Over-reacting much???
- Thread starter J-WILL55
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K
Dude, I know you mean well, but I take EVERYTHING you post with a humongous grain of salt. You were riding the anti-Tyreke bandwagon REALLY hard for a long time this past season, and you were SO wrong about everything. So please, stop before you make yourself look as stupid as last season made you look. K?
While it's probably much more mature to be like most of you who are trying to see the silver lining in all of this I, for one, prefer to vent on a unique system to sports that rewards better teams over lesser teams simply by the owners wanting to create more excitement and anticipation for their teams by creating this unfair lottery system. To my way of thinking draft choice positions should automatically go to teams in inverse order in which they finished. As far as I know that's the way it's done in all other sports with reasonable tie breaker rules included. To me last night was like watching Dick Bavetta calling another dubious foul against us with .5 seconds left in the game and us up by one, only to see the opposition jump ahead of us again. Dang it we deserved that #3...we suffered and agonized over each loss only to see teams with fewer losses jump ahead of us. This process is wrong.
If the draft wasn't the way it is, every time a Shaq comes along teams will be clamoring to get the worst record, making the game uncompetitive and lackluster. I like the way the draft is set up, I just think it's rigged 
If the draft wasn't the way it is, every time a Shaq comes along teams will be clamoring to get the worst record, making the game uncompetitive and lackluster. I like the way the draft is set up, I just think it's rigged
When people say it's a four player draft, or two player draft, they don't mean that it will only yield that many good players. It means that that's how many obvious good prospects there are, guys who people feel much more confident about their future success in the NBA than the rest, that's all. Sure there'll more than likely be really good players outside the top 4, but we'll have to be lucky enough to draft them without having the benefit of hindsight.
If anything 5th is a blessing in disguise for us, it takes the pressure off Petrie to choose between Wall or Turner had we gotten #1. I for one don't see Wall as the slam dunk other people do and I also have a hard time seeing a Reke/Wall backcourt. I however LOVE Evan Turner even with his lack of outside shooting touch right now. Now GP can pretty much fix our hole up front with one pick whether it be Aldrich, Udoh, or whoever might be left between Cousins or Favors. Then after we don't have to hear of him passing over one of those guards, to draft somebody will need to further our development.
Theres alot of time before the draft and I can pretty much gurantee there will be a player that rises up through the ranks whether it is a big guy or a small guy. We are gonna be fine Kings Fans
Theres alot of time before the draft and I can pretty much gurantee there will be a player that rises up through the ranks whether it is a big guy or a small guy. We are gonna be fine Kings Fans
It does feel a bit like a stomach punch. But maybe it's a bit of a blessing in disguise. Cousins does seem like a one of those high risk high reward type players (though he at his best seems exactly what the Kings need).
Anyway now it's time for Petrie to go to work -- either by finding that gem at five, moving up or moving down (which he often does not want to do) or trading away the pick for immediate help.
Anyway now it's time for Petrie to go to work -- either by finding that gem at five, moving up or moving down (which he often does not want to do) or trading away the pick for immediate help.
Wow, a lot of panic out there. Let me start by saying that I watch a lot of college basketball. As do some others on this fourm. And anyone that thinks this isn't a deep draft just doesn't know what the hell the're talking about. And like last year, where the draft was deep in point guards, this draft is deep in Big men.
Personally I've always believed that you don't go into a gold mine looking for the best silver you can find. So lets apply some logic here. The Kings need a big man. The draft is deep in big men. Duh!! I think Wesley Johnson is a very good basketball player. But he's a SF. Last time I checked we still had Casspi, Greene, and Nocioni at that position. And just in case all three were suddenly stricken by some unknown illness, Wa La, there's Cisco, who can also play the position.
Sorry, you can only carry this best player available so far. If its Wall, hell yes. But Johnson is not John Wall or Evan Turner.
I think the Wizz will probably take Wall. They're not going to say so. They'll intertain offers etc. But in the end I think thats who they'll take. They need to mend their public image and Wall would bring the most bang for the buck. However, its been said that they really like Turner, and he would be a good fit next to Arenas. So its not out of the question..
With the 76'ers it gets a little dicey. They'll take Wall in a heartbeat if he's still there. But if he isn't, then I think they go for a big man. Their only true center is Damembert, and he only has one more year left on his contract. So they could go for either Cousins or Favors here. Or, they could trade down for more picks and nab Aldrich. A team that might be willing to do that if Turner is still there, which is likely, is the Timberwolves. From everything I've read in their newspapers they just love Turner. And the 76'es could move down two spots and still get their big man. The T Wolves have three picks in the first round. They have the 16th and the 23rd, and have two more picks in the second round.
