Griffin or Thompson

[Oprostaj]

well first of all, as they were talking about above, i was saying that griffin would be drafted above those guys if he were in their drafts given the prospect that he currently is. but regardless of that, id still say griffin will be much better than gordon or love. (i didnt mention brook lopez for a reason). Will he be STRONG enough? have you seen the kid? he is a specimen, and tries harder than everyone on the court. put hansbroghs motor with amares athleticism and you get blake's raw tools.

I love Griffin's game, just for the record. I've watched him extensively, so yes I know his strenght and drive and athleticism. I'm not saying he's weak, but there is a big difference in strenght by position. If you are undersized for your position, you better be the STRONGEST, otherwise you will be average. The biggest difference in between the college and NBA game is the disparity in positioning. A PF in college isn't necessarily that. In the NBA, you better have a post game or a J game otherwise you are Ben Wallace. Now, Griffin is much more athletic than that, but he does not have a strong back down or face up game enough that you can give him the ball, clear him out one on one and expect a bucket.

Also, Amare is the benchmark for athletic PFs in the leauge, even after basically drilling his knees apart.

Kingster, I know he can't play the three. That was my whole point, the fear of him being out of position.

I kind of see him as a way better Paul Milsap. I have no doubt he will be able to rebound like a monster, but how the points will come other than hustle put backs and fast break dunks I'm not sure.

 

[hammystyle]

The more I think about this draft, there is so little that separates the players in ability (maybe nothing), that this is one case where you can throw BPA out the window because there is no clear cut BPA. If that's the case, then you might as well draft for position, and that means forget about Griffin. We already have one, if not two, power forwards.

This is pretty much the opposite of what every single draft source is saying. The sentiment I've been seeing over and over again is that Blake Griffin is the best and no one else is close. He was a leading candidate for the #1 overall heading into the year, and by exceeding expectations and being the best player in college basketball he's put a strangle-hold on the "Best Player Available" tag.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

It would be sick too have both of them, our rebounding would be nuts and it would be nice to have a dunker on the team.

 

[Bricklayer]

It would be sick too have both of them, our rebounding would be nuts and it would be nice to have a dunker on the team.

Our defense would be absolutely terrible.

 

[AriesMar27]

its not like its that good now....

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

its not like its that good now....

And thats why were do bad! We continue to ignore our defense.

Thats why I like Thabeet more than most .. However im still taking Griffin with the first pick.

 

[Jechtsphere]

Griffin will be a nice back up to JT

 

[rainmaker]

The more I see and read about Griffin has convinced me that whoever drafts him has to play him 30+ min a night. The guy is too talented to come in as a backup. He needs just as much time as JT and Spencer are getting as of late. Maybe he can get those minutes in a 3 man rotation coming off the bench. But I don't think that is the best scenario for Griffin or the team. This guy will need time on the court that I don't think will mix well with both JT and Hawes.

 

[Kingster]

Griffin is much more athletic than that, but he does not have a strong back down or face up game enough that you can give him the ball, clear him out one on one and expect a bucket.

We agree. I've seen three games. You've seen 20+. Same conclusion. So let me ask you this: Why doesn't he have a good face up game? Why can't he turn on a center (like in the Utah and Texas game) and drive past those guys? My impression is that he doesn't have very good quickness. When many people say, "great athlete" they are talking about jumping ability. (Those dunks are impressive!) But what concerns me with Griffin is that I don't see above average NBA quicks. That's NOT athletic. If he doesn't have that quickness, he's not CAPABLE of developing a good face up game. And I certainly don't see him with a down-low game. Also, I continue to see him do NOTHING on the defensive end that impresses me, although I admit that that may be in part because he has to be so careful to not get into foul trouble for the good of his team.

 

[coolhandluke]

Nice article about Blake Griffin though I'm skeptical about him being 6'10".

From L.A. Times: Oklahoma's Blake Griffin is a one-man work force

 

[SGLSacMan]

I really have a hunch that this kid will do very well in the league. I have the same hunch about Harden. Although Harden is not that explosive, he is a very smart player. I see him (best case) panning out to be a player like Paul Pierce.

I don't think Griffin will be a traditional center, I see him developing into a hybrid of Dwight Howard (freakishly athletic for his size, won't be as dominant or as a good a shot blocker) and Shane Battier (hard worker, gutsy, self-sacrificing). I know that is an odd combination, but it's the best I can do right now.

Oh and as far as the topic is concerned. I think it would be great to have them both. I actually think Hawes is more expendable than JT. I think JT has way more upside. Hawes will plateau as a very low-teens scorer and his rebound average will hover around 5.5 or 6 per game. Not terrible, but I think JT has a chance to be a 16 and 10 type guy.

