Who would best complement Havoc?

[Löwenherz]

There are a lot of arguements floating around about Evans' "true" position, whether he and KMart can coexist in the same backcourt, etc. But I think at this point we mostly agree Havoc has a place in the future of this team.

So, assuming Evans is one of our guards, if you could hand pick someone, who do you believe would be the best player type or even specific player to play off of or expand Evans' style of play and skill set?

I've included a poll of generalities and combined some of Brick's notes on who he thinks is the best complementary player alongside Evans, all of which I tend to agree with:

From Trade Martin? thread:
"In order to get the most out of Evans, in order to let him play his game, these would be the traits I would look for out of his 2-guard:

1) defends well
2) can shoot the three
3) good ballhandler/assistman"

From Grades vs Thunder thread:
"We also got a new piece to the Reke Havoc appropriate backcourt mate puzzle -- while Beno was on his early PG high, Reke was invisible. Pretty much did nothing at all and was just watching the show. And then Beno passed the baton and Reke started doing his Reke thing as a PG, and for the most part Beno was just watching the show. So having a pure PG next to Reke may not be the way to go ... "

" ... Another clue to the appropriate Reke backcourt partner -- somebody fullsized as an OG so the opponent can't just hide their PG on our "OG" like they did tonight. Ideally you want the opposing PG to have to guard Reke so he can pummel them."

In my mind, it sounds like Brick just described Doug Christie ... anyone currently in the NBA who's a Christie clone?

 

[ParniValjak]

A better shooting Christie would be an exceptional fit.

Alternatively, I think that Cisco/Evans backcourt can work and possibly the pairing that best complements each other.

 

[stevetaebo]

I've always liked Delonte West from the Cavs as that type of player who can handle and defend. But he's got about 2 years left and is on a Championship or Bust team.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Sounds like Francisco Garcia.

 

[Spike]

Sounds like Francisco Garcia.

Sure does.

 

[hrdboild]

That was the upside on Garcia when we drafted him -- excellent assist man, occasional three point assassin, plays long on defense. There were questions whether he would be too slow to defend NBA shooting guards on the perimeter though and he's been played more at SF with the Kings.

There's a lot of directions you could go. Personally I'm not as into the idea of finding a glue-guy to complement Reke. Doug Christie was a great great player (and hugely underrated I think) who's skillset is not going to be easy to replicate. I'd rather we go in a different direction and just overload on offense or defense instead of trying to find a perfect balance. I like the idea of pairing him up with another full-sized guard to force a mismatch in our favor at either position. I like the idea of putting another scorer next to him as a kind of "pick your poison" back court scoring nightmare. I like the idea of having another play maker even who could split ballhandling duties like Portland does with Brandon Roy and Steve Blake or we've done with Beno this year. I also like the idea of having a speedy ballhawk like Rondo who can chase the quicker point guards who Reke would have trouble staying in front of. There's lots of matchups that would be good. Reke does so many things well already that you don't have to worry too much about trying to cover up his weaknesses. That's a huge asset to any team.

 

[AriesMar27]

That was the upside on Garcia when we drafted him -- excellent assist man, occasional three point assassin, plays long on defense. There were questions whether he would be too slow to defend NBA shooting guards on the perimeter though and he's been played more at SF with the Kings.

There's a lot of directions you could go. Personally I'm not as into the idea of finding a glue-guy to complement Reke. Doug Christie was a great great player (and hugely underrated I think) who's skillset is not going to be easy to replicate. I'd rather we go in a different direction and just overload on offense or defense instead of trying to find a perfect balance. I like the idea of pairing him up with another full-sized guard to force a mismatch in our favor at either position. I like the idea of putting another scorer next to him as a kind of "pick your poison" back court scoring nightmare. I like the idea of having another play maker even who could split ballhandling duties like Portland does with Brandon Roy and Steve Blake or we've done with Beno this year. I also like the idea of having a speedy ballhawk like Rondo who can chase the quicker point guards who Reke would have trouble staying in front of. There's lots of matchups that would be good. Reke does so many things well already that you don't have to worry too much about trying to cover up his weaknesses. That's a huge asset to any team.

isnt that what we already have with martin?

 

[hrdboild]

isnt that what we already have with martin?

