and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

[Sptsjunkie]

Hawes & JT have been playing bb since grade school, and Hawes family had NBA experience. Thabeet played 1yr before college and now is one of the top centers in college. I think it is rediculous to think that it would take him 5 or 6 yrs to develop. With his natural abilities and NBA coaching he'll be right on pace with JT & Hawes. And, defensively he'll probably be ahead of JT. Certainly, if Bynum can develop in 3 yrs straight out of HS, there's no reason to believe Thabeet would do any differently after 3yrs of college.

Maybe, this is part of why I have not give up on Thabeet. If he had played ball since he was a kid and his fundamentals were still this bad at 23, than either he has a very low IQ or just doesn't like basketball that much.

However, Bynum is not comparable to Thabeet at all. He has basketball experience already, is an extremely hard worker by all accounts, has a great mix of size, strength and athleticism, soft hands, great touch, great coordination. Assuming Bynum's injury woes don't continue - which they may as Lakers' trainer Gary Vitti said last year that Bynum's body structure leaves him extra vulnerable to knee injuries - he's in a different league than Thabeet.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Louisville was the #7 team in the country at the time, with several big man prospects and an imposing home floor. Hardly marginal competition.

Good point. He also plays Pitt 2 more times and hopefully gets to play a few good team's in the tourney. I am not anti-Thabeet, but am very cautious with players like him. I'll certainly wait till the end of the college season before making any final assessment. With players this young, a number of players tend to emerge over the course of the year.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Thabeet right now is worth 10pts to his college team just on defense alone. He is the anchor.

Seriously, I think some of you are living in the past on this player. You watch him play today, and the shotblocking is the least of his defensive impact. People are terrified of him, and they should be. Like all great shotblockers its the 2 shots he intimidates for every shot he actually blocks that make the real difference. He just lurks back there, and guys change their mind before they ever get around to shooting. Half the time his own man won't even look at the hoop. I do see the times when he does not challenge, but it seems pretty clear to me that that is a college kid trying not to pick up cheap fouls, and tyring to keep his own man from getting an easy dunk -- that is the sophistication I mentioned earlier. This is not a guy who blocks 4 shots a game by chasing every shot and hopping around everywhere -- he blocks 4 shots a game EASILY, picking his spots, letting things go that he does not think he can reach. If he wanted to chase everything he'd probably average 6 at least, but be fouling out every night. As it is he plays within himself. He also is 7'3" yet quick enough to show up top on screens and recover back down to protect the paint.

Nor is he "raw" or all this bunk either. His offensive game is limited, but it now has structure. Simple but sufficient -- get position, lock the defender, wait for a lob for a dunk. Its not much different than what a Chandler brings. Not only that, he shows some potential for a little face up jumper. The form on his FTs is good, and he had a good looking stroke when he ventured out there against Louisville. And he simply does not look lost, confused, or awkward out there like the truly raw guys we ahve seen over the years. On the contrary he increasingly looks like he knows exactly what he wants to do out there and he's actually causing teams to have to collapse their defense to prevent it. He will never be a primary, or likely even secondary scorer, but who cares? That's not the point with a player like that. He already has an idea of how to play a role on offense that teams have to account for, and that is seriously enough. Put him wiht Chris Paul and I am not sure the results on offense would be much worse than they are for Chandler.

Throw in that he's bulked up and started to get very physical setting picks and on the glass and you have a player who has come a tremendously long way in 3 years. Two year old scouting reports have nothing to do with the player who has been taking the court as this season has progressed.

Thank you for the scouting report. It sounds good. I am very intrigued to see him among other players throughout the rest of the season.

 

[Kingster]

I am not on the Thabeet bandwagon either. Been watching the Kid for 3 years now and he is still very raw. His defense is kind of hit and miss. Sometimes his shot blocking makes him look like a good defender, but the next play someone drives right around him and scores. He isn't shouldn't be listed as a "monster defender" or whatever they have him because blocking a few shots does not mean he can defend someon 1 on 1. In the NBA I do not want to have to play a zone because of Thabeets inability to guard someone.

