Kings trade Landry to Hornets......
- Thread starter BradC79
- Start date
Oh enough with the hyperbole. If we have the money, and nobody else does, 2nd tier FAs will come. You are seriously confused if you think that a guy will take $5mil from Chicago rather than $10mil to play here. We've just rarely had capspace like this to spend, in a year where we intended to spend it. Offer a guy minutes and money and geography begins to sink in importance.
As an aside, I am not entirely sold on Thornton -- could easily be a good numbers on bad team chucker. But here is the reason for the intrigue
09-10 (rookie season)
Feb: 10gms 29.1min 18.8pts (.455 .426 .839) 3.8reb 1.8ast 0.8stl 0.3blk 1.3TO
Mar: 16gms 32.3min 19.9pts (.484 .404 .867) 3.8reb 2.5ast 1.0stl 0.3blk 1.4TO
Apr: 6gms 37.0min 21.7pts (.436 .243 .781) 3.8reb 3.7ast 1.3stl 0.2blk 1.8TO
Now that stretch did not correspond to wins. It came while he and Darren Colison were running around chuck and ducking like young kids in a candy store. But it was a long long stretch of explosive offensive play for a rookie. Such a long stretch that its very hard to call it a fluke. Its just a question with him whether he's destined to beocme another Flip Murray -- undersized scoring guard with offensive pop but no ability to play other positions or defend -- or whether he can up his game on defense and become a solid if undersized traditionally constructed starting shooting guard. With his contract bein up, those numbers do remind a little of another similar sized guard with a 14pp0g scoring average who we auditioned: Rashad McCants.
09-10 (rookie season)
Feb: 10gms 29.1min 18.8pts (.455 .426 .839) 3.8reb 1.8ast 0.8stl 0.3blk 1.3TO
Mar: 16gms 32.3min 19.9pts (.484 .404 .867) 3.8reb 2.5ast 1.0stl 0.3blk 1.4TO
Apr: 6gms 37.0min 21.7pts (.436 .243 .781) 3.8reb 3.7ast 1.3stl 0.2blk 1.8TO
Now that stretch did not correspond to wins. It came while he and Darren Colison were running around chuck and ducking like young kids in a candy store. But it was a long long stretch of explosive offensive play for a rookie. Such a long stretch that its very hard to call it a fluke. Its just a question with him whether he's destined to beocme another Flip Murray -- undersized scoring guard with offensive pop but no ability to play other positions or defend -- or whether he can up his game on defense and become a solid if undersized traditionally constructed starting shooting guard. With his contract bein up, those numbers do remind a little of another similar sized guard with a 14pp0g scoring average who we auditioned: Rashad McCants.
Regardless of what we could have or should have gotten for Martin I think this is a decent deal. But let's not kid ourselves about Thornton. He's a scorer and that's about it right now. He plays no defense and is allergic to passing. This gives us a young scorer with potential but he's not going to help with the one-on-one play dilemma or the lack of perimeter d.
If you want to argue that we could have gotten more, thats one thing. But there is no way to prove that point.
I dont see why anyone would complain about THIS deal though. We traded an expiring 10+ppg scoring big ( who cant rebound and is undersized ) who also plays a position where we are loaded, for a 10+ppg guard who can shoot ( something we need ) at a position of weakness ( Evans and Garcia injured ) who is also younger, and has more room for improvement.
And it helps the team because this clears up more room for Whiteside when he is healthy, and it gives Dalembert more minutes ( he wasnt happy with the little minutes he was getting earlier in the season ) and it may give us a better chance to sign him.
It may not be a major deal with major long term ramifications, but overall it is a positive move.
I dont see why anyone would complain about THIS deal though. We traded an expiring 10+ppg scoring big ( who cant rebound and is undersized ) who also plays a position where we are loaded, for a 10+ppg guard who can shoot ( something we need ) at a position of weakness ( Evans and Garcia injured ) who is also younger, and has more room for improvement.
And it helps the team because this clears up more room for Whiteside when he is healthy, and it gives Dalembert more minutes ( he wasnt happy with the little minutes he was getting earlier in the season ) and it may give us a better chance to sign him.