 

[Oprostaj]

We agree. I've seen three games. You've seen 20+. Same conclusion. So let me ask you this: Why doesn't he have a good face up game? Why can't he turn on a center (like in the Utah and Texas game) and drive past those guys? My impression is that he doesn't have very good quickness. When many people say, "great athlete" they are talking about jumping ability. (Those dunks are impressive!) But what concerns me with Griffin is that I don't see above average NBA quicks. That's NOT athletic. If he doesn't have that quickness, he's not CAPABLE of developing a good face up game. And I certainly don't see him with a down-low game. Also, I continue to see him do NOTHING on the defensive end that impresses me, although I admit that that may be in part because he has to be so careful to not get into foul trouble for the good of his team.

The problem is the fact that it is not his game. He does not trust his jumpshot enough to be the next in the Amare fold of PFs, and his game within the team is not built around him to dominate the ball 100% of the time. To tell you the whole truth, he might have that ability. He is however stuck in that body mold that he can't back down a center, but can't blow by a PF and that's what scares me in the NBA. There are very few TRUE centers in college, and I think Griffin would be fine going against them in the NBA in terms of quickness, but lets face it, that is not the position he would be facing. I love him as a player, but he scares me in the same way that Blair scares me - great rebounders, strong for their position, awesome demeanor and work ethic, but would be a fish out of water in the NBA; stuck without true positions, and their deficiencies(sp?) greatly exposed. I'm not saying Griffin kills the NBA, I think he is athletic and quicker than people give him credit, but he NEEDS to develop a face up game to keep people honest and give him space, otherwise he will have none to use that athletic ability.

 

[Oprostaj]

I really have a hunch that this kid will do very well in the league. I have the same hunch about Harden. Although Harden is not that explosive, he is a very smart player. I see him (best case) panning out to be a player like Paul Pierce.

I don't think Griffin will be a traditional center, I see him developing into a hybrid of Dwight Howard (freakishly athletic for his size, won't be as dominant or as a good a shot blocker) and Shane Battier (hard worker, gutsy, self-sacrificing). I know that is an odd combination, but it's the best I can do right now.

Oh and as far as the topic is concerned. I think it would be great to have them both. I actually think Hawes is more expendable than JT. I think JT has way more upside. Hawes will plateau as a very low-teens scorer and his rebound average will hover around 5.5 or 6 per game. Not terrible, but I think JT has a chance to be a 16 and 10 type guy.

You do NOT draft a #1 pick based on a hunch. You just don't. That's how GMs get fired and teams destroyed. Griffin's problem is that he does not have a true position. Dwight is 6'11" with a crazy leap, which allows him the unique combination of size to go vs other Cs, but gives him far superior strenght and speed that no other center can match. He is the Lebron James of centers - his only downfall is his tunnel vision and HORRIBLE FT shooting. If he could expand his game to 10-15' with a jumpshot, he would average 30+. Griffin is a good rebounder in college, and his athletic ability won't be as useful at the next level since he will be going up taller, stronger, smarter and faster players. He won't be putting up 20-20 games, and it hurts me to say that because I LOVE him as a player. The college game is so different because there are no true positions. You can have a 6'7" guy as your center and be succesfull or a 5'9" PG and be succesfull. At the next level, you're not playing C at that height, no matter how strong or how good of a rebounder you are. You must either be on a team that can hide your shortcomings on defense or offense when you are overmatched, and you damn well better be able to contribute in other areas

On the second part of your statement... Hawes has shown a good nose for the ball. Whether he pans out, he will average more than 5 boards a game. I don't think it's impossible he ends up averaging around 10 multiple seasons. He must bulk up and work on the conditioning first though.

 

[SGLSacMan]

Your post was very interesting Op. I agree with you completely that the college game is a vastly different game than the pro game. That is why I LOVE the pro game and can only watch college ball here and there. College games are dictated by emotion and one team having a player who is vastly superior to those around him. In Griffin's case he is able to dominate the slower, weaker competition in college. However, some players play better in the pros than they do in college. I think a lot of that has to do with the jump in competition and how they respond to it. Let's take Rose for example , his numbers as an NBA rookie are better than his Memphis stats. He went from 15 and 5 to about 17 and 6 and will only get better. Griffin will flourish in a "system." He will more than likely not be a dominant center, but he will make an impact. I like him with a true PG, a SG who can create his own shot and a couple of role players. He will be the type of player who catches lobs and scraps for rebounds. I really think he will be a fan favorite in this town.