I am also worried about his crappy play against NBA prospects.

Yep. Monroe killed him.

 

[vikinginferno]

Yeah, why haven't you guys been talking too much about Monroe? He is only a freshman and has some of the greatest potential in the draft and I don't think he would be that risky. I think he would fit in a lot better than others believe in the Kings plan. He can play the 4 or the 5 and he is 6'11". He seems like a player GP would draft also. With his body I think he could turn into a great defensive player and offensive player. For me he is the best player in the draft after Blake Griffin if Rubio doesn't declare.

 

[nbrans]

Monroe does seem like a Petrie player. Unfortunately he's not terribly athletic and is allergic to rebounds. He's almost identical to Spencer Hawes.

 

[Kingzrool]

A defensive big is what a contending team needs. A defensive big is the most promising player in the draft. Does this need to be further spelled out?

For the record, I am on the Thabeet bandwagon. Then they can play The GoGo's "We Got the Beat" at Arco.

 

[Vlade4GM]

A defensive big is what a contending team needs. A defensive big is the most promising player in the draft. Does this need to be further spelled out?

For the record, I am on the Thabeet bandwagon. Then they can play The GoGo's "We Got the Beat" at Arco.

LOL, I get that song stuck in my ahead a lot when I'm thinking of his name too. I think it's pronounced Tah-beet though.

 

[hrdboild]

I really want to like Thabeet. A 7'3" shot blocking terror sounds like just what the doctor ordered. But every time I've seen him I've come away with the impression that he will not be a dominant defender in the NBA, but rather a shot-blocking specialist like Theo Ratliff with about as much offense. (That's Ratliff in his prime, mind you -- borderline All-Star in a weak conference -- not who he is now). He got dominated by Hibbert last year, he got dominated by Monroe this year. He's simply not a post defender. He can help keep guards out of the lane, but can he anchor a defense the way a Shaq or Duncan or KG can? I'm not so sure. That kind of player can be useful, no doubt, but I'm not sure I want to pencil in Theo Ratliff as my starting center and start dreaming of championships.

Granted 6'10" is a long way from 7'3", and comparing prospects to NBA players is often misleading. Having the tallest player on the court suit up for our side would certainly be a refreshing change. Like I said, I want to like Thabeet. But at this point, I'm just not comfortable with that level of risk in a top 5 pick. "The Gambit" as you say, seems like an unwise one to me. If I'm picking in the top 5, I want somebody who is going to wow me. I want somebody I believe in. So far, Thabeet doesn't qualify for me.

 

[Sarunas]

Maybe, this is part of why I have not give up on Thabeet. If he had played ball since he was a kid and his fundamentals were still this bad at 23, than either he has a very low IQ or just doesn't like basketball that much.

However, Bynum is not comparable to Thabeet at all. He has basketball experience already, is an extremely hard worker by all accounts, has a great mix of size, strength and athleticism, soft hands, great touch, great coordination. Assuming Bynum's injury woes don't continue - which they may as Lakers' trainer Gary Vitti said last year that Bynum's body structure leaves him extra vulnerable to knee injuries - he's in a different league than Thabeet.

Obviously he is not in the same caliber as andrew bynum right now, because bynum has been in the nba for 4 years now, and thabeet has 3 years of college experience. I think Thabeet is much farther along right now than Bynum was when he first came into the league. I think Thabeet is capable of making some vast improvements like Bynum; its no guarantee, but he has the capability to do so.

If we dont take Thabeet, what other big guys besides griffin are there that you think have a higher cieling than thabeet? He has shown flashes of brilliance (dominating a louisville team with guys like samardo samuels who have dominated other frontlines), then also has been dominated by other top bigs, but most of that was in past seasons.

