Get both Rubio and Griffin ...

K

KingsCitizen

Starter
#1
#1
From one thread to another there is always a debate on either picking Rubio or Griffin and which one should wear the Kings Jersey. This thread is to propose an alternative which I think haven't been raised. Why not get both of them and how?

Here's a thought: If the draft will fall according to the current standings then Washington and LAC will be the two teams that will draft after us. Both of them will happily snatch Griffin if we happen to take Rubio as top pick because these teams already have superstar PGs (Arenas, and Davis) with bloated untradeable contracts which both stretches for years (actually 2014 and 2014 respectively).

Now if we pick Griffin first, either may grab Rubio being the 2nd overall consensus. However these two teams will have a much harder dilema than we had for picking Griffin even if there is Thompson. Are they willing to let a number 2 pick PG rot behind superstar PGs until 2014? If not, how about Petrie trading an offer of a young prospect or expiring contract, an effective veteran, and a future top draft pick for Rubio and maybe some of their garbage contract.

Maybe for Washington Petrie try this offer

Rubio + E. Thomas(7M) and Stevenson (4M) = 2010 pick(top 3 protected) + Nocioni(7.5M) + McCants(S&T 3.5M) + 2009 (Houston pick)

And since were below the cap, we can even eat more garbage salary that they want to throw. And beside I don't think the Wizards roster has any Kenny Thomas (contract and attitudewise).

And if the Clippers get Rubio, how about offering this:

Rubio + Zach Randolph (16M ouch!) for 2010 pick(top 3 protected) + Beno(6M)/Nocioni(7.5M)/Thomas (8.5M) + 2009 (Houston pick) and 2009 (31st pick)....The excess salary of the Clips will use our cap space.

If this works, we get both Rubio and Griffin and officially close the rebuilding stage and start the playoff hunt. :D:D:D
 
K

KF8

Starter
#3
#3
I could see the Wizards trading the #2 pick because they already have Arenas and they might not have the patience for Rubio to develop. They have so many big contracts committed to their players. Their time to contend is now. I think to get this done, we will have to package someone who could have an immediate impact and not just for salary dump. Take it for what it's worth but this was what butler said about their draft pick. link below.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/58453/20090410/butler_only_griffin_will_help_wizards/
 
Revrag

Revrag

Father, Husband, KingsFan
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#4
#4
I don't think you even get someone to answer the phone for a number 2 without offering up one of our top guys (Martin, Thompson, or Hawes).

The Sonics gave up Allen a couple of years back for the #5 pick.
 
SacKings7

SacKings7

Starter
#5
#5
JGar said:
I don't think you even get someone to answer the phone for a number 2 without offering up one of our top guys (Martin, Thompson, or Hawes).

The Sonics gave up Allen a couple of years back for the #5 pick.
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Yeah, but that was a much better draft, and different circumstances. The Sonics needed to rebuild, and saw their chance at landing 2 top 5 picks in a good draft, and Pierce publicly stated that the team bring in more veterans instead of more draft picks.

Not saying that us trading for #2 is likely, though.
 
sidney

sidney

Starter
#6
#6
JGar said:
I don't think you even get someone to answer the phone for a number 2 without offering up one of our top guys (Martin, Thompson, or Hawes).

The Sonics gave up Allen a couple of years back for the #5 pick.
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yeah, I don't think you can get pick 1 or 2, but if the Wizards land 3, 4 or 5...

perceived weak draft, 3 all star vets wanting to win now, world financial crisis + team is looking at being about 10M over the TAX line costing them 20M, an owner that has NEVER been over the tax line, rumors already out there about them being willing to let the pick go? It's possible, but again I think only for a 3, 4, or 5 pick. Giving up Griffen or Rubio to save money would be a PR disaster for any team.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#7
#7
Oops, I talked about this in the other thread where Sidney raised a trade with Washington -- I have been eying that Washington pick since February when it was obvious we would both end up near the very bottom. And I agree that if they get the #1/#2 with it, the guy we would have to offer up is Kevin Martin -- they've gto PG, SF and PF covered. And maybe center too with Haywood coming back. But OG is a mess. When the John Wall story popped up last week I began to really ponder that possibility -- trade Kevin for John Wall basically, draft our own Griffin or Thabeet (depending on where our pick came in) and resign McCants to platooin with Cisco at the OG. When I threw in my Hedo signing I had a real interesting looking team. Now with Wall back out I am not as sure, but if you are a Rubio as star believer and we ended up with the #3 or #4 it would still be in my playbook. Trade Kevin for Rubio, draft Thabeet, patch both the interior shotblocking and PG play right at the top of the draft, still have two more picks to go for depth.
 
