I think he needs to smoke a different kind of weed. Marcus is a decent enough shooter, but he's just not quick enough for the SF position. He's terrible at coming off screens, sometimes runing into his own pick while turning the corner, giving his defender time to go under the pick. His best bet is becoming a Carl Landry type PF. He has a very good mid-range shot, and has a nice step back jumper. He's not a very good rebounder, and thats probably why he wants to be a SF. I think his twin brother Markieff will be a better player down the road.
Prospect watch 2011
- Thread starter asakkings
- Start date
A couple of guys that I thought showed well at the combine are Chandler Parsons, and Chris Singleton. Parsons was able to show off a lot of his skills, and I think he'll move up to the top of the second round, and some team may take a shot at him at the bottom of the first. Singleton looked very good in the shooting drills and I'm not sure why he's not ranked higher. While everyone is goinig ga ga over Leonard because of his definsive abilities, Singleton may be the best defender in the entire draft, and at 6'9" he can defend 4 positions. He also may be the best athlete in the entire draft, and at the moment is a better outside shooter than Leonard. The only advantage Leonard has is being a better rebounder, and being younger.
I'm now even higher on Hamilton than I was before. I thought perhaps Leonard had a size advantage on Hamilton. but Leonard measured in at his advertized height of 6'7". But Hamilton, who was thought to also be 6'7", came in at 6'8.5". Whoever drafts Hamilton is going to get a hell of a basketball player. I think he would be a great addition to the Kings, and as I've said before, he's someone that can come in and play right now. And, he's still young. Of course if Petrie really likes him, he's not going to say so.
I'm now even higher on Hamilton than I was before. I thought perhaps Leonard had a size advantage on Hamilton. but Leonard measured in at his advertized height of 6'7". But Hamilton, who was thought to also be 6'7", came in at 6'8.5". Whoever drafts Hamilton is going to get a hell of a basketball player. I think he would be a great addition to the Kings, and as I've said before, he's someone that can come in and play right now. And, he's still young. Of course if Petrie really likes him, he's not going to say so.
I agree with you on Singleton. His biggest advantage over Leonard is that he is a natural SF. Leonard is saying all the right things ... he's telling everyone he is a SF, and he might be .. but we dont know. The risk of drafting Leonard and finding out down the road that he cant play SF for you is actually a big one. Even if he turns into an effective PF .. thats not something we need with DMC/JT and hopefully Dally on board.
At this point, without actually being able to watch either player and how they have improved since the season ended, I would be fine with either player if Petrie picks one of them.
At this point, without actually being able to watch either player and how they have improved since the season ended, I would be fine with either player if Petrie picks one of them.
Earlier in the year after watching Providence play a couple of times, I wrote about Marshon Brooks. I somewhat guardedly mentioned that he reminded me, body language, and playing style of one Kobe Bryant. Not implying of course that he's the next Kobe. So I was stunned while watching the combine on ESPNU when one of the announcers, while talking about Brooks, said that he reminded him of Kobe Bryant. What can I say, great minds think alike.
Interesting that no one on the fourm is even talking about Jeremy Tyler. He showed very well in all the ballhandling and shooting drills. He did well in the agility testing, and showed new found maturity in the interviews. It was reported that a lot of the teams were very impressed with him in the interview process. Not saying we should draft him, but he is young, and a very good athlete. Plus he has terrific size. Wouldn't be much of a gamble in the second round.
Interesting that no one on the fourm is even talking about Jeremy Tyler. He showed very well in all the ballhandling and shooting drills. He did well in the agility testing, and showed new found maturity in the interviews. It was reported that a lot of the teams were very impressed with him in the interview process. Not saying we should draft him, but he is young, and a very good athlete. Plus he has terrific size. Wouldn't be much of a gamble in the second round.
Hopefully this is a video of an interview of Jimmer Fredette at the combine. If its been posted before, I apoligize..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DqTzzOS3C4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DqTzzOS3C4I
An article by Sam Amico, on Fredette, and others post combine.
http://www.foxsportsohio.com/msn/05...ing_cavaliers.html?blockID=526559&feedID=3724
http://www.foxsportsohio.com/msn/05...ing_cavaliers.html?blockID=526559&feedID=3724
I agree, Hamilton's measurements are very solid. Actually changed my perceptions of him quite a bit. He's actually bigger than Kawhi Leonard. Comparing the two, Leonard is much better defensively, and has the better motor, Hamilton is much more skilled offensively. Leonard seemingly, would be the better fit based on team needs. However, I think Hamilton's weaknesses are a little stronger than Leonard's. He's actually a good rebounder as well if not stellar, but he plays hard, and could is closer to NBA average at defense than Leonard is on offense.