Yeah, it is. And I think it could really work well. I was throwing out lots of possibilities there which probably couldn't be accomplished by one player. They could be accomplished by two players though so maybe the better answer would be which players best compliment Evans because ultimately you're going to need that key third guard off the bench regardless of who your starters are. I think Martin could stick as Evans' wing man because he can shoot for a high percentage and keep the defense honest. I think it would also benefit his game if he (Martin) realized he doesn't need to create as much anymore. Then you would ideally want a quick defensive-minded PG off the bench who can run plays when Evans is off the floor and/or share the back court with him some of the time so Evans doesn't always have to guard the other team's point guard.

I'm not on the "trade Martin and move Reke to SG bandwagon". Not yet anyway. Of course if we somehow end up with John Wall, that would be something to consider, but in the much more likely event that doesn't happen, I don't think Martin and Reke's styles of game are incompatible. Martin doesn't need the ball to get his points. And if there's less pressure for him to be a 25 or 30ppg scorer maybe he will work more on the other aspects of the game? I don't know, but I also don't think he's a finished product yet. I would prefer to have a stronger player out there who isn't going to get outmuscled by anyone. In that sense I don't think Martin will ever be ideal. And most likely his injury issues are related. That's not an indictment of Martin though. That's just genetics.

With Cisco, the main issue I'd have with him in the backcourt is his occasional bouts of turnover-itis. Evans is always going to be a high-turnover player. That just comes with the territory of being both a scorer and a shot creator (see Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Arenas, etc). Two turnover prone players in the backcourt is going to result in a lot of fast break points for the other team though.

 

[AriesMar27]

yeah, most of the options that have been presented by posters would involve evans playing with some type of pg or one hell of a combo guard that doesnt currently exist in the nba. evans can run the offense from the sg position if thats what gives us the best chance to win... unfortunately it would lead to the eventual trade of martin because he cant play sf defensively...

 

[hrdboild]

I should probably simplify what I said before because I do tend to ramble -- I think what we should look to do is smash the other team's back court with two intimidating defenders and cause havoc (heh) that way, or smash them with two intimidating scorers and just shoot them out of the game. Choose a specialty and a style of play and commit to it 100%. Evans has the potential to excel in either situation I think.

 

[AriesMar27]

I should probably simplify what I said before because I do tend to ramble -- I think what we should look to do is smash the other team's back court with two intimidating defenders and cause havoc (heh) that way, or smash them with two intimidating scorers and just shoot them out of the game. Choose a specialty and a style of play and commit to it 100%. Evans has the potential to excel in either situation I think.

but do we have the personnel to do that? do we have a team that fits a evans centered offense? to be honest i dont think we even have a team that can succeed with a guard oriented offense at all... which was probably why last season was so bad. if we are constructing an offense centered around a guard then we would need different bigmen. hawes is soft and a weak rebounder, thompson is scrappy but has problems finishing... nocioni is nocioni.

then we have the problem of can a evans/martin backcourt work? we know that they can get their shots off but the teams ball movement suffers having the two of them take turns attacking the basket. the beno/evans back court that we have now shows some promise but beno isnt a starting quality pg...

its the same problem that portland is having with roy... except they have their future frontcourt pretty much set in stone for the next decade. roy is a ball dominate sg who runs their offense and the blazers cant seem to find the right player to put next to roy. blake, sergio and bayless didnt work so they signed miller...

wade had the same problem once payton and jwill were gone... the only team to figure it out was the lakers, though they either got really lucky with fisher or jerry west is a genius. they got the perfect backcourt on the first try, in the same draft nonetheless...

but now that i think about it, i can think of one player that would work but he isnt much of a shooter... devin harris. he and evans would drive teams crazy... but i doubt that the nets would want martin.

 

[Emma]

It sounds like we need two Evans's. To be real, I think Rondo would have been as close to perfect as it gets. If the Celtics would like Beno, K-9, Noc, whoever, I think we should find a way to oblige.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I've always liked Delonte West from the Cavs as that type of player who can handle and defend. But he's got about 2 years left and is on a Championship or Bust team.

And possible jail time as well.

 

[Emma]

I can't get a Martin for Rondo & Tony Allen trade to work because of something called a poison pill provision, annoying How do you get around that?

Edit: that included Scalabrine as well, matching salaries, ya know.

 

[AleksandarN]

Lockdown Defensive Enforcer

build from the defense up

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I can't get a Martin for Rondo & Tony Allen trade to work because of something called a poison pill provision, annoying How do you get around that?

Edit: that included Scalabrine as well, matching salaries, ya know.

