Do Kevin and Reke have problems??

[Bricklayer]

so most of you want to trade kevin? what happens when tyreke leaves and goes to a big market...what makes you all think he is going to resign with sac? i just kinda want to know, because there is a realistic chance of that.

uh yeah chicken little. Get back to me in 5 years (which is the first time Reke could leave even if he wanted to) and by which time Kevin will be going on 32.

Other than having a very unrealistic/small town view of how things work in the NBA -- stars rarely leave their teams in the NBA. The system is weighted against it. If Sacramento still has a team in 5 years, it will mean there is anew arena. If there is a new arena, Reke with years of expereince, its going to be a fun winning environment. Barring a complete failure to csurround him with a winning team. the chips will be in Sacto;s favor.

 

[Kingsguy881]

i dont even dislike evans... i just wanted a pg that can run the team to its max... rubio was the type of pg that would be exciting to watch and would help set up martin, thompson and hawes... the threat of him passing to an open player that the defender cant see is just as deadly as a jumpshot. defending the pass opens up shots for other players. there is a reason why jason kidd and andre miller have been successful without a reliable jumpshot, their passes resulted in 2 or 3 points for a player that would struggle to average 10 points on their own.

we needed an identity, his style of play alone would give us that. just like any team lead by a pg of that mold, nash, paul, kidd... we know whats going to happen the minute that they step on the court... everyone will score more with them than they did without... kidd made kenyon martin an all-star. paul made west an all-star. nash made marion an all-star... who will rubio make into an all-star? i dont know, the twolves suck.... but on this team you cant tell me that you wouldnt be drooling over the idea of a 2-man game like that.

we dont have that with tyreke, he is just a force of nature all by himself... honestly, i would love for evans and martin to work out like that but i just dont see it happening. ive watched martin his entire career here and i watched some of evans in college and most of his games with the kings... they dont have the style of play that meshes well together...

if we trade for a player that can play with tyreke you wont ever hear me talking negatively about him. but we dont have that player and the teams front office is trying to run this gimmicky offense to sell the idea that it will work. it wont. they play the same position. since evans will more than likely be a much better player than martin, he needs to be moved. garcia isnt that player either. he's a energy/hustle player, he should be coming off of the bench playing defense and occasionally hitting an open three.

we need a pg that can play off the ball... bibby wouldve been awesome back in his prime, though his defense is horrible. ramon sessions would be a nice player to put next to tyreke, he can play off the ball and is a big pg who can run an offense. a young derek fisher would be perfect. we need a player that can feed off of tyrekes doubles and make the extra pass to dish to other players. man i watch way to many laker games.... i know that damn offense to a science. we should run the triangle, too bad rambis isnt the coach. granted he is sucking in minny, mainly because kahn is an idiot.

we have the personnel that could run the triangle to perfection and we wouldnt have the evans/martin problem. i officially blame westphal... my bad tyreke... its not your fault, you are what you are... its the coaches fault for not being good enough to coach you.

Your argument is bunk. You don't like Evans. You won't admit it, you dance around it by stating that you don't DISLIKE him, but you don't like him and you are not man enough to admit it. You wanted Rubio because he would bring flash and glitz and glamour, and he'd set up JT and Hawes and Martin with easy looks (which BTW Evans does and they haven't been making the easy looks he gives them so your argument is broke right there). Whatever, that is not what this team or this franchise needs. They need a superstar, someone to build a team around.

So you mention a whole slew of ring-less, championship-less players to support your argument. I don't know what you think, but for most, playing NBA basketball is about one thing: the RING. So if you want to try to convince us that Evans is not the right person to be the rock of our foundation you would be better advised to use examples of players with RINGS (Derek Fisher does not count, he is a victim of circumstance and once he left LA he wasn't jack).

We know you watch a bunch of Laker games, you are probably the first person in history that has tried to root for both the Kings AND the Lakers. Who do you root for when they play each other?

So Evans doesn't give us an identity? Ok . The future 2010 ROY does not give us an identity, put us on the map, have players such as LBJ giving up mad respect for him, frustrating Jennings into almost giving up on being ROY? What is your stuff laced with?

So defending passing lanes opens up shooters now, does it? Umm, nope, that is a basic zone defense concept and it doesn't do a good job of opening up shooters. Driving into the lane and getting the defense to collapse is what opens up shooters and (GASP!) thats what Tyreke is best at!

