Grades v. Thunder 11/10/09

Kings Flawed Player of the Game?

  • Jason Thompson -- 21pts 14rebs...6-15FG, 5fls, 5TO, 1327 missed layups

    Votes: 56 54.4%
  • Tyreke Evans 20pts 8rebs 8ast...5-16FG, 5fls, 5TO, numerous forces

    Votes: 30 29.1%
  • Andres Nocioni 16pts 5rebs locked up Durant..for a half (Durant = 37pts)

    Votes: 17 16.5%

  • Total voters
    103
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Nocioni ( B ) -- solid start and kept Durant under control in the early going, and fought his way to a couple of hoops on the other end. I don't think he was credited with any rebs or assists, in the first half, but was in on a lot of scrapping plays and was forcing Durant out on the floor to shoot jumpers, and low percentage jumpers at that. Began the 3rd by poking the ball away from Durant again, but he couldn't contain him for long, and in the final 17 minutes of the game Durant exploded for 25 points, including a three to bring the Thunder within 1, and almost another to tie it at the buzzer. Noc did come up with a big 4pt play of his own in the 4th to break a tied game, and helped on the defensive glass, but obviously things were pretty one sided late and Noc wasn't much of a factor in there down the stretch. Was going to stick with a "+" here for both solid numbers himself (16pts 5rebs on 6-12 shooting) as well as the tough early defense, but in the end just could not justify it in the face of the late Durant fireworks (not all of which were against Noc though).

Thompson ( B+ ) -- Jason continues to be a confusing guy to grade, as rarely has a guy put up such big numbers while looking so bad. 21-14 are great numbers for a big...but the slop just drips sometimes with him. I had few notes on him in the first half, other than that he picked up his first foul on a dead ball off a FT, and that he got victimized once by Green's outside game as he was late coming out to challenge a three. But mostly he just did his work in there and quietly worked his way up to solid numbers by the half. Started off the third making a nice play hustling back to poke a ball away from behind on a Thunder break, but then started a long and very frustrating string of blown layups, fumbled catches, and bad footwork resulting in missed chippee after missed chippee. Missed a pair of follows off a good Hawes feed, missing no fewer than four tips in a row to begin the third, before finally stepping into the corner and splashing in a jumper courtesy of Reke. Continued to show no touch whatsoever, but got to the foul line, picking up 4 FTs in the late third on questionable foul calls out on the perimeter, and on the night shot a very steady 9-10 from the stripe. Picked up a a 24 second violation at the 6:00 mark of the 4th where he just should have shot the ball but got totally lost, and late in the game made a series of turnovers and near turnovers on attempted entry passes from the elbow to Hawes and Evans, throwing them out of reach, or more problematically to the guys in the other uniforms. Got into foul trouble late, but played most of the game before it was any factor. Came up with a big block in the final minutes, but also threw another bad pass up top with inside of a minute to go -- went over Casspi's head for a Thunder breakaway to slice the lead back to 4. Normally so much fugliness would result in a fugly grade, but the tough thing about Jason is that he may have no touch, he may play too fast, he may look clueless at times, but he's like an overeager puppy dog and as soon as he makes a mistake he'll go into hyperdrive (or given the fact that he's always hyper, maybe hyper-hyperdrive) trying to make up for it. So yeah, he blows layup after layup, but he'll thrash around in there trying to get it back..so he can blow another layup. And yeah, he'll make bad turnovers...but he's the first one hustling back to cut off the opposition. And so yeah, there was all kinds of mess here, but in the end, mess or no, he hustled and banged and ran around like a chicken with his head cut off to the tune of 21pts and 14rebs, leading a charge on the glass on a night when we pummeled our opponent's there, and so messy or not, it was a pretty good bigman performance.

