Simmons on DMC and Reke's Trade value...what say you guys?

[Geoff]

The full article is at: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110217

The comments on DMC and Reke are excerpted below:
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46. DeMarcus Cousins
So rarely in sports does someone live up to the hype. We thought Notorious D.M.C. could be a dominant scorer/rebounder AND a once-in-a-generation head case who immediately polarized fans and media members … yes and yes! In the past three weeks alone, he dropped a 27-10 on the Lakers, a 25-14 on Utah, a 19-15 on Dallas and a few punches on teammate Donte Greene's head, then subsequently got banned from a team plane and suspended. I want the opposite of a full refund for the DMC Experience. I'd like to pay twice. Let's run it back. And by the way? If I were a GM, I'd be calling Sacramento every day trying to get him. Repeat: Every day. You just never know when you might catch Geoff Petrie in a moment of weakness. It's coming.

39. Tyreke Evans
This year's winner of the Sidney Wicks Memorial "I Know He's Putting Up Stats, And I Know He's Talented, But Man, It Seems Like His Teammates Hate Playing With Him" Award. I continue to believe "24/7: The 2010-11 Sacramento Kings" could have been the greatest HBO show of all time. Even better than "The Sopranos" and "G-String Divas." Coming up next time on "24/7": A friendly Monopoly game between DeMarcus and Tyreke's high school buddies goes horribly wrong …

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I haven't been able to see many Kings games, but is that last part true?

 

[Spike]

And by the way? If I were a GM, I'd be calling Sacramento every day trying to get him. Repeat: Every day.

This part is true. The stats and games don't seem to bear out any truth about playing with Evans. That's just ridonkulous.

 

[rhythmless]

I haven't been able to see many Kings games, but is that last part true?

Omri, Beno, and DMC has at times been visibly frustrated at the lack of ball movement and passing. Omri and Beno don't always get the ball when it looks to be the right pass made. Tyreke seems to not really pass the ball off on breaks unless he is forced to.

Landry has publicly lamented the lack of ball movement. Is it against Tyreke? No one has named him thus far, but as the guy with the highest usage rate, and a high usage rate in the NBA, he would seem to be the culprit.

I don't know if I would say they hate playing with him, but I see visible frustration when I watch games.

 

[rhythmless]

This part is true. The stats and games don't seem to bear out any truth about playing with Evans. That's just ridonkulous.

Look @ usage rate and assist ratio. Also look at his fg percentages. A guy having the ball that often, shooting such a low percentage. It would be logical to assume that at least some of his teammates would think that the ball would be better off being shot by someone who had a higher chance of making them. If I was Beno it would certainly cross my mind.

 

[Spike]

Look @ usage rate and assist ratio. Also look at his fg percentages. A guy having the ball that often, shooting such a low percentage. It would be logical to assume that at least some of his teammates would think that the ball would be better off being shot by someone who had a higher chance of making them. If I was Beno it would certainly cross my mind.

Yeah, but this team isn't full of shooters. Countless times his teammates have missed open shots from good feeds. Hate is a word that shouldn't be bandied about so recklessly, but it is Bill Simmons, who initially didn't think Evans would amount to much anyway.

 

[91sickness]

Wouldn't it be great if we had a coach that was more concerned with the growth of the team than the growth of Tyreke's stats? PW needs to be all over Reke whenever he makes a bad play or makes the wrong play. He needs to be teaching this young team how to play TEAM ball rather than just letting Reke run around out there doing whatever he wants. Did anyone else catch the Spurs game a few nights ago where Pop called a time out 2 minutes into the game, tied at 2 and ripped into Duncan? Ya Duncan, the franchise player who has won multiple championships, to tell him he totally blew it and needs to get it together. I wish Westphal would do more teaching and get this team playing team ball. Reke is becoming a ball hog and its obvious while watching games and listening to what the guys on the team have to say. I love Reke just as much as anyone here but I would love him even more if he would pass the ball more often and become a better "PG" for this team. If he was a better PG we would have been able to make him n martin work in the backcourt. We also wouldnt have Beno starting to cover up reke's lack of pg skills. I am a firm believer that his growth as a pg is the key to this teams future success. Westphal needs to be leading the charge in developing that growth...and hes not.

