yall are crazy if you dont want this guy on your team to complement tyreke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd5Ms89b2bc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd5Ms89b2bc
Al Jefferson relocating to Sacramento??
- Thread starter NBAGURU
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I will not go so far as to say people are crazy, but I would endorse this trade. Heck, I would even be excited about it.
Big Al could give us 20 and 10 as he is entering his physical prime and 12-14 million/year does seem expensive at all to me. How many other bigs in the league will be giving 20-10 at 12-14 mil?
He got 17/9 last year, which is close. However, have you watched Al Jefferson play? He isn't really an impact player. No defense, not much in terms of blocks.
It's not a matter of paying 12-14 for this guy, it's giving up what could be Cousins for this guy. What if Cousins is a 15/10 player? Is it really worth an extra 8-10 million for those 2-3 points a game? At this point, I think Al is what he is; a post threat, not known for making those around him better, suspect defense, not a dangerous shotblocker. Basically he's a second fiddle on a playoff team, and maybe a third fiddle on a championship team. He's Amare without the hops, and he's Boozer without the extra boards. But all of them give you the same stuff on offense, nothing on defense, and just seem to be the tantalizing bigs that get a few all star selections, but end up fading away in the annals of NBA basketball.
It's not a matter of paying 12-14 for this guy, it's giving up what could be Cousins for this guy. What if Cousins is a 15/10 player? Is it really worth an extra 8-10 million for those 2-3 points a game? At this point, I think Al is what he is; a post threat, not known for making those around him better, suspect defense, not a dangerous shotblocker. Basically he's a second fiddle on a playoff team, and maybe a third fiddle on a championship team. He's Amare without the hops, and he's Boozer without the extra boards. But all of them give you the same stuff on offense, nothing on defense, and just seem to be the tantalizing bigs that get a few all star selections, but end up fading away in the annals of NBA basketball.
You covered some points that I was going to address. Franky I think Cousins will be a better player than Jefferson. Pure speculation on my part of course. For starters, I can't see the T Wolves trading Jefferson for just a draft pick. If they really liked Cousins that much why not just draft him a the 4th spot. And if were to believe that Cousins will never be as good as Jefferson, then why would the T Wolves want Cousins over Jefferson?
So none of this makes any sense to me. There's no logic behind it for the T Wolves. Also someone implied that Dalembert and Jefferson together would be beastly or some such thing. I don't see the two of them together on the floor at the same time. Both operate in the post, and it would get very crowded in there. So Jefferson would have to be our starting center in my opinion. I'm not saying you couldn't put them together, I'm just saying it wouldn't be the ideal setup.
In Landry and Thompson you have two PF's that can play at the top of the key or at 15 feet on either elbow. So it wouldn't matter which one you have out there with Dalembert or Jefferson, or Cousins. It free's up the post for the center to work. also remember that if you put two low post players out there together, it now makes it more difficult for Evans to get to the basket.
The reason I think Cousins will be a better player eventually than Jefferson is because I think he'll be a good pick and roll player. Simply because of his ability to hit the open shot from out there. Cousins is already a good post player. I also have no doubts that he'll be a better rebounder than Jefferson. Now add in that Jefferson will make 13 mil next season and Cousins will make somewhere around 3.8 mil, who would you rather have? As was stated, if Cousins is capable of going 15 and 8 or 9 this season, and I think he can do better than that, is it worth paying another 8 mil for the 5 or 6 extra points a game.
Finally, since we wouldn't have the cap space to absorb Jefferson's salary until july 1st, this would have to be a handshake trade. Which means we would have to draft the player the T Wolves wanted and finalize the trade on july 1st. I'm not sure of all the legal ramifications of that. I'm sure the Capt will let me know.
So none of this makes any sense to me. There's no logic behind it for the T Wolves. Also someone implied that Dalembert and Jefferson together would be beastly or some such thing. I don't see the two of them together on the floor at the same time. Both operate in the post, and it would get very crowded in there. So Jefferson would have to be our starting center in my opinion. I'm not saying you couldn't put them together, I'm just saying it wouldn't be the ideal setup.