Rondo is a "poison pill" contact because he signed an extension but it has yet to take effect. Details here, in the second half of the answer. This means that as far as Boston is concerned, Rondo's trade value is about $2.1M, but as far as the Kings are concerned it's a hint under $6M, if I've got all the numbers right. So Martin for Rondo + Allen is OK for us (we take in about "$8.5M" and give out about $9.7M), but for the Celtics it's a no-go, as they'd give out only about $4.5M to bring in $9.7M and violate the 125%+100K rule. Basically, the Celtics would have to give up about $7.7M in (actual) salaries to get Martin back. That would correspond to about $10.6M coming back to us...which would be more than we would be allowed to take back.

That's why it's called a "poison pill" - it can be done, but by rule it's really hard to trade.

You can be pretty confident Rondo won't be going anywhere until next year at the earliest.

 

[Chupacabra]

Next to Evans id like to see a 2 guard who is a strong defender and can hit the spot up 3 consistently. Raja Bell?

 

[Oprostaj]

Bell is done... we're building for the future, he would have been good 3-4 years ago. I like the Devin Harris thing but he also needs the ball. I love Delonte West, depending on his legal status I would take him. Not sure why the poster above mentioned he has 2 years? Besides jail time he's still relatively young. He doesn't need the ball but can handle it, has shown to be a good shooter, is strong and can play D, rebound, can run the fast break and has shown good decision making (short of the guns thing, but bi-polar disorder can be a bastard if untreated).

 

[LWP777]

Bell is done... we're building for the future, he would have been good 3-4 years ago. I like the Devin Harris thing but he also needs the ball. I love Delonte West, depending on his legal status I would take him. Not sure why the poster above mentioned he has 2 years? Besides jail time he's still relatively young. He doesn't need the ball but can handle it, has shown to be a good shooter, is strong and can play D, rebound, can run the fast break and has shown good decision making (short of the guns thing, but bi-polar disorder can be a bastard if untreated).

I don't think we'll ever see Delonte West in a Kings uniform. Not any time soon at least. The Kings have shown in this early part of the season that they have really good chemistry and get along well with each other on and off the court. Delonte West is a guy that could kill that. With the Maloofs desperately needing to get more butts in the seats, West could become a PR nightmare. He's just not the type of character the Kings need right now.

 

[Oprostaj]

I don't think we'll ever see Delonte West in a Kings uniform. Not any time soon at least. The Kings have shown in this early part of the season that they have really good chemistry and get along well with each other on and off the court. Delonte West is a guy that could kill that. With the Maloofs desperately needing to get more butts in the seats, West could become a PR nightmare. He's just not the type of character the Kings need right now.

Not sure what he has done besides the gun thing. And for all the flaming I am bound to get for that comment, hear me out. Bi-Polar disorder is very dangerous. I have been around medicine since I was very young (grandma is a doctor), and bi-polar disorder can, and has killed. I followed West when he was at St Joes with Nelson. He was, and still is in the NBA, a model citizen. He is also a likable guy, and has been one of the leaders in the locker room, according to LeBron. I'm not saying trade the house for him, but depending on his legal status, I really have not seem why we shouldn't pick him up. For the love of god, Ray Lewis killed a guy (allegedly), Kobe Bryant at the very BEST commited adultery, I mean you have players left and right commiting various henious crimes that are just terrible, yet they are swept under the rug. I am not excusing what West did. It was dangerous, and he could have hurt himself or others. But I do buy his explanation. I have seen what the disorder can do first hand, that people who have it are two identities in one body. This is the first time EVER that I can recollect it being a problem. I like the guy. If he's available for the right price, take him. Winning will put the seats in Arco. I think that's been proven this decade. We're not signing Vick here.

 

[AleksandarN]

Thabo Sefolosha I think would be the ideal partner on plus side he would be a easier player to trade for.

 

[stevetaebo]

Sounds like Francisco Garcia.

Let's go with this.

 

[Kingster]

If we're talking about the existing team, then Garcia. If we're talking about another team - Mickael Pietrus. Great athlete, long, defends very well, can post up. It's not going to surpise me, though, if the 2 guard of the future is a guy currently in high school, somebody we draft in the next two to three years.