D

Dustinlikestodance

G-League
#8
#8
I also posted in reply in that thread. I'll ask it here as well. Martin for #2/McGee? McGee is super athletic and he's been a shotblocking machine for Washington when they actually play him.
 
sidney

sidney

Starter
#9
#9
Dustinlikestodance said:
I also posted in reply in that thread. I'll ask it here as well. Martin for #2/McGee? McGee is super athletic and he's been a shotblocking machine for Washington when they actually play him.
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I would likely want to trade Martin for Wall from limited glimpses of him. Probably Rubio. Probably not for anything else in this draft.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#10
#10
The thing that is really starting to interest me in this draft is where Rubio will actually go. It seems like we are the only team that would take him in the top 4 if the lottery worked out as planned.

The Wizards have Arenas and with that much money invested in him it would be hard for them to pick a point guard. I could see them going after Thabeet or Harden.. or even Henderson.

Then theres LA. Baron Davis.

Then OKC. Russell Westbrook.

Then the Twolves pick, Thats the team that will probly target a PG/ Rubio.

If we trade for the second pick ( assuming its washington ) we might need to deal away Kmart, but if we can get OKC's pick for Thompson ( a team that could actually use JT ) or LA's pick for Thompson we could still land Griffin and Rubio.

Unlikely, but interesting.
 
SacKings7

SacKings7

Starter
#11
#11
Bricklayer said:
Oops, I talked about this in the other thread where Sidney raised a trade with Washington -- I have been eying that Washington pick since February when it was obvious we would both end up near the very bottom. And I agree that if they get the #1/#2 with it, the guy we would have to offer up is Kevin Martin -- they've gto PG, SF and PF covered. And maybe center too with Haywood coming back. But OG is a mess. When the John Wall story popped up last week I began to really ponder that possibility -- trade Kevin for John Wall basically, draft our own Griffin or Thabeet (depending on where our pick came in) and resign McCants to platooin with Cisco at the OG. When I threw in my Hedo signing I had a real interesting looking team. Now with Wall back out I am not as sure, but if you are a Rubio as star believer and we ended up with the #3 or #4 it would still be in my playbook. Trade Kevin for Rubio, draft Thabeet, patch both the interior shotblocking and PG play right at the top of the draft, still have two more picks to go for depth.
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We could still offer that trade to the bottom teams next year :D. Won't go for it though. Too bad
 
A

Arby's Roast Beef

Starter
#12
#12
Wait, so we are getting Rubio without trading back Martin, Thompson, Hawes, or even Garcia? And we're getting rid of just what we already considered our expendable players?

Impossible
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#13
#13
I would not trade Kmart for a prospect....not even a #1 or #2 prospect. I would package him in a deal for someone who is already an All Star - but not a prospect.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#14
#14
the wizards want to move the pick because they are up against the cap. they dont want to take on more salary. maye a deal like kt for haywood and stevenson for the kings trade exemption with swapping the wiz pick for the 23rd and second round. it may take jt to get it done too.

but it will cost us 2010 cap space.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#15
#15
Section 101 said:
the wizards want to move the pick because they are up against the cap. they dont want to take on more salary. maye a deal like kt for haywood and stevenson for the kings trade exemption with swapping the wiz pick for the 23rd and second round. it may take jt to get it done too.

but it will cost us 2010 cap space.
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Well hell yeah just throw in JT. :rolleyes:
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
#16
kupman said:
I would not trade Kmart for a prospect....not even a #1 or #2 prospect. I would package him in a deal for someone who is already an All Star - but not a prospect.
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Would you have traded him for LeBron in 2003?

There are prospects and then there are prospects. About the only way you can turn a Kevin Martin player into a franchise player is to take a chance. But it all depends on what you think of the prospects in question of course. I wouldn't burn him on a mere flyer, but if there was somebody who looked major at a spot we need, SG is not one of the more difficult positons to fill.
 
Kings Faithful

Kings Faithful

Starter
#19
#19
Bricklayer said:
Yeah I know -- if he actually did declare that would make things really interesting. That might be that special talent that is otherwise lacking in this draft.
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Looking at that video it would be very tempting to trade K-Mart for him...however, i just wouldn't agree with it because he isn't a sure thing...he could end up being another athletic PG like Ronnie Price for all we know.
 
N

Nighthawk1

Starter
#20
#20
John Wall is amazing so far, he'd make it tough to decide between Rubio when that came up....

I'm suprised Brick brought up trading KMart, because I was going to post that in another thread but I thought it'd be too controversial and I'd get flamed off the board! Here is my reasoning, Garcia and Mccants can fill in for KMart, they can score and shoot, but more importantly they play much better defense and play tougher. Would I trade KMart for a prospect like a Rubio, Griffin, or John Wall? Yes I would!
 
BawLa

BawLa

Starter
#22
#22
I would trade Kevin for Wall or Rubio without pause.

We picked up Kevin in the mid-late first round. Houston's pick could land us a similar talent. My friend always says that guys like Kevin Martin are a dime a dozen. For the most part he's right. We just had John Salmons. Garcia could get there. The one thing I will say that Kevin has that few OG's have is that extra quick burst of speed but given his fragility lately I wouldn't hesitate to get a nice prospect that lines up with our rebuilding movement.
 