Also, Hawes is far from even a halfway decent athlete, but as you said he has a "nose" for the ball. It's funny how his vast shortcomings are mitigated by a sense he has for the ball, whereas Griffin who has incredible physical gifts as well as a similar "nose" for the ball is criticized for being too small. Look, we all know lead-footed oafs will always have a place in the league due to their size regardless if they put up paltry numbers, but "tweeners" who are capable of the same production seem to get slighted. I think it's a matter of the overrated " we need size" argument which typically leads to signing a 7 foot "body" who does none of the things you signed him for. But you keeep because he has size and you need size.

Oh, by the way, I love this forum, you guys rock. This is a lot of fun.

 

[G_M]

Blake Griffin has a nastiness to his game that is rare. I think if you combine that trait with everything else he has to offer you take him and make it work.

 

[SacKings7]

I read somewhere, forget where, that a lot of scouts think Griffin is a better prospect this year than Rose was last year. Take it for what it's worth. I dunno if I'd go that far, but he is certainly a great (college) player

 

[rainmaker]

Oh and as far as the topic is concerned. I think it would be great to have them both. I actually think Hawes is more expendable than JT. I think JT has way more upside. Hawes will plateau as a very low-teens scorer and his rebound average will hover around 5.5 or 6 per game. Not terrible, but I think JT has a chance to be a 16 and 10 type guy.

I have to disagree with you about Hawes. Whether he is more expendable than JT is up for debate, and would depend on what we could get in return for either of them. But I don't think Hawes will plateau as a low teens scorer, or 5-6 rebs a game. Over the last month he has averaged just over 15/7/3 per game, and he is only 20 yrs old.

I think you are right about JT getting 16/10 at some point, but I think Hawes could be a 18/10/4 type player in a few years. Because of Hawes' skillset, the game comes easier to him than JT, and I see him improving every year for a while. For Hawes to plateau as a low teen scorer and 5-6 rebs a game type player, would mean we have already seen the best from him and he would actually have to get worse from this point forward. Not gonna happen.

 

[Kingster]

I read somewhere, forget where, that a lot of scouts think Griffin is a better prospect this year than Rose was last year. Take it for what it's worth. I dunno if I'd go that far, but he is certainly a great (college) player

Those scouts should be fired. Maybe they can go to work for AIG.

Rose >>>>>>>>>>>>Griffin

 

[bajaden]

You do NOT draft a #1 pick based on a hunch. You just don't. That's how GMs get fired and teams destroyed. Griffin's problem is that he does not have a true position. Dwight is 6'11" with a crazy leap, which allows him the unique combination of size to go vs other Cs, but gives him far superior strenght and speed that no other center can match. He is the Lebron James of centers - his only downfall is his tunnel vision and HORRIBLE FT shooting. If he could expand his game to 10-15' with a jumpshot, he would average 30+. Griffin is a good rebounder in college, and his athletic ability won't be as useful at the next level since he will be going up taller, stronger, smarter and faster players. He won't be putting up 20-20 games, and it hurts me to say that because I LOVE him as a player. The college game is so different because there are no true positions. You can have a 6'7" guy as your center and be succesfull or a 5'9" PG and be succesfull. At the next level, you're not playing C at that height, no matter how strong or how good of a rebounder you are. You must either be on a team that can hide your shortcomings on defense or offense when you are overmatched, and you damn well better be able to contribute in other areas

Number one. Mr. Dwight Howard is not 6'11". His measurements from the pre-draft camp had him at 6'9" without shoes. Number two. Griffin is not a center. He may play that postion in college, but then so did Thompson. I think everyone knows that he's a powerforward in the NBA. I've watched this guy play over 20 games between last year and this year. I honestly don't know what the hell you people are watching. Did he have some bad games along the way? Yes!!!! Did he have some great games along the way? Yes!!! The truth is, that he had a lot more great games than he had bad games. I can only assume that Kingster, who I agree with on a lot of things, had the misfortune to only see his bad games.

You have to judge a player on the body of his work, and not on a couple of games. He had 13 games where he averaged over 20 points and 20 rebounds this past season. To the best of my knowledge, only Tim Duncan accomplished that same feat. His obvious flaws have been pointed out. Its amazing that he's been able to accomplish all this, being as unskilled, inept, and athleticly challenged as many of you have pointed out. If you don't like Griffin, then tell me. Who is better? Please don't say Thabeet. I could spend all day expounding on his flaws. And I happen to think he can be a pretty good to maybe great player in the NBA. Just tell me who you would draft over Griffin. You tell me who it is, and then tell me you will take me out to the resturant of my choice if Griffin turns out to be the better player. I will repeat the favor if I'm wrong.