The Nets who are in the third spot would love to have Favors to put next to Lopez. So if the 76'ers don't trade down and take Cousins, then the Nets are happy campers. They take Favors and leave Turner for the T Wolves. But if for some strange reason they take either Turner or Favors, then I think there's a better than even chance that Cousins drops to us. So to my mind, the 76'ers are the wild card in this. I think the Nets will take whomever remains of the two of Turner or Favors, and I think the T Wolves will pass on Cousins.
Why you ask. Well for starters, his game is almost identical to Jeffersons. Plus, the T Wolves liked what the saw from Millicic. And lest we forget, the T Wolves drafted a player named Nikola Pedovic two years ago and he's now ready to play in the NBA. They're currently negotiating his buyout. And yes, he's a 6'11" center. And he happens to be from the same country as Millicic. Hmmmm! Strange coincidence huh? Their FO has stated and recently restated just after the lottery that the T Wolves need perimeter help and they don't care how they get it. they're willing to trade all three of their picks if they can aquire what they want. So I doubt they select Cousins, unless they want to play lets make a deal.
But in the event Cousins doesn't drop to us, all is not lost. There are some very good big men. They all bring something a little different to the table, but any one of them would help the Kings. Aldrich would bring a presence in the middle we don't have now. He's a very good defender, shotblocker and rebounder. He also has a very good basketball IQ, and one of the most intertaining freethrow strokes ever seen. The fact that he even makes them proves that nothing is impossible.
There's Ed Davis who might be considered Derrick Favors Light. I really like Epke Udoh who brings a little bit of everything. Good defender and shotblocker surpreme. Good offensive rebounder, and I think in a normal system other than a zone, he'll be a good rebounder period. He's also a good passer with a decent offense. Still needs work in that area but he's just a good all around player. And of course there's the ever present Greg Monroe. Who I think will be a better player than projected. He's also big enough to play PF and Center. You might call him Chris Webber Light. Very light!
And lest we forget, there's Daniel Orton. A player that had to play in Cousins shadow all year. He could end up being the sleeper in the draft.
By the way. For those that might think that Johnson might be able to do what Turner can do, just not as well. No! He can't. Turner is a ballhandler surpreme. One of the best I've ever seen. Johnson's biggest weakness is his ballhandling. And unlike shooting, which can be improved dramaticly with work, ballhandling is a lot harder to become good at. Most great ballhandlers have been bouncing the ball since they were 5 or 6 years old. The ball is just an extension of their hands. Don't get me wrong. You can certainly improve your ballhandling. But you'll probably never become as good as the Turners and the Evans of the world.
Personally I've always believed that you don't go into a gold mine looking for the best silver you can find. So lets apply some logic here. The Kings need a big man. The draft is deep in big men. Duh!! I think Wesley Johnson is a very good basketball player. But he's a SF. Last time I checked we still had Casspi, Greene, and Nocioni at that position. And just in case all three were suddenly stricken by some unknown illness, Wa La, there's Cisco, who can also play the position.
Sorry, you can only carry this best player available so far. If its Wall, hell yes. But Johnson is not John Wall or Evan Turner.
I think the Wizz will probably take Wall. They're not going to say so. They'll intertain offers etc. But in the end I think thats who they'll take. They need to mend their public image and Wall would bring the most bang for the buck. However, its been said that they really like Turner, and he would be a good fit next to Arenas. So its not out of the question..
With the 76'ers it gets a little dicey. They'll take Wall in a heartbeat if he's still there. But if he isn't, then I think they go for a big man. Their only true center is Damembert, and he only has one more year left on his contract. So they could go for either Cousins or Favors here. Or, they could trade down for more picks and nab Aldrich. A team that might be willing to do that if Turner is still there, which is likely, is the Timberwolves. From everything I've read in their newspapers they just love Turner. And the 76'es could move down two spots and still get their big man. The T Wolves have three picks in the first round. They have the 16th and the 23rd, and have two more picks in the second round.
The Nets who are in the third spot would love to have Favors to put next to Lopez. So if the 76'ers don't trade down and take Cousins, then the Nets are happy campers. They take Favors and leave Turner for the T Wolves. But if for some strange reason they take either Turner or Favors, then I think there's a better than even chance that Cousins drops to us. So to my mind, the 76'ers are the wild card in this. I think the Nets will take whomever remains of the two of Turner or Favors, and I think the T Wolves will pass on Cousins.
