2nd workout for Jrue Holiday

[Gary]

I have a feeling that if the Kings weren't able to land Rubio that Holiday would be ours with the 4th pick (or we trade down to get him). I like Holiday and have since he played High School, but not with the #4 pick.

Another thing that sucks is that I had a dream that we drafted him with the #4 and everyone was wondering why we didn't trade down to get another player or pick

 

[fnordius]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGH!

Please, Geoff, not another freakin' tweener guard. I didn't suffer through the last year for a rich man's Douby.

 

[xyrin]

He was stuck out of position last year. He wants to be a point guard, but that spot was reserved for Collison. I really think he'll be a point guard, and a pretty big one at that, in the NBA, and not a tweener.

 

[AriesMar27]

if we could somehow get another pick like the wizards #5 pick then maybe but with the #4

 

[Bricklayer]

Yeah, this one scares me as he flat out sucked last year and deserved absolutely none of that hype.

But when I said after somebody proposed taking him earlier that he actually sucked so bad I was encouraged, I was not entirely kidding. The player I watched had no NBA potential whatsoevfer. He wasn't fast, wasn't quick, wasn't a shooter, wasn't terribly creative, wasn't a lockdown defender -- in short he was a waste of space even at the college level. But given the extreme hype that same player got coming out of high school, there were either some really really stupid scouts, or...well, I'm not sure of the or. I'm just semi-convinced that I did not see the best he had, because if I did see the best he had he'd be a reach at #31, let alone #4. There's just got to be something there that keeps credible basketball people interested despite the lack of productivity. Has to be. I hope for our sakes at least.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

We've breached on Holliday's skills as a player before, and he's just not worth the 4th pick. It's an even worse case than Flynn--Flynn at least did put up college stats that could translate well to the NBA level. Holliday really could have used another year at UCLA, and with Collison leaving he could have strut his stuff at PG and show where his skill really lies. Instead it's all guesswork with him and what he can truly develop to.

Skillwise, we've established that Holliday will be a pretty good defender at the NBA level (he's a pretty good stealer, has pretty good lateral quickness for point guard standards and he has the height to crossmatch between both guard positions) and some potential passing ability--it's just ordinary as of now, but with him playing out of position, having little confidence, I think this would improve. An NBA-ready defender and potentially good passer is about the extent I'd go--I really think the shooting ability is problematic, check the other thread for my reasoning there. And if he can't shoot, the passing will go too as defenders lay off him, so eventually mental toughness may be questioned--I honestly don't know. He'll have to rely on smarts to succeed in the league--he isn't terribly athletic or terribly quick for a point guard, so that does limit is potential some.

So it's really amazing how he's rising up draft boards. I'm not in the loop, but his defense must really endear him to GMs and scouts. I honestly don't know. I've guessed whether it's the halo that still lingers from his All-American high school career, whether versatile defensive roleplayers are popular nowadays, etc.--because I don't see much talent beyond that of a early 20s pick with him. But we shouldn't get him at the 4th pick. 23rd pick maybe--I'm 95% sure he won't be there with the hoopla around him, though.

 

[Nighthawk1]

If we don't get Rubio, I won't be 100% against picking Jrue, but not at #4.... I think we can try to buyout #5-10 and have a chance at him or another skilled guard.... If we're at #4 with Harden sitting there, I say we take him then work on trading for another lower pick to grab a skilled PG in late lottery

 

[wonjaeyou]

Seriously, Holiday isn't worth 4th pick. Even if he was playing out of position in UCLA, he should have done better than what he showed us. I think his stocks going up because they are not playing 5 on 5 game at the camp. If they did, I'm sure his stock would drop. Westbrook is much better player than Holiday, and I believe he was playing out of position. If we can't get Rubio, then go for Harden, DeRozan, Flynn. At least Flynn can play decent.

 

[Aenadin]

i think this is a back up plan incase memphis or okc does not want to trade for rubio... if thats the case trade down for him or buy the 5th pick too..

but just cause hes getting a 2nd look that doesnt mean hes a sure lock to be a king

 

[Capt. Factorial]

he isn't terribly athletic or terribly quick for a point guard, so that does limit his potential some.

I'm not so sure about that, looking at the athletic testing from Chicago.

There were 13 PGs on hand, and Holiday finished fourth in the agility testing, in front of known quick PGs like Flynn, Mills, Lawson and Teague, and was a full second faster than Derrick Rose from last year.

He did finish towards the back of the pack in the 3/4 court sprint, but if you drop the one fastest (Douglas) and one slowest (Vasquez) the entire pack was between 3.1 and 3.28 seconds, and Holiday was at 3.21 (again, enough to beat the "speedy" Flynn).

His no-step and max jumps were right in the middle, and given his very good vertical reach, he was #3 in no-step reach and #5 in max reach.

I would say that his performance in college is far more concerning than his quickness and athleticism, which look to be above average for PGs in a good PG draft.

 

[sactownfan]

the combine is WAAAAY overrated!!!! guys get over it....