Last year it was Rose and Beasley. I really liked Rose, but I thought that Beasley was risky. I thought that he was a power forward in a small forwards body. I still think he can be a pretty good player, but I don't think he'll be a franchise player. I believe that Griffin will be a better player than Beasley. Just my opinion folks. Beasley may surprise me.

I'll tell you what I think. I think that if we were stuck with the 12th pick in the draft, we would be bitching and moaning about not having a chance at drafting Griffin. But because we actually have a chance to possibly pick number one, were now all armchair experts. NBA scouts be dammed. I mean, what the hell do they know? Just because they do it for a living and actually attend the games in person, so what?

One of my golden rules, because I've been burn't in the past, is that I try to never say what the limits of a player will be as fact. In other words, there's a difference between saying, I don't think this player will ever be able to grab more than 8 rebounds a game and, This player will never grab as many as 8 rebounds a game. To say what a 20 yr old player is going to be able to accomplish as fact, is just nonsense. How would you have liked it if everyone had decided what your limits were at age 20? And if your over 40 now, how accurate would it have been?

All I would ask, is that people try to be objective and logical. This is a subjective process, and therefore debatable. I try to keep my ego out of the process, and would ask all others to do the same. That is, afterall, what being objective is about. Its about the subject matter, and not about us being right or wrong. Its about being informative to those that don't have the time to see for themselves. And if I'm sounding at all contentious, I apologize, because I hate contentious people.

 

[Oprostaj]

Number one. Mr. Dwight Howard is not 6'11". His measurements from the pre-draft camp had him at 6'9" without shoes. Number two. Griffin is not a center. He may play that postion in college, but then so did Thompson. I think everyone knows that he's a powerforward in the NBA. I've watched this guy play over 20 games between last year and this year. I honestly don't know what the hell you people are watching. Did he have some bad games along the way? Yes!!!! Did he have some great games along the way? Yes!!! The truth is, that he had a lot more great games than he had bad games. I can only assume that Kingster, who I agree with on a lot of things, had the misfortune to only see his bad games.

You have to judge a player on the body of his work, and not on a couple of games. He had 13 games where he averaged over 20 points and 20 rebounds this past season. To the best of my knowledge, only Tim Duncan accomplished that same feat. His obvious flaws have been pointed out. Its amazing that he's been able to accomplish all this, being as unskilled, inept, and athleticly challenged as many of you have pointed out. If you don't like Griffin, then tell me. Who is better? Please don't say Thabeet. I could spend all day expounding on his flaws. And I happen to think he can be a pretty good to maybe great player in the NBA. Just tell me who you would draft over Griffin. You tell me who it is, and then tell me you will take me out to the resturant of my choice if Griffin turns out to be the better player. I will repeat the favor if I'm wrong.

Last year it was Rose and Beasley. I really liked Rose, but I thought that Beasley was risky. I thought that he was a power forward in a small forwards body. I still think he can be a pretty good player, but I don't think he'll be a franchise player. I believe that Griffin will be a better player than Beasley. Just my opinion folks. Beasley may surprise me.

I'll tell you what I think. I think that if we were stuck with the 12th pick in the draft, we would be bitching and moaning about not having a chance at drafting Griffin. But because we actually have a chance to possibly pick number one, were now all armchair experts. NBA scouts be dammed. I mean, what the hell do they know? Just because they do it for a living and actually attend the games in person, so what?

One of my golden rules, because I've been burn't in the past, is that I try to never say what the limits of a player will be as fact. In other words, there's a difference between saying, I don't think this player will ever be able to grab more than 8 rebounds a game and, This player will never grab as many as 8 rebounds a game. To say what a 20 yr old player is going to be able to accomplish as fact, is just nonsense. How would you have liked it if everyone had decided what your limits were at age 20? And if your over 40 now, how accurate would it have been?

All I would ask, is that people try to be objective and logical. This is a subjective process, and therefore debatable. I try to keep my ego out of the process, and would ask all others to do the same. That is, afterall, what being objective is about. Its about the subject matter, and not about us being right or wrong. Its about being informative to those that don't have the time to see for themselves. And if I'm sounding at all contentious, I apologize, because I hate contentious people.