Your argument, while long and confusing in it's randomness, does not measure up. Sorry. F- for that last post.

 

[Kingsguy881]

One last thing: I noticed how you brought it back around to offense, saying that once 'they step on the court, everyone around them scores more points...' You just don't get it. I almost think if you were the GM you would sabotage the franchise to have them be exciting and lose rather than go for a ring. You stated that you knew defense wins championships but would rather have a team that wins games in the regular season. Thats the hallmark of a loser.

 

[AriesMar27]

Your argument is bunk. You don't like Evans. You won't admit it, you dance around it by stating that you don't DISLIKE him, but you don't like him and you are not man enough to admit it. You wanted Rubio because he would bring flash and glitz and glamour, and he'd set up JT and Hawes and Martin with easy looks (which BTW Evans does and they haven't been making the easy looks he gives them so your argument is broke right there). Whatever, that is not what this team or this franchise needs. They need a superstar, someone to build a team around.

So you mention a whole slew of ring-less, championship-less players to support your argument. I don't know what you think, but for most, playing NBA basketball is about one thing: the RING. So if you want to try to convince us that Evans is not the right person to be the rock of our foundation you would be better advised to use examples of players with RINGS (Derek Fisher does not count, he is a victim of circumstance and once he left LA he wasn't jack).

We know you watch a bunch of Laker games, you are probably the first person in history that has tried to root for both the Kings AND the Lakers. Who do you root for when they play each other?

So Evans doesn't give us an identity? Ok . The future 2010 ROY does not give us an identity, put us on the map, have players such as LBJ giving up mad respect for him, frustrating Jennings into almost giving up on being ROY? What is your stuff laced with?

So defending passing lanes opens up shooters now, does it? Umm, nope, that is a basic zone defense concept and it doesn't do a good job of opening up shooters. Driving into the lane and getting the defense to collapse is what opens up shooters and (GASP!) thats what Tyreke is best at!

Your argument, while long and confusing in it's randomness, does not measure up. Sorry. F- for that last post.

you are the definition of blind homerism, just like a clingy girlfriend.... i never said that you cant build around tyreke, hell me saying that martin should be traded in every damn thread is proof of that. this team doesnt have an identity, unless losing to losing teams is their identity.

how dare you talk about ringless players... all of them are better than tyreke, 2 of them are former rookie of year winners and the other is a 2-time mvp. lebron doesnt have a ring, should the cavs build around someone else? hell, we're talking about the kings. they havent won a ring in over 60 years and when they did they werent even the kings.... if the clippers had come to sacramento instead of the kings you would be a clipper fan, id still be a kings fan. id be a happier kings fan if they were in los angeles instead of the clippers... i wouldnt need league pass.

tyreke doesnt set up anyone, thompson and hawes move out of the way so he can charge into the lane and try to score.

 

[AriesMar27]

One last thing: I noticed how you brought it back around to offense, saying that once 'they step on the court, everyone around them scores more points...' You just don't get it. I almost think if you were the GM you would sabotage the franchise to have them be exciting and lose rather than go for a ring. You stated that you knew defense wins championships but would rather have a team that wins games in the regular season. Thats the hallmark of a loser.

coming from a guy who is okay with just losing every game instead...

 

[Kingsguy881]

you are the definition of blind homerism, just like a clingy girlfriend.... i never said that you cant build around tyreke, hell me saying that martin should be traded in every damn thread is proof of that. this team doesnt have an identity, unless losing to losing teams is their identity.

how dare you talk about ringless players... all of them are better than tyreke, 2 of them are former rookie of year winners and the other is a 2-time mvp. lebron doesnt have a ring, should the cavs build around someone else? hell, we're talking about the kings. they havent won a ring in over 60 years and when they did they werent even the kings.... if the clippers had come to sacramento instead of the kings you would be a clipper fan, id still be a kings fan. id be a happier kings fan if they were in los angeles instead of the clippers... i wouldnt need league pass.

tyreke doesnt set up anyone, thompson and hawes move out of the way so he can charge into the lane and try to score.

You talked about ringless players first, oh, how dare me! Did you just go off the deepend with your little rant LMAO!!!!!!!

And I guarantee you when all is said and done Tyreke will have a better career than every single one of them, save for LBJ. Hater.