Hawes ( B- ) -- well, started this one off in a way guaranteed to pee off a significant chunk of the fanbase -- and yes, if you watched this game you know exactly what I am talikng about. Came out and chucked up a three, then another three, got a fastbreak hoop, and then chucked up yet another three. Flutter indeed. Would have been bad enough if he was making them, but no, we had Brian Cook on our team on a bad night and he bricked all three of them. If the game had been stopped at that point I would not have given him an F, I would have given him an S, for "Screw You Weenieboy." Maybe the scariest part was that at least one of them looked like it may have been designed, with Reke knowing exactly where he was going to be standing and kicking it to him. And yet as you may have noted at the beginning of this grade he earned neither an F nor an S for the game. He settled in, got off the 3pt line, at least by a foot or two, and began to play basketball. Had a ncie open court block on Krstic from behind -- one of 4 blocks he came up with on the night. He was decent on the glass, battling fellow non-board masher Krstic to an 8 to 8 draw, and hisoffense was mostly kept simple. Rather than chuck threes, he up faked and drove. He got several hoops courtesy of Reke and maybe Thompson on cuts to the basket. What he did not do, not even once that I can think of, was go at anybody in the post. All those post moves = going to waste. That's us not using him. That's also him being Flutter and running away to the 3pt line. Made a nice pass from the 3pt line to a flying Omri for a layiup in the early 4th (don't ask what he was doing back out there). And had one more long bricked jumper that I thogut was a 4th three, but the box says must have been a two, that was maybe ok as it was up against the shotclock. This three point nonsense si just that -- he's 0-8 now this season -- and a center who chucks up more 3ptrs than he shoots FTs is pretty pathetic. But once he got the worst of it out of his system, he settled in for a decent game with a few scattered highlights, if not much impact. Decent support player on the night, but if he's not going to work Nenad Krstic inside, which NBA center was he planning on lighting up in there?