 

[rhythmless]

Yeah, but this team isn't full of shooters. Countless times his teammates have missed open shots from good feeds. Hate is a word that shouldn't be bandied about so recklessly, but it is Bill Simmons, who initially didn't think Evans would amount to much anyway.

Agreed, we need better shooters, but that's why I specifically referenced Casspi and Beno. They are good spot shooters, and you can see them with their hands up in an open spot and not get the ball. There are more glimpses of passing from Tyreke this year than last, but you can really see the difference when Pooh comes in. The offense runs smoother, and fastbreaks have better spacing and passing. If Tyreke could run the point as well as Pooh can, I would be satisfied.

Bill Simmons is an entertainment writer. He doesn't take his writing seriously, so neither should we. But he is the best on ESPN as far as writing goes, imo. Far more cognizant of individual fan biases, fanbases and generally writes like he has his ear to the ground far more than the other drones.

 

[rainmaker]

Entertaining article. Don't agree with everything though.

Yes, I would agree there are times when teammates don't enjoy playing with Tyreke. It's also a product of our roster, where Pooh is the only natural pg, who seems to already know when and where to get guys the ball. But our team really is a pee poor passing team all around, except for Pooh and Cousins.

Beno is good, but still a combo guard. Omri is horrible at passing, Same as Landry. Dally is good on occasion, but can be pretty careless. JT is ok at times, and makes completely boneheaded decisions with the ball other times. Donte is not good at passing. Cisco is average at best, but still makes rookie mistakes with the ball. Head speaks for himself.

Tyreke is improving in that area though, and continues to set up teammates who continue to brick open shot after open shot. So yes, I'm sure these guys get fustrated with Tyreke sometimes, but I'm also sure they get fustrated with others on this team who can't pass well either. At the same time, we've seen what these guys are capable of without Tyreke, and that's getting blown off the court, as well as giving up over 121 pts per game. So while they might be fustrated, this team isn't nearly as competitive without him on the floor. A few of our guys who clearly look fustrated at times on the court when Tyreke misses them when they're open, are horrible passers themselves. The pot calling the kettle black?

How about someone besides Beno hit a decent % from the perimeter, and someone else besides Cousins show they can be a consistent scoring threat before complaining about getting the ball all the time? Tyreke's fg% has shot up over the past 6 weeks, and he's been over 45% from the field in 2011, while everyone else not named Cousins is watching they're fg% plummet.

 

[rhythmless]

btw, anyone else read this and think it will foreshadow DMC's career?

"The same thing that makes Garnett great (his intensity) also leads to casualties (everything else). Just know that if he played for your team, you would love this bald, blathering maniac just as much as Boston fans do. You would."

 

[juicij36]

Did anyone else catch the Spurs game a few nights ago where Pop called a time out 2 minutes into the game, tied at 2 and ripped into Duncan? Ya Duncan, the franchise player who has won multiple championships, to tell him he totally blew it and needs to get it together.

Yep, saw it. Go0d stuff.

 

[Section 101]

Tyreke's fg% has shot up over the past 6 weeks, and he's been over 45% from the field in 2011, while everyone else not named Cousins is watching they're fg% plummet.

He's at 45.5% the last 10 games. His season average is 41.1. Improvement yes. But I wouldnt call it shooting up. He's basically at the same % as last year for the last 10 games.

 

[Arkitect]

He's at 45.5% the last 10 games. His season average is 41.1. Improvement yes. But I wouldnt call it shooting up. He's basically at the same % as last year for the last 10 games.

However his 3pt% has shot up to an almost respectable 32% over the last 10 games. A significant improvement over last year. Same with his ft%. Its up to 85% over the last 10 games. It also has come against several of the top defensive teams in the league. It may be a hot streak or he may be figuring out how to play on his injured feet better. Regardless, he has been better than ever the last 10 games.