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to say thabeet is going to be the next mutombo, but due to the circumstances of a VERY weak draft class, I think he has to be strongly considered with some of the best potential to help our team long term, which is the main reason I'm on his bandwagon. If the guys like rose, beasley, mayo, gordon, etc. all stuck around in college another year and came out in this draft, thabeet wouldnt even be in my top 5, but that kind of talent isnt available, so i think we need to keep our minds open, and have trust in GP

(Wasnt trying to flame you Sptsjunkie)

 

[KingsCitizen]

Well I remember some jokes in this forum regarding having a tree in the middle of the Kings defense rather than having Miller or Moore. Well Thabeet is better than a tree. His long, agile and a presence you can really see. For all those critics saying his not a good man-to-man defender, I don't see the need to equip him with that skill as a necessity before drafting him. Yao is not a good man to man defender when he was drafter #1, even till now coz he is slow but his length is surely intimidating. Though Thabeet gives up 2 inches to Yao his way more mobile than Yao any day of the year. And surely has more hops. His length and hops combines for a block waiting to happen.

Man to man defensive skill is necessary if your usually matching opponents with the same height as you. But if your the second tallest player in the league and can run in almost the same pace as the common big, I think be spared to learn that along the way.

 

[asakkings]

only thing i would scare of with thabeet are his knees. People as big as him tend to get injured often, does anyone know of his durability. Maybe since he hasnt played competetively much the injuries havent caught up to him yet.

 

[beb0p]

Obviously he is not in the same caliber as andrew bynum right now, because bynum has been in the nba for 4 years now, and thabeet has 3 years of college experience. I think Thabeet is much farther along right now than Bynum was when he first came into the league.

No kidding. Considering that Bynum is actually eight months *younger* than Thabeet. That's right, Thabeet is older than Bynum, you can look it up.

Look, I like Thabeet but let's be fair here. You can't compare Andrew Bynum (and by you, I mean the posters who brought it up first) to Thabeet. There's no comparison. Bynum is already more advanced at 19 than Thabeet is at 22. They're not even at the same planet. Thabeet will never ever be as good as Bynum offensively. Thabeet will never ever be as well rounded as Bynum. Now if the argument is that he brings the same defensive intimitation that Bynum brings. Fine. Let's go with someone more appropriate, maybe a Mutombo or someone like that. Or perhaps an Andrew Bynum with much less offense is a fair projection.

The point is, let's compare apple to apple. Comparing a raw 22-yr-old to a raw 17-yr-old and conclude that because the 17-yr-old made a lot of progress then the 22-yr-old must follow the same pattern is greatly out of scope.

 

[Gary]

Um..... Sometimes shotblocking anchors your ENTIRE defense and you completely take away team's inside game, which is what Thabeet recently did to Notre Dame, Louisville, and Michigan. They were completely taken off their game and people just stopped challenging him entirely.

You guys are seriously underselling Thabeet. I understand if people have concerns about him being raw offensively -- he definitely is, and that could be a problem in the NBA. But he's been nothing short of spectacular lately. He's a true game-changer defensively whether he's getting blocks, hedging screens, or getting rebounds. He is a presence.

Trying to make the case that he's not a good defender is just ludicrous at this point.

He does well in a zone, but not well man on man. In the NBA he will be exposed. Much much quicker players than he is playing against now, and much much bigger players to push him around. I am not saying he won't go into the NBA and block 2-3 shots a game. But can he guard stronger players consistently? NOPE.. Can he guard quick players consistently? NOPE. You see what happens when a smaller (NBA prospect caliber) player goes against him.. You see what happens when a big strong player goes against him..

But Thabeet does real well against players who have no chance of making the NBA. I still think Thabeet has a chance at becoming something in the NBA. I just don't want to take the risk if we have the #1 pick. I would rather take Blake Griffin (even if he is 6'9 in shoes). Or I would rather take Ricky Rubio who is the most skilled PG in for his age in the world. He was going against pros at 17 years old and looking much much better than any high school player in the US could.

Thabeet has "potential bust" written all over him. Basically throwing a boy with 4 years of basketball experience that happens to be 7'3 in with pros who have played all their life. He will have to be something REAL special to succeed and he has not shown me that he can be that player on a consistent basis. I would rather another team take a chance on him than the Kings.

