Kings @ Lakers Game Thread 1/1, 7:30 p.m. PST

[vikinginferno]

Make free throws. Dont try to flop on the last play of a game while youre guarding #24 = Win

Haha, flop??? Look at the picture in the post above and tell me how that is not a blatant elbow. Even the Big Aristotle would have been pushed aback by that elbow.

 

[Tetsujin]

The coverage of this game in the SacBee is atrocious. Sam Amck's man crush on Kobe is so blatantly obvious it makes me want to upchuck

 

[swisshh]

Just remind yourself that, three years from now, Evans will be getting the benefit of that kind of "officiating."

Not sure about that.

1. Sacramento may not be viable enough a market to get the NBA's approval.
2. Evans lack of quick speed and quick vertical means less highlight dunks, and that is part of getting the NBA's seal of approval, which leads to the endorsements and bailout calls.

 

[jpsls]

I thought the refs were pretty fair throughout the game. The controversial calls for me really came in the 4th quarter when Bryant was supposedly fouled by Udoka and Greene on jumpshots. The Thompson foul on Brown that resulted in Thompson fouling out was completely BS. However, I do notice that 99% of the time that if a player drives to the rim and trips, whether it be his fault or the defender, they usually get the call...kind of like when a shooter moves under a defender who leaves his feet.

My real quesiton is why was Sergio Rodriguez put in for defense? His defense is worse than Martin's.

 

[cstorm]

I don't want the Tyrek to get special treatment any more than I want Kobe to.

I just want to watch two teams play their hearts out and let the players performance decide the game. Not David Stern.

I know that some like to feel they are more wizened in the ways of the NBA and won't stoop to homerism like beefin' about the refs, but if that is the prevailing attitude, there is nothing stopping the NBA from continuing to screw with the integrity of the game to fine tune the profit margin. If no one speaks out, things will just get worse.

 

[jpsls]

I don't want the Tyrek to get special treatment any more than I want Kobe to.

I just want to watch two teams play their hearts out and let the players performance decide the game. Not David Stern.

I know that some like to feel they are more wizened in the ways of the NBA and won't stoop to homerism like beefin' about the refs, but if that is the prevailing attitude, there is nothing stopping the NBA from continuing to screw with the integrity of the game to fine tune the profit margin. If no one speaks out, things will just get worse.

I completely agree with you. I'm sick of watching games these days where defender get calls for being "too" close to an offensive player. During the 90's, the NBA let the players actually play and display their talents. Games would be more physical, and the players could determine the outcome more than they could today. I don't believe in giving superstars the benefit of the doubt, but any sane person has to agree that they unfortunately do.

 

[drboiffard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Z7umFXThk

One of the thinks why NBA sucks more than FIBA basketball. When the show is above the game. I don't care at all that this always has happened there; it's a sport, not the circus. If rules are not the same for all don't call it a sport.

 

[mac]

In my opinion it wasn't a foul on Kobe. He didn't extend his elbow. If there was an offensive foul it looks more to me like a moving screen. My beef was his foot. It really looked like it was on the line when he took the shot, as in out of bounds.

 

[Bricklayer]

The game should be called the same in the beginning of the game until the end of the game, no questions. Nowhere in the rule book does it say that in the final seconds of a game to not call any kind of foul/penalty unless it is a completely blatant foul. Just because last second shots look good doesn't mean it is good for the game to turn a blind eye to the usual fouls/penalties.

No actually that is wrong -- the screeching around here would be absolutely earth shattering if the refs were consistently involved in blowing whistles on last second plays. All the conspiracy theories, every time they missed the call...it would literally decide games left and right and people would absolutley HATE it. Its all that would be discussed game after game. "Let them play"/"don't decide it with a whistle" has always been good policy for refs in every sport in the final seconds of a game. Its sometimes easy to forget in the face of the constant parade of whistles in the NBA, but the sport can actually be played without any refs at all, and everyone knows it more or less is on final plays. Its not primarily a special treatment issue (I say primarily because I probably would not want to test Sergio chucking Kobe for the final shot). Refs don't want to be involved on that final play, and I don't want them invovled either.

 

[Ed2009]

He had only 3 TO's. What I want is YOU to blame Udoka. He could have made those free throws. So why not blame him.