#1 - Xanax?
#2 - Read ALL my posts before trying to prove an argument that I am not arguing against. My beef with Griffin (who I will say again, I LOVE AS A PLAYER) is his lack of size. Griffin has a unique combination of higher motor, higher drive, superior quickness, superiour strenght and good ball handling skills for someone his size. HOWEVER, what position do you see him playing in the NBA? PF correct? Now ask yourself, would you trust him to defend Boozer? Duncan? How about R Wallace? His skills suit him perfectly for the college game. Not the NBA game. A reason I personally don't like college is that it's organized chaos out there. Heart and motivation trumps Xs & Os, and a "hot" player can carry his team to the championship. There are exceptions to the rule. I watched Deron Williams torch Arizona to singlehandedly pull Illinois from 12 down with 4 minutes left (or something like that) with his smooth shooting stroke and terrific vision. That translated to the NBA because those skills are transferrable to the NBA game. Being hyper athletic and having a great motor will earn you a place, but unless he expands his game, he just does not have a true place in the NBA. I hope I'm wrong. I really do like him, his game and his demeanor. But you are not getting anywhere with a undersized PF in this leauge.

Please don't compare stats, I HATE when people compare stats. They prove nothing. I don't need to know how many 20-20 games he had to know he's a damn good college ballplayer, I've seen him outrebound bigger guys, faster guys, stronger guys. The competition changes on the next level, and he will not be able to do the same things he is currently doing. Hell, I've seen Blair get rebounds with 3 defenders hanging on him, and I still don't want him on my team, because he is 6'7 3/4". He's a ultra rebounding SF!!!!!! Blake beat out Drew Gooden's stat for most rebounds in a single season, and yes, he did it even though he missed a couple of games. Does that mean he will be slightly better than Gooden at the next level? Hell, Gooden could at least shoot the damn ball on the perimiter. What does that say? NOTHING. They're completely different players. He has been consistent, and seems to be a great person, which is what every team could use. I just don't see him fitting in the NBA, position wise.

Dwight's measurements were pre-draft. He has grown in the past couple of years, for God's sake, he was a teenager when drafted. His wingspan is monstreous, and his vertical is insane. I don't need stats to prove that, I SEE it on a daily basis.

I'll take you up on your restaurant offer. I'm broke as a joke anyway. I would draft Rubio. We have Hawes and JT, and I'm not convinced that what Griffin brings to the table justifies us getting rid of JT and basically stalling the development of the team. If we're judging on the body of work, draft Rubio, he's been a pro since 15. Blake was playing pick up ball at the gym at that time. Again... not attacking the guy. I love him, and I won't cry if the Kings pick him. I just don't see the "superstar" potential in him.

*By the way.. I live in Chicago, and watch Rose play every game. He has great size and quickness as well as athletic ability for his position. He will be the most physically intimidating PG in the NBA in about 2 seasons. He is not afraid to take the big shot, to sacrifice his body, and he has terrific vision. Having said that, I would take Deron Williams over him at the drop of a hat. Rose is timid, quiet, not a floor general. He looks to others before trusting himself, and his shot is not dependable. It will get better over time, he has been working on it, but this is not a guy that will take a team on his back and pull them through a tough time. Vinny is an idiotic coach, but sitting him in the 4th quarter of close games is a smart move. If he improves his shot, he will be a monster. He needs to develop a, I hate to say it, a Kobe mentality. Great players must be able to take over a game when they HAVE TO, not when they want to.

 

[beb0p]

#1 - Xanax?
My beef with Griffin (who I will say again, I LOVE AS A PLAYER) is his lack of size. Griffin has a unique combination of higher motor, higher drive, superior quickness, superiour strenght and good ball handling skills for someone his size. HOWEVER, what position do you see him playing in the NBA? PF correct? Now ask yourself, would you trust him to defend Boozer? Duncan? How about R Wallace?

I think bajaden is referring to your statement that Griffin is undersized.
This is not a snappy question but how big do you think Giffin is? I'm of the opinion that 1) we won't know for sure until the pre-draft measurement and 2) he doesn't look undersized on tv (but I guess you never know).

If he measures out to be no taller than Kenny Thomas then I'd agree with you that he doesn't have a position in the NBA. But my uneducated guess right now is that Griffin is at least as tall as Boozer and David Lee, a bit under 6'-8" in socks, which would make him roughly on eye level with Brand, Amare, Al Jefferson, and Kevin Love, to name a few.

As for your questions, assuming Griffin is about the same height as Boozer, yes I think Griffin can guard Boozer. He has the strength to push Boozer out of his favorite spots and he has the speed to beat Boozer to the spots. Rasheed may give him trouble because Sheed is longer, but with Rasheed it really comes down to whether his head is in the game. I dont think Griffin is any more vulnerable than most PFs. Duncan is really a center hiding as a PF, I anticipate Giffin will be guarding Bonner/Kurt Thomas instead of Duncan. Not saying Griffin is a defensive player, he is not. But I anticipate at least above average defense once he get used to his new environment.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

Just saw JT at Raleys by Arco, what a good dude. very friendly.

 

[Spike]

Just saw JT at Raleys by Arco, what a good dude. very friendly.

What were his thoughts on the poll?