In response to Brick;
In the past Thabeet with just another 7' guy that had never played basketball.. I wouldn't say people are terrified of him. He's basically a goalie right now. For playing down low he's not rebounding the ball as much as he should be. When I was saying he was "raw" I meant just that... He's played ball for almost 4 years. That means he is extremely raw. He has nothing offensively except catching and dunking although he has this little half hook he is learning which he should be using being how tall he is. I would LOVE for him to become a Tyson Chandler type player though if the Kings drafted him. Just hope he wouldn't take as long to develop or else another team would be benefiting. Right now he's a 7'3 guy that plays well in a zone defense. I think in the NBA he's going to be a specialist type player off the bench for an NBA team at best. Reason being is that the NBA does not play zone half as much as college, and Thabeet would be in foul trouble in no time biting on all the shots he does at the college level. His "almost 4 years" of basketball will really show against the big boys I am afraid.

But if I am wrong I will be first to admit it.

 

[Bricklayer]

He does well in a zone, but not well man on man. In the NBA he will be exposed. Much much quicker players than he is playing against now, and much much bigger players to push him around. I am not saying he won't go into the NBA and block 2-3 shots a game. But can he guard stronger players consistently? NOPE.. Can he guard quick players consistently? NOPE. You see what happens when a smaller (NBA prospect caliber) player goes against him.. You see what happens when a big strong player goes against him..

But Thabeet does real well against players who have no chance of making the NBA. I still think Thabeet has a chance at becoming something in the NBA. I just don't want to take the risk if we have the #1 pick. I would rather take Blake Griffin (even if he is 6'9 in shoes). Or I would rather take Ricky Rubio who is the most skilled PG in for his age in the world. He was going against pros at 17 years old and looking much much better than any high school player in the US could.

Thabeet has "potential bust" written all over him. Basically throwing a boy with 4 years of basketball experience that happens to be 7'3 in with pros who have played all their life. He will have to be something REAL special to succeed and he has not shown me that he can be that player on a consistent basis. I would rather another team take a chance on him than the Kings.

In response to Brick;
In the past Thabeet with just another 7' guy that had never played basketball.. I wouldn't say people are terrified of him. He's basically a goalie right now. For playing down low he's not rebounding the ball as much as he should be. When I was saying he was "raw" I meant just that... He's played ball for almost 4 years. That means he is extremely raw. He has nothing offensively except catching and dunking although he has this little half hook he is learning which he should be using being how tall he is. I would LOVE for him to become a Tyson Chandler type player though if the Kings drafted him. Just hope he wouldn't take as long to develop or else another team would be benefiting. Right now he's a 7'3 guy that plays well in a zone defense. I think in the NBA he's going to be a specialist type player off the bench for an NBA team at best. Reason being is that the NBA does not play zone half as much as college, and Thabeet would be in foul trouble in no time biting on all the shots he does at the college level. His "almost 4 years" of basketball will really show against the big boys I am afraid.

But if I am wrong I will be first to admit it.

The more you post on him the more I wonder if you have seen him play this season, not 2 years ago, not even last year when he was starting to come around. This year. He's one of the Top 20 rebounders in college basketball this season, and one of the few on that list with any chance of duplicating that in the NBA (of the 15 guys ahead of him, I count basically 3 who have the size and come from major conferences): Blake Griffin, Luke Harangody (who may be too short and unathletic in the NBA) and Jordan Hill. Maybe Ahmad Nivins from St. Joseph's, but he's a marginal NBA prospect. All the rest are 6'7" 210lb typs guys playing for places like Coastal Carolina. He's also the #3 shotblocker in the country, and the two guys ahead of him are basically similar to Justin Williams in size.