 

[kingsboi]

I say....there hasn't been much love from two writers in the past couple of days alone on our two players. First the whole sophomore ranking with Tyreke being 11th, Laugh out loud. Then this. It's something to read and laugh at for sure, just glad I am not a subscriber.

 

[Bricklayer]

Remember this is a comedian we are reading here, not an analyst. He's always looking for angles and the absurd, feels no qualms at all developing prejudices or favorite lines of attack. This is like getting worked up one way or the other by a Jay Leno monologue.

As an aside, the temmates hate Tyreke make for a better line than reality. Pretty much last year you had Omri's ego chafing, but haven't heard a peep this season as I think his play may have humbled him a bit. Landry has indeed chafed because he needs the ball for his contract push, but is it against Tyreke, the offense, the lack of minutes? Who knows. Its also of course terribly hypocritical given that he is one of the league's great blackholes himself. And then you have this one incident with Boogie, which was just childish. Meanwhile Beno and Reke play well together, Donte and Jason rather obviously thrive with him in there, Cisco has his back, and Daly seems to work fine with everybody (and indeed, even if you are somebody who wants to pin a forked tail on Reke, after 6-7 years of starting alongisde Iverson there is no way anybody on our little team is going to bother Daly).

 

[JoMama]

Simmons is an entertaining read and probably isn't far from the truth on both players. Too bad there aren't more talented writers and observers of basketball posting online.

 

[Lockehead]

Remember this is a comedian we are reading here, not an analyst. He's always looking for angles and the absurd, feels no qualms at all developing prejudices or favorite lines of attack. This is like getting worked up one way or the other by a Jay Leno monologue.

As an aside, the temmates hate Tyreke make for a better line than reality. Pretty much last year you had Omri's ego chafing, but haven't heard a peep this season as I think his play may have humbled him a bit. Landry has indeed chafed because he needs the ball for his contract push, but is it against Tyreke, the offense, the lack of minutes? Who knows. Its also of course terribly hypocritical given that he is one of the league's great blackholes himself. And then you have this one incident with Boogie, which was just childish. Meanwhile Beno and Reke play well together, Donte and Jason rather obviously thrive with him in there, Cisco has his back, and Daly seems to work fine with everybody (and indeed, even if you are somebody who wants to pin a forked tail on Reke, after 6-7 years of starting alongisde Iverson there is no way anybody on our little team is going to bother Daly).

Theres some merit to it. This isnt the first time theres been questions about Tyrekes ability to play within a team system.

 

[kennadog]

Evans had that reputation from almost the start of last season, when he'd barely played. DMC had everybody calling him a major head case before the draft and up to now. Is there any truth to those characterizations? Maybe some, but it is grossly exagerated in both cases and may not even be true in reality.

It comes almost entirely from outside observers, who have no real evidence to support their pre-determined opinion. No one on the Kings or from the organization has said anything so blatant. Even on this board people read things into players comments, which is often what they want to read into the comments. Too often statements are made as though they are fact, when it is only someone's opinion or interpretation.

Of course our players look and sound frustrated. They are LOSING a lot! That would frustrate any serious athlete. Tyreke is hardly the only player that doesn't move the ball. I've seen plenty of people guilty of that sin. Nobody on our team should be frustrated with anybody else, until they've improved their own games, especially defensively, which is far more of a deficiency to me than lack of ball movement. We score (except at the foul line, where the Kings are not good), we just have trouble stopping the other team from scoring.

 

[Bricklayer]

Theres some merit to it. This isnt the first time theres been questions about Tyrekes ability to play within a team system.

Actually yes it largely is -- its the same complaint, and actualy coming from the same quarters still not willing to let it go. Remember Simmons was the guy who had to issue a public mea culpa because he thought Reke would be a bust and we were idiots for taking him in the draft. Sam Amick was pretty much sleeping with Kevin Martin by the end of his stay here and his whole "Reke can't play with others" spin has continued on unabated not because Reke can't play with others, but because Kevin couldn't play with Reke. People get atttached to their little dialogs and fall back to them at the first opportunity.