It may not be a major deal with major long term ramifications, but overall it is a positive move.
He's at least good (probably prefers) playing off the ball, so in the meantime, he should mesh well with a Cousins-centered offense, assuming he brings his shooting talent with him to Sac. Really curious to see how he fits in with both Reke and Cousins though. Unfortunately we have to wait at least 3 weeks, if not until this supposed next season we could be having.
Readying some of your comments, it seems kings fans think Landry is the next Haslem and Thornton is trash. Even if this were a straight up trade with both guys having multi-year deals, Thornton is better. We know was Landry can do, and that's not much if he's not a 6th man playing 25 minutes. Thornton, on the other hand, is younger and has room to grow. He's an explosive SG who can go off and shoot the deep ball, and IMO just what the hornets need coming off the bench and I am quite puzzled as to why they would give that up considering they were going to the playoffs. The one thing they needed was bench production, and they give up two to get one? That doesn't make any sense to me. Considering Landry was unhappy and not re-signing anyway, this deal is totally one-sided IMO.
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Everything I've seen (and I dont remember where exactly) says that he's restricted. So that's a huge plus. Landry was a liability to leave to Houston.
In additino, if you compare their #s, Thorton was close to Martin's production last year, at a much cheaper price. If you had traded 09/10 Thornton for 09/10 Martin (forgetting Landry for a moment), I wouldn't have been all that upset.
Now yes Thornton has struggled this season, but so has Landry. I'm not mad about this trade at all. This team desperately needs shooting, and no longer needs the post play from Landry that it did last year (Cousins covers that). Good deal.
In additino, if you compare their #s, Thorton was close to Martin's production last year, at a much cheaper price. If you had traded 09/10 Thornton for 09/10 Martin (forgetting Landry for a moment), I wouldn't have been all that upset.
Now yes Thornton has struggled this season, but so has Landry. I'm not mad about this trade at all. This team desperately needs shooting, and no longer needs the post play from Landry that it did last year (Cousins covers that). Good deal.
Despite the perception that he may have had a fine rookie season by putting up good scoring numbers last year, there's quite a few red flags to his game. But this being an audition and the fact that Landry wouldn't have lasted that much longer with us, it's a decent deal. Reke's out for the next three weeks, and while Jermaine Taylor might also deserve a shot with his one-trick scoring, Thornton's more proven in this area.
Thornton's best asset is his ability to create shots for himself at a high rate. He's more all-around scorer than shooter--he can get to the basket and jacks up threes at a good rate, all without turning the ball over. But he gives vibes as being a me-first player--he almost never passes the ball (despite hogging it so much), doesn't contribute much in other areas and plays poor defense. Despite that he was still a fringe starter last year, but if his offense collapses he has nothing else to turn to, and it can get ugly. The ballhogging is the biggest red flag--his style of offense (see below) is not good enough to justify it, and he can have problems making an impact if he's not scoring, so there might be no middle ground with him. He needs to hog the ball and score, or he needs to be benchwarmer.
Another thing--I think Thornton's near the tip of his upside already--traditionally players with low turnover rates don't tend to improve as much in subsequent reasons, and Thornton really takes care of the ball, for better and for worse in this respect. Also, he's only a one-area player--that of scoring, so the only area where he can improve is his scoring efficiency, but he appears to be just a above average (not elite) three point shooter and a below average finisher, and even though he slashes at a decent rate he's extremely poor at drawing fouls, so he isn't a real natural offensive player. He's just got good scoring instincts and can create shots easily for himself at will, but that's relatively typical for guards of his ilk. In fact it could run of the mill type stuff, and he could go the way of a dime-a-dozen undersized shooting guard chucker if his work ethic/lack of development isn't up to snuff (a la Flip Murray/Rashad McCants, and that might be why he was in Monty Williams' doghouse this season).
Thornton's best asset is his ability to create shots for himself at a high rate. He's more all-around scorer than shooter--he can get to the basket and jacks up threes at a good rate, all without turning the ball over. But he gives vibes as being a me-first player--he almost never passes the ball (despite hogging it so much), doesn't contribute much in other areas and plays poor defense. Despite that he was still a fringe starter last year, but if his offense collapses he has nothing else to turn to, and it can get ugly. The ballhogging is the biggest red flag--his style of offense (see below) is not good enough to justify it, and he can have problems making an impact if he's not scoring, so there might be no middle ground with him. He needs to hog the ball and score, or he needs to be benchwarmer.
