Yahoo: Three-way deal sending Nocioni to Celtics? (Yahoo! Sports)
- Thread starter Revrag
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The deal works salary wise...
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5287124
I would hate to see Nocioni go, but I get it. Is Dalembert the big splash? Here is the real question: Is Dalembert worth K9's expiring? I guess so. I really don't see a lot of other great players coming to Sac via free agency unless they are way overpaid... Seriously, Dalembert for 2 years or some other middle of the pack center for 6 years?
Nocioni has such a long contract and the Kings have so many wing players, if that is what it takes, fine.
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5287124
I would hate to see Nocioni go, but I get it. Is Dalembert the big splash? Here is the real question: Is Dalembert worth K9's expiring? I guess so. I really don't see a lot of other great players coming to Sac via free agency unless they are way overpaid... Seriously, Dalembert for 2 years or some other middle of the pack center for 6 years?
Nocioni has such a long contract and the Kings have so many wing players, if that is what it takes, fine.
Well since I proposed we go after Dalembert in another thread, I'm not about to say no to this deal. We get to try out Dalembert for the rest of this year and next year, instead of being stuck with a big contract for four more years. Dalemberts main assets lend themselves to being a very good defensive player. If Westphal can sell him on just playing to his strengths, we could have the piece we need. If not, were not stuck with him. Dalembert is the kind of player that hasn't been a total bust, but hasn't lived up to the expectations of those that drafted him. He is the perfect example of the player that just needs a change of scenery to recharge his batteries.
While Okafor is a shotblocker, he's more of a weakside shotblocker. Dalembert is more of a man on man shotblocker. Statistic wise there's not a lot of difference between them. Age wise there's not a lot of difference between them. Contract wise, there's a huge difference between them. This deal also allows us to move Nocioni's contract. And while I really like Noc, we have a logjam there with Greene, Cisco, and Casspi. So were really killing two birds with one stone, without making any long range commitments.
J.R. Giddens is a young 6'5" shooting guard thats a very good outside shooter. He was a very good defender in college. He's a great athlete with great hops. He loves to dunk the ball, and has won some slam dunk contests. He has very little midrange game and is not that good of a ballhandler. He'd have the rest of this year to make an impression on the team. He was the last pick of the first round by the Celt's in 2008.
Maybe the first question we should ask ourselves is: Is Dalembert better than the backup center we have now? Oh wait! Thats right, we don't have a backup center right now, do we?
While Okafor is a shotblocker, he's more of a weakside shotblocker. Dalembert is more of a man on man shotblocker. Statistic wise there's not a lot of difference between them. Age wise there's not a lot of difference between them. Contract wise, there's a huge difference between them. This deal also allows us to move Nocioni's contract. And while I really like Noc, we have a logjam there with Greene, Cisco, and Casspi. So were really killing two birds with one stone, without making any long range commitments.
J.R. Giddens is a young 6'5" shooting guard thats a very good outside shooter. He was a very good defender in college. He's a great athlete with great hops. He loves to dunk the ball, and has won some slam dunk contests. He has very little midrange game and is not that good of a ballhandler. He'd have the rest of this year to make an impression on the team. He was the last pick of the first round by the Celt's in 2008.
Maybe the first question we should ask ourselves is: Is Dalembert better than the backup center we have now? Oh wait! Thats right, we don't have a backup center right now, do we?
I do not see what's in this for Sacramento. They get a highly overpaid starting center? Is he supposed to be a back up for Hawes? If so, 12 mil a year is too much for this guy. I'm not sure he's really worth it as a starter. Big boost for the Celtics and Nocioni is very off and on for Sacramento but Dalembert is inconsistent too. Is it because Sacramento wants to get rid of Nocioni's contract? If so, why pay someone more for 2 years? Getting rid of Thomas' contract makes sense but Dalembert isn't exactly cheap.
This is a great deal for all sides involved if true.
The Kings get the interior presence they need and balance their inside position somewhat. Instead of one true center in Hawes and multiple PF's, they will now be 2 deep at center and May can move back to backup PF where he is more suited as opposed to starting center.
Also, they clear out the SF logjam. Casspi, when he returns, and Greene need minutes and it's tough to get as long as Nocioni is getting the pt there.
For Boston, they will now have the ideal backup for Pierce at the 3 as Walker and Giddens aren't the answer. Also, they get rid of the 2 guard logjam by letting Tony Allen go as it will now just be Daniels behind Ray Allen.