Why you ask. Well for starters, his game is almost identical to Jeffersons. Plus, the T Wolves liked what the saw from Millicic. And lest we forget, the T Wolves drafted a player named Nikola Pedovic two years ago and he's now ready to play in the NBA. They're currently negotiating his buyout. And yes, he's a 6'11" center. And he happens to be from the same country as Millicic. Hmmmm! Strange coincidence huh? Their FO has stated and recently restated just after the lottery that the T Wolves need perimeter help and they don't care how they get it. they're willing to trade all three of their picks if they can aquire what they want. So I doubt they select Cousins, unless they want to play lets make a deal.
But in the event Cousins doesn't drop to us, all is not lost. There are some very good big men. They all bring something a little different to the table, but any one of them would help the Kings. Aldrich would bring a presence in the middle we don't have now. He's a very good defender, shotblocker and rebounder. He also has a very good basketball IQ, and one of the most intertaining freethrow strokes ever seen. The fact that he even makes them proves that nothing is impossible.
There's Ed Davis who might be considered Derrick Favors Light. I really like Epke Udoh who brings a little bit of everything. Good defender and shotblocker surpreme. Good offensive rebounder, and I think in a normal system other than a zone, he'll be a good rebounder period. He's also a good passer with a decent offense. Still needs work in that area but he's just a good all around player. And of course there's the ever present Greg Monroe. Who I think will be a better player than projected. He's also big enough to play PF and Center. You might call him Chris Webber Light. Very light!
And lest we forget, there's Daniel Orton. A player that had to play in Cousins shadow all year. He could end up being the sleeper in the draft.
By the way. For those that might think that Johnson might be able to do what Turner can do, just not as well. No! He can't. Turner is a ballhandler surpreme. One of the best I've ever seen. Johnson's biggest weakness is his ballhandling. And unlike shooting, which can be improved dramaticly with work, ballhandling is a lot harder to become good at. Most great ballhandlers have been bouncing the ball since they were 5 or 6 years old. The ball is just an extension of their hands. Don't get me wrong. You can certainly improve your ballhandling. But you'll probably never become as good as the Turners and the Evans of the world.
While I tend to agree that there are 4 players significantly better than the rest, I also think this is a deep draft for talent. And remember that not everyone else views these players the same way we do. I have been surprised how many "experts" don't have the same top 4 that most of us do. I was listening to Chris Monter a couple days ago refer to Wall and Turner as the top 2 with Favors a step down. He then listed 3 or 4 players ahead of Cousins (I disagree, but hope GMs are thinking the same way).
I would also point out that last year was consided to be a weak draft talent-wise. And yet, the top 3 rookies were picked 4th, 7th, and 10th. It just shows that you can never be sure how things will turn out.
I would also point out that last year was consided to be a weak draft talent-wise. And yet, the top 3 rookies were picked 4th, 7th, and 10th. It just shows that you can never be sure how things will turn out.
Thanks for the voice of sanity bajaden. All season long we had heard about how this was going to be an excellent big man draft and now that our hopes for the obvious top 2 appear to be dashed people are jumping from the rooftops.
The fact is we are #5 and if any of the top 4 slide we are first in line to nab them. And you bring up points that few are even considering - like that a team with a later pick might pass on a great talent with a few red flags to take a no-risk pick and still grab one of the consolation guys in the middle.
I believe that unless Petrie makes the biggest blunder he has since Douby whoever we get at 5 will be a significant upgrade over Hawes and Thompson allowing us to move 1 of those guys by mid-season.
The fact is we are #5 and if any of the top 4 slide we are first in line to nab them. And you bring up points that few are even considering - like that a team with a later pick might pass on a great talent with a few red flags to take a no-risk pick and still grab one of the consolation guys in the middle.
I believe that unless Petrie makes the biggest blunder he has since Douby whoever we get at 5 will be a significant upgrade over Hawes and Thompson allowing us to move 1 of those guys by mid-season.
I can't speak for Baja, but we do seem to agree on our evaluations of most players. Personally, I'm not sold on Aminu. He has talent and athleticism, sure, but he's not a freak either. He doesn't really have a position and he's not very skilled. He could turn out good, but he'd be one of the few that I would put down as having bust-potential. That might be negated by the fact that he is supposedly a good kid and a hard-worker, though.