Westbrook was considered to be an absolute athletic stud...
UCLA's Jrue Holiday often gets compared to his teammate Russell Westbrook. How did they fare in the athletic category?

Westbrook measured 36.5 inches on his vertical jump, while Holiday hit 34 inches. Westbrook also got the best of Holiday in the sprint, measuring a blazing 3.08 seconds to Holiday's solid 3.23 seconds. Westbrook also benched the 185-pound bar 12 times to Holiday's six times.

However, Holiday bested Westbrook on the lane-agility drill with a pretty impressive 10.64-second score. Westbrook's score was 10.98 seconds.

Overall, it's pretty clear that Westbrook is a better athlete, but Holiday isn't too shabby either.

so Holiday compared to an "absolute NBA ready, athletic stud" is not that behind...

KEEP IN MIND THIS IS ALL NON BASKETBALL RELATED....

ALSO i 100% think that Holidays situation at UCLA was much different than Westbrook's. First off Westbrook's team overall was much better... Sec off Westbrook is more of a tweener than Holiday thus why Westbrook did better as a SG/PG vs Holiday who is more of a true PG...

 

[asakkings]

Can you guys think of someone in the NBA now who was terrible in college but ended becoming a solid player. I cant think of anyone but if you can let me know.

 

[jthompson1]

the combine is WAAAAY overrated!!!! guys get over it....

Westbrook was considered to be an absolute athletic stud...
UCLA's Jrue Holiday often gets compared to his teammate Russell Westbrook. How did they fare in the athletic category?

Westbrook measured 36.5 inches on his vertical jump, while Holiday hit 34 inches. Westbrook also got the best of Holiday in the sprint, measuring a blazing 3.08 seconds to Holiday's solid 3.23 seconds. Westbrook also benched the 185-pound bar 12 times to Holiday's six times.

However, Holiday bested Westbrook on the lane-agility drill with a pretty impressive 10.64-second score. Westbrook's score was 10.98 seconds.

Overall, it's pretty clear that Westbrook is a better athlete, but Holiday isn't too shabby either.

so Holiday compared to an "absolute NBA ready, athletic stud" is not that behind...

KEEP IN MIND THIS IS ALL NON BASKETBALL RELATED....

ALSO i 100% think that Holidays situation at UCLA was much different than Westbrook's. First off Westbrook's team overall was much better... Sec off Westbrook is more of a tweener than Holiday thus why Westbrook did better as a SG/PG vs Holiday who is more of a true PG...

When were they ever teammates?

 

[Bricklayer]

Can you guys think of someone in the NBA now who was terrible in college but ended becoming a solid player. I cant think of anyone but if you can let me know.

Oh, it happens occasionally nowadays with freshmen type players. Gerald Wallace is a good example -- his coach played him out of position as a back to the basket PF and I think he averaged less than 10ppg. But you could still see the amazing athletic tools at least.

 

[kingsfan1O]

Holiday already solidified himself as a top 10 lock due to his potential and physical attributes. Holiday will not last outside of lotto. The Kings are very interested in Holiday due to the given reasons and knowing Petrie, Holiday is good.

 

[asakkings]

I forgot about Wallace, thats a good example.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Oh, it happens occasionally nowadays with freshmen type players. Gerald Wallace is a good example -- his coach played him out of position as a back to the basket PF and I think he averaged less than 10ppg. But you could still see the amazing athletic tools at least.

Anthony Randolph could become another example, although it's too early to say anything definitive. However, the difference between Wallace/Randolph and Holiday is that the first two were physical freaks who just didn't put it all together in college, but had obvious tools. Holiday is nowhere close to their level physically, which is what's so worrying.

 

[gunks]

Maybe Holiday is showing some sick PG skills in the 2 v 3 drills?

I dunno....If its a Petrie pick I will be cautiously optimistic, regardless of who's chosen. I cant even fault him for grabbing Douby, its not GP's fault the kid gets the yips in the big league.

 

[sactownfan]

Maybe Holiday is showing some sick PG skills in the 2 v 3 drills?

I dunno....If its a Petrie pick I will be cautiously optimistic, regardless of who's chosen. I cant even fault him for grabbing Douby, its not GP's fault the kid gets the yips in the big league.

agreed... Douby was an uncharacteristic Petrie bust... He didn't play it safe with Rondo... NO ONE KNEW how good Rondo would be... however it was a risky pick from the start... Petrie swung for the fences and missed big, theres always gonna be "should of's and could of's" in the draft, and Petrie would like to take this one back... but no one could have predicted how bad Douby would end up being. He really played at a very high level in college and was usually double or triple teamed being the only good player on his team... Oh well

But i do trust in Petrie especially with drafting... He will find a winner!!! I do believe that!

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Randolph averaged 16 pts, 9 rebs, 1 steal and more than 2 blocks per game in his lone season in college, so he doesn't qualify.

As for Wallace, it's true that he wasn't putting up mindblowing stats, but he was a jaw dropping athlete and he did things in college that, as we see now, translated well into the NBA--he had a very good rebound rate for a SF, he had a high free throw rate, and blocked shots extremely well out of college, and not surprisingly all three translated well into the NBA. He was truly able to ride his athleticism into the league.

