driving to the basket, and still finishing. My other problem is I just don't see the current version of Burks on the floor at the same time with Evans. I don't think the Kings need two guys that drive to the basket and don't have an outside shot.
 
Here's the thing about Burks. He's just not a very good outside shooter. And when he's bad from out there, he's really bad. Like shooting a wide open airball. The other part that bothered me was that he handles the ball extremely well, but settled for pullup jumpers in a crowd too often, rather than taking it to the basket. He's a very good passer, but didn't get many assists. Around the basket he's very creative, but because of his slight build, gets knocked off balance a lot. On paper he has great potential. But I think Walker, Fredette and Leonard are more NBA ready right now.

I guess I don't see the Wade comparison, because Wade is very strong and is quite capable of banging bodies while driving to the basket, and still finishing. My other problem is I just don't see the current version of Burks on the floor at the same time with Evans. I don't think the Kings need two guys that drive to the basket and don't have an outside shot.
Hey, I've seen very little of Burks, so I'm not trying to be an authority on him. I like his talent, and was just making an observation. Of course I don't think he's the second coming of Wade, just noting the few similarities. It is Wade's strength and finishing ability that seperates him from the rest. As I said, I would have liked to have seen some Colorado games during the season, but it didn't happen. So I'm only going by various reports and youtube videos, which don't tell the whole story.

It's tough to have a solid opinion on a guy you haven't seen play much, so I'll reserve that for the guys I've seen properly.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Burks looks like he has the ability to take over games on offense and of what little was shown of him playing defense on Tristan Thompson during his workout, I think he showed a lot of capability. He made Thompson pick up his dribble on a crossover attempt and forced him to take a tough shot. I don't know if that is enough for anyone else, but it sold me--even though Thompson made it.
That was Klay Thompson, the shooter from Washington State, who worked out with Burks not Tristan Thompson, the lefty big man from Texas. As far as I know we didn't bring in Tristan Thompson for a workout.
 
The Burks that I saw in the pre-draft videos (and not just the Kings') is exponentially better than the Burks that I saw in college. It may be that he plays better when the pressure is not on him to be the Man, or he's just a good workout guy, or he actually did make progress. But he is looking better now than a few months ago, he almost had me sold; almost.

I'm not a big Burks guy and I also question his fit next to Tyreke, but if he is indeed the BPA, he should be the pick.
 
I think his mechanics look a lot better, but it's a different atmosphere in workout/practice scenarios than in actual games. I think he definitely has the potential to improve his shot, but it'll take commitment though. I think Burks has something to prove though, so I think he's a good bet. It's true he's not a great fit and BPA has a lot to do with taste at that point, but I think he's the likely BPA there and I think you just take him and see what happens over the next couple of years. At worst, he's valuable in trades because teams are always looking for true SG's, and Burks is a true 6'6 SG.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
At worst, he's valuable in trades because teams are always looking for true SG's, and Burks is a true 6'6 SG.
While nto disagreeing with the general BPA sentiment, I do have to question this a bit -- SG is the single easiest position in the NBA to fill. A good player at almost any other positon is more valuable in trade than a good SG. Now of course if he's a GREAT SG...well then we should find a way to keep him. :)
 
-Alec Burks unsurprisingly fares much better from a statistical standpoint, where his 0.987 PPP ranks sixth overall, and he uses 19.3 possessions per game, fourth most of all wings. Burks' aFG% of 48.7% actually ranks third worst in the class, but he sports an above average TO% and his 18.8% free throw rate is easily best in the class.

Burks' ability to quickly create shots is evident in his transition numbers, as 21.8% of his possessions come on the break, the highest in the class. Burks is a talented shot creator in the halfcourt as well, with 16.1% of his possessions coming on pick-and-rolls (1st overall) and 19.0% coming on isolations (fourth overall). Burks' 0.897 PPP on isolations ranks dead in the middle of the class at ninth, but given the defensive attention he drew, it's still impressive.

Another interesting note on Burks' isolations is the equal rate he drove left and right, having 53 possessions on the season going right and 54 going left. His PPP was equally impressive in both directions, at 0.849 going right and 0.963 going left.