Still, not my cup of tea and would be far from my personal first choice. I would suspect Bajaden feels similarly, although I'll let him speak for himself on that one.
I have, Have you?
Cousins has incredible ball handling for big man. I saw him cross over behind his back in traffic and between his legs with ease.
Johnson handles in traffic just fine. If you read scouts report they also said that Wall's handling needs work.
I suggest that you actually watch them rather than read scouts reports.
Another myth by scouts is Turner can't shoot. I watched him play and he is a phenomenal shooter. In fact, he has better shooting percentage than Hayward and the Duke shooters. He actually has same shooting % as Larry Bird and Jordan.
Cousins has incredible ball handling for big man. I saw him cross over behind his back in traffic and between his legs with ease.
Johnson handles in traffic just fine. If you read scouts report they also said that Wall's handling needs work.
I suggest that you actually watch them rather than read scouts reports.
Another myth by scouts is Turner can't shoot. I watched him play and he is a phenomenal shooter. In fact, he has better shooting percentage than Hayward and the Duke shooters. He actually has same shooting % as Larry Bird and Jordan.
Baja, I think you're underestimating the sixers' very possible desire to just get the best prospect on the board, and that is clearly Evan Turner. Turner may not be the PG that they need, but he does give them the playmaker, shot creator, and leader that they need. Iggy really doesn't do that. While they could use a long term solution at C (and I don't discount the possibility of the scenario you describe) they need a perimeter leader more than anything, and Turner can fill that role. I see them trading Iggy or Young to accommodate for Turner before I see them either taking Cousins outright or trading down for him. I hope you're right though.
As far as Minny goes. I don't disagree that people are making good arguments for why Minny might not want to keep Cousins, but they're not making good arguments for why they wouldn't just take him and trade for that wing player that they need plus some extra goodies.
About your point on Pekovic and Milicic. While I think Minny is high on both these players (I remember liking Pekovic a lot when he was drafted), I don't think they let players that are likely rotational players at best dissuade them from taking Cousins, unless they thought the difference in trade value between him and Johnson (assuming the decision is between those two) was insignificant.
One reason they may want Cousins over Jefferson is that Cousins has better potential defensively at center. Size wise he matches up much better with the centers in the NBA, specifically Andrew Bynum. They had Kahn on NBA TV today and he was talking about how there isn't a problem between having Love and Jefferson on the floor at the same time, offensively, but there is a problem with them on the floor at the same time defensively, because of (namely) the Lakers and Gasol/Bynum. I think they eventually move Jefferson as opposed to Love, in the long run.
While I agree with you that there are still good big men prospects left, the big disappointment is that we were in a pretty good position to be guaranteed to get a prospect that had a very good chance at being a difference maker, but instead are left with good prospects that have decent shots at being solid players. So while I agree that there are good prospects left, better than maybe some other drafts, the disparity of apparent talent between Wall/Turner/Favors/Cousins and the rest is pretty big. If there is that difference maker available in the next tier of prospects, it will be much harder to predict.
Udoh? I like, but I'm not convinced of his upside as a go-to scorer, and I'm very concerned about his lack of defensive rebounding. That may be because of his system, but we don't know for sure.
Monroe? More of a Gasol light than Webber light IMO. IMO, he has the best chance at being a go-to post scorer than the others within this tier, but he gives us yet another post player that severely lacks defensively.
Orton? I like, but we may have to trade down to justify taking that kind of risk at the 5th pick.
Aldrich? A solid addition that would provide a big need, but he's not that 2-way difference maker that we were hoping for. Hence, the disappointment that you see.
Davis? Really hard to tell. My mid-level projection with him would be a Haslem type player, but who knows when it comes to him.
Johnson? I agree that his ball handling is probably going to limit him from being a high level shot creator, but people seem to forget the primary reason that made Danny Granger so undervalued in the 05 draft; it was his ball handling/shot creating ability. Not saying they'll necessarily end up being the same type of player, but even if they can't improve their ball handling to elite levels, if you have the shooting, length and athleticism, that margin of improvement they can make with their ball handling can end up making a pretty big difference. Besides, he's not that bad of a ball handler, he's certainly better than Aminu.
A big thing people keep missing about Johnson is that he's very active off the ball and has all the ability to be a very good off-ball scorer, which is so undervalued in the NBA, by the league, the media, and the fans. We can't capitalize on this ability as much as teams with true pass-first PG's, but I beg the people here to not just discount it. I'm not saying I'm a Johnson advocate per se, but lets not tear down his upside just because he plays a position that we're loaded at.
