Wesley Johnson
- Thread starter KingNoy
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We were the third worst team in the NBA this year and the worst team last year. Outside of Tyreke, there isn't a player on this roster I wouldn't consider replacing.
Donte is young, I know, but you would have a hard time arguing that he was even an average player last year. I think Casspi can be decent, but he isn't the caliber of player that would make me consider passing up on Johnson or Aminu.
Donte is young, I know, but you would have a hard time arguing that he was even an average player last year. I think Casspi can be decent, but he isn't the caliber of player that would make me consider passing up on Johnson or Aminu.
Nothing we have at SF currently comes close the potential of Wes Johnson. He's not a superstar and does tend to have moments where he's forgotten but he is a great shooter and far more athletic than anything we have at SF. He also does one important thing very well. He's super productive without having to dominate the ball. Exactly the kind of player you want next to Tyreke IMO.
I gotta admit. Wesley "Snipes" Johnson is gaining steam in my eyes. If Cousins doesn't fall to us (which most likely will happen), then Wes Johnson isn't a bad consolation prize.
His game was tailor made to fit next to Tyreke's. Super athletic, great shooter with range, and very good defensive potential. Another thing I think people are underrating is his character. He just seems like the type of player that would fit right in with our young core of Tyreke, Donte, & Thompson.
I know people want a C, but if Cousins is gone then I rather go for BPA. In my eyes BPA is clearly Johnson, there's a reason why he's been in the top 5 in most mocks throughout this whole year. Dude has mad talent!
Yes, we can reach for Aldrich, but IMO we aren't in the postion to start filling out needs. We were dead last a year before, and 3rd from last this year. We need talent more than anything else!
If you disagree with that then I don't know what you were watching last year. Our team is desperate for more talent, and I'm more than willing to take that talent at any position right now.
Of course my opinion may change after team workouts, but as of right now, Johnson is my personal choice. Reke, Johnson, Greene as part of our starting 5 makes for a great perimeter defensive team. Yes, we would still need to address our interior D, but at least we would have our 1,2, & 3 position locked down; and that my friends is a good start.
His game was tailor made to fit next to Tyreke's. Super athletic, great shooter with range, and very good defensive potential. Another thing I think people are underrating is his character. He just seems like the type of player that would fit right in with our young core of Tyreke, Donte, & Thompson.
I know people want a C, but if Cousins is gone then I rather go for BPA. In my eyes BPA is clearly Johnson, there's a reason why he's been in the top 5 in most mocks throughout this whole year. Dude has mad talent!
Yes, we can reach for Aldrich, but IMO we aren't in the postion to start filling out needs. We were dead last a year before, and 3rd from last this year. We need talent more than anything else!
If you disagree with that then I don't know what you were watching last year. Our team is desperate for more talent, and I'm more than willing to take that talent at any position right now.
Of course my opinion may change after team workouts, but as of right now, Johnson is my personal choice. Reke, Johnson, Greene as part of our starting 5 makes for a great perimeter defensive team. Yes, we would still need to address our interior D, but at least we would have our 1,2, & 3 position locked down; and that my friends is a good start.
If we're comparing their lone seasons at Syracuse, then Johnson had signficantly better numbers than Greene (50 FG% vs. 41% and about 2 more rebounds per game).
Of course, those numbers come with the caveat that Johnson was 22 at the time and Donte was 19. But I don't think you can just assume that a player is always going to develop over the course of his college career the way that Johnson has.
Of course, those numbers come with the caveat that Johnson was 22 at the time and Donte was 19. But I don't think you can just assume that a player is always going to develop over the course of his college career the way that Johnson has.
Which is to say he is likely to be a blown up roleplayer. A 23yr old one year college wonder roleplayer.
The ONLY reason to draft a SF in our position is to draft a star. And star at SF involves being able to significantly create your own offense, or have the potential to develop that trait. That's not Johnson's game, and at his age he is less likely than any of the younger guys to develop it. And as a side note, he is another Syracuse product, which means another zone baby, and do we know how he is going to defend at the NBA because of it?
