You must have a very high opinion of Beno, then. Kemba or Knight should get good minutes if the Kings get either one just because they are so much quicker and athletic than Beno. Jimmer seems fairly redundant with Beno, although his shooting range is longer. Jimmer might have a tough time getting minutes if Beno stayed.
With the 7th pick in the 2011 NBA Draft, the Sacramento Kings select .....
- Thread starter sterö
- Start date
I agree with your analysis to a point. My problem lies with the Beno/Thornton/Evans grouping. They have shown great flash and I hope it takes hold and proves the answer for a whole season. However, Thornton is a one third season wonder and in only half that time did he play with Tyreke. Neither Thornton nor Evans is a distributor or a candidate to be one. I would love to draft someone who had real talent to offer as a distributor. Then if our big 3 guards falter or don't fill that need, we would have somebody ready to play and ready to have a chance at more than minimal minutes. The readier to play the better for the 201-2012 Kings. (And going with my inclination here is bound to be a winner! Please note this is my post number 777!!)
Last edited:
They haven't said specifically that they like him, there's been some assumption from the beginning with him projected at the 12th pick. But the rumor is that Knight is hurting his chances by not competing against Walker and Fredette in workouts, and the news today is that Fredette outplayed Walker. If they've soured on Knight, they might decide to go big instead of drafting a PG though. I'd take Knight regardless, and I still think that's what Utah is most likely to do.
Here's an article I just posted in another thread from one of the Utah newspapers.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...ut-for-Utah-Jazz-brass-with-Kemba-Walker.html
I still like knight. But if I have to choose between Kemba and Fredette, I'm taking Fredette. And Apparently he outplayed Walker today in Utah. I realize that some of you out there have this predisposed idea of Fredette, and therefore don't want him on the team. All I can say is that he's going to be a very good player, and he's also a very good fit with the Kings. As to him just being another Beno. With all due respect to Beno, Fredette is a way better shooter than Beno dreams of being.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...ut-for-Utah-Jazz-brass-with-Kemba-Walker.html
I still like knight. But if I have to choose between Kemba and Fredette, I'm taking Fredette. And Apparently he outplayed Walker today in Utah. I realize that some of you out there have this predisposed idea of Fredette, and therefore don't want him on the team. All I can say is that he's going to be a very good player, and he's also a very good fit with the Kings. As to him just being another Beno. With all due respect to Beno, Fredette is a way better shooter than Beno dreams of being.
I've narrowed my disscussion down to whom I think the Kings might pick, and who I think is the best fit. Some of my opinion is based on my own personal opinion of the players, and some is based on feedback from others that have some insights into who the Kings might like or dislike. And also, who I know the Kings went out of their way to personally scout during the season. And by personal, I mean someone like Petrie, Reynolds, or someone from the Kings coaching staff.
Having said all that, I think the Kings like three players in particular, that they think might be available when they pick. Those three players are Kawhi Leonard, Jimmer Fredette, and Jan Vesely. I know for a fact that Petrie personally scouted all three of those players during the season. I heard from Sam Amick that three individuals scouted Vesely last season, two of them being Petrie and Shareef Abdur-Rahim.
Amick said in a podcast, that he had discarded all the hype about Fredette as smokescreen until a couple of days ago, when someone within the Kings organization that he considered a very reliable source told him that it wasn't a smokescreen, and the the Kings liked Fredette a lot. And not just because of his recent workout, but that they liked him during the season. Thats the reason they worked so hard to get him to change his schedule to work out for the Kings.
I've also heard that Petrie likes Leonard, and Amick also reported that. So I think it comes down to those three players, and which one might be available. I think all three of those players are the final default position unless for some reason Knight falls down to the Kings. Probably not likely to happen, so unless Petrie has something up his sleeve, I think one of those guys will be a King. What would make it interesting is if more than one of them is available when the Kings pick.
As for my board, it reflects where I think players will go as well as how I might like a player. And by like, I mean like for the Kings. In the case of Walker and Fredette, I like both guys. I just happen to believe that what Fredette brings fits better on the Kings than what Walker brings. I know you keep implying that Walkers shot will improve. Maybe so! But why gamble when you can draft someone that can basicly do everything Walker can do, except maybe win the 100 yard dash, and is already a great shooter.