 

[ParniValjak]

These sort of columnists are as fickle as a bunch of uneducated fans. Their opinion vairies from game to game, week to week! There was that laughable article from Thorpe about Evans being the 11th best player from last 2 drafts...its good to see that Kevin Martin homerism alive and kicking.

Simmons is more about entertainment than actual basketball analysis so these sort of columns should be read for what they are...a written piece to get some sort of fan reaction.

I can safely say that there would not be many players in the league I would trade Evans or Cousins for. We are lucky in a fact that we have 2 of the biggest young studs in the game on our team. They make mistakes and they WILL get better especially the more time they play together. I think their games are meshing well and the chemistry and understanding is coming along. We are set for years to come but some of these "experts" wouldn't have watched 5 kings games this season but that still doesn't stop them from giving a definitive opinion!

 

[Larry David]

Theres some merit to it. This isnt the first time theres been questions about Tyrekes ability to play within a team system.

While this was written to entertain, Simmons point (on his podcasts) has been that Evans is putting up great numbers and is a real talent ... but it remains to be seen if his style of play will lead to winning basketball. I think that's a fair question.

 

[Geoff]

Did you mean "more talented writers" in the quantitative or qualitative sense? In either case, there are many additional and much better writers out there. However, they don't tend to have the same fanfare that results from a gigantic direct link on the front page of espn.com (which might be what you meant by "online"). I don't find his snippets on Tyreke or Cousins in this article troubling. My criticism of him goes beyond his player analysis. If he truly believes the hype his fans tend to give him as a good writer, he should be embarrassed for some of the thoughts he spouts out and techniques he uses to express them.

Thoughts like what? He's not the one who put his link on the front page, and he wouldn't be there if he had no talent at all. I like his writing style and I like to hear his opinions, even if I don't always agree with them.

I'll be the first to admit that Simmons isn't a sports journalist like Michael Wilbon or Jemele Hill (two of the ESPN writers I like) but that doesn't lessen what he does and I think that limiting him as an entertainment writer isn't quite accurate. What should and shouldn't embarrass is in the beholder's eye; could be that what you think is embarrasing is in fact what keeps him popular.

He does what he does, and what he does has carried him thus far. Can't argue with success...

 

[Spike]

Thoughts like what? He's not the one who put his link on the front page, and he wouldn't be there if he had no talent at all. I like his writing style and I like to hear his opinions, even if I don't always agree with them.

I'll be the first to admit that Simmons isn't a sports journalist like Michael Wilbon or Jemele Hill (two of the ESPN writers I like) but that doesn't lessen what he does and I think that limiting him as an entertainment writer isn't quite accurate. What should and shouldn't embarrass is in the beholder's eye; could be that what you think is embarrasing is in fact what keeps him popular.

He does what he does, and what he does has carried him thus far. Can't argue with success...

ESPN's Page 2 isn't exactly the paragon of journailstic integrity.

 

[Larry David]

What he fails to do is look beyond wins and losses and inquire further by asking, "Does Tyreke's style of play lead to a more competitive Kings team than without?" What did Brick's Grades show the other day? That the Kings allow 120 points per game without Tyreke or something? I think that in spite of the win/loss record, inquiring that question first makes the answer to Simmons' question obvious.

On the other hand, maybe Simmons meant to ask, "Can Tyreke's style of play result in him turning into Jesus and win 50 games on a team using the minimum payroll allowed all by himself?" To which the answer is also obvious. No. There's really no question with regard to how Tyreke affects a program. But Simmons babbles about it for entertainment purposes. It's a kind of "What's going to happen next?" effort instead of just freaking telling us the answer.

No it does not. Does Evans make this team better, yes. He makes this a 20 win team as opposed to 7. Steve Francis made the Rockets better, but you were never going to play in June with Steve Francis on your team.

That's his issue with Evans. What do the numbers mean? The NBA is filled with guys that can put up numbers without getting anywhere near wins. Like Maggette. And vice versa.