D

dj3ptspecialist44

G-League
#24
#24
kupman said:
I would not trade Kmart for a prospect....not even a #1 or #2 prospect. I would package him in a deal for someone who is already an All Star - but not a prospect.
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I wouldn't trade Kevin Martin for anybody. I'm tired of people trying to trade Kevin Martin, because he's not a "star" how many of those are really in the NBA get serious. The guy puts up numbers is a good character guy sure he has been hurt but so is McGrady who is labeled as a "star. Too much emphasis is put on that word and it means nothing either you can play or you can't. Also nobody in this draft is better than Kevin Martin and probably won't be. K-mart is 25 or 26 years old I believe he goes no where he's the only player worth watching on the team and you want to trade him for an 18 year old unproven EURO player get serious. Rubio is good but he's not god.
 
D

dj3ptspecialist44

G-League
#25
#25
I just don't think people think about stuff wisely. There's probably not a more efficient player in the league who doesn't need to dominate the ball to get their points like K-mart. If you want a star you can easily get one and pair him with K-mart, because somehow at the end of the game K-mart will get his points. Say what you want about his defense, but I'm sorry very few players play defense in the NBA it's so over rated. K-MART HAWES AND THOMPSON are the future and if we get griffin or rubio this team will be better than people think it will be.
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#26
#26
Hmmm.. To get both picks?

Well.... If its OKC then it's out of the question.. We can all agree on that.

So the Clippers... We would need to give them Thompson, #23, #31, next years 1st pick... But I cannot see them doing it unless we got the #1 and picked Griffin. I don't even think the Clips like Baron Davis. Davis isn't a very good team player.

Washington.... We could give them major cap relief and a couple picks... So they take Rubio, and we give them Thompson, #23, #31, Trade exception, Greene and we take back a couple of their toxic salaries.
 
Kings Faithful

Kings Faithful

Starter
#27
#27
dj3ptspecialist44 said:
I just don't think people think about stuff wisely. There's probably not a more efficient player in the league who doesn't need to dominate the ball to get their points like K-mart. If you want a star you can easily get one and pair him with K-mart, because somehow at the end of the game K-mart will get his points. Say what you want about his defense, but I'm sorry very few players play defense in the NBA it's so over rated. K-MART HAWES AND THOMPSON are the future and if we get griffin or rubio this team will be better than people think it will be.
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I agree... I don't think its reasonable to trade K-Mart for prospects, especially when their future impact on the NBA is completely unknown. If we were trading for Lebron then fine, w/e...but I'm not giving up the most efficient player in the league for a possibility at getting a bench player in return.
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#28
#28
Bricklayer said:
Would you have traded him for LeBron in 2003?

There are prospects and then there are prospects. About the only way you can turn a Kevin Martin player into a franchise player is to take a chance. But it all depends on what you think of the prospects in question of course. I wouldn't burn him on a mere flyer, but if there was somebody who looked major at a spot we need, SG is not one of the more difficult positons to fill.
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I should have been more clear. I would not do it for any prospects going right now - John Wall included. Lebron James and maybe 2-3 others in the last 20 years, but it would have to be a rare occurrence. You could easily trade away your best player for someone like Kwame Brown or Darko. That would suck.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#29
#29
Kings Faithful said:
I agree... I don't think its reasonable to trade K-Mart for prospects, especially when their future impact on the NBA is completely unknown. If we were trading for Lebron then fine, w/e...but I'm not giving up the most efficient player in the league for a possibility at getting a bench player in return.
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The most efficient player in the league shot 42% as the leading scorer on a 17 win team. He proved largely worthless without great players to take the pressure off of him. His oncourt/offcourt +/- for the season was exactly the same as Beno's (+2.4). You don't throw him away, but the risk is not nearly what you make it out. What's the worst that happens next year? We slip all the way down to 15 wins?

Not for just anyone. Not for random picks, not for multiple later picks. The point is not to just toss Kevin. But if you see someone who could be a franchise turner out there burning Kevin should be no real object, because you know he is not one.
 
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Kings Faithful

Kings Faithful

Starter
#30
#30
Bricklayer said:
The most efficient player in the league shot 42% as the leading scorer on a 17 win team. He proved largely worthless without great players to take the pressure off of him. His oncourt/offcourt +/- for the season was exactly the same as Beno's (+2.4). You don't throw him away, but the risk is not nearly what you make it out. What's the worst that happens next year? We slip all the way down to 15 wins?

Not for just anyone. Not for random picks, not for multiple later picks. The point is not to just toss Kevin. But if you see someone who could be a franchise turner out there burning Kevin should be no real object, because you know he is not one.
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No the risk isn't that we slip down to 15 wins... the risk is being a 20 win team for a few more years. And I don't see a franchise turner which is why I don't want to trade him.
 
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