The ONLY reason to draft a SF in our position is to draft a star. And star at SF involves being able to significantly create your own offense, or have the potential to develop that trait. That's not Johnson's game, and at his age he is less likely than any of the younger guys to develop it. And as a side note, he is another Syracuse product, which means another zone baby, and do we know how he is going to defend at the NBA because of it?
I think there are two questions that need to be answered. The first one being, is Johnson just head and shoulders above everyone else not in the top four? If not, then to what degree is he better, and is it enough to totally disregard the others. I don't think that question has been answered yet, but will in the weeks between now ant the draft.
The second question is, will either Greene or Casspi be as good as Johnson in a couple of years. Its a seperate issue, but an important one if we don't believe that Johnson is on a different level than the Aldrich's and Udoh's of the world.
If the Kings do decide that Johnson is their guy, then somebody has to go. We complained last year about the lack of playing time at the SF postion with Greene, Casspi, and Nocioni all sharing the spot. Now you add in another SF in Johnson, and somebodys playing time is going to take a serious hit. Not saying that all this can't be worked out, but team chemistry is a fragile thing at times. We could end up adding talent but creating problems at the same time.
There are several teams trying to move up into the 4th or 5th spots. Something that probably wouldn't happen until draft day when they know the player they want will be there at those spots. Its possible that Kings could trade down for a veteran player and a lower position in the draft. I'm not suggesting who, or which team. But Jerry Reynolds alluded to that possiblity on the Rise Guys show.
By the way, if I had to take a guess as to who the mystery player he was talking about, I'd say it was Paul George. He's a great athlete with an NBA body who can handle the ball better than Johnson. Not as good a shooter as Johnson, but he's a good shooter. His overall shooting percentage dropped off from his freshman year when he shot a blistering 44.7% from 3pt range and 47% overall. This year he only shot 42.4% overall and 35.3% from 3pt range. I think some of the dropoff is due to having the defense focus more on him. Like Johnson he's a good rebounder and avearged almost a blocked shot a game. When George was asked what his goals were in one of the interviews, he said to become a superstar. You gotta love his confidence..
The second question is, will either Greene or Casspi be as good as Johnson in a couple of years. Its a seperate issue, but an important one if we don't believe that Johnson is on a different level than the Aldrich's and Udoh's of the world.
If the Kings do decide that Johnson is their guy, then somebody has to go. We complained last year about the lack of playing time at the SF postion with Greene, Casspi, and Nocioni all sharing the spot. Now you add in another SF in Johnson, and somebodys playing time is going to take a serious hit. Not saying that all this can't be worked out, but team chemistry is a fragile thing at times. We could end up adding talent but creating problems at the same time.
There are several teams trying to move up into the 4th or 5th spots. Something that probably wouldn't happen until draft day when they know the player they want will be there at those spots. Its possible that Kings could trade down for a veteran player and a lower position in the draft. I'm not suggesting who, or which team. But Jerry Reynolds alluded to that possiblity on the Rise Guys show.
By the way, if I had to take a guess as to who the mystery player he was talking about, I'd say it was Paul George. He's a great athlete with an NBA body who can handle the ball better than Johnson. Not as good a shooter as Johnson, but he's a good shooter. His overall shooting percentage dropped off from his freshman year when he shot a blistering 44.7% from 3pt range and 47% overall. This year he only shot 42.4% overall and 35.3% from 3pt range. I think some of the dropoff is due to having the defense focus more on him. Like Johnson he's a good rebounder and avearged almost a blocked shot a game. When George was asked what his goals were in one of the interviews, he said to become a superstar. You gotta love his confidence..
I think he's better than the rest to the point where you have to disregard positional need. He's definitely better than Greene and Casspi. I think they're nice young players, but lets get real here, they're not nearly as athletic or pure of shooters as Johnson is.