I thought Hamilton was going to come in and measure something like 6'7" with shoes and 215 lbs. The fact that he's 6'8" 230 really increases his prospect status. I'd actually put him as the go-to guy now.
I thought Hamilton was going to come in and measure something like 6'7" with shoes and 215 lbs. The fact that he's 6'8" 230 really increases his prospect status. I'd actually put him as the go-to guy now.
Yeah, I'd say that his handles are one of the thngs he needs to work on. They were good enough at the college level to create his own shot, depending on who was playing him. Don't think so in the NBA. Its kind of odd that both Hamilton and Leonard are shorter than him, but both are better rebounders. But if all you want out of him is to be a spot up shooter, and play great defense, then he could start for some team.
I think the knock on Hamilton is that, right or wrong, he's being billed as a scorer. (15 shots a game with 3.4 FTA) And alot of people around here, including myself to a certain extent just dont see the shots here for him.
The thing I really like about Hamilton is that he can play the 2 and post up, which would give us the chance to put him out there with Evans at times and just murder the other teams guards.
Also .. When you look at the potential starting lineup for next season, as much scoring as we have in the starting lineup with Evans/Cousins/Thornton, we could deffinetly use some scoring punch off the bench with Beno and JT. Hamilton can give you that big time. And if we would be drafting Singleton or Leonard for defense at the 3, we could always just start Donte for his defense and bring in Hamilton when we need too. Not that Hamilton is a bad defender, but if we want a player who will focus on defense and require NO shots as a starter, Donte is your guy...
I think Hamilton would be a very good fit if we signed AK47 aswell .. this team has a lot of options.
The truth is, you could make a case for just about anyone right now. There are very few guys I wouldnt like us to draft, because a lot of it comes down to Petries vision for this team.
Out of everyone we have been talking about for the past month or so, the only picks that would really make me scratch my head are Knight/Walker (I just feel we really dont need to be taking a PG that high) and Valaciunas or Vesely.
Irving, Williams, Biyumbo, Kanter, Leonard, Singleton, Hamilton ... All of those guys would be good picks under the right circumstances.
The thing I really like about Hamilton is that he can play the 2 and post up, which would give us the chance to put him out there with Evans at times and just murder the other teams guards.
Also .. When you look at the potential starting lineup for next season, as much scoring as we have in the starting lineup with Evans/Cousins/Thornton, we could deffinetly use some scoring punch off the bench with Beno and JT. Hamilton can give you that big time. And if we would be drafting Singleton or Leonard for defense at the 3, we could always just start Donte for his defense and bring in Hamilton when we need too. Not that Hamilton is a bad defender, but if we want a player who will focus on defense and require NO shots as a starter, Donte is your guy...
I think Hamilton would be a very good fit if we signed AK47 aswell .. this team has a lot of options.
The truth is, you could make a case for just about anyone right now. There are very few guys I wouldnt like us to draft, because a lot of it comes down to Petries vision for this team.
Out of everyone we have been talking about for the past month or so, the only picks that would really make me scratch my head are Knight/Walker (I just feel we really dont need to be taking a PG that high) and Valaciunas or Vesely.
Irving, Williams, Biyumbo, Kanter, Leonard, Singleton, Hamilton ... All of those guys would be good picks under the right circumstances.
Except Donte showed so far he may never improve from now on. Leonard appears to be a 19-year old gym rat so improvements seem very probable. Hamilton appears average at best in terms of lateral quickness so he has little chance to defend 2 effectively unless he's guarding guys like Afflalo and Sefolosha.
I think you've struck at the heart of it. Its not whether Donte has the ability to grow, and become the player he's capable of being. Its whether he has the dedication to become that player or not. So far, I'm not impressed. But at the same time, its hard to throw in the towel on someone with so much potential. This will be Donte's 4th season, and at the very least, his last with the Kings, unless dramatic improvement appears. His biggest problem is consistency. Can anyone name me one thing he's consistent at, other than being inconsistent. Even with JT, while being frustrating on offense at times, you know there are certain things he's going to bring every night. Not so with Donte. Not even with his defense, which borders on spectular to just average from night to night.
If he's around this next season, and I think he will be, due to little trade value, he has to take a giant step forward. I hope he can! I like Donte as a person.