I blame Udoke for not even making one free throw-but this game could have been earlier overrr..layup!

 

[Gargamel]

Oh please....the refs were fair throughout. The team played a great game on the road but lost to a vastly superior and more experienced team. The game was lost because of inexperience, missed free-throws, and....the fact that they were playing the defending champs with the greatest clutch player in the game (as much as it pains me to say that).

I missed the game. Sonuva.

 

[juicij36]

Growing up watching/playing b.ball with my father as a young boy, teenager, young man, etc. he would always say:

"Son, the game is won and lost from the free throw line."

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Just remind yourself that, three years from now, Evans will be getting the benefit of that kind of "officiating."

You ain't kidding! I've seen both him and Donte get away with 3 steps a few times this season.

 

[Bricklayer]

Growing up watching/playing b.ball with my father as a young boy, teenager, young man, etc. he would always say:

"Son, the game is won and lost from the free throw line."

Um...no offense to your dad...but...um...would you be mad if I insulted your dad?

Shaq laughs at him from behind his pile of rings.

 

[juicij36]

^^^
Cute.

A few examples right off the top of my head:
entire game 7 WCF (SAC FT%)
end of game 4 WCF (Divac)
last night (Ime)

 

[Capt. Factorial]

^^^
Cute.

A few examples right off the top of my head:
entire game 7 WCF (SAC FT%)
end of game 4 WCF (Divac)
last night (Ime)

Yet in the end, it turns out there is only a very weak correlation between winning percentage and team free throw percentage over the past 10 years - the correlation coefficient is 0.125, which suggests that the variation in free throw percentage explains the game outcome only about 1.6% of the time. Compare this to much larger correlation coefficients (in the 0.6 range) for points scored per possession or points allowed per possession and it would appear that accuracy in free throw shooting really is a small factor, however obvious it is in some cases.

 

[cstorm]

I completely agree with you. I'm sick of watching games these days where defender get calls for being "too" close to an offensive player. During the 90's, the NBA let the players actually play and display their talents. Games would be more physical, and the players could determine the outcome more than they could today. I don't believe in giving superstars the benefit of the doubt, but any sane person has to agree that they unfortunately do.

Unfortunately, it is considered "homerism" by many here to complain about refs, so they get very condescending whenever you mention it.
I'm just a homer, so I have no problem pointing out that the emperor has no clothes.

 

[Gargamel]

I completely agree with you. I'm sick of watching games these days where defender get calls for being "too" close to an offensive player. During the 90's, the NBA let the players actually play and display their talents. Games would be more physical, and the players could determine the outcome more than they could today. I don't believe in giving superstars the benefit of the doubt, but any sane person has to agree that they unfortunately do.

To be honest, I think fans' heads would explode Scanners style if we went back to old rules overnight. You only think you're not used to the current style until you're once again witnessing D-Harp straight arming and "no layups" fouls on every trip up court. The 30 team NBA fanbase, even the old schoolers, have softened in their interpretations of fouls and the younger fans who grew up w/ this shh are accustomed to things like flagrants depending on how a guy falls. EG Kobe pounding into the defender or Jordan on Russell wouldn't even have been a point of contention in 1992, I GAR-RON-TEE it. Yes, I was a fan back then.

Stern over time got the rules relaxed to increase OFFENSE. What happened back when "players determined the outcome" were BRAWLS, the Bad Boy Pistons, the 90s Knicks, the 90s Heat, the late 90s Cavs that bled the shotclock down on every trip and averaged 90 pts a game for 5 years. We're not going back.

 

[Trueblood]

No actually that is wrong -- the screeching around here would be absolutely earth shattering if the refs were consistently involved in blowing whistles on last second plays. All the conspiracy theories, every time they missed the call...it would literally decide games left and right and people would absolutley HATE it. Its all that would be discussed game after game. "Let them play"/"don't decide it with a whistle" has always been good policy for refs in every sport in the final seconds of a game. Its sometimes easy to forget in the face of the constant parade of whistles in the NBA, but the sport can actually be played without any refs at all, and everyone knows it more or less is on final plays. Its not primarily a special treatment issue (I say primarily because I probably would not want to test Sergio chucking Kobe for the final shot). Refs don't want to be involved on that final play, and I don't want them invovled either.