 

[BMiller52]

you are the definition of blind homerism, just like a clingy girlfriend.... i never said that you cant build around tyreke, hell me saying that martin should be traded in every damn thread is proof of that. this team doesnt have an identity, unless losing to losing teams is their identity.

how dare you talk about ringless players... all of them are better than tyreke, 2 of them are former rookie of year winners and the other is a 2-time mvp. lebron doesnt have a ring, should the cavs build around someone else? hell, we're talking about the kings. they havent won a ring in over 60 years and when they did they werent even the kings.... if the clippers had come to sacramento instead of the kings you would be a clipper fan, id still be a kings fan. id be a happier kings fan if they were in los angeles instead of the clippers... i wouldnt need league pass.

tyreke doesnt set up anyone, thompson and hawes move out of the way so he can charge into the lane and try to score.

I would nearly kill myself if the Kings were in LA. That's BLASPHEMY. Take it back.

 

[VF21]

Note: In case anybody not named AriesMar27 cares, the portion of the thread that had dissolved into an "I love LA" monologue has been moved to the Lounge.

 

[Kingster]

I'll add my opinion on this whole Martin/Evans situation.


Martin doesn't fit in with this whole TEAM, period. Regardless of who the pg is. He doesn't fit in with the youthful intensity, enthusiasm, toughness and competitiveness of the team in general. He is too reserved and lacks that competitive spirit that a young teams needs in a leader. He is not a leader and I'm afraid to say not much of a competitor. He's an excellent scorer, but not a winner. He can score but doesn't seem to do what it takes to win. In order to fit in with the team, he needs to just hit his open shots, play defense, and more importantly play with intensity. Martin is very similar to Peja, the quiet 2nd or 3rd star on a team that just needs him to score, but not lead.

I tend to think you're right. I could care less about Martin's shooting or lack thereof right now. But there's nothing that should stop him from the first game from playing tough. And so far he's not doing it. Not say he can't. But he's not doing it so far, and he's going to have start bringing it or he just won't belong.

 

[mac]

Reading some insult on Aries in every single thread (I exaggerate) is getting very annoying. To be fair to him he hasn't even brought up Rubio for a long time and has shown consistent although slighty less support for Tyreke than most.

Can we keep the threads about the original topics and stop trolling about Rubio...

I just want us to be really good in a few years. Whatever that takes, I'm supporting it

 

[Kingsguy881]

Reading some insult on Aries in every single thread (I exaggerate) is getting very annoying. To be fair to him he hasn't even brought up Rubio for a long time and has shown consistent although slighty less support for Tyreke than most.

Can we keep the threads about the original topics and stop trolling about Rubio...

I just want us to be really good in a few years. Whatever that takes, I'm supporting it

Dude whatever. If you are tired of hearing about Rubio then the rest of us are tired of hearing about how the guy we have as our pg is not a pg and how Sergio is a better pg than Tyreke and how Beno is playing better than Tyreke. If you are tired of reading insults about am, I suggest you pm him and tell him to give it a rest because every single time he comes out and says it someone is going to jump down his throat.

 

[AriesMar27]

Dude whatever. If you are tired of hearing about Rubio then the rest of us are tired of hearing about how the guy we have as our pg is not a pg and how Sergio is a better pg than Tyreke and how Beno is playing better than Tyreke. If you are tired of reading insults about am, I suggest you pm him and tell him to give it a rest because every single time he comes out and says it someone is going to jump down his throat.

no its just you... re-read some of these threads, you are the only one. yet when i say that thompson is a scrub or hawes a wuss, you are no where to be seen. but evans.... now that i think about it you only pop up when tyreke has a good game.... we didnt have any arguments after the philly game.

 

[Kingsguy881]

no its just you... re-read some of these threads, you are the only one. yet when i say that thompson is a scrub or hawes a wuss, you are no where to be seen. but evans.... now that i think about it you only pop up when tyreke has a good game.... we didnt have any arguments after the philly game.

I've gotten on you about Hawes before, thats nothing new. And you get it with your Evans hate from a few people, not just me. Whatever dude, I'm over you as a poster and a Kings fan. Have a nice life in the smog/crime/fake capital of the world.

 

[pshn80]

Do Martin and Evans have problems? With each other? Probably nothing that effects their play. Meanwhile we haven't won a game lately. I bet our two biggee guards get along a whole lot better than some posters I've read above.