The point isn't that Evans should lead the Kings to 45 wins this year. But instead, how does Evans fit on a good team. Case in point, if the Thunder could have their pick between Curry or Evans ... I think they take Curry, while Evans is the better player.

If I plug in Curry, I'm winning at least 7 more games. Evans has even more upside, but it might not work at all. That's his point.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I like Simmons. I like his podcasts, I read all his stuff on ESPN ... he a funny dude, and he's easy to read.

But if anyone listened to his podcast about this topic you already know how absurd some of his arguments were. I simply dont expect him to know more about the Kings and there players then I do. Its not why I read his work.

 

[Gary]

I haven't been able to see many Kings games, but is that last part true?

IMHO I agree with the report on this issue. Ball movement is at times just terrible. In my personal opinion I think the Kings would do much better as a team if we traded Evans for Granger, and then drafted a guy like Kyrie Irving than if we kept Evans then tried to draft a PG to take the ball out of Evans hands. Evans isn't very good w/o the ball and hasn't been since college. That was a major flaw of his coming into the NBA.

I know I am going to get flack for saying this but I don't think we can win much if we spend years trying to figure out who can fit with Evans rather than finding a traditional sg/pg/sf combo to play with Cousins. The play we have right now is just too stale.

 

[Lockehead]

Actually yes it largely is -- its the same complaint, and actualy coming from the same quarters still not willing to let it go. Remember Simmons was the guy who had to issue a public mea culpa because he thought Reke would be a bust and we were idiots for taking him in the draft. Sam Amick was pretty much sleeping with Kevin Martin by the end of his stay here and his whole "Reke can't play with others" spin has continued on unabated not because Reke can't play with others, but because Kevin couldn't play with Reke. People get atttached to their little dialogs and fall back to them at the first opportunity.

Ive been watching Reke since hes been with the Kings. And i think he could do better in the teamwork department. Is that so bad? I couldnt care less about K-mart or what the media says. I watch nearly every Kings game, and what happens on the basketball court is what im interested in. And i just so happen to notice that Tyreke, who is a big part of our future, prefers individual play over team play a bit more than he should. Could a fan give that opinion about arguably the teams most important player without being lumped into a category of being biased in one way or another?

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I know I am going to get flack for saying this but I don't think we can win much if we spend years trying to figure out who can fit with Evans rather than finding a traditional sg/pg/sf combo to play with Cousins. The play we have right now is just too stale.

I disagree. Evans has been with us for a year and a half and we havent 'found' him anything. He has been paired up with Beno pretty much this entire time, and together they have worked out about as good as you could expect. And I dont think it is very hard to see what kind of player Evans would work out best with. Give him a defender who can handle the ball some and shoot and I think your set back there. Beno would be perfect is he wasnt so terrible on defense. You can actually see how good they work when Beno has a rare solid game defensively.

And the SF needs to be able to shoot, defend, have some off the dribble scoring. I love Danny Granger for that spot. Love him. And I wouldnt think twice about trading our pick this year for him.

Evans hasnt been the problem guys. His FOOT has been a big problem. Production out of the SF and PF spot has been a big problem. Production out of the bench (Landry has been bad all year) has been a problem.

I just dont see why some folkes here think that building a team around Demarcus and Evans will be so hard. We know what both guys can do, and what they cant do. We have plenty of caproom to go out and sign players who fit.

 

[Gary]

I disagree. Evans has been with us for a year and a half and we havent 'found' him anything. He has been paired up with Beno pretty much this entire time, and together they have worked out about as good as you could expect. And I dont think it is very hard to see what kind of player Evans would work out best with. Give him a defender who can handle the ball some and shoot and I think your set back there. Beno would be perfect is he wasnt so terrible on defense. You can actually see how good they work when Beno has a rare solid game defensively.

And the SF needs to be able to shoot, defend, have some off the dribble scoring. I love Danny Granger for that spot. Love him. And I wouldnt think twice about trading our pick this year for him.

Evans hasnt been the problem guys. His FOOT has been a big problem. Production out of the SF and PF spot has been a big problem. Production out of the bench (Landry has been bad all year) has been a problem.