Who are these quick undersized offensive minded centers that he is going to have to deal with in the Western Conference? Greg Oden? Andrew Bynum? Chris Kaman? Shaq? Yao? Dampier? Okur? Biedrins? Chandler? Jefferson? Marc Gasol? Nene? Duncan (as you would obviously put your PF on Bonner)? Collison? Big guys in college always have to face WORSE matchups than they do in the NBA, because most of the guys they match up with in college are pro PFs, sometimes even SFs. That's not why you get a big guy anyway -- any big guy is going to struggle with Al Harrington. Nobody cares. Al Harrington doesn't win you games. The big guys do. And its not about man defense for the most part. Its about the defense they play on everybody ELSE. All the guards and SFs who decide that hey, driving the lane against the Kings isn't nearly as much fun as it used to be.

Almost anybody can be a bust in the NBA -- I remember in the early 90s when we picked up Dennis Hopson at the end of his short career after he was a bust as a high draft pick. I actually kind of liked his game, but he was still an NBA high lottery bust after averaging 29.0pts 8.2rebs 3.6ast and 2.2stl a game on 51.8% shooting as a senior at Ohio State -- a major school in a major conference. There are no, or very few, sure things. But I would say that Thabeet has as little full on bust potential as any player at the top of this draft if you are drafting him for what he is rather than drafting him as some sort of fantasy Hakeem Olajuwon in training. He is always going to be huge, always going to have great shotblocking instincts, and at the very least he is going to be able to do those things in the NBA -- he has a calling card. Will he be able to do more? Who knows. But compared to the question of whether Blake is big enough or clever enoguh if he's not, Rubio athletic enough, Jennings anything more than a good high school player who ran away to Europe, Teague unselfish enough to play the point etc., you know that Thabeet is going to be able to do the things you primarily drafted him for. He may only do them as a Pryzbilla off the bench, or he may do them as a Ditkembe type starter, but he's got a calling card that translates. No questions of size or athleticism (I again defy anybody to name a 7'3"+ 260lb player who has ever moved like this) need apply. And while like any rookie he will have things to learn, he has supreme physical tools to play with and an excuse for the things he does not already know (relatively new to the game).

I will not annoint him as savior, as franchise player, or anything else over the top like that. But I will stand behind this: if we drafted him he would have a tangible impact on our defense next year. And when you are the worst defensive team in the league, and we are, that is nothig to sneeze at. It has to start somewhere unless we want to be laughingstocks forever, you need a defensive anchor, multiple defensive specialists. Well, there is one of those pieces sitting right there at the top of the draft.

 

[nbrans]

He does well in a zone, but not well man on man. In the NBA he will be exposed. Much much quicker players than he is playing against now, and much much bigger players to push him around. I am not saying he won't go into the NBA and block 2-3 shots a game. But can he guard stronger players consistently? NOPE.. Can he guard quick players consistently? NOPE. You see what happens when a smaller (NBA prospect caliber) player goes against him.. You see what happens when a big strong player goes against him..

Brick responded more thoroughly, but UConn doesn't really play zone much. He's been a good man defender this year even though he has been guarding people six-eight (yes EIGHT) inches smaller than himself. I mean, you wouldn't really expect a power forward to chase around a point guard, but that's essentially the comparison -- and yet even still he's doing it pretty well. You have to think about who he'd be playing against in the NBA, namely 7 footers who are mostly both slower and shorter than him.

 

[Smills91]

I really want to like Thabeet. A 7'3" shot blocking terror sounds like just what the doctor ordered. But every time I've seen him I've come away with the impression that he will not be a dominant defender in the NBA, but rather a shot-blocking specialist like Theo Ratliff with about as much offense. (That's Ratliff in his prime, mind you -- borderline All-Star in a weak conference -- not who he is now). He got dominated by Hibbert last year, he got dominated by Monroe this year. He's simply not a post defender. He can help keep guards out of the lane, but can he anchor a defense the way a Shaq or Duncan or KG can? I'm not so sure. That kind of player can be useful, no doubt, but I'm not sure I want to pencil in Theo Ratliff as my starting center and start dreaming of championships.