 

[kingzfan]

I bet our two biggee guards get along a whole lot better than some posters I've read above.

hahaha thats funny

 

[AriesMar27]

I've gotten on you about Hawes before, thats nothing new. And you get it with your Evans hate from a few people, not just me. Whatever dude, I'm over you as a poster and a Kings fan. Have a nice life in the smog/crime/fake capital of the world.

no its really just you... look at some of the threads... its you, a few newbies will chime in but that usually doesnt go anywhere. even in an unrelated thread about living in los angeles you tried to start an argument and brought up rubio in a non basketball related thread. are you serious? luckily i wasnt online, missed it and now the thread is closed. because you are, without a shadow of a doubt; a grade A ***er.

why should i talk crap about the lakers? they are a good team, they win... just because i dont like the team doesnt mean that i have to say bad things about them. only a hater would do that... what they eat wont make me ****. you dont see me bad mouthing the spurs or the celtics... why would i? im not a fan but they are good teams. they are doing what is necessary to do in order to win games and compete for a championship.

how dare i criticize a bad team for making bad decisions? even if it is my favorite team, they are not above criticism. thats probably why they arent very good, the fans are okay with losing every year or they are convinced that it will take 2-3 more years every year. no one here says maybe next year, they are waiting for 2-3 years in the future.

how many fans here were talking about summer 2010? tons... if not most at the time. now how many of them actually think that we will end up with a worthwhile player this summer? none... we all know that it wont be happening.

you are a ***er... period. if you are done with me as a poster and a kings fan then ignore my post. it wont change anything for me except i wont have to deal with your hating all of the time. maybe you should be a laker fan, that way you would have a legitimate reason to hate on every single post that i make.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Taking the high road.

 

[Warhawk]

no its really just you... look at some of the threads... its you, a few newbies will chime in but that usually doesnt go anywhere. even in an unrelated thread about living in los angeles you tried to start an argument and brought up rubio in a non basketball related thread. are you serious? luckily i wasnt online, missed it and now the thread is closed. because you are, without a shadow of a doubt; a grade A ***er.

why should i talk crap about the lakers? they are a good team, they win... just because i dont like the team doesnt mean that i have to say bad things about them. only a hater would do that... what they eat wont make me ****. you dont see me bad mouthing the spurs or the celtics... why would i? im not a fan but they are good teams. they are doing what is necessary to do in order to win games and compete for a championship.

how dare i criticize a bad team for making bad decisions? even if it is my favorite team, they are not above criticism. thats probably why they arent very good, the fans are okay with losing every year or they are convinced that it will take 2-3 more years every year. no one here says maybe next year, they are waiting for 2-3 years in the future.

how many fans here were talking about summer 2010? tons... if not most at the time. now how many of them actually think that we will end up with a worthwhile player this summer? none... we all know that it wont be happening.

you are a ***er... period. if you are done with me as a poster and a kings fan then ignore my post. it wont change anything for me except i wont have to deal with your hating all of the time. maybe you should be a laker fan, that way you would have a legitimate reason to hate on every single post that i make.

Both of you knock this crap off or you guys are taking an "involuntary vacation" from this board. A warning to everyone - the personal attacks stop. Now.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Both of you knock this crap off or you guys are taking an "involuntary vacation" from this board. A warning to everyone - the personal attacks stop. Now.

hey come on man these arguements are more entertaining then kings games. Let them go at it till 2011 atleast.

 

[AriesMar27]

hey come on man these arguements are more entertaining then kings games. Let them go at it till 2011 atleast.

or at least for the rest of the season... no blood, no foul.

 

[Warhawk]

We have rules to follow - you don't like them, post elsewhere.

 

[DesertFox]

I see nothing wring with the situation(I mean the team, not this thread). Nobody likes losing, but this team wasn't supposed to be doing anything this year anyway.
Just being patient and seeing how it unfolds is a win win. Either the Kings have an elite backcourt for the next 5+ years, or they get another top pick and a nice trade chip in the offseason.