 

[KF8]

I don't get it.. are we making something out of nothing? Why is everyone assuming that Griffin is under size? No one really knows how tall he is yet, until the measurements are available. A lot of websites list him as 6'10", so how much shorter can he be compared to other power forwards in the NBA? There are plenty of successful under size power forwards in the NBA. Even if he is under size I don't think it will be by much and his athleticism and strength will more than make up for it. I'm also shocked on how many people wouldn't draft Griffin with the number 1 pick in the poll. I mean who else would you draft over Griffin? I could only see Rubio who is a risky pick for number 1 challenging Griffin over the number 1 spot, but is he even declaring and if not who else would you take over Griffin?!

 

[sidney]

1)Griffin
2)Rubio
3)Thabeet

is likely. We are very fortunate the have a shot at any of those guys. They may not be all-stars but each will make a major impact on their teams for years to come.

 

[bajaden]

#1 - Xanax?
#2 - Read ALL my posts before trying to prove an argument that I am not arguing against. My beef with Griffin (who I will say again, I LOVE AS A PLAYER) is his lack of size. Griffin has a unique combination of higher motor, higher drive, superior quickness, superiour strenght and good ball handling skills for someone his size. HOWEVER, what position do you see him playing in the NBA? PF correct? Now ask yourself, would you trust him to defend Boozer? Duncan? How about R Wallace? His skills suit him perfectly for the college game. Not the NBA game. A reason I personally don't like college is that it's organized chaos out there. Heart and motivation trumps Xs & Os, and a "hot" player can carry his team to the championship. There are exceptions to the rule. I watched Deron Williams torch Arizona to singlehandedly pull Illinois from 12 down with 4 minutes left (or something like that) with his smooth shooting stroke and terrific vision. That translated to the NBA because those skills are transferrable to the NBA game. Being hyper athletic and having a great motor will earn you a place, but unless he expands his game, he just does not have a true place in the NBA. I hope I'm wrong. I really do like him, his game and his demeanor. But you are not getting anywhere with a undersized PF in this leauge.

Please don't compare stats, I HATE when people compare stats. They prove nothing. I don't need to know how many 20-20 games he had to know he's a damn good college ballplayer, I've seen him outrebound bigger guys, faster guys, stronger guys. The competition changes on the next level, and he will not be able to do the same things he is currently doing. Hell, I've seen Blair get rebounds with 3 defenders hanging on him, and I still don't want him on my team, because he is 6'7 3/4". He's a ultra rebounding SF!!!!!! Blake beat out Drew Gooden's stat for most rebounds in a single season, and yes, he did it even though he missed a couple of games. Does that mean he will be slightly better than Gooden at the next level? Hell, Gooden could at least shoot the damn ball on the perimiter. What does that say? NOTHING. They're completely different players. He has been consistent, and seems to be a great person, which is what every team could use. I just don't see him fitting in the NBA, position wise.

Dwight's measurements were pre-draft. He has grown in the past couple of years, for God's sake, he was a teenager when drafted. His wingspan is monstreous, and his vertical is insane. I don't need stats to prove that, I SEE it on a daily basis.

I'll take you up on your restaurant offer. I'm broke as a joke anyway. I would draft Rubio. We have Hawes and JT, and I'm not convinced that what Griffin brings to the table justifies us getting rid of JT and basically stalling the development of the team. If we're judging on the body of work, draft Rubio, he's been a pro since 15. Blake was playing pick up ball at the gym at that time. Again... not attacking the guy. I love him, and I won't cry if the Kings pick him. I just don't see the "superstar" potential in him.

*By the way.. I live in Chicago, and watch Rose play every game. He has great size and quickness as well as athletic ability for his position. He will be the most physically intimidating PG in the NBA in about 2 seasons. He is not afraid to take the big shot, to sacrifice his body, and he has terrific vision. Having said that, I would take Deron Williams over him at the drop of a hat. Rose is timid, quiet, not a floor general. He looks to others before trusting himself, and his shot is not dependable. It will get better over time, he has been working on it, but this is not a guy that will take a team on his back and pull them through a tough time. Vinny is an idiotic coach, but sitting him in the 4th quarter of close games is a smart move. If he improves his shot, he will be a monster. He needs to develop a, I hate to say it, a Kobe mentality. Great players must be able to take over a game when they HAVE TO, not when they want to.

First of all, no, I have not read all your posts, and to be honest, my post wasn't directed purely at you, but was mostly generic in intent. Whereas, you don't seem to have the finances to take me to the resturant of my choice, how about the McDonalds of my choice. My daughter manages one in Rocklin and I get a discount. I can't pay for your airfair though.