I think it's unfair that we say Johnson is only a role player just because he can't currently create off the dribble that well. He can move off the ball well, he can create separation well (with his elevation), and he can get a shot off very quickly. People don't seem to respect off-ball scoring anymore. I think he can improve his off the dribble game, Just like Danny Granger did. He's got a great first step and the ability to pull up off the dribble. He's not going to need super ball handling to become a better one-on-one scorer. If we look at the fact that he's a late bloomer, skipped a year of competitive play because of his transfer, and how much he improved at Syracuse (with a better program). It's reasonable to assume he' still got some room for improvement there.
I do like Paul George quite a bit. I'm expecting him to easily move into the second half of the lottery by the time of the draft.
I think it's unfair that we say Johnson is only a role player just because he can't currently create off the dribble that well. He can move off the ball well, he can create separation well (with his elevation), and he can get a shot off very quickly. People don't seem to respect off-ball scoring anymore. I think he can improve his off the dribble game, Just like Danny Granger did. He's got a great first step and the ability to pull up off the dribble. He's not going to need super ball handling to become a better one-on-one scorer. If we look at the fact that he's a late bloomer, skipped a year of competitive play because of his transfer, and how much he improved at Syracuse (with a better program). It's reasonable to assume he' still got some room for improvement there.
I do like Paul George quite a bit. I'm expecting him to easily move into the second half of the lottery by the time of the draft.
Jus to comment on this last part, I think I'd rather we trade down and draft Paul George than take Wesley Johnson at #5. Every year there's a top guy that is projected ahead of us that I want to get drafted ahead of us because I don't think he'll live up to the hype. Joe Alexander and Yi Jianlian come to mind. I wasn't crazy about Thabeet, Harden, or Griffin last year. This year that guy is Wesley Johnson. I think he'll be a terrific shooter, but you don't draft terrific shooters with the 5th pick of the draft. Paul George is younger, bigger, and similarly multi-talented. And a much better value as a mid-firstround pick.
I don't think there's a need to trade down -- if Minnesota does what everyone is expecting right now and drafts Johnson at 4 we have to take Cousins. If Cousins is gone, I think Aminu brings more size, better rebounding, and better defense. His offense isn't polished yet by any means, but we're talking about a top 5 pick. You want the guy with star potential.
I don't think there's a need to trade down -- if Minnesota does what everyone is expecting right now and drafts Johnson at 4 we have to take Cousins. If Cousins is gone, I think Aminu brings more size, better rebounding, and better defense. His offense isn't polished yet by any means, but we're talking about a top 5 pick. You want the guy with star potential.
I think the one comparison you made that is pretty interesting is Danny Granger. Pretty similar profiles of guys who had really awesome senior (or junior seasons) but were seen as guys more likely to be excellent role players than stars. Granger obviously has struggled to lift Indiana as their best player, but he'd be a heck of a 2nd banana in a different situation.
One thing as well with Johnson is that even though his shooting numbers were very good overall he had a really bad shooting hand injury in Feb that coincided with a 5 or 6 game shooting slump. Than he got healthy again and shot the lights out in March. Everyone has injuries of course, but it adds a little context to his numbers which were already pretty impressive.
The key with him I think is does all that athleticism and wingspan make a lock down man defender. That's not a given as Rudy Gay can attest to. If it does, than a guy who can score 18-20 efficiently and play good defense is pretty close to star level, and definitely a good 2nd or 3rd banana. Like Granger, or Josh Howard with better range.
My thinking is that he's a good safe prospect who I'd be ok with drafting. I'm just hoping that there's an equal or better prospct there that fits a bigger need. Like Greg Monroe (or Cousins of course). I don't know that Greg Monroe is better for sure, but I think he is, and I hope Petrie thinks so too. If we do draft him, it'd sure be nice to trade Casspi to Utah for the 9th pick.
One thing as well with Johnson is that even though his shooting numbers were very good overall he had a really bad shooting hand injury in Feb that coincided with a 5 or 6 game shooting slump. Than he got healthy again and shot the lights out in March. Everyone has injuries of course, but it adds a little context to his numbers which were already pretty impressive.