Philadelphia played their best ball when they went small and would like to shed Dalembert's contract anyways. Maybe moving Brand to C is a good idea in the short term plus they will have cap space in the future.
The Kings get the interior presence they need and balance their inside position somewhat. Instead of one true center in Hawes and multiple PF's, they will now be 2 deep at center and May can move back to backup PF where he is more suited as opposed to starting center.
Also, they clear out the SF logjam. Casspi, when he returns, and Greene need minutes and it's tough to get as long as Nocioni is getting the pt there.
For Boston, they will now have the ideal backup for Pierce at the 3 as Walker and Giddens aren't the answer. Also, they get rid of the 2 guard logjam by letting Tony Allen go as it will now just be Daniels behind Ray Allen.
Philadelphia played their best ball when they went small and would like to shed Dalembert's contract anyways. Maybe moving Brand to C is a good idea in the short term plus they will have cap space in the future.
I'm curious how many more wins posters think this deal would add to the Kings total this year? Noc has been a key element in some of the wins we've had so far, making key shots at the end of some games, and defending pretty well. So how much more valuable do think Dalembert is than Noc to wins this year?
Here is what is in it for Sac:
-Kenny Thomas is valuable as an expiring deal, but this offseason the Kings would be forced to attempt to lure a FA big man to Sacramento and likely have to over pay him over a lot of years.
-Nocioni has a long contract and is in the middle of a logjam of players.
-Dalembert comes to Sac with a high salary (but probably lower than what Sac would pay for a Free Agent in the offseason) and is only on the books for one more season (instead of 5 or 6 more like a Free Agent would want).
-The Kings need another big man, badly.
-J.R. Giddens is a second year player who has an expiring contract. I look at him like Rashad McCants; maybe not a long term King, but he should be motivated to impress anyone he can or his career could be over and that can only lead to hustle plays and high effort.
-Kenny Thomas is valuable as an expiring deal, but this offseason the Kings would be forced to attempt to lure a FA big man to Sacramento and likely have to over pay him over a lot of years.
-Nocioni has a long contract and is in the middle of a logjam of players.
-Dalembert comes to Sac with a high salary (but probably lower than what Sac would pay for a Free Agent in the offseason) and is only on the books for one more season (instead of 5 or 6 more like a Free Agent would want).
-The Kings need another big man, badly.
-J.R. Giddens is a second year player who has an expiring contract. I look at him like Rashad McCants; maybe not a long term King, but he should be motivated to impress anyone he can or his career could be over and that can only lead to hustle plays and high effort.
Here's a more in depth article from ESPN..
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/10741/the-next-big-trade-heres-a-three-team-possibility
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/10741/the-next-big-trade-heres-a-three-team-possibility
Unsure, but the probelm with Noc is he will be on the bench before Casspi and Greene and behind Garcia and the Beno/Tyreke/Martin lineup. You want to talk about an overpaid reserve... who is plays backup C and PF for us now? First off the bench at C or when Jason gets into foul trouble? May? Kenny Thomas? Brockman? Dalembert is better than these guys in many, many ways.
For those against the trade, this might make you happy..
http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/new.../source-nothing-to-dalembert-trade-rumor.html
http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/new.../source-nothing-to-dalembert-trade-rumor.html
I think the one point that is overlooked here is this trade makes Boston a better team... and if Boston improves enough to win another championship, that is one less Laker championship... and, according to himself, it will be all Ron Artest's fault!
Why wouldn't you want to help Boston beat those filthy Lakers? That is a certain +1 in my book.
Why wouldn't you want to help Boston beat those filthy Lakers? That is a certain +1 in my book.