I'll start with Rose. At this moment in time, I would take Williams over Rose too. One's a proven product. Ask me again in three years and I might change my mind. I do blieve that Rose will be a far better player than Vinny will ever be as a coach.

I'm tired of debating Griffin. He is what he is, and we can just differ on what his potential is. I just want to say that people are making way too much out of this defense thing. As I've said before, the great defensive players that come out of college ready to play are rare. Most colleges play zone defense and seldom do they ask their star player to play defense at the level he'll be asked to play at the next level. Griffin is a very good athlete and there's no reason he can't learn to play defense in the NBA. All he needs is a good teacher and the commitment. Malone wasn't known as a defensive juggernaut coming out of college. We all love CWebb, but he was just a decent to good defender. Webb, despite being a good athlete, just didn't have good lateral movement. Peja, who wasn't near the athlete Webb was, had excellent lateral movement. You just have to play with what God gave you.

As far as stats go. I agree that they can misleading. What I don't understand is how someone can praise a player like Thabeet, ( not you ) ignore all his deficiences and only point out his shotblocking and sometime rebounding. I personally think that shotblocking in and of itself is overrated. I do think that the intimidation that can come from a very good shotblocker is more important than the actual blocked shot, which by the records I've been keeping for the last three weeks shows me that over 60% of the time the team that gets it shot blocked gets the ball right back. I do believe that Thabeet could have that intimidating factor at the next level. But he's not a sure thing by any means.

I hate to keep going back to Malone, but when he came out of college, he had no jump shot or outside game at all. He was a terrible free throw shooter. He had a limited post game. He was a good athlete who was very strong and who could run the floor like no other Power Forward before him. He was a good rebounder in college, but not a great one. He corrected all of the above. Is Griffin the next Malone? I have no idea. But I do know, that I would hate to pass on him and find out later that he is the next coming. We will need a Stockton at some point though.

 

[Oprostaj]

I think bajaden is referring to your statement that Griffin is undersized.
This is not a snappy question but how big do you think Giffin is? I'm of the opinion that 1) we won't know for sure until the pre-draft measurement and 2) he doesn't look undersized on tv (but I guess you never know).

If he measures out to be no taller than Kenny Thomas then I'd agree with you that he doesn't have a position in the NBA. But my uneducated guess right now is that Griffin is at least as tall as Boozer and David Lee, a bit under 6'-8" in socks, which would make him roughly on eye level with Brand, Amare, Al Jefferson, and Kevin Love, to name a few.

As for your questions, assuming Griffin is about the same height as Boozer, yes I think Griffin can guard Boozer. He has the strength to push Boozer out of his favorite spots and he has the speed to beat Boozer to the spots. Rasheed may give him trouble because Sheed is longer, but with Rasheed it really comes down to whether his head is in the game. I dont think Griffin is any more vulnerable than most PFs. Duncan is really a center hiding as a PF, I anticipate Giffin will be guarding Bonner/Kurt Thomas instead of Duncan. Not saying Griffin is a defensive player, he is not. But I anticipate at least above average defense once he get used to his new environment.

No, I understood what he/she was trying to say, I was trying to poke fun at the beginning, sorry if it came off as antagonistic. Griffin just looks undersized to me, just by eyeballing him. I could be wrong. Measurements don't tell the whole story. He also does not look particularly confident on D. He is a monster on the boards yes, but help defense, assignments and focus on defense is a problem, particularly when at the next level, his athleticism will not be as much of a weapon as it is on the college level. I'm just afraid, that's it. I don't doubt his abilities, just how they will translate to the next level.

By the way, Love is stronger than Griffin. Griffin is NOT a low post player, and if he plays PF, that will be a problem. He has no low post moves, is not a particularly great passer nor shooter. How he will get his points in half court sets is a question. If he had to fight Love for a rebound, he would lose. If you've ever seen Love, you would notice that he is a damn tree. His lower body is just a solid mass. There is a reason a non athletic slightly undersized PF is grabbing rebounds like Love is - he is smart, knows how to position himself, boxes out, and is damn strong.

Again, I really like Griffin, I won't hate if the Kings pick him, I just don't think he has the size/skill set combination to play PF at the next level. He's the tweener of PFs to me, but I really am no college ball expert by any means, and I hope I'm wrong, trully.

 

[Oprostaj]

First of all, no, I have not read all your posts, and to be honest, my post wasn't directed purely at you, but was mostly generic in intent. Whereas, you don't seem to have the finances to take me to the resturant of my choice, how about the McDonalds of my choice. My daughter manages one in Rocklin and I get a discount. I can't pay for your airfair though.