Udrih ( B- ) -- Beno remains a bit of a mystery man for this team -- what is keying his revival? What makes him tick? And a fairly mysterious performance here isn't going to clarify things much. Started off this game absolutely on fire, confidence just flowing out of him, clearly runnign the point and jsut racing down court to kick a little OKC *** -- think the Thunder were so focused on Evans they forgot about Beno and Beno responded by driving the ball down their thorat and dominating early play with both the shot and the pass. Think he had 6 of our first 8 points, and he had the asssist on the other basket. But like many things Beno, just as mysteriously faded back into the woodwork. The Thunder called a timeout, during which they probably said "guard Beno" and that was just about that for the half. did have one more nifty assist, but otherwise next to no numbers. We also got a new piece to the Reke Havoc appropriate backcourt mate puzzle -- while Beno was on his early PG high, Reke was invisible. Pretty much did nothing at all and was just watching the show. And then Beno passed the baton and Reke started doing his Reke thing as a PG, and for the most part Beno was just watching the show. So having a pure PG next to Reke may not be the way to go. And actually Beno may not have been that excited about it either -- in the third quarter seemed to be talking to Tyreke alot in while not being involved himself. On a number of occassionas looked liek he wanted the ball, but Tyreke ignored him and ran a play himself. And when Beno did get the ball back, for the most part during the long stretches Reke had ot miss because of foul trouble, Beno was often forcing. At the end of third he did kick the ball to Casspi for an open three, but then when the Thunder turned it over to unexpectedly give us one last chance, Beno came back and threw a bad pass on the break out ahead of Donte, who wasn't lookign for it, and somewhat troublingly did his riase his arms + blame the ohter guy thing,. Dared to stick his nose in there on the offensive glass in the early 4th and got punished for it by Green -- looked like an elbow and then a follow to the face. Airballed an open three look at the 3:00 mark. Made a bad decision with less than 20 seconds to go, rather than running clock, feeding it ahead to Casspi who got fouled...except Casspi has not shown he can a FT yet, and missed both. Gotta know those things as a PG. Kept this at a B- because of the matchup wiht Westbrook -- and that was the matchup tonight -- the Thunder put big defensive specialist Thabo Sefalosha on Reke, and had Westbrook guard Beno (who is a PG afterall), and we followed suit on the other end of the court, probably to try to keep Reke out of foul toruble (did not work). Well, on the ngiht Westbrook was no factor at all (9pts 6ast 5rebs on 3-13FG), and while you would have to be nuttier than a Slovenian fruitcake to attribute all of that to Beno, fact is he pretty much outplayed him head to head.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Evans ( B+ ) -- another tough grade, because you know what? I think if you asked the kid he would tell you he didn't play that well tonight (or not, having just seen his post game remarks :p ). And truth be told I have a sneaking suspicion that as things go along we're going to find out that's true, that this is his B game, or even B- game. But the last King to be able to put up 20-8-8 and get B- type grades was a near HOFer with a big smile and a supermodel for a girlfriend, and Reke isn't quite there yet. Yet. Was turned into a spectator in the early going by the Beno express and took his first break with almost no numbers of any kind. But upon returning and being given the greenlight with the ball it was a whole different story -- a recurring pattern actually. Wonder if he is a guy who just feels his way into games and then cranks it up after getting comfortable? Of course being guarded by Kevin Ollie for a brief stint helped -- immediately established good post position and went at him, but blew the layup -- would be a gamelong pattern as the finishing problems reemerged for the evening. Then just killed Ollie off the dribble and chased him from the game. Grabbed a defensive board and made the running fullcourt pass to Greene for the big dunk and it was that same tantalizing package of do everything skills on display out there. But this time out it was always mixed with a bit of slop, and the game felt more like the game of a talented rooke than the polished gem he threw at Deron. Turned it over to close the first when he thought it was a foul up top and hit the ground. Hit a nifty jumper against the clock, but Harden drew an offensive foul on him a few plays later when he got out of control on the speed break. Came back to just knife through the defense again for the layup and force a Thunder timeout. One good play, one force for much of the night. Got a breather then came back in for a third stint in the second quarter and immediately racked up three assists to Noc, Jason, and Spencer and looked as sharp in the PG skills areas as he has all season. Pulled the Kobe at the end of the second quarter, waving Hawes out of his way in the post so he could iso and blow by Sefalosha (after struggling a bit against Sefalosha's size in the early going -- another clue to the appropriate Reke backcourt partner -- somebody fullsized as an OG so the opponent can't just hide their PG on our "OG" like they did tonight. Ideally you want the opposing PG to have to guard Reke so he can pummel them. Tonight they hid Westbrook on Beno.) Got a little one on one selfish in the early third, missed some layups, and forced some things right into the teeth of the defense. Along the way Sefalaosha was the first guy thus far this season who looked like he could harass him, and came up with 3 steals and 4 blocks (which might be career highs -- Thabo is a defensive specialist, but he's never been a dominant defender and this might have been his career defensive game). When Reke returned for the 4th both Thompson and Donte were unable to convert on his passes, and then critically he picked up a quick 5th foul forcing us to rely on Beno down the stretch. Tried too hard to work the post in the final minutes of the 4th -- kept resulting in forced shots. But he was hustling on the glass and defensively -- especially loves to hit the defensive glass along the baseline and then race up fullcourt with the ball -- and all the offensive pressure was resulting in numerous trips to the line. Hit two clutch FTs with 3.5 seconds to go after Durant had hit a three to make the margin one, and while he still lacks the expereince and is forcing things, you can see already he has the potential to be one of those guys with absolutely no fear at the end of games.

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Casspi ( B- ) -- not his best game, but his production pretty much all came in the 4th, so timely at least. Got off to a sloppy start, turned it over on a bad pass on the break adn then hesitated and got his 3pt attempt blocked by Harden. In the 3rd came back in and was being guarded by Westbrook so we immediately started calling isos in the post to try to take advantage, but could not get it going cleanly. Finally hit a three for his first hoop to close the scoring in the third + give us a 6pt cushion. Was a nice team moment to start the 4th, that could actually have cost us the game: With us up 6 the Thunder got a technical for a defensive 3 second violation, and so we send to the line...OMri Casspi. The guy shooting 25% from the stripe for the year. It was obviously to build his confidence, and it showed both comraderie and a lack of stat padding selfishness by Beno, but given the tight game it was also dangerous. Thing is the kid stepped up and hit it. And if that had been the last FT he had taken in the game, you might have even thought that that was going to turn the tide for him and let him get over this mental thing he's got going. Alas...well, we'll get to that. A few moments after hitting the techical was hit for the flying layup on ther cut by Hawes. And with a little over a minute to go was found by Reke for a big dunk that put us up 6. But the good vibe was spoiled a bit when Omri was fouled on the break with 17 seconds to go...first of all, he and Beno should have dribbled it out rather than force the action with so much time left. And secondly, back at the line again, 4 point game, clutch time and....he chokes both of them. Ouch. Durant came back down the other way and hit a three, and was only a couple of inches away from tying it at the buzzer. Some sort of obvious mental hangup thing going on there. Not sure how to nip it, but don't wnat him to go all Nick Anderson on us, so we'd best find a way. Maybe we cold bring in Chris Dudley as a FT coach. :eek:

Greene ( B- ) -- Greene came in and did a good defensive job on Green :p, sprinted out to take the fullcourt pass from Reke for a dunk. Finally making use of that size/speed on the break with another big dunk in the second quarter, although has to be careful not to leave too soon as that size/speed would also be useful helping to corral the rebound. Good steal to begin his stint in the third and a good job running in front of Durant on a drive when it looked like Durant had a clear lane to the hoop. Not as good as his last two showings, and minutes were limited in the tight game. But while he was out there continued to show focus in the areas that have keyed this sudden transformation -- making defensive hustle plays, and using his size/speed on the break and slashing to the hoop rather than jacking up lazy 3ptrs. So short minutes, middling numbers (6pts 1reb) but a contributing effort again.

Udoka ( C+ ) -- had a good defensive steal in the early 2nd on Collison, but few other highlights. Minutes were solid, althought limitations as an offensive player were evident.

Thomas ( B- ) -- solid on the glass in his first half minutes, and active on the offensive glass tipping things around in the second half. Was a bit sloppy though and his turnover bug jumped up to bite him again. Smoothly stroked in 2 Fts near the end of the third -- least now we know how he's been spedning his time in semi-retirement these last couple of seasons -- FT practice. Now if he only would invite over Omri...
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#4
FYI: The "hater" crap has gotten very old. From now on, if you use the term hater in your post don't be surprised if it just disappears. We can have some good discussion without the name-calling and we will have the good discussion without the name calling. Thanls for understanding and enjoy your flight.
 
#6
FYI: The "hater" crap has gotten very old. From now on, if you use the term hater in your post don't be surprised if it just disappears. We can have some good discussion without the name-calling and we will have the good discussion without the name calling. Thanls for understanding and enjoy your flight.
Thanks VF21. That term has become almost totally meaningless. "Hater" (a word I've never used here) is way to strong a term for most if not virtually all the banter on KingsFans.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#8
we won thats good enough... with all of the turnovers and horrible shooting no one on this team should get an "A"... "B's" for everyone....
 
#10
FYI: The "hater" crap has gotten very old. From now on, if you use the term hater in your post don't be surprised if it just disappears. We can have some good discussion without the name-calling and we will have the good discussion without the name calling. Thanls for understanding and enjoy your flight.
I apologize, haven't been on in a few days and couldn't contain my excitement.
 
#11
I didn't seem like anyone looked particularly good this game, we won it with hustle and grit. Is it possible for no one to get an A but the team as a whole get one? I guess that means we might have a decent coach now. WOHOO!
 
#12
If he can be less dominant and still put up 20/8/8 in 35 minutes, I think that is okay.
Gotta consider the 5 turnovers, the 5 fouls that kept him nailed to 35 minutes, and a less effective post game that kept his FG% under 33.

A few plays he just launched himself at the basket with 3 Thunders in the area, and was fortunate to get bailed out by the refs.

I still like him, but this was less impressive than Utah and Golden State.
 
#13
I didn't seem like anyone looked particularly good this game, we won it with hustle and grit. Is it possible for no one to get an A but the team as a whole get one? I guess that means we might have a decent coach now. WOHOO!

Beno sure looked good in the first two minutes. Probably why he tried to do a bit too much in the mid-game.
 