In Landry and Thompson you have two PF's that can play at the top of the key or at 15 feet on either elbow. So it wouldn't matter which one you have out there with Dalembert or Jefferson, or Cousins. It free's up the post for the center to work. also remember that if you put two low post players out there together, it now makes it more difficult for Evans to get to the basket.
The reason I think Cousins will be a better player eventually than Jefferson is because I think he'll be a good pick and roll player. Simply because of his ability to hit the open shot from out there. Cousins is already a good post player. I also have no doubts that he'll be a better rebounder than Jefferson. Now add in that Jefferson will make 13 mil next season and Cousins will make somewhere around 3.8 mil, who would you rather have? As was stated, if Cousins is capable of going 15 and 8 or 9 this season, and I think he can do better than that, is it worth paying another 8 mil for the 5 or 6 extra points a game.
Finally, since we wouldn't have the cap space to absorb Jefferson's salary until july 1st, this would have to be a handshake trade. Which means we would have to draft the player the T Wolves wanted and finalize the trade on july 1st. I'm not sure of all the legal ramifications of that. I'm sure the Capt will let me know.
It has nothing to do with asking him to lead though.. Yes it has happened to me before too and I kind of resented that person (although he wasn't to blame). I would rather have Cousins though.. Dalembert is not great defensively, but not bad either.. Jefferson is atrocious. I wouldn't want to pair that together.
And for those that would? I am glad you all aren't the GM
Jefferson isn't a guy I would want as a piece to the puzzle. Maybe 3 years ago and a surgery ago.. Even if he's put up similar numbers injuries might cause him to "break down" a bit faster than normal and I wouldn't want that to happen in the middle of a playoff run.
The surgeries scare me but many say he's totally healed. If we were to acquire Jefferson the hope would be that he would keep growing as a player like Gasol did. Not too long ago Gasol was soft defensively and wasn't much of a rebounder, now he's considered to be the best big man in the league by many and he's a ferocious rebounder.
I like whittling it down to Cousins vs Jefferson, but is that the case? Do we really think Petrie will take Cousins over Monroe? If we don't know for certain then it actually comes down Cousins or Monroe vs Jefferson.
I like whittling it down to Cousins vs Jefferson, but is that the case? Do we really think Petrie will take Cousins over Monroe? If we don't know for certain then it actually comes down Cousins or Monroe vs Jefferson.
Here are some questions I want to ask you guys.
1. Jefferson vs Cousins?
2. Jefferson vs Johnson?
3. Jefferson vs Monroe?
for me.
1. Cousins
2. Johnson
3. Jefferson.
it's the third question that I think might be very relevant as it appears Petrie is leaning toward Monroe if Cousins is gone. I'd rather take Jefferson over Monroe.
1. Jefferson vs Cousins?
2. Jefferson vs Johnson?
3. Jefferson vs Monroe?
for me.
1. Cousins
2. Johnson
3. Jefferson.
it's the third question that I think might be very relevant as it appears Petrie is leaning toward Monroe if Cousins is gone. I'd rather take Jefferson over Monroe.
a) peoples' numbers are always down the first year back from knee surgery. That was only compounded with the awkward fit with Love. He also played a few fewer minutes.
b) he only had the one injury, and came back to play 76 of 82 games in his first year back. Its been a long time (80s) since torn ACLs were a kiss of doom on a career.
c) this is really a bird in the bush sort of proposal. Take the sure thing rather than gamble on a draft pick who may or may not work out. The sure thing in this case is a 20-10 guy with probably the best post game in basketball, so that draft pick not only has to work out, he has to work out in a big big way to make this a ridiculous idea.
d) of course much woudl depend on how he would work with Dalembert, and I am not truly buying that he and Dalembert both play in the post. Saying a guy who scorer 8ppg plays inthe post is kind of silly. He (Dalembert) obviously clears out when Jefferson goes to work in that scenario. Should be noted hwoever that Doug Collins (who may or may not be right) listed as one fo the reasons he was behind the Dalembert trade was because he did not think Dalembert and Brand played well together. Jefferson is >>> Brand at this stage, but stylistically there may be some similariities.