Granted 6'10" is a long way from 7'3", and comparing prospects to NBA players is often misleading. Having the tallest player on the court suit up for our side would certainly be a refreshing change. Like I said, I want to like Thabeet. But at this point, I'm just not comfortable with that level of risk in a top 5 pick. "The Gambit" as you say, seems like an unwise one to me. If I'm picking in the top 5, I want somebody who is going to wow me. I want somebody I believe in. So far, Thabeet doesn't qualify for me.

Pretty much sums up my feelings towards him. I feel much more comfortable investing a top 5 pick in Griffin, Harden, Holliday etc.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Realistically, the Kings are never going to take Thabeet. Petrie draft a big athletic guy with very little offense? Not going to happen.

Not saying I don't want him, but I really have my doubts about whether GP would take a guy like him.

 

[Kingster]

Um..... Sometimes shotblocking anchors your ENTIRE defense and you completely take away team's inside game, which is what Thabeet recently did to Notre Dame, Louisville, and Michigan. They were completely taken off their game and people just stopped challenging him entirely.

You guys are seriously underselling Thabeet. I understand if people have concerns about him being raw offensively -- he definitely is, and that could be a problem in the NBA. But he's been nothing short of spectacular lately. He's a true game-changer defensively whether he's getting blocks, hedging screens, or getting rebounds. He is a presence.

Trying to make the case that he's not a good defender is just ludicrous at this point.

He didn't look good against Monroe. He got freaking destroyed because Monroe is quicker and can hit an outside shot. He's going to be facing guys better than Monroe in the NBA. Sure, if you're a moron coach and you match up with him with a low post guy who can't score, then yeah, he's going to look fine. But if you have any brains as a coach, you'll take him outside with a quicker player like Monroe and then BEG Thabeet to try go low against your smaller player. In the meantime, you're going to be shooting more 3s because of that smaller player and Thabeet's rebounding is going to be curtailed because there are going to be longer rebounds going to quicker players. Again, until anybody comes up with a reasonable case of him being a threat down low in the next FIVE years, I don't see it.

 

[nbrans]

He didn't look good against Monroe. He got freaking destroyed because Monroe is quicker and can hit an outside shot. He's going to be facing guys better than Monroe in the NBA. Sure, if you're a moron coach and you match up with him with a low post guy who can't score, then yeah, he's going to look fine. But if you have any brains as a coach, you'll take him outside with a quicker player like Monroe and then BEG Thabeet to try go low against your smaller player. In the meantime, you're going to be shooting more 3s because of that smaller player and Thabeet's rebounding is going to be curtailed because there are going to be longer rebounds going to quicker players. Again, until anybody comes up with a reasonable case of him being a threat down low in the next FIVE years, I don't see it.

If by DESTROYED you mean that Monroe put up all of 16 points and 3 rebounds on 6-10 shooting (including two 3s, which Monroe doesn't hit consistently) in a game where Thabeet registered 7 blocked shots.... ok. Destroyed it is.

But I actually agree with you -- one of the important reasons Thabeet is going to need to improve his offense is so that he can make opposing coaches pay for going small against him. He's going to have to find ways to stay on the court even if he's matched up against a power forward if he's going to be more than a defensive roleplayer.

But one important thing ot keep in mind is that just about every team UConn has been going up against has been playing a zone specifically to collapse onto the post if Thabeet gets the ball, in order to make up for the height difference. That's not going to happen in the NBA, and Thabeet is going to have more room to operate offensively. He's already pretty good at sealing his defender with his size and drop stepping for the dunk, and I think he'll be able to make teams pay for trying to play smallball.

 

[Gary]

The more you post on him the more I wonder if you have seen him play this season, not 2 years ago, not even last year when he was starting to come around. This year. He's one of the Top 20 rebounders in college basketball this season, and one of the few on that list with any chance of duplicating that in the NBA (of the 15 guys ahead of him, I count basically 3 who have the size and come from major conferences): Blake Griffin, Luke Harangody (who may be too short and unathletic in the NBA) and Jordan Hill. Maybe Ahmad Nivins from St. Joseph's, but he's a marginal NBA prospect. All the rest are 6'7" 210lb typs guys playing for places like Coastal Carolina. He's also the #3 shotblocker in the country, and the two guys ahead of him are basically similar to Justin Williams in size.