Lets be honest here. Neither guy is noted for his defense. And apparently in Utah, Fredette did a better job of defending Walker, than Walker did defending Fredette. I think both guys can become good enough defenders to play in the NBA. There's only one Rondo in the NBA. No one complains about Steve Nash's defense. No one made Bibby's defense an issue when he was here. In Bibby's case, the team played good team defense. If the Kings can add a good individual defender at the SF position and improve their team defense, I don't see a problem.
Having said all that, I think the Kings like three players in particular, that they think might be available when they pick. Those three players are Kawhi Leonard, Jimmer Fredette, and Jan Vesely. I know for a fact that Petrie personally scouted all three of those players during the season. I heard from Sam Amick that three individuals scouted Vesely last season, two of them being Petrie and Shareef Abdur-Rahim.
Amick said in a podcast, that he had discarded all the hype about Fredette as smokescreen until a couple of days ago, when someone within the Kings organization that he considered a very reliable source told him that it wasn't a smokescreen, and the the Kings liked Fredette a lot. And not just because of his recent workout, but that they liked him during the season. Thats the reason they worked so hard to get him to change his schedule to work out for the Kings.
I've also heard that Petrie likes Leonard, and Amick also reported that. So I think it comes down to those three players, and which one might be available. I think all three of those players are the final default position unless for some reason Knight falls down to the Kings. Probably not likely to happen, so unless Petrie has something up his sleeve, I think one of those guys will be a King. What would make it interesting is if more than one of them is available when the Kings pick.
As for my board, it reflects where I think players will go as well as how I might like a player. And by like, I mean like for the Kings. In the case of Walker and Fredette, I like both guys. I just happen to believe that what Fredette brings fits better on the Kings than what Walker brings. I know you keep implying that Walkers shot will improve. Maybe so! But why gamble when you can draft someone that can basicly do everything Walker can do, except maybe win the 100 yard dash, and is already a great shooter.
Lets be honest here. Neither guy is noted for his defense. And apparently in Utah, Fredette did a better job of defending Walker, than Walker did defending Fredette. I think both guys can become good enough defenders to play in the NBA. There's only one Rondo in the NBA. No one complains about Steve Nash's defense. No one made Bibby's defense an issue when he was here. In Bibby's case, the team played good team defense. If the Kings can add a good individual defender at the SF position and improve their team defense, I don't see a problem.
Last edited:
I am very happy that Petrie sent a forward to go look at Vesely. He is tall, very fast, and has magnificent hops. In my view, he looks like Greene except much better. The big question is whether he has much of a shot or can develop much of a shot and how he would do on defense. This is why I am particularly pleased that SAR took a peek. Petrie is a master at finding shooters but Vesely is not a shooter. His upside is a bit theoretical so hence the input of SAR. I think Vesely is the only player where we pick who is exciting like Fredette for whatever that is worth. My opinion.
If it is these three, I would order them as Fredette, Vesely, and Leonard. Vesely is the biggest risk but might have a huge reward.
If it is these three, I would order them as Fredette, Vesely, and Leonard. Vesely is the biggest risk but might have a huge reward.
Ahh, you did let the press release get to you. 
I think Walker played good D in college. (And I'm being very honest). Two steals a game, good rebounder. No one complains about Nash's defense because he is Steve Nash, and there will be only one Steve Nash. But why even bring up Steve Nash when we are talking about Jimmer?
I have just the opposite position on compatibility: Where does Jimmer play on this team? What does he provide that Beno and Thornton don't provide? He's highly redundant in my view. When do you play him? He needs two conditions to play: When Thornton or Beno are having an off shooting night AND when he's not playing against a guard that is offensively gifted that's going to torch him. I can see if they don't sign Thornton, then Jimmer would be a good fallback. You substitute one gunner for another. But barring that happening, I don't see where Jimmer will get minutes. At least with Kemba he can give you quickness and athleticism in the backcourt, something the Kings don't have enough of.
I think Walker played good D in college. (And I'm being very honest). Two steals a game, good rebounder. No one complains about Nash's defense because he is Steve Nash, and there will be only one Steve Nash. But why even bring up Steve Nash when we are talking about Jimmer?I have just the opposite position on compatibility: Where does Jimmer play on this team? What does he provide that Beno and Thornton don't provide? He's highly redundant in my view. When do you play him? He needs two conditions to play: When Thornton or Beno are having an off shooting night AND when he's not playing against a guard that is offensively gifted that's going to torch him. I can see if they don't sign Thornton, then Jimmer would be a good fallback. You substitute one gunner for another. But barring that happening, I don't see where Jimmer will get minutes. At least with Kemba he can give you quickness and athleticism in the backcourt, something the Kings don't have enough of.