If he's around this next season, and I think he will be, due to little trade value, he has to take a giant step forward. I hope he can! I like Donte as a person.
I don't disagree that Hamilton has a rep as a scorer. Sort of funny how thats suddenly a liability. And actually being called a knock. A couple of years ago, that would have seemed an attractive quality. I hate being redundit, but Hamilton was victim to the same desease as Fredette. His team needed him to be a scorer. So he was! Thus the label.
Obviously I like him, but I don't want to overdue it. There are others I like as well. Its just that I see possible star potential in Hamilton, so I can't just ignore it. I only see three possibilities for the Kings at the SF position, other than moving up in the draft. Leonard, Hamilton, and Singleton. Any of the three would help the team. A fourth possiblilty, in the Dennis Rodman mode, would be Kenneth Faried, who offensively, would be a long term project. He would be a longshot at best.
Of course if the Kings are seriously looking at someone like Iggy, then all bets are off. Doesn't mean they wouldn't still take a look at a Singleton, as someone to come off the bench for defense, but they'd probably look more at a Fredette to give you scoring off the bench. Or a Tristan Thompson, as insurance against not being able to resign Dalembert.
Obviously I like him, but I don't want to overdue it. There are others I like as well. Its just that I see possible star potential in Hamilton, so I can't just ignore it. I only see three possibilities for the Kings at the SF position, other than moving up in the draft. Leonard, Hamilton, and Singleton. Any of the three would help the team. A fourth possiblilty, in the Dennis Rodman mode, would be Kenneth Faried, who offensively, would be a long term project. He would be a longshot at best.
Of course if the Kings are seriously looking at someone like Iggy, then all bets are off. Doesn't mean they wouldn't still take a look at a Singleton, as someone to come off the bench for defense, but they'd probably look more at a Fredette to give you scoring off the bench. Or a Tristan Thompson, as insurance against not being able to resign Dalembert.
If you're looking for your fututre 6th man in this draft, I think our guy would be Kemba. He's a great player but he just doesn't seem to fit next to Reke in the starting line-up and I see Thornton as our future starter next to Teyreke. But I think we can definitely find our future SF-starter in either Hamilton or Leonard.
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As I said in the ideal offseason thread I'd like to see the Kings trade for Iguodala and draft Hamilton to grow into that 6th man role.
I love Fredette and think he'll be a great bench shooter for someone but I'd rather see our guard rotation be Reke/Thornton/Udrih and a vet PG and our bench offense come from the SF spot.
I love Fredette and think he'll be a great bench shooter for someone but I'd rather see our guard rotation be Reke/Thornton/Udrih and a vet PG and our bench offense come from the SF spot.
With the accent on "future" as opposed to next, right? That's the way I have been looking at it. We are drafting a 6th man whether it is a SF or PG or big. We will fill our hole as starting SF elsewhere. I think here the word "upside" is very important. How you measure upside is mystical but a guy who has a work ethic and seems to know his own weaknesses and has a chance of correcting them is the guy I want. I consider a SF vet as a very good placeholder for the next starter at SF. I think the safest pick is Hamilton or Leonard.
It also means to me that we trade Greene and Casspi or maybe Cisco and I'd be curious as to what a trade including any of those might bring. They are not trade fodder or at least Casspi and Cisco have real value. Greene might be best staying with the Kings as he is not worth much but we know him and he fits with the team. He is likeable and some day may wake up and find more motivation to improve his game.
It also means to me that we trade Greene and Casspi or maybe Cisco and I'd be curious as to what a trade including any of those might bring. They are not trade fodder or at least Casspi and Cisco have real value. Greene might be best staying with the Kings as he is not worth much but we know him and he fits with the team. He is likeable and some day may wake up and find more motivation to improve his game.
Apparently Malcom Lee and Josh Selby were pretty impressive at the Minnesota workout. Ironic since both players had far less than impressive seasons. I'm willing to cut Selby more slack since he was suspended for 9 or 10 games at the start of the season, and then missed more games due to injury. So he never got into the flow, and really fit in. Selbys biggest problem is that he has to convince teams he can be a PG, because at 6'1" in shoes, He's a wee bit undersized for the SG position. Unless of course he's the next coming of AI.
Lee came out of highschool very highly regarded, and failed to impress in any of his three years at UCLA. Its been reported that he's completely revamped his jumpshot. It would have to be some serious revamping, because in his three years of college, the dude was absolutely terrible from the outside. His three year average from behind the 3 pt line is 27.8%.
