LeBron James may have a planet-sized ego, BUT...
- Thread starter Mr. S£im Citrus
- Start date
Didn't want to watch it, but couldn't resist.
And I agree with Slim, Cleveland had 7 years with LeBron, and they couldn't quite get there. He's putting his $$ where his mouth is, and apparently taking a pay cut to win it all. Not quite Malone/Payton carpetbagging, as this is a new team they're assembling.
Still, would have preferred that he stayed.
And I agree with Slim, Cleveland had 7 years with LeBron, and they couldn't quite get there. He's putting his $$ where his mouth is, and apparently taking a pay cut to win it all. Not quite Malone/Payton carpetbagging, as this is a new team they're assembling.
Still, would have preferred that he stayed.
Eh... Sure, Dream in his prime dominated a young Shaq, no question. And then, the next time they faced in the playoffs, Shaq was in his prime, and he dominated Dream. In the final analysis, they're 1-1 against each other in the playoffs, and Shaq has more rings. Why would you consider Dream to be better?
No offense, but this post is incredibly dumb. Not only did all the greatest players NOT win with the teams they started with, as has been demonstrated in this thread, some of the greatest players didn't even win. [rant]Charles Barkley was just on NBATV complaining about how it would have meant more if LeBron had done something special in Cleveland, but didn't Sir Charles force his way onto the Rockets Dream Squad in '99? Wasn't that after he forced his way out of Philly to go play with Kevin Johnson and Co.?[/rant]
Secondly, Kobe hasn't won **** without another top ten player on his team. Couldn't even get out of the first round. Meanwhile, LeBron was taking the Harlem Globetrotters to the NBA Finals.
Secondly, Kobe hasn't won **** without another top ten player on his team. Couldn't even get out of the first round. Meanwhile, LeBron was taking the Harlem Globetrotters to the NBA Finals.
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Most people didn't know how good Pau Gasol was. He was no less than the third best big man in the NBA when he got traded. Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett(?), Pau Gasol. Maybe Elton Brand goes ahead of him at the time. And maybe he wasn't considered top ten at the time. He's top ten now, and it's not about Kobe's great post-entry passes. It's because he is more skilled offensively than any other big in the game.
And who exactly went to Cleveland, in their prime, and regressed as a player?
And who exactly went to Cleveland, in their prime, and regressed as a player?
Well, to be fair.. the Cavs ARE in the East and Lebron took them to the finals in 2007 which was really, the Easts final bad year. Since then, in a more competitive East, the Cavs never made it back. They made it to the ECF of course, but that could be due to lack of competition in the regular season which lead to home court adv. etc etc.
Also, Lebron did have Ilguaskas, Boozer, Ben Wallace in the past... Mo Williams has had career years... and this year he had Jamison and Shaq as well as Delonte. I wouldn't call these guys globetrotters.
The two areas in which Kobe has had an advantage is: a) Prime Shaq and b) Phil Jackson.
That's pretty much it.
Also, Lebron did have Ilguaskas, Boozer, Ben Wallace in the past... Mo Williams has had career years... and this year he had Jamison and Shaq as well as Delonte. I wouldn't call these guys globetrotters.
The two areas in which Kobe has had an advantage is: a) Prime Shaq and b) Phil Jackson.
That's pretty much it.
Far be it form me to accidentally defend Kobe, even by proxy, but Gasol was not Top 10 before, nor after arriving in Cleveland. This idea that being able to play in Kobe's shadow somehow makes you some god is ridiculous and I am getting really annoyed at the ridiculous largely media and Laker fan driven overestimation of a 1x All Star who is about a 18 and 8 or 19 and 9 guy by nature. Good player, but people are being ridiculous. He's just another good big man. The player that Kobe needed of course, but strictly a second fiddle. Top 10 guys are guys who should get HOF consideration. With Dirk, Duncan, Bosh, Amare, Boozer, Jefferson etc. all sitting at the position, he might not even be Top 5 at his own position.
If a guy is Top 10 you shoudl be able to take him from hsi current team, trade him to a team without a superstar, and build a contender around him. In no way is Pau in that class. I can name 8 guys ahead of him on that curve without even blinking: LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, CP3, Melo, Durant, and have far too many contenders for the last two spots for a guy who's averaged 20-10 once in his whole career to nab it: Duncan, Yao, Roy, Amare, Bosh, our own Tyreke if he contiues his upward arc, Deron, Rose (with improvement) Joe Johnson, Nash etc.
And the subtext to all of this is of course that somehow there is now a rule that in order to keep a young superstar player you have to win a title with him by the time he's 25. Which just qaulifies as a "are you serious"? The kid isn't even truly in his prime yet, but if you haven't delivered him a title by then its perfectly justified for him to pull up stakes and ditch you no matter how close you are because obviously he's never going to win one with you. Afterall, just look at all those poor ringless one team guys like Jordan (first at 27) Hakeem (first at 31) Isiah (first at 29) Admiral (first at 30) etc. Poor bastards having to wait until they were old enough to drink before their teams finally delivered a title to them.
If a guy is Top 10 you shoudl be able to take him from hsi current team, trade him to a team without a superstar, and build a contender around him. In no way is Pau in that class. I can name 8 guys ahead of him on that curve without even blinking: LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, CP3, Melo, Durant, and have far too many contenders for the last two spots for a guy who's averaged 20-10 once in his whole career to nab it: Duncan, Yao, Roy, Amare, Bosh, our own Tyreke if he contiues his upward arc, Deron, Rose (with improvement) Joe Johnson, Nash etc.
And the subtext to all of this is of course that somehow there is now a rule that in order to keep a young superstar player you have to win a title with him by the time he's 25. Which just qaulifies as a "are you serious"? The kid isn't even truly in his prime yet, but if you haven't delivered him a title by then its perfectly justified for him to pull up stakes and ditch you no matter how close you are because obviously he's never going to win one with you. Afterall, just look at all those poor ringless one team guys like Jordan (first at 27) Hakeem (first at 31) Isiah (first at 29) Admiral (first at 30) etc. Poor bastards having to wait until they were old enough to drink before their teams finally delivered a title to them.
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