 

[Jechtsphere]

John Holinger on the Tyreke/Martin pairing:

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-100120/daily-dime

 

[ZZ-TOP]

John Holinger on the Tyreke/Martin pairing:

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-100120/daily-dime

I like this part of the article:



Both players recognize that they're going to have to make changes in their game to make the partnership flourish.
"I don't have a mind frame to go out there and score 30 anymore," said Martin, who seemed notably more active defensively after basically being a one-man offense a year ago. "[I'm] just trying to do other things, have more assists and get other teammates involved. While I was out guys developed, and they're good players. I show my respect by getting them involved, and [I'll] attack when it's there."



Now, if everybody is sincere in their approach, good things can happen.
But, I still don't buy it. Somebody will snap. And another question has been raised. Evans game have to change. How? Is this partnership worth changing his game, or should his game just mature?

 

[swisshh]

They can be sincere and it still doesn't work. I don't doubt the two want to excel, but certain player types don't mesh well with other player types. The article praised the backcourt for managing 10 assists. That's really not much for a starting backcourt.

 

[Gary]

This pairing won't work because both have the same game inside. Both of their games revolve around getting to the basket. To expect Martin to play mainly outside is asking him to get out of his comfort zone, and the style that he has played for a long time..

To ask Evans is asking the same thing.. Plus Evans can't shoot consistently from outside. It's hard for me to say this but Martin is the one that probably has to go. The team plays better around Evans than around Martin.

EDIT: sigh- sound my post in the trade forum.. I wasn't wanting it to be just another trade idea... Would rather you have asked me to remove the "players I want" part and then I could have kept the meat of the post here.

 

[DesertFox]

They can be sincere and it still doesn't work. I don't doubt the two want to excel, but certain player types don't mesh well with other player types. The article praised the backcourt for managing 10 assists. That's really not much for a starting backcourt.

The Kings have never had a backcourt average more than 10 assists.
Martin and Evans games can mesh just fine.Martin has spent time (and had his most efficient seasons) both as much less than a first option and with guys who dominate the ball.

 

[nickmcclure]

Breaking News: Martin not 100%, sky not falling

I've read alot of the "Do Kevin and Reke have problems?" thread and feel this is more about Martin, apologies to the mods if they wanna merge this...

Why I feel people need to relax the whole trade Martin scenario:

Kevin has only played 8 games this season and was out with a broken wrist requiring surgery for 33 games. He's not 100% yet. He missed a ton of wide-open looks in an 8/18 shooting night recently. But if history tells you anything (see THIS SEASON'S 48-point performance) he's rusty and generally a very efficient player. For the people wondering if there is an inherent problem with him and Tyreke I think the simple answer is no. Don't forget people, Martin and Evans play different positions. Martin has never been the ball handler, he's at his best cutting and slashing which is where Tyreke's at his best passing. Martin's best skill set is really attacking the baseline and drawing fouls (something that's rubbed off onto Tyreke) This puts the other team in foul trouble, scores with the clock stopped and he's a very very good free throw shooter. Are we ready to give up on our best player from the past few seasons? We know what he's capable of and seems to adhere to Westphal's coaching style. I've also noticed improvement this season is his admittedly weak defensive game. Actually forced a near 24 second shot clock violation on a one-on-one defensive possession against Atlanta (forgot who he was guarding.) Finally, with all the trade hype I think we should be focusing on positions that we have log-jams at. I'm much more concerned that we are starting lame-duck Nocioni over the youngin's Donte and Omri. Also where does Ime and Garcia play into this? What about a legit center? (I see Hawes as a back up) I think the 2 guard is not a position we have to worry about too much...
/rant

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Whether Martin was the best player on the team last year or last week really is irrelevant to where we are now and moving forward. Greene and Casspi already are commanding major minutes despite a short time in the league and the more Martin plays the less time for them. It is not unreasonable for them to eclipse Martin in the near future making him the 4th best player on a team with no true starting quality PF or C. Somehow we need to address those needs and unfortunately for Kevin he may be the odd man out.

 

[nickmcclure]

Whether Martin was the best player on the team last year or last week really is irrelevant to where we are now and moving forward. Greene and Casspi already are commanding major minutes despite a short time in the league and the more Martin plays the less time for them. It is not unreasonable for them to eclipse Martin in the near future making him the 4th best player on a team with no true starting quality PF or C. Somehow we need to address those needs and unfortunately for Kevin he may be the odd man out.

I disagree with you but you bring up some good points. I guess how he played last year is somewhat irrelevant but I think it's an indicator of how well he can play this year. He has a knack for making his numbers jump every year