#15
Beno sure looked good in the first two minutes. Probably why he tried to do a bit too much in the mid-game.
Yeah he was pretty on for those first couple minutes. I got a little frustrated with later in the game when Beno and Evans seemed to be dribbling around for most of the shot clock. Nobody was awful (although some of them had their moments), but I don't think I could give anyone an A unless we are grading the coach.
 
#16
I have no idea who to vote for in the poll. Nocioni had impossible task of trying to slow down Durant and was wearing him all night long despite his 37 pts. But our guy had that big 4 pt play down the stretch. Nocioni's leadership, vocal and by example was also noteworthy. Beno got us off to a fast start and that was so critical but almost forgotten as the game went on, even though he played on effectively. Tyreke was incredible and 10-10 from the line was big, but JT was 9-10 from the stripe, so equally big.

Westphal is so cool and confident with his young team - it's amazing! I was reading ESPN mag NBA Preview at the barber shop today and Kings were only team in the league rated a flat out F overall or D or D- or big fat F for every category analyzed from team chemistry to coaching, etc. Kings at 4-4 at this point must be shocking to those and many so-called experts.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#17
we won thats good enough... with all of the turnovers and horrible shooting no one on this team should get an "A"... "B's" for everyone....
Well, number one, it was a pretty good defensive game. but we shot 44.7% to their 37.4 %. Personally I was impressed with the Thunder's defense tonight. I think the difference came down to rebounding, and we won that battle. It was an ugly game, and we won ugly. Good enough for me.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#18
Gotta consider the 5 turnovers, the 5 fouls that kept him nailed to 35 minutes, and a less effective post game that kept his FG% under 33.

A few plays he just launched himself at the basket with 3 Thunders in the area, and was fortunate to get bailed out by the refs.

I still like him, but this was less impressive than Utah and Golden State.
Would you be willing to admit that the ref's bailed out some of the players on the other team as well. I don't usually complain about the ref's, but this game was less than stellar. How many times did Durant go to the line? 4000 times. The dude is a very good player. He doesn't need to get a call every time someone breathes on him.

I'm glad you still like Evans. He just went for 20/8/8 as a rookie in the NBA. Try and keep your prespective. Were not talking about Wade here. But a rookie whose putting up numbers better than Wade did in his rookie year. At least so far. But you know what. I don't think thats going to change.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#19
I have no idea who to vote for in the poll. Nocioni had impossible task of trying to slow down Durant and was wearing him all night long despite his 37 pts. But our guy had that big 4 pt play down the stretch. Nocioni's leadership, vocal and by example was also noteworthy. Beno got us off to a fast start and that was so critical but almost forgotten as the game went on, even though he played on effectively. Tyreke was incredible and 10-10 from the line was big, but JT was 9-10 from the stripe, so equally big.

Westphal is so cool and confident with his young team - it's amazing! I was reading ESPN mag NBA Preview at the barber shop today and Kings were only team in the league rated a flat out F overall or D or D- or big fat F for every category analyzed from team chemistry to coaching, etc. Kings at 4-4 at this point must be shocking to those and many so-called experts.
I voted for JT because although he was big from the stripe, which I think every player should be but that's a topic for another time, he was also careless on several key plays that could have led to disastrous results.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#20
Beno sure looked good in the first two minutes. Probably why he tried to do a bit too much in the mid-game.
I thought Beno started off the game well. Unfortunately he then went into hyperspeed and out of control at times. He tried to do too much. Sometimes less is more, as they say. When you look at his complete game, it was OK. But not great. He worked hard on defense, but at times rushed the offense, and forgot about getting the ball into the post. It appeared to me, that he thought the only reason Thompson was on the floor was to set screens for him.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#21
The Kings organization took a lot of media flack for hiring Paul Westphal and thus far it's looking like a brilliant move so I guess the joke's on them (and Kurt Rambis after that 41 point shellaking the Warriors hung on his new team). Just more proof the sports writing "experts" have no more knowledge of their subject than the average fan.
 