e) Dalembert/Jefferson/Thompson/Landry is now taking things too far the other way -- you don't have minutes for all those guys unless Landry slides over and plays some of his bench minutes at SF. That worked for the Rockets BTW, but otherwise at a bare minimum you are talking Jefferson 32, Dalembert 24, leaving 40 total minutes for Landry and Thompson together.
f) I still have concerns over Jefferson's fluidity and ability to fully mesh in a winning team's offense, but so much of that just may be because we've never seen it. And the team's he has been a part of truly have been terrible -- its not as if there were any of them that were dissapointing. Talentwise he's been sitting out there all alone wiht a buunch of complete garbage around him. Arriving in Sacto with all our accumulated young talent might be a heck of a relief for him. (Now how often can you say arriving in Sacto is a big step up in talent?)
g) remember my proposal last month about trading for Jefferson and then going to LeBron and saying how would you like to play alongside Reke and Big Al? Unfortunately that was predicated on us matching salaries so at to preserve Lebron cap room, and unless we somehow pulled that off here even with Noc's salary gone, this deal for Big Baby would essentially eat not only our #5, but out cap room as well. So you are talking two major assets.
b) he only had the one injury, and came back to play 76 of 82 games in his first year back. Its been a long time (80s) since torn ACLs were a kiss of doom on a career.
c) this is really a bird in the bush sort of proposal. Take the sure thing rather than gamble on a draft pick who may or may not work out. The sure thing in this case is a 20-10 guy with probably the best post game in basketball, so that draft pick not only has to work out, he has to work out in a big big way to make this a ridiculous idea.
d) of course much woudl depend on how he would work with Dalembert, and I am not truly buying that he and Dalembert both play in the post. Saying a guy who scorer 8ppg plays inthe post is kind of silly. He (Dalembert) obviously clears out when Jefferson goes to work in that scenario. Should be noted hwoever that Doug Collins (who may or may not be right) listed as one fo the reasons he was behind the Dalembert trade was because he did not think Dalembert and Brand played well together. Jefferson is >>> Brand at this stage, but stylistically there may be some similariities.
e) Dalembert/Jefferson/Thompson/Landry is now taking things too far the other way -- you don't have minutes for all those guys unless Landry slides over and plays some of his bench minutes at SF. That worked for the Rockets BTW, but otherwise at a bare minimum you are talking Jefferson 32, Dalembert 24, leaving 40 total minutes for Landry and Thompson together.
f) I still have concerns over Jefferson's fluidity and ability to fully mesh in a winning team's offense, but so much of that just may be because we've never seen it. And the team's he has been a part of truly have been terrible -- its not as if there were any of them that were dissapointing. Talentwise he's been sitting out there all alone wiht a buunch of complete garbage around him. Arriving in Sacto with all our accumulated young talent might be a heck of a relief for him. (Now how often can you say arriving in Sacto is a big step up in talent?)
g) remember my proposal last month about trading for Jefferson and then going to LeBron and saying how would you like to play alongside Reke and Big Al?
Unfortunately that was predicated on us matching salaries so at to preserve Lebron cap room, and unless we somehow pulled that off here even with Noc's salary gone, this deal for Big Baby would essentially eat not only our #5, but out cap room as well. So you are talking two major assets.
If Cousins is gone, I take a good look at this one.
He's better than Amare, and making a lot less. Both have knee issues. Amare needs someone to create for him, Jefferson has one of the best post games in the league. Not to mention he is a top 5 rebounder ( or has been in the past, when healthy of course ) so while he wont defend anyone, he'll clear up the glass for you. IF he is your Powerforward, and you put a center in there with him, thats a Lakers size front line.
Sure, there are some health risks involved. If there werent he wouldnt be available. Sometimes you gotta gamble, and when the gamble is someone like Monroe then I say do it. If the gamble is Cousins ( who seems to be a young and healthy version of Al) dont do it.