And finally, we need the best player possible, we need a core piece with this pick. It's hard to rely on the FA or trade market to nab those pieces, the draft is the best bet for a market like us IMO. If that best player is a big, great, that's awesome, but if it isn't then we're just going to have to take him and figure out the mess later. We can't risk losing out on overall talent because we're currently desperate for a big. We're (outside lottery luck) likely to keep falling lower in the draft over the next few years and our chances at difference makers are going to keep falling. So we have to approach this pick like we may not be in this area in the draft again, although it's still very possible we will. Whether we fill in our immediate holes now or not, we're never going to be a championship contender unless we have the star core players to build around first, and Evans alone isn't enough.
As far as Minny goes. I don't disagree that people are making good arguments for why Minny might not want to keep Cousins, but they're not making good arguments for why they wouldn't just take him and trade for that wing player that they need plus some extra goodies.
About your point on Pekovic and Milicic. While I think Minny is high on both these players (I remember liking Pekovic a lot when he was drafted), I don't think they let players that are likely rotational players at best dissuade them from taking Cousins, unless they thought the difference in trade value between him and Johnson (assuming the decision is between those two) was insignificant.
One reason they may want Cousins over Jefferson is that Cousins has better potential defensively at center. Size wise he matches up much better with the centers in the NBA, specifically Andrew Bynum. They had Kahn on NBA TV today and he was talking about how there isn't a problem between having Love and Jefferson on the floor at the same time, offensively, but there is a problem with them on the floor at the same time defensively, because of (namely) the Lakers and Gasol/Bynum. I think they eventually move Jefferson as opposed to Love, in the long run.
While I agree with you that there are still good big men prospects left, the big disappointment is that we were in a pretty good position to be guaranteed to get a prospect that had a very good chance at being a difference maker, but instead are left with good prospects that have decent shots at being solid players. So while I agree that there are good prospects left, better than maybe some other drafts, the disparity of apparent talent between Wall/Turner/Favors/Cousins and the rest is pretty big. If there is that difference maker available in the next tier of prospects, it will be much harder to predict.
Udoh? I like, but I'm not convinced of his upside as a go-to scorer, and I'm very concerned about his lack of defensive rebounding. That may be because of his system, but we don't know for sure.
Monroe? More of a Gasol light than Webber light IMO. IMO, he has the best chance at being a go-to post scorer than the others within this tier, but he gives us yet another post player that severely lacks defensively.
Orton? I like, but we may have to trade down to justify taking that kind of risk at the 5th pick.
Aldrich? A solid addition that would provide a big need, but he's not that 2-way difference maker that we were hoping for. Hence, the disappointment that you see.
Davis? Really hard to tell. My mid-level projection with him would be a Haslem type player, but who knows when it comes to him.
Johnson? I agree that his ball handling is probably going to limit him from being a high level shot creator, but people seem to forget the primary reason that made Danny Granger so undervalued in the 05 draft; it was his ball handling/shot creating ability. Not saying they'll necessarily end up being the same type of player, but even if they can't improve their ball handling to elite levels, if you have the shooting, length and athleticism, that margin of improvement they can make with their ball handling can end up making a pretty big difference. Besides, he's not that bad of a ball handler, he's certainly better than Aminu.
A big thing people keep missing about Johnson is that he's very active off the ball and has all the ability to be a very good off-ball scorer, which is so undervalued in the NBA, by the league, the media, and the fans. We can't capitalize on this ability as much as teams with true pass-first PG's, but I beg the people here to not just discount it. I'm not saying I'm a Johnson advocate per se, but lets not tear down his upside just because he plays a position that we're loaded at.
And finally, we need the best player possible, we need a core piece with this pick. It's hard to rely on the FA or trade market to nab those pieces, the draft is the best bet for a market like us IMO. If that best player is a big, great, that's awesome, but if it isn't then we're just going to have to take him and figure out the mess later. We can't risk losing out on overall talent because we're currently desperate for a big. We're (outside lottery luck) likely to keep falling lower in the draft over the next few years and our chances at difference makers are going to keep falling. So we have to approach this pick like we may not be in this area in the draft again, although it's still very possible we will. Whether we fill in our immediate holes now or not, we're never going to be a championship contender unless we have the star core players to build around first, and Evans alone isn't enough.
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