Another thing--I think Thornton's near the tip of his upside already--traditionally players with low turnover rates don't tend to improve as much in subsequent reasons, and Thornton really takes care of the ball, for better and for worse in this respect. Also, he's only a one-area player--that of scoring, so the only area where he can improve is his scoring efficiency, but he appears to be just a above average (not elite) three point shooter and a below average finisher, and even though he slashes at a decent rate he's extremely poor at drawing fouls, so he isn't a real natural offensive player. He's just got good scoring instincts and can create shots easily for himself at will, but that's relatively typical for guards of his ilk. In fact it could run of the mill type stuff, and he could go the way of a dime-a-dozen undersized shooting guard chucker if his work ethic/lack of development isn't up to snuff (a la Flip Murray/Rashad McCants, and that might be why he was in Monty Williams' doghouse this season).
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Luther Head is five years older than Thornton. He is what he is. Thornton is only 23 years old, so I don't think you can label him just yet. I liked Thornton quite a bit coming out of college. He's a good shooter that can create his own shot, and in college he was a pretty good defender. Why don't you try and keep an open mind.
Hornets to acquire Landry
The Hornets are close to completing a trade for Sacramento Kings forward Carl Landry, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
The Kings will receive guard Marcus Thornton and cash from New Orleans. The deal is expected to be finalized on Wednesday.
The Kings held Landry out of Tuesday’s loss in Miami. Sacramento coach Paul Westphal told reporters Landry didn’t play because he was involved in trade talks.
Landry has one year left on his contract at $3 million.
– Marc J. Spears, 11:29 p.m. Feb. 22
So just Marcus Thorton and cash??
The Hornets are close to completing a trade for Sacramento Kings forward Carl Landry, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
The Kings will receive guard Marcus Thornton and cash from New Orleans. The deal is expected to be finalized on Wednesday.
The Kings held Landry out of Tuesday’s loss in Miami. Sacramento coach Paul Westphal told reporters Landry didn’t play because he was involved in trade talks.
Landry has one year left on his contract at $3 million.
– Marc J. Spears, 11:29 p.m. Feb. 22
So just Marcus Thorton and cash??
I don't think it's nonsense. It's a valid point.
We all have hopes that a new CBA shall drastically alter the landscape, and it might. I very much doubt that a new CBA shall force any team to renounce their top talent.
We still might have a bunch of very good players available, and frankly, some solid role players is what the team needs most anyway. However, for that, you don't need lot of cap space. I doubt that we shall, nor should we, spend all the cap space on solid role players. Pretty soon, we shall need to extend Reke, DMC, etc.. Per the current CBA, we don't need cap space for that, but might under the new one (and even under the current CBA, it won't be sensible to go too far over the cap to keep our own players).
The team is a few years away from anything important. No major FA on the horizon is going to change that overnight. Spending lot of money on role players shall be a bad plan.
That said, cap space can be a huge asset, like OKC proved over the last few years, renting out their space to help teams get under LT, and picking up assets. The owners need to take on short term salary for that, and we have been avoiding that lately.
We all have hopes that a new CBA shall drastically alter the landscape, and it might. I very much doubt that a new CBA shall force any team to renounce their top talent.
We still might have a bunch of very good players available, and frankly, some solid role players is what the team needs most anyway. However, for that, you don't need lot of cap space. I doubt that we shall, nor should we, spend all the cap space on solid role players. Pretty soon, we shall need to extend Reke, DMC, etc.. Per the current CBA, we don't need cap space for that, but might under the new one (and even under the current CBA, it won't be sensible to go too far over the cap to keep our own players).
The team is a few years away from anything important. No major FA on the horizon is going to change that overnight. Spending lot of money on role players shall be a bad plan.
That said, cap space can be a huge asset, like OKC proved over the last few years, renting out their space to help teams get under LT, and picking up assets. The owners need to take on short term salary for that, and we have been avoiding that lately.