And the defense would just clog the lane, daring us to shoot. Fredette is a lights-out shooter, especially if you're comparing him to Beno/Marcus. If Thornton is re-signed, then adding Fredette would double the number of players on our team that can consistently hit an outside shot. Let that one sink in for a while. Jimmer has shown throughout his college years that he can create his own shot if he has to, just like Walker.
I'm really not in the Kemba camp, so I think I'll let this one go as my last parting shot.
I'm really not in the Kemba camp, so I think I'll let this one go as my last parting shot.
Ahh, you did let the press release get to you. I think Walker played good D in college. (And I'm being very honest). Two steals a game, good rebounder. No one complains about Nash's defense because he is Steve Nash, and there will be only one Steve Nash. But why even bring up Steve Nash when we are talking about Jimmer?
I have just the opposite position on compatibility: Where does Jimmer play on this team? What does he provide that Beno and Thornton don't provide? He's highly redundant in my view. When do you play him? He needs two conditions to play: When Thornton or Beno are having an off shooting night AND when he's not playing against a guard that is offensively gifted that's going to torch him. I can see if they don't sign Thornton, then Jimmer would be a good fallback. You substitute one gunner for another. But barring that happening, I don't see where Jimmer will get minutes. At least with Kemba he can give you quickness and athleticism in the backcourt, something the Kings don't have enough of.
I think Walker played good D in college. (And I'm being very honest). Two steals a game, good rebounder. No one complains about Nash's defense because he is Steve Nash, and there will be only one Steve Nash. But why even bring up Steve Nash when we are talking about Jimmer?I have just the opposite position on compatibility: Where does Jimmer play on this team? What does he provide that Beno and Thornton don't provide? He's highly redundant in my view. When do you play him? He needs two conditions to play: When Thornton or Beno are having an off shooting night AND when he's not playing against a guard that is offensively gifted that's going to torch him. I can see if they don't sign Thornton, then Jimmer would be a good fallback. You substitute one gunner for another. But barring that happening, I don't see where Jimmer will get minutes. At least with Kemba he can give you quickness and athleticism in the backcourt, something the Kings don't have enough of.
As for where Fredette will fit, I see him as the heir apparent to Beno. And that could come sooner than later if we draft him. As I've said, and I don't try to denigrate Walker to make my point, I like both guys. I just happen to think that Fredette has better point guard skills, he's bigger, and he's hands down a better shooter. The Kings were at the bottom of the league in 3 pt shooting last season, and adding Walker does nothing to improve that.
It absolutely matters, even if they play the same position (which they don't.) It'll keep the defense honest throughout a greater part of the game as opposed to just that time when one player is on the court. Having to defend against a 3pt shooter for 20 minutes a game vs. 40 minutes a game is a no-brainer.
Beno, Thornton and Jimmer are all hybrids. Jimmer and Thornton are natural gunners, with Beno leaning more to the pg side of the continuum. To me, Thornton is Jimmer with better defense. With Thornton and Jimmer on the court together, who is going to distribute the ball? Jimmer? Who is going to defend the pg on the opposing team? Thornton? So that leaves Jimmer on the 2-guard? Switch it around and it still doesn't work. I don't see a lot of compatibility there. And really, why would you even play Jimmer if you have Thornton? Because Thornton is tired for eight minutes of the game?
Now with Beno and Jimmer, I do see compatibility - on offense. I can definitely see Beno taking the role of a pass first guy and sacrificing his game for Jimmer, Cousins and others. But then we come back to defense, and that tandem looks like disasterville.
Now with Beno and Jimmer, I do see compatibility - on offense. I can definitely see Beno taking the role of a pass first guy and sacrificing his game for Jimmer, Cousins and others. But then we come back to defense, and that tandem looks like disasterville.
That's why we need to TRADE UP! D. Williams has a sweeeeet outside shot.