His positives are that he handles the ball very well, and is a good passer. He's also a very good defender. He doesn't rebound the ball very well. If has straightened out his jumpshot, he could be a combo guard in the NBA. I'll have to see it before I believe it. I've watched him play quite a bit, and I really, really tried to like him. I finally game up.
Lee came out of highschool very highly regarded, and failed to impress in any of his three years at UCLA. Its been reported that he's completely revamped his jumpshot. It would have to be some serious revamping, because in his three years of college, the dude was absolutely terrible from the outside. His three year average from behind the 3 pt line is 27.8%.
His positives are that he handles the ball very well, and is a good passer. He's also a very good defender. He doesn't rebound the ball very well. If has straightened out his jumpshot, he could be a combo guard in the NBA. I'll have to see it before I believe it. I've watched him play quite a bit, and I really, really tried to like him. I finally game up.
The thing that gets me about Donte is that early on we saw flashes of a guy that could really offensive rebound. He showed an innate ability to come from nowhere, grab the ball in mid-air and slam it home. That's something you can't teach. That's what made me excited about his talent. But I haven't seen that on the floor for a year and half or so. He's regressed in that area instead of gotten better.
Consistent bench towel waving and organizing pre-game dance! In all seriousness, the dude clowns a bit too much for my taste, although I like the enthusiasm. I think he needs much more serious, mature, and focused approach. I remember when he blocked that Kobe shot how he went crazy with his antics. He seems to live off the frozen moment like it's his signature. Nothing really wrong with being excited but he's had so very few of those moments in all the inconsistancy I just wish he'd dial back some of the jive. He needs to be in the team huddle more. I notice during timeouts most Kings players (especially Beno and all the vets) are involved, attentive to what coach is saying, drawing up. Often Donte is slacking off somewhere, more interested in playing to the crowd constantly. The potential is certainly there, but maybe not the will to really excell.
Pretty much agree. Donte has a lot of talent, but it's his mindset and maturity holding him back. By maturity I mean I don't think he's mature enough as an individual to fully realize the position he is in, and to fully appreciate how much work it will take to elevate his game and consistency. There's absolutely no reason for him to have come back after the last two off season without having improved anything. And I really do mean anything.
Ballhanding is just as poor. Rebounding is worse. FT shooting is worse. Passing is just as poor. 3pt shooting hasn't improved much since his rookie year. His defense isn't consistent, nor is his effort. It is a horrible sign when at his age, 22 going on 23, you can't pick one single thing he's improved at in over 2 years. I will say he's more under control, but to the point he doesn't seem interested in being a threat, or doesn't appear as intense as he could be.
This is also where we need a vet though, who's willing to speak up. When he's not in he huddle, and is off dancing to the crowd, which pisses me off, we need a vet to go ever and say "get your ******* head into the game". Many teams wouldn't put up with their most inconsistent player dancing with the crowd outside of a team huddle. We also need some vets to help set the tone in the lockerroom.
I'm not confident the pregame atmosphere is as serious as it should be, or at halftime. How many times did this team come out sleepwalking? That's a product of being a young team, but at some point we need to bring a couple guys in who can set the tone, and get these guys to buckle down. Someone to teach them. It's something they'll have to learn.
Ballhanding is just as poor. Rebounding is worse. FT shooting is worse. Passing is just as poor. 3pt shooting hasn't improved much since his rookie year. His defense isn't consistent, nor is his effort. It is a horrible sign when at his age, 22 going on 23, you can't pick one single thing he's improved at in over 2 years. I will say he's more under control, but to the point he doesn't seem interested in being a threat, or doesn't appear as intense as he could be.
This is also where we need a vet though, who's willing to speak up. When he's not in he huddle, and is off dancing to the crowd, which pisses me off, we need a vet to go ever and say "get your ******* head into the game". Many teams wouldn't put up with their most inconsistent player dancing with the crowd outside of a team huddle. We also need some vets to help set the tone in the lockerroom.
I'm not confident the pregame atmosphere is as serious as it should be, or at halftime. How many times did this team come out sleepwalking? That's a product of being a young team, but at some point we need to bring a couple guys in who can set the tone, and get these guys to buckle down. Someone to teach them. It's something they'll have to learn.