For those saying Dalembert and Jefferson cant play together, I disagree. Jefferson has a little jumper ( a tad closer than Landry ). And Sammy, being one of the more athletic centers in the league, will probly be our primary pick setter. He has the quickness to move around and set good screens, clearing up the paint for Jefferson. Post players can play together. KG and Perkins, Gasol and Bynum, Nene and Kenyon Martin, Duncan and Blair, Randolph and Gasol .. plenty of teams do it. It can work.
He's better than Amare, and making a lot less. Both have knee issues. Amare needs someone to create for him, Jefferson has one of the best post games in the league. Not to mention he is a top 5 rebounder ( or has been in the past, when healthy of course ) so while he wont defend anyone, he'll clear up the glass for you. IF he is your Powerforward, and you put a center in there with him, thats a Lakers size front line.
Sure, there are some health risks involved. If there werent he wouldnt be available. Sometimes you gotta gamble, and when the gamble is someone like Monroe then I say do it. If the gamble is Cousins ( who seems to be a young and healthy version of Al) dont do it.
For those saying Dalembert and Jefferson cant play together, I disagree. Jefferson has a little jumper ( a tad closer than Landry ). And Sammy, being one of the more athletic centers in the league, will probly be our primary pick setter. He has the quickness to move around and set good screens, clearing up the paint for Jefferson. Post players can play together. KG and Perkins, Gasol and Bynum, Nene and Kenyon Martin, Duncan and Blair, Randolph and Gasol .. plenty of teams do it. It can work.
I'm hot and cold on Jefferson. He's a great offensive player, but the lack of D just kills me. We've had one of the weakest defensive front courts for years. Now, you can have your front court defense come from defensive role players, but we don't have any of those, at the moment. Dalembert is shot blocker, but not necessarily a defensive anchor. Even with Dalembert, we still have major issues to address.
On the other hand, we've gotten by with supremely talented offense/little defense guys in the past. At some point, you just need guys who can play, and Jefferson can certainly play. If we can surround him with defense-first guys, then I'm on board with getting him. He's good enough on offense to be a legitimate number one guy on a bad team (Pau Gasol?), and a great number two for Tyreke.
On the other hand, we've gotten by with supremely talented offense/little defense guys in the past. At some point, you just need guys who can play, and Jefferson can certainly play. If we can surround him with defense-first guys, then I'm on board with getting him. He's good enough on offense to be a legitimate number one guy on a bad team (Pau Gasol?), and a great number two for Tyreke.
Here's the general structure of that, compared to the way a recent championship team was built:
Dalembert = Bynum
Jefferson = Gasol
Landry/Thompson/Greene/Casspi/Cisco = Odom/Artest
Reke = Kobe
Beno = Fisher
This is obviously not a claim that we would win a championship next year, just comparing not-dissimilar structures.
Dalembert = Bynum
Jefferson = Gasol
Landry/Thompson/Greene/Casspi/Cisco = Odom/Artest
Reke = Kobe
Beno = Fisher
This is obviously not a claim that we would win a championship next year, just comparing not-dissimilar structures.
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6'10"
He is also, despite reports to the contrary, a PF. In all his years in this league who is the single best true center he has played with? It might be Darko (Perkins was just a kid when he was there). Everybody else has been terrible. Put him next to a true center and let him defend players his own size and see how it goes. Not to mention putting him in an organized defensive system on a team that has a chance to win. I'm not sure Tim Duncan would have looked like much on some of those 15-20 type win messes he has been mired in.
He is also, despite reports to the contrary, a PF. In all his years in this league who is the single best true center he has played with? It might be Darko (Perkins was just a kid when he was there). Everybody else has been terrible. Put him next to a true center and let him defend players his own size and see how it goes. Not to mention putting him in an organized defensive system on a team that has a chance to win. I'm not sure Tim Duncan would have looked like much on some of those 15-20 type win messes he has been mired in.