You mentioned before that part of your analysis was who you thought the Kings were likely to take, and Jimmer looked to be the guy. I really wonder about that. Smoke screen, anyone? Seems like all the back-patting of Jimmer is a little overdone. Jimmer doesn't feel right to me. There has been talk, inferences, and implications, by Reynolds and others that the Kings need quickness in the backcourt. Did you ever get any inkling that they thought they needed to go after another shooter for their backcourt? Did you hear the glimmer of a thought pertaining to that during last season? I sure didn't. Heard a heckuvalot about the 3 positon, but nothing about going out and getting that extra shooter in the backcourt? - NO. Thornton solved that issue. So why all of this Jimmer crush?
D. Williams has a sweeeeet outside shot.You mentioned before that part of your analysis was who you thought the Kings were likely to take, and Jimmer looked to be the guy. I really wonder about that. Smoke screen, anyone? Seems like all the back-patting of Jimmer is a little overdone. Jimmer doesn't feel right to me. There has been talk, inferences, and implications, by Reynolds and others that the Kings need quickness in the backcourt. Did you ever get any inkling that they thought they needed to go after another shooter for their backcourt? Did you hear the glimmer of a thought pertaining to that during last season? I sure didn't. Heard a heckuvalot about the 3 positon, but nothing about going out and getting that extra shooter in the backcourt? - NO. Thornton solved that issue. So why all of this Jimmer crush?
That's why we need to TRADE UP! D. Williams has a sweeeeet outside shot.
You mentioned before that part of your analysis was who you thought the Kings were likely to take, and Jimmer looked to be the guy. I really wonder about that. Smoke screen, anyone? Seems like all the back-patting of Jimmer is a little overdone. Jimmer doesn't feel right to me. There has been talk, inferences, and implications, by Reynolds and others that the Kings need quickness in the backcourt. Did you ever get any inkling that they thought they needed to go after another shooter for their backcourt? Did you hear the glimmer of a thought pertaining to that during last season? I sure didn't. Heard a heckuvalot about the 3 positon, but nothing about going out and getting that extra shooter in the backcourt? - NO. Thornton solved that issue. So why all of this Jimmer crush?
D. Williams has a sweeeeet outside shot.You mentioned before that part of your analysis was who you thought the Kings were likely to take, and Jimmer looked to be the guy. I really wonder about that. Smoke screen, anyone? Seems like all the back-patting of Jimmer is a little overdone. Jimmer doesn't feel right to me. There has been talk, inferences, and implications, by Reynolds and others that the Kings need quickness in the backcourt. Did you ever get any inkling that they thought they needed to go after another shooter for their backcourt? Did you hear the glimmer of a thought pertaining to that during last season? I sure didn't. Heard a heckuvalot about the 3 positon, but nothing about going out and getting that extra shooter in the backcourt? - NO. Thornton solved that issue. So why all of this Jimmer crush?
I think Jimmer's game fits the Kings because he's more than just a shooter, he has much better PG instinct than he's given credit for and a more willing passer than Beno and Tyreke, imo. He ran the pick n roll pretty effectively in college and if he can do the same in the pros then he's going to open things up for the other guys.
I also think Jimmer is among the best players available in the #7 spot. Let's not make light of great three-pt shooters, they are very hard to come by; great shooters who can play PGs are even harder still. If J.J. Redick can run the pick n roll and create his own shots he'd be a star. Jimmer can be that special guy. NBA's next Mark Price.
Last edited:
That's why we need to TRADE UP! D. Williams has a sweeeeet outside shot.
You mentioned before that part of your analysis was who you thought the Kings were likely to take, and Jimmer looked to be the guy. I really wonder about that. Smoke screen, anyone? Seems like all the back-patting of Jimmer is a little overdone. Jimmer doesn't feel right to me. There has been talk, inferences, and implications, by Reynolds and others that the Kings need quickness in the backcourt. Did you ever get any inkling that they thought they needed to go after another shooter for their backcourt? Did you hear the glimmer of a thought pertaining to that during last season? I sure didn't. Heard a heckuvalot about the 3 positon, but nothing about going out and getting that extra shooter in the backcourt? - NO. Thornton solved that issue. So why all of this Jimmer crush?