The key with him I think is does all that athleticism and wingspan make a lock down man defender. That's not a given as Rudy Gay can attest to. If it does, than a guy who can score 18-20 efficiently and play good defense is pretty close to star level, and definitely a good 2nd or 3rd banana. Like Granger, or Josh Howard with better range.
My thinking is that he's a good safe prospect who I'd be ok with drafting. I'm just hoping that there's an equal or better prospct there that fits a bigger need. Like Greg Monroe (or Cousins of course). I don't know that Greg Monroe is better for sure, but I think he is, and I hope Petrie thinks so too. If we do draft him, it'd sure be nice to trade Casspi to Utah for the 9th pick.
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Hmmm, I don't think it was me that suggested that Johnson was a role player. Actually I love Wesley Johnson, and for the better part of the college season I had third on my personal board and I had Favors 5th. His perceived weakness is ballhandling. And perhaps thats being overblown a bit. He's certainly not a bad ballhandler, and at Syracuse didn't get the same chance to handle the ball that Turner did at Ohio St. So perhaps its not being fair to him. As he pointed out in his interview, he started out as a point guard.
As far as Greene and Casspi go. I agree that Johnson is better than both of them right now. The question I was asking, is do you think they'll be as good in a couple of years as Johnson is? My gut tells me, probably not.
But a better question might be, do you think Johnson can bring his ballhandling skills up the level of being able to play the SG position in a way where he would be able to bring up the ball on occasion and initiate the offense. Because thats the only question mark I have about him. If he can play the 2, and Cousins is gone, then I would lean very hard toward drafting Johnson. I feel that he would have no problem defending the 2. He's a terrific athlete and would bring matchup problems for teams at the 2. He doesn't have the penetrating skills that Tyreke or Turner has, but he's good enough everywhere else that I don't think it matters. I know one thing. You better not leave alone on the perimeter or he'll kill you from out there.
As far as Greene and Casspi go. I agree that Johnson is better than both of them right now. The question I was asking, is do you think they'll be as good in a couple of years as Johnson is? My gut tells me, probably not.
But a better question might be, do you think Johnson can bring his ballhandling skills up the level of being able to play the SG position in a way where he would be able to bring up the ball on occasion and initiate the offense. Because thats the only question mark I have about him. If he can play the 2, and Cousins is gone, then I would lean very hard toward drafting Johnson. I feel that he would have no problem defending the 2. He's a terrific athlete and would bring matchup problems for teams at the 2. He doesn't have the penetrating skills that Tyreke or Turner has, but he's good enough everywhere else that I don't think it matters. I know one thing. You better not leave alone on the perimeter or he'll kill you from out there.
If only this was true... then it would mean that we already have a superstar. Unfortunately, that ain't the case. I like Donte Greene, but let's get real. The guy is a good player with some upside, especially with his one on one defense, but Donte ain't going to any all-star games anytime soon. Johnson has the talent where he could be a guy that goes to all-star games regularly. I will admit though, that of all the SF on our roster, Dante's game is the most similar, and it would make the most sense to trade Dante if we draft Johnson.
I can't give you a great answer on Aminu, but my gut tells me no. I mean aside from the obvious weaknesses that he has. There's just something about him and the way he plays that hits me wrong. And I do think that Johnson has star potential. He does bring more to the table than just shooting the ball. If thats all I wanted I'd move down and draft James Anderson.
As for last year, I certainly agree with you on Thabeet, but not on Griffin or Harden. Harden had a nice year and seemed to fit in nicely. I suspose that we could still argue about Griffin since he didn't get to play. But don't be surprised if he wins rookie of the year. I guess we could be kind and say the jury is still out on Jianlian and Alexander, but there's no doubt that they were taken too high.
As for last year, I certainly agree with you on Thabeet, but not on Griffin or Harden. Harden had a nice year and seemed to fit in nicely. I suspose that we could still argue about Griffin since he didn't get to play. But don't be surprised if he wins rookie of the year. I guess we could be kind and say the jury is still out on Jianlian and Alexander, but there's no doubt that they were taken too high.