The problem with Holiday is that he didn't do anything particularly well offensively in college--I've said before that for PG standards, his passing was quite average, and of course his shooting was abysmal. And of course, he's far from the athletic class of Gerald Wallace, so he's not being drafted for current production or athletic potential. We're just left with guesswork on skill potential--can he develop the passing in a more free system? Is he really a lead point? I have severe reservations, but as a prospect he definitely doesn't look as appealing to me as Gerald Wallace did.

As for Douby, while he was an efficient scorer/shooter in college (that's what we drafted him for), he had definite offensive shortcomings, most notably with his passing--even for shooting guard standards, he was a mediocre passer, and he had one of the worse free throw rates for both guard positions. He was a good stealer and shotblocker in college, and we saw some glimpses of that during his time with the Kings, but he was just utterly one-dimensional as just a shooter--he took nearly 50% of his shots as three pointers during his time in college. Another thing--his sophomore year was completely terrible with his shooting (50% TS)--while some might have wrote that down as a fluke because of his stellar junior year, it turns out that year might have been a reflection of his true ability. So he hasn't been wholly consistent throughout his college career, and that should have been seen as a warning sign in retrospect.

 

[BMiller52]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGH!

Please, Geoff, not another freakin' tweener guard. I didn't suffer through the last year for a rich man's Douby.

You honestly think his game is similar to Douby's? Because that's not a good comparison at all. Douby was a really broke man's Gilbert Arenas without the ball handling ability and he lived on getting open Js in college. Holiday is a passer/defender with pretty good size for the PG spot.

 

[fnordius]

You honestly think his game is similar to Douby's?

Not really. Both are PG-sized, and both had reps as good defenders. Neither one had a college career as a PG that left one with a good feeling. But the objective similarities end there.

The bigger similarity was how I felt about the prospect of having them in purple. In that way, they're really quite a bit alike.

 

[Aenadin]

he could be working out with another prospect.. could be rubio, flynn or who ever.. but im pretty sure this doesnt mean hes a sure lock at the 4.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Randolph averaged 16 pts, 9 rebs, 1 steal and more than 2 blocks per game in his lone season in college, so he doesn't qualify.

He had decent numbers, but all the draft gurus who actually crunched numbers (e.g. Hollinger or BBall Prospectus) had him ranked dead last in terms of draftable prospects because of poor percentages and other shortcomings.

 

[CaAllDay]

seems holiday is seein the same sorta late hype westbrook did. I think douby can be a good pro, he missed some shots but never got consistant minutes , if he gets minutes he will produce. Holiday, jennings, mills , rubio all would be okay with me.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Thing is, Holiday hasn't shown half what Westbrook did last year.

There is also a thing called game speed. The combine is limited in what it can tell you. It's great to see him put up decent numbers and times, but why couldn't you see it when he was playing? He never looked like a particularly good athlete. Good defender, but showed little else. I acknowledge that he was played out of position, but it means very little. You don't take him with the 4th pick. No way.

I'd just sit on number 4. If Rubio is there, great. If not, I'd have no problem taking Flynn, Harden, or even Hill. But I'm not willing to give up JT or Hawes to move up a couple spots. But what happens with Harden if we take him? You don't use a number 4 on a backup.

 

[Kingster]

Yeah, this one scares me as he flat out sucked last year and deserved absolutely none of that hype.

But when I said after somebody proposed taking him earlier that he actually sucked so bad I was encouraged, I was not entirely kidding. The player I watched had no NBA potential whatsoevfer. He wasn't fast, wasn't quick, wasn't a shooter, wasn't terribly creative, wasn't a lockdown defender -- in short he was a waste of space even at the college level. But given the extreme hype that same player got coming out of high school, there were either some really really stupid scouts, or...well, I'm not sure of the or. I'm just semi-convinced that I did not see the best he had, because if I did see the best he had he'd be a reach at #31, let alone #4. There's just got to be something there that keeps credible basketball people interested despite the lack of productivity. Has to be. I hope for our sakes at least.

Totally agree. I don't understand the hype.

 

[ElRey]

Totally agree. I don't understand the hype.

I'm going to be pissed if we draft Holiday at #4. He's not quick or athletic; he can't create his own shot. The only thing he's got is great height for a pt guard. If you going to draft Holiday at #4, then you might has well take Evans instead who can at least penetrate and break down defenders. Maybe they're just bringing him back to go up against Rubio...

 

[bajaden]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGH!

Please, Geoff, not another freakin' tweener guard. I didn't suffer through the last year for a rich man's Douby.

Well I'll tell you. If I were a highly touted pt guard coming out of highschool, I would damm well pick a college that promised me that I would be starting at point guard for them. It amazes me how a player suddenly gets painted as the next Douby, who was never a point guard, because he was forced to play out of position in college.

 

[Showtime]

So much is riding on this draf, GP, the team, and the fans can't afford another Douby.