D. Williams has a sweeeeet outside shot.You mentioned before that part of your analysis was who you thought the Kings were likely to take, and Jimmer looked to be the guy. I really wonder about that. Smoke screen, anyone? Seems like all the back-patting of Jimmer is a little overdone. Jimmer doesn't feel right to me. There has been talk, inferences, and implications, by Reynolds and others that the Kings need quickness in the backcourt. Did you ever get any inkling that they thought they needed to go after another shooter for their backcourt? Did you hear the glimmer of a thought pertaining to that during last season? I sure didn't. Heard a heckuvalot about the 3 positon, but nothing about going out and getting that extra shooter in the backcourt? - NO. Thornton solved that issue. So why all of this Jimmer crush?
1. Point guard
2. Improve Three point shooting
3. Veteran
4. SF
Jimmer fills two of those, the kid is not just another shooter. he runs the pick and roll well, can create his own shot, pass and is a lights out shooter one of if not the best coming out of this draft. knowing GP we may never know who we pick.. i sure hope as hell it isnt leonard.
Are you doing your best to prove you have never watched Jimmer play? To you Jimmer is Thornton? Thornton is a scorer, a pure scorer. There is nothing about Thornton which says pg.
Jimmer on the other hand, set up teammates and ran the pick & roll over, and over, and over again. He starts shooting to keep his team in the game, and really jacks up shots to give BYU the best chance at winning, after watching his teammates brick shot after shot. Would you feel better if Jimmer doesn't didn't shoot, and let his teammates brick their way to one loss after another, and not even sniff the NIT?
Just because a pg can shoot, and in this case is a lights out shooter, doesn't mean he no longer is a pg. What Jimmer did at BYU is no different then what CP3 does with NO, or DWill did with Utah, and I'm using them as examples because they aren't surrounded by much offensive firepower, are pg's, and good shooters. Cp3 and DWill set up and make plays for their teammates for the most part, and look to get them going. Same as Jimmer at BYU. When NO and Utah start struggling, or the game is getting tight, they start looking for their own, as their teams best scorer. Same as Jimmer. You can't fault the best playmaker on the team for also being the best scorer/shooter. Jimmer had absolutely no help.
For you not have seen the countless pick & rolls and draw & kicks Jimmer ran extremely well, and to say he has no pg qualities, means you literally didn't watch him play and are passing judgement, or you literally did not know what you were watching.
Why is it as soon as a pg learns how to shoot, some people question whether he's a pg anymore? It seems now to be considered a "pure" pg, you better not be able to shoot. As soon as you can shoot, you're automatically a combo guard, instead of someone who added to their game.
Jimmer on the other hand, set up teammates and ran the pick & roll over, and over, and over again. He starts shooting to keep his team in the game, and really jacks up shots to give BYU the best chance at winning, after watching his teammates brick shot after shot. Would you feel better if Jimmer doesn't didn't shoot, and let his teammates brick their way to one loss after another, and not even sniff the NIT?
Just because a pg can shoot, and in this case is a lights out shooter, doesn't mean he no longer is a pg. What Jimmer did at BYU is no different then what CP3 does with NO, or DWill did with Utah, and I'm using them as examples because they aren't surrounded by much offensive firepower, are pg's, and good shooters. Cp3 and DWill set up and make plays for their teammates for the most part, and look to get them going. Same as Jimmer at BYU. When NO and Utah start struggling, or the game is getting tight, they start looking for their own, as their teams best scorer. Same as Jimmer. You can't fault the best playmaker on the team for also being the best scorer/shooter. Jimmer had absolutely no help.
For you not have seen the countless pick & rolls and draw & kicks Jimmer ran extremely well, and to say he has no pg qualities, means you literally didn't watch him play and are passing judgement, or you literally did not know what you were watching.
Why is it as soon as a pg learns how to shoot, some people question whether he's a pg anymore? It seems now to be considered a "pure" pg, you better not be able to shoot. As soon as you can shoot, you're automatically a combo guard, instead of someone who added to their game.
Last edited:
Why, praytell, do you think Jimmer is incapable of distributing the ball. He can pass the ball just as well as Kemba can, and you don't seem to have problem with painting Kemba into the picture. Any minutes you think Kemba can get, Jimmer can get. Just because you want to believe that Fredette is nothing but a short shooting guard, doesn't make it so. Just so you know, a lot of the scouts think Kemba is more of shoot first PG than Jimmer is. Frankly, I think both guys can become good PG's in the NBA.
The Kings are probably going to draft Leonard anyway, sot it won't matter.
The Kings are probably going to draft Leonard anyway, sot it won't matter.