I watched a Wes play quite a bit this last year, and feel that he'd make a very good SF. As mentioned, he indicated in the interviews, that he felt the 'bad ball-handling' label was a bit unfair since that isn't what was asked from him in Syracuse.
If in fact, he does have better handles than most people think, it's possible he could play at the SG spot, as he won't have problems defending that position.
And I actually hope that he does display good ball handling in the work-outs for one particular reason. If he shows he has better than advertised handles, it greatly increases the chances that Minnesota will select him rather than Cousins.
Let's face it. Johnson is a fantastic fit for the Wolves. So if he can show up at their work-out and demonstrate any sort of possibility of being a star, then they'll take him over Cousins.
And that would allow us the opportunity to draft probably the best fit for what we need in the draft in Cousins.
I felt right after the Lottery results that there was a 5-10% chance that Cousins might fall. After what's gone on so far at the combine, I'm moving that up to around 40% or so. I know I shouldn't raise my expectations, because disappointment is sure to follow, but I can't help but think the odds are getting better that we still might secure Cousins who would be a tremendous addition for our team.
If in fact, he does have better handles than most people think, it's possible he could play at the SG spot, as he won't have problems defending that position.
And I actually hope that he does display good ball handling in the work-outs for one particular reason. If he shows he has better than advertised handles, it greatly increases the chances that Minnesota will select him rather than Cousins.
Let's face it. Johnson is a fantastic fit for the Wolves. So if he can show up at their work-out and demonstrate any sort of possibility of being a star, then they'll take him over Cousins.
And that would allow us the opportunity to draft probably the best fit for what we need in the draft in Cousins.
I felt right after the Lottery results that there was a 5-10% chance that Cousins might fall. After what's gone on so far at the combine, I'm moving that up to around 40% or so. I know I shouldn't raise my expectations, because disappointment is sure to follow, but I can't help but think the odds are getting better that we still might secure Cousins who would be a tremendous addition for our team.
Johnson's a definite complementary player in this league--he's not a prolific slasher or passer nor does he have great scoring instincts, but he's a decent contributor in everything else and is a good athlete, so he'll fill a middle-to-upper end niche role somewhere. Ideally he could develop as a very good defensive player who can fill in transition and hit spot-up threes.
If you're going to trade Casspi for the 9th overall pick, then I would take Johnson at 5, and hope that Monroe slips to 9. There is always Aminu, Aldrich and Edoh. Worst case scenario, we get Aldrich, lol
But seriously, if we had a trade setup with Casspi for the 9th pick, then we would be able to go Johnson at 5, and still easily get a big at 9 that compares to any that would be selected at 5 or 6 or 7. All of this is either assuming Cousins is off the board, or Geoff has decided that Cousins isn't worth the risk.
But seriously, if we had a trade setup with Casspi for the 9th pick, then we would be able to go Johnson at 5, and still easily get a big at 9 that compares to any that would be selected at 5 or 6 or 7. All of this is either assuming Cousins is off the board, or Geoff has decided that Cousins isn't worth the risk.
Yeah I know, I was addressing bricky with the role player comment.
I don't think they have Johnson's upside. We get excited by what they've shown so far at a young age, but as far as talent goes, I don't think they're on his level. You can never know for sure though.
I don't know if he can ever be an ideal two guard, but I think he can improve his ball handling to the point where he can become a better scorer in 1-on-1 situations. I think he's got solid vision and passing skills, but it's hard to comment on how creative he can be when he hasn't been put into that situation yet.
I don't think they have Johnson's upside. We get excited by what they've shown so far at a young age, but as far as talent goes, I don't think they're on his level. You can never know for sure though.
I don't know if he can ever be an ideal two guard, but I think he can improve his ball handling to the point where he can become a better scorer in 1-on-1 situations. I think he's got solid vision and passing skills, but it's hard to comment on how creative he can be when he hasn't been put into that situation yet.
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Let me start by saying that if you watched Greene play at Syracuse and then watched Johnson play at Syracuse, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Sorry, but you just can't look at the stats you like. You have to look at the whole picture.