 

[LWP777]

Not sure what he has done besides the gun thing. And for all the flaming I am bound to get for that comment, hear me out. Bi-Polar disorder is very dangerous. I have been around medicine since I was very young (grandma is a doctor), and bi-polar disorder can, and has killed. I followed West when he was at St Joes with Nelson. He was, and still is in the NBA, a model citizen. He is also a likable guy, and has been one of the leaders in the locker room, according to LeBron. I'm not saying trade the house for him, but depending on his legal status, I really have not seem why we shouldn't pick him up. For the love of god, Ray Lewis killed a guy (allegedly), Kobe Bryant at the very BEST commited adultery, I mean you have players left and right commiting various henious crimes that are just terrible, yet they are swept under the rug. I am not excusing what West did. It was dangerous, and he could have hurt himself or others. But I do buy his explanation. I have seen what the disorder can do first hand, that people who have it are two identities in one body. This is the first time EVER that I can recollect it being a problem. I like the guy. If he's available for the right price, take him. Winning will put the seats in Arco. I think that's been proven this decade. We're not signing Vick here.

His wife recently filed a domestic violence report against him also and from what I'm reading, the Cavs aren't too happy with him. I understand he is bi-polar but to me that is more reason to run away from this guy. Right now we have pretty good character guys on the team and I don't think the Maloofs and Petrie would do anything to change that anytime soon.

I think for now, we just let this group that we have play for a while. When Cisco and KMart come back we'll see how they can mix in. If it doesn't work, then we can make a change.

 

[AriesMar27]

jason terry...

 

[Oprostaj]

His wife recently filed a domestic violence report against him also and from what I'm reading, the Cavs aren't too happy with him. I understand he is bi-polar but to me that is more reason to run away from this guy. Right now we have pretty good character guys on the team and I don't think the Maloofs and Petrie would do anything to change that anytime soon.

I think for now, we just let this group that we have play for a while. When Cisco and KMart come back we'll see how they can mix in. If it doesn't work, then we can make a change.

Ok, then I would understand. Did not know about the domestic violence thing. I am prone to defending players first... sort of innocent until proven guilty thing and the fact that there are two sides to every story. If his situation is under control and he is on his medication, he is a perfectly well adjusted individual. I can sort of see why, if his home life is not in a good place, he would go off the deep end. It just seems like a situation where the whole story is not being told, and again, this seems like one incident in a perfectly normal life. But, all things considered you are probably right. Still too early to be messing with this team...we'renot even sure what we have yet.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Thabo Sefolosha I think would be the ideal partner on plus side he would be a easier player to trade for.

No he won't. He can't shoot.

 

[dbfish]

It sounds like we need two Evans's. To be real, I think Rondo would have been as close to perfect as it gets. If the Celtics would like Beno, K-9, Noc, whoever, I think we should find a way to oblige.

Won't happen

Kevin McHale played for the Celtics. He's not their GM.

 

[rainmaker]

Package Kevin and fillers to NO for CP3, since that franchise is sinking incredibly fast. Move Tyreke to sg, Cp3 at point, and you have one of the most versatile backcourts in th league on both offense and defense.

 

[hammystyle]

Versatility: Ball-handling, defense and shooting. Size being a great bonus. Talent trumps all. Tyreke is so talented that he can make it work with anyone, but I think you're best served with someone who's versatile and can play different roles on different nights.

Kevin - is a great shooter, good sized and very talented, but he's very one dimensional (pure scorer) and won't be able help initiate the offense or mix and match on D. (I'm open minded though...perhaps Tyreke is so good he won't need much help, and having an efficient scorer will be perfect...but that's not my best guess).

Cisco - Could be pretty good. Can they mix on D? I think the talent trump question is whether Cisco is the guy you want starting on a contender or just a solid 6th/7th man who fits nicely with Tyreke.

Beno - I think its shown to be a nice fit...but again, the talent issue. I think a contender can find a better version of Beno to pair with Tyreke.

I'm a draft maven....so my ideal (somewhat plausible) scenario is this. We land the top pick and Derrick Favors turns out to be the better prospect over John Wall. He's measured at 6'10" 240 lbs, block shots, rebounds, and lives up to the Alonzo Mourning comparison I saw somewhere.

THEN, via some trade to get a mid-first pick we take Avery Bradley. ESPN considers Avery Bradley the #1 overall RECRUIT ahead of Wall, Favors, Henry etc...but since he's 6'3" without clear PG skills he's not a highly rated draft prospect. But he's great mid-range shooter, who should expand his range, an outstanding athlete...and he's got the best defensive reviews I've ever seen in recruits or draft prospects (and I've followed pretty closely ever since they've started publsihing this stuff online).

So that's my ideal scenario, you get a player who's supremely talented, but doesn't fit perfectly in the NBA, and you pair him with a phenom lyke Tyreke who hides all those issues and gives you two superstars.

Maybe we could just trade Kevin for Monta Ellis.