#22
Well, number one, it was a pretty good defensive game. but we shot 44.7% to their 37.4 %. Personally I was impressed with the Thunder's defense tonight. I think the difference came down to rebounding, and we won that battle. It was an ugly game, and we won ugly. Good enough for me.
I was just thinking the same thing. I think everyone deserves an A. Yeah they didn't play perfect, but the Thunder played damn well especially on defense. We won because we are learning how to be a team and compete for each possession. It's fun to watch.
 
#23
Would you be willing to admit that the ref's bailed out some of the players on the other team as well. I don't usually complain about the ref's, but this game was less than stellar. How many times did Durant go to the line? 4000 times. The dude is a very good player. He doesn't need to get a call every time someone breathes on him.
Oh absolutely, I have no problem with drawing fouls as an intentional strategy (especially when you shoot 100% from the line) But it requires cooperation from the refs; and that is not something that Evans will always be able to rely on. It's just that it'd be nice if he had a plan for what to do in case the whistle didn't blow, and that wasn't apparent tonight.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
#25
I didn't seem like anyone looked particularly good this game, we won it with hustle and grit. Is it possible for no one to get an A but the team as a whole get one? I guess that means we might have a decent coach now. WOHOO!
That is what excites me the most. We didn't play particularly well and came away with the win. We FOUND a way to win even when all aspects of our game were flawed. That is usually what good teams do. When things aren't clicking they do the other things well to get the win.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#26
Well, number one, it was a pretty good defensive game. but we shot 44.7% to their 37.4 %. Personally I was impressed with the Thunder's defense tonight. I think the difference came down to rebounding, and we won that battle. It was an ugly game, and we won ugly. Good enough for me.
no objections here, ugly wins are still wins... its the ugly losses that we should try to avoid.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#27
Yeah he was pretty on for those first couple minutes. I got a little frustrated with later in the game when Beno and Evans seemed to be dribbling around for most of the shot clock. Nobody was awful (although some of them had their moments), but I don't think I could give anyone an A unless we are grading the coach.
I think you have to grade every game based on your opponent. Bricky pointed out that we killed the Warriors in the paint and rebounding. But that the Warriors are a small team that doesn't play very good defense. And, he based his grades accordingly.

Well, in my opinion, the Thunder played pretty good defense tonight. They were aggressive and very physical. They did a good job of denying penatration. Especially after the first quarter. As a result, you saw a lot of dribbling on the perimiter. Blame us, but also give the Thunder credit.

I'll be honest. When I saw how the Thunder was playing defense and the ref's were allowing them to grab and bump, I thought we would be lucky to win this game. It was obviously throwing our team out of synch. I was impressed by our response. We didn't get rattled, and despite mistakes, we kept responding. Last year we would have folded. Evans wasn't perfect tonight by a longshot. But he has a calm and confidence about him that seems to rub off. I can't wait to seee him play three years from now. Think about it. He hardly had his best game tonight. And he still went off for 20/8/8. Not bad for a bad game...
 
#28
Would you be willing to admit that the ref's bailed out some of the players on the other team as well. I don't usually complain about the ref's, but this game was less than stellar. How many times did Durant go to the line? 4000 times. The dude is a very good player. He doesn't need to get a call every time someone breathes on him.

I'm glad you still like Evans. He just went for 20/8/8 as a rookie in the NBA. Try and keep your prespective. Were not talking about Wade here. But a rookie whose putting up numbers better than Wade did in his rookie year. At least so far. But you know what. I don't think thats going to change.

ehhhhhhhhh.. Kind of went both ways on that one.. In the 3rd though it really started getting out of hand how many foul calls there were..

Overall ugly game, but a W is a W. If Evans can perform like that in an ugly win then it's fine by me.
 
#30
I think the more important development was Evans's free throw shooting. 10-10 tonight for a guy who wasn't a supposed shooter is very impressive, and to be doing this just 8 games into his rookie season shows that his jumper has really come a long way. In terms of shooting, he's already ahead of Rondo, and for someone with his magnitude of physical tools that's great to see.
 
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