The area Burks fared the poorest was certainly with jump shots, where his 0.734 PPS ranked dead last, hurt by his poor three-point shooting and reliance on long two-point jumpers. Burks takes more pull-up jumpers per game (4) than any wing player in this class, but converts just 27% of these attempts. He takes far less (1.5) catch and shoot jumpers, but makes these at a 39% clip, which leaves some room for optimism that he can at least develop into a decent set-shooter.

On the other hand, Burks ranked third in the class finishing around the basket at 1.242 PPS, and that doesn't take into account the ridiculous rate at which he gets to the free-throw line, where he gets a ton of easy points with his 82.5% shooting.

All things considered, Burks' virtues as a prospect is represented quite well in this sampling.
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Situational-Statistics-the-2011-Wing-Crop-3767/#ixzz1Q1Bl1xVj
http://www.draftexpress.com

Very encouraging stats for Burks. Shooting is the easiest skill to improve on in the NBA.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
All signs point to Walker being on the board at our pick at this point in time.
I would hope. But the draft shows I've been watching on TV show Utah taking Knight and Toronto taking Walker. Seems like Utah at #3 is the lynchpin for this draft. If they go big, the Kings have an excellent chance to get Kemba or Knight. If not, it seems rather dubious.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
Geoff Petrie is secretive, but he also is a bit predictable. He has never traded up high in the draft, his trades on draft day generally involve roster players rather than picks and he is pretty strict about only drafting guys he's worked out.

From reports, that would mean the guys in play at 7 would most likely be:

Brandon Knight
Jimmer Fredette
Kemba Walker
Kawhi Leonard
Alec Burks
Klay Thompson

and any international players he's worked out.

There may be more, but those are the players that we have firm reports on having worked out for the Kings who are projected in the top 15 or so.
I like Klay Thompson but he reminds me too much of a more talented but less experienced Cisco as a SG/SF swingman. I'm not in favor of drafting Fredette or Walker. I like them both a lot as players but not for this team. I don't want the ball taken out of Tyreke's hands and more importantly I don't want to see teams punishing a Thornton/Fredette or Walker backcourt when Tyreke goes to the bench. I'd much rather draft a big SG like Burks and always have the size/strength advantage.

Under normal circumstances I could see Valanciunas being the pick if Petrie sees real potential in him. Geoff is patient above all else but I think he has orders to improve the team now. I think Biyombo and Vesely are also too raw to be contributors right away.

If the pick isn't traded I think the Kings board has Knight, Leonard and then Burks. I'm guessing we end up with Leonard.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
Very encouraging stats for Burks. Shooting is the easiest skill to improve on in the NBA.
Maybe if you're just learning the game it is. I find it hard to believe that is the case, or else every team would be full of real shooters. I get what you're saying, that repetition can have positive effects, but I still don't buy it. It depends on age, work ethic, proper coaching, and work ethic.
 
Maybe if you're just learning the game it is. I find it hard to believe that is the case, or else every team would be full of real shooters. I get what you're saying, that repetition can have positive effects, but I still don't buy it. It depends on age, work ethic, proper coaching, and work ethic.
I tend to agree. Something about Burks deep jumpers gives me pause. I saw one highlight (he made the shot) but it knuckled, haha. No rotation at all. Focusing on his strengths, he can be a Stuckey type of combo guard, and I certainly like his ability to get to the line.
 
Maybe if you're just learning the game it is. I find it hard to believe that is the case, or else every team would be full of real shooters. I get what you're saying, that repetition can have positive effects, but I still don't buy it. It depends on age, work ethic, proper coaching, and work ethic.
Okay, name me a skill that's easier for players to improve at.
 
Most guys coming out of college/AAU rely heavily on their athletic abilities for rebounding. Big improvements can be made, and much sooner than shooting.

Burks will never be a great shooter, but yeah, he can improve just like Tyreke.
 
Oh please, improved rebounding is not nearly as common as improved shooting. How often can poor rebounders become good rebounders? There are many cases of poor shooters becoming good shooters.
I get your point Vlade4GM, but it takes many years for a poor shooter to become a good one. Jason Kidd took about ten years, Gerald Wallace about six, Tony Parker about seven and he' still shaky outside the arc. I don't doubt that by 2018, Burk may be a good shooter but I'm not sure the Kings can afford to wait that long.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
Okay, name me a skill that's easier for players to improve at.
Passing. You can see steady and consistent improvement by moving the ball. My teams have always progressed quickly as passers moreso than shooters.
Rebounding. You can learn positioning, as opposed to just relying on athletic ability to get to a space.
Spacing/Awareness. Working with others gets you a good sense of court feel - where and when you should be.