Excellent take. It's good to see someone on this thread give some objective analysis. As much as I hate the Lakers, I hate blowing 20 pt. leads and missing free throws even more.

 

[Trueblood]

To be honest, I think fans' heads would explode Scanners style if we went back to old rules overnight. You only think you're not used to the current style until you're once again witnessing D-Harp straight arming and "no layups" fouls on every trip up court. The 30 team NBA fanbase, even the old schoolers, have softened in their interpretations of fouls and the younger fans who grew up w/ this shh are accustomed to things like flagrants depending on how a guy falls. EG Kobe pounding into the defender or Jordan on Russell wouldn't even have been a point of contention in 1992, I GAR-RON-TEE it. Yes, I was a fan back then.

Stern over time got the rules relaxed to increase OFFENSE. What happened back when "players determined the outcome" were BRAWLS, the Bad Boy Pistons, the 90s Knicks, the 90s Heat, the late 90s Cavs that bled the shotclock down on every trip and averaged 90 pts a game for 5 years. We're not going back.

Another great take. What people forget is that over half the league is averaging over 100 ppg now. For comparison sake, the Kings were the only team to average 100 ppg in the lockout year and they were right at 100. But you'll never hear the media mention this. But they sure had a pile on party when scoring was in the toilet in the 90's.

It's a catch 22. Have entertaining and high scoring games and you wind up with ref bashing. Go back to the 90's and the media piles on and you're left with the rules committee trying to figure out how to get back to where we are now.

 

[cstorm]

Excellent take. It's good to see someone on this thread give some objective analysis. As much as I hate the Lakers, I hate blowing 20 pt. leads and missing free throws even more.

How very superior of you. I guess we can all go back to playing with our Legos and leave the real discussions to you big boys, eh?

 

[JeffZX]

See winning shot and closimg comments from both the Kings and Lakers perspective, plus Kobe Brant post-game interview at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owaPtP4WzpU

See the controverial foul in the last minute from the Lakers perspective at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz0zAgI8VFs

 

[JeffZX]

I thought the refs were pretty fair throughout the game. The controversial calls for me really came in the 4th quarter when Bryant was supposedly fouled by Udoka and Greene on jumpshots. The Thompson foul on Brown that resulted in Thompson fouling out was completely BS. However, I do notice that 99% of the time that if a player drives to the rim and trips, whether it be his fault or the defender, they usually get the call...kind of like when a shooter moves under a defender who leaves his feet.

My real quesiton is why was Sergio Rodriguez put in for defense? His defense is worse than Martin's.

My question is who was guarding Kobe? Thomas started guarding him but kept in the paint, and Rodriguez slammed into Kobe while attempting to trail Vujacic. Nobody had Kobe.

 

[Gargamel]

Another great take. What people forget is that over half the league is averaging over 100 ppg now. For comparison sake, the Kings were the only team to average 100 ppg in the lockout year and they were right at 100. But you'll never hear the media mention this. But they sure had a pile on party when scoring was in the toilet in the 90's.

It's a catch 22. Have entertaining and high scoring games and you wind up with ref bashing. Go back to the 90's and the media piles on and you're left with the rules committee trying to figure out how to get back to where we are now.

Exactly re: your 2nd para. You got it more succinctly than I did.

The problem I see is that they swung the pendulum between defense and offense way too far in the opposite direction. Also, it's easier to make rules that gear toward offense than rules that go back to what we had. Going back to what we had is admission of a mistake, not one of Stern's strongsuits. Also fair to mention that the rules changes toward offense coincided with the beginning of Stern's massive push to advertise to casual fans, female demos, foreign demos, etc. Thug ball was a black eye that wasn't going to draw caz fans in.