Although they both averaged 35 minutes a game. Greene took 521 shots his freshman year as oppossed to Johnsons 412. Out of the 521 shots Greene took, 261 of them were 3pt shots. So half of the shots he took, were 3 pointers. Thats a ridiculous amount of 3 pointers to take. Especially when your shooting only 34.5% from there. It also explains why his overall shooting percentage was only 41.8%, which is pittiful.
Of the 412 FGA's by Johnson, only 123 were 3 pointers. Easily less than one third of his shots were 3 pointers. And Johnson did it while shooting 41.5% from 3 point range and 50.2% overall.
So there's no question as to who the most effective scorer was. Greene scored a lot of points by standing at the 3pt line and pumping up one 3 pointer after another. And even if your shooting percentage stinks, if you take enough shots your going to put points on the board. But that doesn't make you a good shooter or player. Greene's basketball IQ was in the toilet when he came to the Kings, which is why he couldn't find his way onto the floor. Simply put, he was a project coming out of college. Johnson isn't!
Although they both averaged 35 minutes a game. Greene took 521 shots his freshman year as oppossed to Johnsons 412. Out of the 521 shots Greene took, 261 of them were 3pt shots. So half of the shots he took, were 3 pointers. Thats a ridiculous amount of 3 pointers to take. Especially when your shooting only 34.5% from there. It also explains why his overall shooting percentage was only 41.8%, which is pittiful.
Of the 412 FGA's by Johnson, only 123 were 3 pointers. Easily less than one third of his shots were 3 pointers. And Johnson did it while shooting 41.5% from 3 point range and 50.2% overall.
So there's no question as to who the most effective scorer was. Greene scored a lot of points by standing at the 3pt line and pumping up one 3 pointer after another. And even if your shooting percentage stinks, if you take enough shots your going to put points on the board. But that doesn't make you a good shooter or player. Greene's basketball IQ was in the toilet when he came to the Kings, which is why he couldn't find his way onto the floor. Simply put, he was a project coming out of college. Johnson isn't!
Agreed. I mean in a sense everyone is a role-player, but Johnson does way too much to be called a role player but the traditional definition of the term. A multiple-role player I'll agree with, but doesn't that just make him a good basketball player? IMO a role player is someone who is just good at one thing- that's not Wesley. Someone who doesn't need the ball in their hands to be effective is NOT necessarily a role player- that is not what defines the term.
A complementary player though he is, and a damn good one. I think I see most here warming up to him and I am also. If we can't fit him in with our current roster make the changes necessary ( providing Cousins is not available at 5).
Whatever happens, if we draft Cousins and he turns out greater than we expected, I'm going to miss not having Johnson on the team. I just want him as a King now.
A complementary player though he is, and a damn good one. I think I see most here warming up to him and I am also. If we can't fit him in with our current roster make the changes necessary ( providing Cousins is not available at 5).
Whatever happens, if we draft Cousins and he turns out greater than we expected, I'm going to miss not having Johnson on the team. I just want him as a King now.
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I agree with this, but it's a silly debate to be having. If you're comparing Greene vs Johnson then you shouldn't be thinking about drafting Johnson IMO. Even if Johnson is better than Greene and Casspi right now, I think when you combine the unbeleivable upside of Greene (and Casspi to a lesser extent) with the relatively small ability gap at the moment, that it would be enough to preclude drafting Johnson as a 3.
I have to go back to Bajadens last post and say that the question truly remains can Johnson play the 2. If so I think he's a great pick at #5. Like Baja said, if you leave him alone he's going to punish you, and last year our wings got an unbeleivable amount of open shots as teams collapsed on Tyreke.
all I can say is that there is nothing physical or mental about him that suggests he can't be more in time.
His defense will be fine, there were actually more than a few times this year where he played terrific one on one defense and the zone at the very least did show his weak side and team defensive capabilities.
His defense will be fine, there were actually more than a few times this year where he played terrific one on one defense and the zone at the very least did show his weak side and team defensive capabilities.
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