Who are these quick undersized offensive minded centers that he is going to have to deal with in the Western Conference? Greg Oden? Andrew Bynum? Chris Kaman? Shaq? Yao? Dampier? Okur? Biedrins? Chandler? Jefferson? Marc Gasol? Nene? Duncan (as you would obviously put your PF on Bonner)? Collison? Big guys in college always have to face WORSE matchups than they do in the NBA, because most of the guys they match up with in college are pro PFs, sometimes even SFs. That's not why you get a big guy anyway -- any big guy is going to struggle with Al Harrington. Nobody cares. Al Harrington doesn't win you games. The big guys do. And its not about man defense for the most part. Its about the defense they play on everybody ELSE. All the guards and SFs who decide that hey, driving the lane against the Kings isn't nearly as much fun as it used to be.

Almost anybody can be a bust in the NBA -- I remember in the early 90s when we picked up Dennis Hopson at the end of his short career after he was a bust as a high draft pick. I actually kind of liked his game, but he was still an NBA high lottery bust after averaging 29.0pts 8.2rebs 3.6ast and 2.2stl a game on 51.8% shooting as a senior at Ohio State -- a major school in a major conference. There are no, or very few, sure things. But I would say that Thabeet has as little full on bust potential as any player at the top of this draft if you are drafting him for what he is rather than drafting him as some sort of fantasy Hakeem Olajuwon in training. He is always going to be huge, always going to have great shotblocking instincts, and at the very least he is going to be able to do those things in the NBA -- he has a calling card. Will he be able to do more? Who knows. But compared to the question of whether Blake is big enough or clever enoguh if he's not, Rubio athletic enough, Jennings anything more than a good high school player who ran away to Europe, Teague unselfish enough to play the point etc., you know that Thabeet is going to be able to do the things you primarily drafted him for. He may only do them as a Pryzbilla off the bench, or he may do them as a Ditkembe type starter, but he's got a calling card that translates. No questions of size or athleticism (I again defy anybody to name a 7'3"+ 260lb player who has ever moved like this) need apply. And while like any rookie he will have things to learn, he has supreme physical tools to play with and an excuse for the things he does not already know (relatively new to the game).

I will not annoint him as savior, as franchise player, or anything else over the top like that. But I will stand behind this: if we drafted him he would have a tangible impact on our defense next year. And when you are the worst defensive team in the league, and we are, that is nothig to sneeze at. It has to start somewhere unless we want to be laughingstocks forever, you need a defensive anchor, multiple defensive specialists. Well, there is one of those pieces sitting right there at the top of the draft.

Seen most of the ESPN games this year. Don't get me wrong, he has improved.. You listed a bunch of centers in the west that are stronger than Thabeet which he also has a problem with. He hasn't played against many this year, but the last two seasons Hibbert utterly annihilated him and he's a fringe starter at best right now. That's really the only comparison I can make because this year he has only gone up against Monroe, Austin Daye, and Samardo Samuels. He played very well against Samuels, Daye out performed him a bit, and Monroe destroyed him. Harangody out rebounded Thabeet and put up his usual numbers, but he's only 6'7 so I won't put much into it except for the rebound numbers.

The biggest thing that scares me about Thabeet is that he's only been playing for about 4 years. You cannot teach height, and athleticism, but I don't think he is experienced enough to help the Kings. I would be afraid another team would snatch him up after putting in a lackluster 3-5 years with the Kings. Thabeet doesn't mix it up inside as much as I would want. I see Adrien and Dyson mixing it up more than their 7'3 center going after rebounds. Give me Thabeet's body with Adrien's toughness, and instinct and I would love to bring the kid in.