I do remember articles about how boring the league was becoming back in the 90s. Here's what a game could look like between two defensive teams in 92 (beginning of clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZpcQBrRG7M

 

[Sac.Kings]

After having the night to speculate about the outcome of last nights game and how different it could have turned out to be, I realized how well we actually played. We had 20 assists, in the first half, and even though we somewhat fell apart, we made the plays we needed to win (except for those two free throws and questionable officiating). We WILL start winning these types of games, but a team has to learn what works and what doesn't, especially a team as young as this. Some have proclaimed that they are already tired of losing these type of games. How can you be? How many times last year could you have said "we were supposed to win this game." Two times we have faced the lakers, and both times we were supposed to win. This will only fuel the young guns on the team, and we aren't even at full strength (missing 2 of our best players). Give it time, Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Trueblood]

How very superior of you. I guess we can all go back to playing with our Legos and leave the real discussions to you big boys, eh?

Not trying to sound superior, just noting that it's nice to have a change of pace from the veiled cursing and complaining.

 

[Trueblood]

After having the night to speculate about the outcome of last nights game and how different it could have turned out to be, I realized how well we actually played. We had 20 assists, in the first half, and even though we somewhat fell apart, we made the plays we needed to win (except for those two free throws and questionable officiating). We WILL start winning these types of games, but a team has to learn what works and what doesn't, especially a team as young as this. Some have proclaimed that they are already tired of losing these type of games. How can you be? How many times last year could you have said "we were supposed to win this game." Two times we have faced the lakers, and both times we were supposed to win. This will only fuel the young guns on the team, and we aren't even at full strength (missing 2 of our best players). Give it time, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Yep. It should also be noted that those chumps the Lakers aren't exactly lighting the world on fire. Not taking anything away from the Kings and their effort but close calls like this seem to be the norm for this supposedly invicible Laker squad.

2 King games, 2 back to back OT wins over Houston and OKC, last second buzzer beaters vs. Milwaukee and Miami and those are just games off the top of my head.

The Lakers barely win the majority of their games while their losses have been somewhat lopsided. I believe Denver beat them by 30, Dallas by double digits in Staples, Phoenix did them by 20 and of course you had the Cleveland rout on Christmas day. The Laker media needs to get a dose of reality and quit annointing these guys as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[JB_kings]

After having the night to speculate about the outcome of last nights game and how different it could have turned out to be, I realized how well we actually played. We had 20 assists, in the first half, and even though we somewhat fell apart, we made the plays we needed to win (except for those two free throws and questionable officiating). We WILL start winning these types of games, but a team has to learn what works and what doesn't, especially a team as young as this. Some have proclaimed that they are already tired of losing these type of games. How can you be? How many times last year could you have said "we were supposed to win this game." Two times we have faced the lakers, and both times we were supposed to win. This will only fuel the young guns on the team, and we aren't even at full strength (missing 2 of our best players). Give it time, Rome wasn't built in a day.

I think most realize that the Kings have made some huge strides to be able to put themselves in position to win games like this. Just oh so frustrating when you have the Lakers down and can't finish it. It's ok to feel all that and still be smiling inside that we have some special players.

 

[cstorm]

Not trying to sound superior, just noting that it's nice to have a change of pace from the veiled cursing and complaining.

So you felt veiled putdowns were more appropriate?

 

[Gargamel]

Yep. It should also be noted that those chumps the Lakers aren't exactly lighting the world on fire. Not taking anything away from the Kings and their effort but close calls like this seem to be the norm for this supposedly invicible Laker squad.

2 King games, 2 back to back OT wins over Houston and OKC, last second buzzer beaters vs. Milwaukee and Miami and those are just games off the top of my head.

The Lakers barely win the majority of their games while their losses have been somewhat lopsided. I believe Denver beat them by 30, Dallas by double digits in Staples, Phoenix did them by 20 and of course you had the Cleveland rout on Christmas day. The Laker media needs to get a dose of reality and quit annointing these guys as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I didn't catch last nite's gm, but it doesn't surprise me they were down by 20. They had to come back from about 14 or so to beat GS the other night.

They play at distinctly different levels of intensity and it's usually a streak of one or the other. They were smoking teams in the previous home stand while now it's this current script every night. They had this basic tendency the last two seasons so it doesn't translate to April and May.

I remember Sac winning at Staples one of those years in a foiled comeback attempt by LA, BU hit a layup iirc. Hold on if you're looking for them to lose because they play the Mavs and Rockets next and they won't beat them by halfa-ssing it for a full half.