Lastly:
Defense. You can always improve the degree of your on-mall defense just by committing to it. I'd say defense is probably the easiest, as a good defensive coach can turn around an entire team.

All of these can be easily improved throughout the season with proper coaching, but there's a reason players focus on shooting in the off-season. It takes thousands of shots to improve, and it could all be for naught if you aren't being properly coached, which could be one of two ways: you have a coach reconstruct your shot, or you find a coach that can work with what you already have for mechanics and look for ways to improve it to reach consistency. Both of which take years. Derrick Rose is on year 3, for example. We'll see where Evans is.
 
Comparing a major skill category to skill subcategories is really weak. Of the major skill categories in basketball, shooting is the most commonly improved one beyond the early development years.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
Comparing a major skill category to skill subcategories is really weak. Of the major skill categories in basketball, shooting is the most commonly improved one beyond the early development years.
I know where you're going but even if I accept your point, you have to concede that while very possible that a player may improve his shot, there's no guarantee that he will or that he'll be able to within a few seasons. I like Burks but if it takes 5 seasons for his shot to really come around, where does that leave him on this Kings team in the here and now?

I understand the argument. In the abstract (not even looking at the Kings or their current roster but just as a thought experiment) you can say, "this prospect has everything our team needs except a reliable shot. But he can develop that and be an incredible player". There's a couple reasons teams draft guys who are already great shooters. First is that as mentioned there's no guarantee that a non-shooter becomes decent, let alone great at shooting. The second is that guys that are tremendous, lights out shooters already are most of the way there in college and have a skill that immediately transfers.

In my mind the case has to be made for the player that exists right now and IF he can develop his shot significantly that's a great bonus. But is far from a given that he will.
 
I never tried to make any claims of guarantees. I've also never claimed drafting Burks was about fit, or need. If you want a shooter, get one in the 2nd round, or get one in free agency. If you're drafting 7th in the draft, you take bpa, because there are relatively many options when it comes to getting shooters. In the late 1st/2nd round alone there's Justin Harper, Reggie Jackson, Charles Jenkins, E'twaun Moore, John Leuer, Ben Hansbrough, and Andrew Goudelock.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
I never tried to make any claims of guarantees. I've also never claimed drafting Burks was about fit, or need. If you want a shooter, get one in the 2nd round, or get one in free agency. If you're drafting 7th in the draft, you take bpa, because there are relatively many options when it comes to getting shooters. In the late 1st/2nd round alone there's Justin Harper, Reggie Jackson, Charles Jenkins, E'twaun Moore, John Leuer, Ben Hansbrough, and Andrew Goudelock.
And what I'm saying is that while I like Burks, the argument I'd have to make is that he IS the BPA. Not down the road when he possibly develops his shot, but right now. I think there's still an argument that he is. I'd prefer him over, say, Klay Thompson even though the latter already has shooting because of the other things Burks brings to the table.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
Comparing a major skill category to skill subcategories is really weak. Of the major skill categories in basketball, shooting is the most commonly improved one beyond the early development years.
Hold on there, shooting is a major category, but passing, rebounding and defending aren't? Let me know how it goes when your shooter can't get the ball. I think we should just move on.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Oh please, improved rebounding is not nearly as common as improved shooting. How often can poor rebounders become good rebounders? There are many cases of poor shooters becoming good shooters.
I think it all depends on what you call a good shooter. Some would say that Kidd is a good shooter now. And if you want to narrow it down to having a wide open set shot, he is. But thats it. Kidd can't come off a screen from behind the 3pt line and shoot with any accuracy. If you want to say that players who were bad shooter can become good enought that you have to guard them, I'll agree. But not many players that were bad shooters have become good or great shooters. I think Gerald Wallace might be the usual standard. He's developed into a decent outside shooter. But he's far and away from being a great shooter.

Almost all your truely great outside shooters in the NBA, were good shooters coming out of college. I certainly think Burks will improve, and he doesn't have to improve a whole lot to become a player that might be an all star. But I doubt he'll ever be a guy that shoots over 40% from behind the line.