No no, I don't disagree. Thats why there are always surprises in the draft. Players are forced to play within their college system. And if many cases that hides the abilities of a lot of players, and sometimes stunts their growth. Look how many players, with tremendous athletic ability have come out of the Tennessee system no better than when they went in. Look what happened to Derrick Favors at Georgia Tech. So I agree with you.
I've never questioned Lee's ballhandling abilities or his passing abilities. I know he's a very good defender. All he has to prove to me is that he can shoot the ball. I mean he shot under 30% for his entire career from beyond the 3 pt line at UCLA. If he can do that, he's solid.
I've never questioned Lee's ballhandling abilities or his passing abilities. I know he's a very good defender. All he has to prove to me is that he can shoot the ball. I mean he shot under 30% for his entire career from beyond the 3 pt line at UCLA. If he can do that, he's solid.
I think there is something to the point that Ben Howland plays a system that prepares prospects for the NBA very well, if maybe not preparing them to be highly drafted. Or maybe he's just a better evaluator then coach.
You can add Collison and Mbah a Moute to the list I think of players who's pro careers are better than expected. Afflalo and Farmar too a little but. Actually, even though he was highly rated and recruited, I think Kevin Love is doing very well.
I think you could make the case the Howland teaches NBA-prepratory defensive principles better than anyone in the NCAA. Players seem to hit the ground running. On offense, I think he might restrict guards in particuar from playing freely, but whether its the pace he teaches or adherence to system play, they all seem to be able to advance much more quickly once they hit the league.
Now, I doubt any of this means we should expect Lee to get to Westbrook or even Holiday's level. They both showed more than Lee at UCLA. However, you can pretty much count that Lee will be a high level defender at the pro level...and just a bit better on offense than his UCLA resume would suggest. The defense alone I think will get him a pretty solid NBA career.
You can add Collison and Mbah a Moute to the list I think of players who's pro careers are better than expected. Afflalo and Farmar too a little but. Actually, even though he was highly rated and recruited, I think Kevin Love is doing very well.
I think you could make the case the Howland teaches NBA-prepratory defensive principles better than anyone in the NCAA. Players seem to hit the ground running. On offense, I think he might restrict guards in particuar from playing freely, but whether its the pace he teaches or adherence to system play, they all seem to be able to advance much more quickly once they hit the league.
Now, I doubt any of this means we should expect Lee to get to Westbrook or even Holiday's level. They both showed more than Lee at UCLA. However, you can pretty much count that Lee will be a high level defender at the pro level...and just a bit better on offense than his UCLA resume would suggest. The defense alone I think will get him a pretty solid NBA career.
I'm not a huge fan of Howland's. I'll grant you that his teams always play defense, but offensively, his teams haven't been very good. And, they've been in a slow decline, with poorer incoming classes each year. There was a time when UCLA would at least get one prep that was in the top ten. This next season Calapari has three players in the top ten, and all three are number 1 at their position. UCLA? Zippo! Top 20? Zippo! And I believe, top 30? Zippo!
Now you don't have to get players in the top 30 to win. It helps, but championships have been won without them. Duke has only one player coming in out of the top 30, but he is in the top ten. Right now, UCLA is in a down turn, apparently along with quite a few other teams in the now PAC 12. There was very little star quality in the PAC 10 last year. Derrick Williams being the biggest name. After him, who was the next biggest name that leaps out at you. Issiah Thomas of Washington? Klay Thompson of Washington St.? Nikola Vucevic of USC? Tyler Honeycutt of UCLA?
Can anyone tell me who the best player on Stanford is? Its probably Jeremy Green, but who the hell would know that? I mean, what the heck has happened to the PAC 10? Anyway, I didn't mean to go on a rant. Its just that it saddens me to see UCLA not even being mentioned as one of the top teams in the country at the beginning of the season.
Now you don't have to get players in the top 30 to win. It helps, but championships have been won without them. Duke has only one player coming in out of the top 30, but he is in the top ten. Right now, UCLA is in a down turn, apparently along with quite a few other teams in the now PAC 12. There was very little star quality in the PAC 10 last year. Derrick Williams being the biggest name. After him, who was the next biggest name that leaps out at you. Issiah Thomas of Washington? Klay Thompson of Washington St.? Nikola Vucevic of USC? Tyler Honeycutt of UCLA?
Can anyone tell me who the best player on Stanford is? Its probably Jeremy Green, but who the hell would know that? I mean, what the heck has happened to the PAC 10? Anyway, I didn't mean to go on a rant. Its just that it saddens me to see UCLA not even being mentioned as one of the top teams in the country at the beginning of the season.