I'll start with Rose. At this moment in time, I would take Williams over Rose too. One's a proven product. Ask me again in three years and I might change my mind. I do blieve that Rose will be a far better player than Vinny will ever be as a coach.

I'm tired of debating Griffin. He is what he is, and we can just differ on what his potential is. I just want to say that people are making way too much out of this defense thing. As I've said before, the great defensive players that come out of college ready to play are rare. Most colleges play zone defense and seldom do they ask their star player to play defense at the level he'll be asked to play at the next level. Griffin is a very good athlete and there's no reason he can't learn to play defense in the NBA. All he needs is a good teacher and the commitment. Malone wasn't known as a defensive juggernaut coming out of college. We all love CWebb, but he was just a decent to good defender. Webb, despite being a good athlete, just didn't have good lateral movement. Peja, who wasn't near the athlete Webb was, had excellent lateral movement. You just have to play with what God gave you.

As far as stats go. I agree that they can misleading. What I don't understand is how someone can praise a player like Thabeet, ( not you ) ignore all his deficiences and only point out his shotblocking and sometime rebounding. I personally think that shotblocking in and of itself is overrated. I do think that the intimidation that can come from a very good shotblocker is more important than the actual blocked shot, which by the records I've been keeping for the last three weeks shows me that over 60% of the time the team that gets it shot blocked gets the ball right back. I do believe that Thabeet could have that intimidating factor at the next level. But he's not a sure thing by any means.

I hate to keep going back to Malone, but when he came out of college, he had no jump shot or outside game at all. He was a terrible free throw shooter. He had a limited post game. He was a good athlete who was very strong and who could run the floor like no other Power Forward before him. He was a good rebounder in college, but not a great one. He corrected all of the above. Is Griffin the next Malone? I have no idea. But I do know, that I would hate to pass on him and find out later that he is the next coming. We will need a Stockton at some point though.

My mistake then, it seems we pretty much are saying the same points. No McDonalds, how bout Red Lobster? I make an emphasis on D because I doubt he will be putting up 20-20 on the next level, and he needs to be able to contribute in other ways. If he can pick up the D quickly enough to be a factor, great. But I'd hate to waste a first round draft pick and have him rot on the bench due to lack of defensive awareness. Miami is doing this to Beasely, and it is a big reason why Miami is not going to be able to do anything come playoffs because Wade is going to be done. They don't have a 2nd scorer because Beasely gives up as much on D as he gives them on O. As a side note, look for DWade's career to last about 3 more years at this level.

I wouldn't touch Thabeet.

I figure Rubio is closer to Stockton that Griffin will ever be to Malone, but again, I'm not an expert on history by any means (23 YO) and we already have our frontcourt of the future that has shown promise. Sorry if I was not able to put what I truly wanted to say about Griffin, and I hope I'm wrong, because I think the NBA needs more guys like him.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

What were his thoughts on the poll?

I wanted Kings to draft JT, he is and will be a better defender than Blake. he has PF and C height.

I do also like Blake. hes a freak, gets thriple teamed and still goes for 20/20. and can jump with the best of them.


I want both.

 

[bajaden]

My mistake then, it seems we pretty much are saying the same points. No McDonalds, how bout Red Lobster? I make an emphasis on D because I doubt he will be putting up 20-20 on the next level, and he needs to be able to contribute in other ways. If he can pick up the D quickly enough to be a factor, great. But I'd hate to waste a first round draft pick and have him rot on the bench due to lack of defensive awareness. Miami is doing this to Beasely, and it is a big reason why Miami is not going to be able to do anything come playoffs because Wade is going to be done. They don't have a 2nd scorer because Beasely gives up as much on D as he gives them on O. As a side note, look for DWade's career to last about 3 more years at this level.

I wouldn't touch Thabeet.

I figure Rubio is closer to Stockton that Griffin will ever be to Malone, but again, I'm not an expert on history by any means (23 YO) and we already have our frontcourt of the future that has shown promise. Sorry if I was not able to put what I truly wanted to say about Griffin, and I hope I'm wrong, because I think the NBA needs more guys like him.

Red Lobster it is then. I also hope your wrong about Griffin. Especially if we end up drafting him. Sorry about the age difference. 67 here. At least I'm not talking about Bob Pettit, who I actually knew.

I had a little heads up on Beasley when Kansas St. played Rider. Two things were obvious in that game. Number one was that Thompson was a lot bigger than Beasley, so one of them had to be lying about his height. and Number two, Beasley had a very hard time grabbing rebounds and scoring on Thompson. To me, that didn't bode well for his future in the NBA as a power forward. I still think he has a future as a small forward, but I'm not sure he has the commitment. Everything came easy for him up until now. We'll see....