Ignoring the contract, and just looking in terms of game, Dalembert should be a pretty nice fit--he doesn't really hog the ball and thus would allow for the furthering of JT's offensive development, and he fits that athletic/long shotblocker that he haven't seen since the days of Keon Clark. He's averaged 2.0 blocks for his career, and like Clark, has had his work ethic questioned despite being such a athletic defensive presence--if he's able to rebound and block shots well despite putting 50-60% effort, then even at that effort, he's still a more than serviceable NBA player. He's not a standout individual or team defender, but he's good on both ends. Offensively, he'll force passes and show his inability to handle the ball, but garners many dunks, finishes well and shows some short-range ability--that's the extent of it. Wouldn't be a bad option, and certainly better than Okafor
As for Giddens, he's just a great all-around athlete--lacking a bit of height, but super long and a run-and-jump athlete. He actually plays bigger than his body--he's a very capable rebounder, very good finisher and surprisingly a very good shotblocker for someone 6'5ish. He's lacking in his jumper though--his three point shot and mid-range shot are heavy concerns, although he's shown slight potential in this area. I'd prefer Bill Walker, but any athlete out of Boston's youth corps would be fine
As for Giddens, he's just a great all-around athlete--lacking a bit of height, but super long and a run-and-jump athlete. He actually plays bigger than his body--he's a very capable rebounder, very good finisher and surprisingly a very good shotblocker for someone 6'5ish. He's lacking in his jumper though--his three point shot and mid-range shot are heavy concerns, although he's shown slight potential in this area. I'd prefer Bill Walker, but any athlete out of Boston's youth corps would be fine
The only thing better in this trade than the Okafor one is that there wouldn't be as much of a "who starts at C" problem. Dalembert would be a great guy to come off the bench... however, if a team was considering Okafor straight up for Kenny Thomas, it tells me that their are better deal to be had out their... for the right player? That might be a different story. I still like the trade, but I would rather have Okafor here, and not lose Noc... who I think is a big reason for these recent W's.
I like this deal more than the Okafor deal. The obvious reason is that we're not tied up in a huge contract through 2012-2013 season. Dalembert willl give us the same rebounding, better shot blocking, and far worse offense than Okafor.
The most appealing reasons for doing this trade IMO are
1. We get a proven shotblocker/defensive rebounder who won't stunt the growth of Spencer as much as Okafor would have.
2. If it doesn't work out, he comes off the books after next season, meaning next year leading up to the trade deadline we have A LOT more options with Dalembert's expiring contract. If we don't trade it at the deadline, it comes off the books in the summer of 2011. This I don't mind becasue I don't see us signing a big this offseason as good as OKafor or Dalembert.
3. Open up PT for donte and omri. This is also huge for the future. if we can improve our shotblocking and rebounding, while opening up PT for our young wings, that helps solve two problems we've all been concerned with for a while.
The most appealing reasons for doing this trade IMO are
1. We get a proven shotblocker/defensive rebounder who won't stunt the growth of Spencer as much as Okafor would have.
2. If it doesn't work out, he comes off the books after next season, meaning next year leading up to the trade deadline we have A LOT more options with Dalembert's expiring contract. If we don't trade it at the deadline, it comes off the books in the summer of 2011. This I don't mind becasue I don't see us signing a big this offseason as good as OKafor or Dalembert.
3. Open up PT for donte and omri. This is also huge for the future. if we can improve our shotblocking and rebounding, while opening up PT for our young wings, that helps solve two problems we've all been concerned with for a while.
S
something for everyone to remember here is that we weren't going to sign Lebron James/Bosh/Wade or anyone else that would have been anything to get really excited about... the plan going forward is to build up these young talented guys we got that we have signed for cheap for sometime....
I look at this trade like this... Hawes needs to sit the bench and have a fire lit under his ### because he's a freaking joke right now for being so dang talented... he's looking more and more like a less effective offensively... Brad Miller.... ... so having Sam D. who just rebs. and blocks in front of him should send Hawes the point once and for all.... and if Hawes pulls it together then Sam D. is at least a solid role player that fits a need unlike KT and will actually play big mins for us.
all it all its really only for 1 year since Sam D. could be a trade piece and traded like KT with 1 year left on his contract.
plus Noc really isn't happy here even if he's being nice about it.... he wants out.... and we got Casspi and Green(finally) stepping up... and garcia will be back
I look at this trade like this... Hawes needs to sit the bench and have a fire lit under his ### because he's a freaking joke right now for being so dang talented... he's looking more and more like a less effective offensively... Brad Miller.... ... so having Sam D. who just rebs. and blocks in front of him should send Hawes the point once and for all.... and if Hawes pulls it together then Sam D. is at least a solid role player that fits a need unlike KT and will actually play big mins for us.
all it all its really only for 1 year since Sam D. could be a trade piece and traded like KT with 1 year left on his contract.
plus Noc really isn't happy here even if he's being nice about it.... he wants out.... and we got Casspi and Green(finally) stepping up... and garcia will be back
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