I just dont see why some folkes here think that building a team around Demarcus and Evans will be so hard. We know what both guys can do, and what they cant do. We have plenty of caproom to go out and sign players who fit.

Yah but I think it would be easier to build a team around Cousins than Evans. Evans doesn't move the ball much which leaves out the other 4 players on the floor quite a bit. It doesn't help to have a great player on the floor with Evan when that great player never gets to do anything. It might as well just be a role player. That's why there wasn't much difference between Beno and Martin. Martin clearl is better than Beno but neither could really win anything with Evans because Evans makes other players around him about the same whether they are good or average.

That's why I feel that if we did bring in a distributing PG (who doesn't have to be as talented as Evans) who knows how to distribute, and a SG like Granger the team would be better. Plus I think Casspi would feel more comfortable with his role on the team and play better. His consistency seems to have a lot to do with whether he gets touches or not. You can see it in his body language. The games where he doesn't get touches he will take quick shots when he finally gets the ball. The games where the is distribution Casspi will pass it around the 3pt line from one end to the other to get an open look for a team mate. It's night and day when this team isn't playing 1v1 ball.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yah but I think it would be easier to build a team around Cousins than Evans. Evans doesn't move the ball much which leaves out the other 4 players on the floor quite a bit. It doesn't help to have a great player on the floor with Evan when that great player never gets to do anything. It might as well just be a role player. That's why there wasn't much difference between Beno and Martin. Martin clearl is better than Beno but neither could really win anything with Evans because Evans makes other players around him about the same whether they are good or average.

That's why I feel that if we did bring in a distributing PG (who doesn't have to be as talented as Evans) who knows how to distribute, and a SG like Granger the team would be better. Plus I think Casspi would feel more comfortable with his role on the team and play better. His consistency seems to have a lot to do with whether he gets touches or not. You can see it in his body language. The games where he doesn't get touches he will take quick shots when he finally gets the ball. The games where the is distribution Casspi will pass it around the 3pt line from one end to the other to get an open look for a team mate. It's night and day when this team isn't playing 1v1 ball.

In know the fanbase has turned to garbage and everything, but did people really completely stop watching by December? Why should I have to sit here and rebut these ludicrous arguments time and time again just becuase I was apparently the only watching while Tyreke Evans averaged 21pts a game for the last month while DeMarcus Cousins blew up, started averaging close to 20-10, adn had multiple monster nights. And these are two absolute KIDS by NBA standards and they have started putting the hurt to opponents to the tune of maybve a combined 40pts 15rebs and 8 assists or so.

And yet here I am again, having to refute some nonsense about how Evans dominates the ball so Cousins can't get his. And this less than a week after I posted stats showing that Cousins actually gets to shoot the ball MORE than Evans, less than two weeks since we engaged in a series of nightl;y scrimmages wiht teams with 2x our payroll and went down to the wire every single night. Where were you?

Change the dialogue people. February is not December for us. December was not October for us. Things change and grow rapidly wiht a young team.

 

[Kingster]

Tyreke doesn't pass the ball enough? Can we start with that premise? He dribbles a lot; the ball sticks to him, he rarely whips it around the perimeter to get a hockey assist. Dribbling is his thing. He's comfortable doing it. It's the dribble drive that separates him from mere mortals. That's what makes him special so it's not something that he easily relinquishes.

I've seen Tyreke on fast breaks just ignore an open Beno. I've seen him numerous times ignoring an open Casspi. Is it intentional? I believe it is. It's a pattern. Tyreke has demonstrated on numerous occassions that he has good vision. He just doesn't want to pass the ball. Does the selfish gene control Tyreke's behavior? There's probably some of that. It's also habitual, and habits are hard to break. Like Cousins, he's got some maturing to do.

Last year I thought Tyreke would show me more "point" skills this year. He seemed to have the aptitude. But he doesn't have the disposition apparently. If that's the case, then the Kings need another guard to predominantly handle the ball and indirectly curb Tyreke's non-passing on the court.