I didn't say he was TD. Is said TD couldn't do much surrounded by the crap Baby Al has been surrounded with etiher. Duncan has NEVER, in his entire career, had to face that kind of situation, that kind of adversity. He walked into the league on a loaded team, and its never become unloaded. Al is in the opposite position, he walked into the league on a team spiraling downward, and he's never played for any team remotely ready to compete. Doesn't mean Al is as good as Duncan, but it does mean that Al has never been put in a situation remotely as promising as Duncan's and had a chance to shine. And vice versa. Duncan on Al's crap team's wouldn't be nearly as well thought of either. Same player, but losing just takes its toll.
Wow at somebody earlier comparing Al to young Kenny Thomas hahaha just wow.
Im once again going off if this trade rumor was a legit idea( Which I don't think it is). Once again if your GP and Cousins is gone, you gotta do this deal. He's 25 years old and showing no signs of slowing down after that ACL tear. He's more of a rebounder than Amare and to me a better player than the tooth picked sized raptor Chris Bosh.
I just really don't understand why some fans really wouldn't like to see this go down if Cousins gets scooped up, is it more the contract or the knee injuries that would scare some of us away from this deal?
Im once again going off if this trade rumor was a legit idea( Which I don't think it is). Once again if your GP and Cousins is gone, you gotta do this deal. He's 25 years old and showing no signs of slowing down after that ACL tear. He's more of a rebounder than Amare and to me a better player than the tooth picked sized raptor Chris Bosh.
I just really don't understand why some fans really wouldn't like to see this go down if Cousins gets scooped up, is it more the contract or the knee injuries that would scare some of us away from this deal?
In the past I would have loved the Kings to land AJ, but the #5 pick seems pretty steep to me. I know hes young also, but following him a little he seems shaky and inconsistent. I think the Kings will get some good talent at the 5 spot even if Cousins is taken. Some are saying Favors might even drop (I don't see it happening) and I would love to see this team to continue to build through the draft this year, then see if they can add a big piece next summer.
Yeah if the Wolves take Cousins, then watch out for an off the wall pick like Wes Johnson from the Kings. If they do that, then a trade is coming for Jefferson.
And you can thank the ping pong ball system for this as much as anything. The cards are controlled by the teams with the choices. As much fun as is poked at Kahn araound here, this is an easy choice to add Cousins and Johnson to his roster and give up Jefferson (and hopefully #16).
At this point I would rather have Jefferson over Monroe or Johnson. I don't think Monroe's potential will ever touch what Jeffersons is today and in the future. And if the Kings want to win ball games now and get relevant sooner, you have to give this some serious consideration if you are Petrie.
And you can thank the ping pong ball system for this as much as anything. The cards are controlled by the teams with the choices. As much fun as is poked at Kahn araound here, this is an easy choice to add Cousins and Johnson to his roster and give up Jefferson (and hopefully #16).
At this point I would rather have Jefferson over Monroe or Johnson. I don't think Monroe's potential will ever touch what Jeffersons is today and in the future. And if the Kings want to win ball games now and get relevant sooner, you have to give this some serious consideration if you are Petrie.
I still don't see this team being able to land big time free agents, we need to build through the draft and the trade. So with saying that if Cousins or Favors are not there with the 5th pick why add to our logjam at the 3 with Johnson? Why take multiple steps back by drafting a soft skilled big? Why not take a chance on a 25 year old top 4 power forward whos game is not predicated on athleticism whatsoever who could easily be a perfect number 2 for our budding superstar Reke?
The #5 pick is too steep a price to pay for AJ. Yahoo Sports said that Kahn is asking way too much for AJ.
"Kahn has tried to assure agents he’s going to move Jefferson before the season, but it won’t be long until he realizes how little value his power forward has with such an expensive contract and a reconstructed knee. The Wolves have two power forwards, Jefferson and Kevin Love(notes), who don’t complement each other, and no center."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AoUvobLpTSUdNhVAwpqznxE5nYcB?slug=aw-draftbuzz062210
"Kahn has tried to assure agents he’s going to move Jefferson before the season, but it won’t be long until he realizes how little value his power forward has with such an expensive contract and a reconstructed knee. The Wolves have two power forwards, Jefferson and Kevin Love(notes), who don’t complement each other, and no center."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AoUvobLpTSUdNhVAwpqznxE5nYcB?slug=aw-draftbuzz062210