Right now though i would have to say my list still stands at;

1. Griffin
2. Rubio
3. Holiday
4. Monroe
5. Mullens

 

[nbrans]

I really don't understand how people could have Holiday in their top 5. Great passer, good defender, not a special athlete and can't create any offense. It's just wishful thinking at this point.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Right now though i would have to say my list still stands at;

1. Griffin
2. Rubio
3. Holiday
4. Monroe
5. Mullens

Ok, I am with you on your Thabeet arguments, but I have to aask about the top 5. Holiday really hasn't shown any explosiveness or ability to create off the dribble, so I am interested in what you see in him that makes him #3? And also, Mullens is an interesting prospect, but extremely raw as well. In fact, almost all of the same arguments that could be made against Thabeet could be made against Mullens. So I am curious why you have him ranked so highly.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Obviously he is not in the same caliber as andrew bynum right now, because bynum has been in the nba for 4 years now, and thabeet has 3 years of college experience. I think Thabeet is much farther along right now than Bynum was when he first came into the league. I think Thabeet is capable of making some vast improvements like Bynum; its no guarantee, but he has the capability to do so.

If we dont take Thabeet, what other big guys besides griffin are there that you think have a higher cieling than thabeet? He has shown flashes of brilliance (dominating a louisville team with guys like samardo samuels who have dominated other frontlines), then also has been dominated by other top bigs, but most of that was in past seasons.

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to say thabeet is going to be the next mutombo, but due to the circumstances of a VERY weak draft class, I think he has to be strongly considered with some of the best potential to help our team long term, which is the main reason I'm on his bandwagon. If the guys like rose, beasley, mayo, gordon, etc. all stuck around in college another year and came out in this draft, thabeet wouldnt even be in my top 5, but that kind of talent isnt available, so i think we need to keep our minds open, and have trust in GP

(Wasnt trying to flame you Sptsjunkie)

No worries. And I agree with a lot of what you say. I think The Gambit deserves serious consideration, I am just not sure at this point he is worth a top 5 pick.

And another poster slightly after your post summed up why I don't agree with the Bynum comparison. Bynum is younger than Thabeet and already playing at an all star caliber level (injuries not withstanding). Thabeet is not really comparible to him.

 

[nbrans]

Anyone still wondering about Teague: watch the highlight reel from his game against Boston College. It basically shows everything he can do: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=290390154

 

[Vlade4GM]

1. Jeff Teague
2. Greg Monroe
3. Blake Griffin
4. Brandon Jennings
5. Jrue Holiday

Teague isn't exactly what I'd prefer at our PG position, but I think he's got the chance to be the most special.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Anyone still wondering about Teague: watch the highlight reel from his game against Boston College. It basically shows everything he can do: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=290390154

More I see of him, the more I like him. I just wish they would let him be their full time PG so we could get a better read on him. Summers is blindingly quick, but that's really as far as it goes. Quickest backcourt in the country?

As it stands, I'd still love if GP took him with our pick. He is a difficult one to read, but he could be something special. At the absolute least, you have a combo guard off the bench who can score and bring the ball up. At best, you've got a legit star. I'm not sure that the odds aren't stacked against him, but I think he can do it.

 

[Kingster]

If by DESTROYED you mean that Monroe put up all of 16 points and 3 rebounds on 6-10 shooting (including two 3s, which Monroe doesn't hit consistently) in a game where Thabeet registered 7 blocked shots.... ok. Destroyed it is.

But I actually agree with you -- one of the important reasons Thabeet is going to need to improve his offense is so that he can make opposing coaches pay for going small against him. He's going to have to find ways to stay on the court even if he's matched up against a power forward if he's going to be more than a defensive roleplayer.

But one important thing ot keep in mind is that just about every team UConn has been going up against has been playing a zone specifically to collapse onto the post if Thabeet gets the ball, in order to make up for the height difference. That's not going to happen in the NBA, and Thabeet is going to have more room to operate offensively. He's already pretty good at sealing his defender with his size and drop stepping for the dunk, and I think he'll be able to make teams pay for trying to play smallball.

Yes, I repeat, he got destroyed. I'll tell you the statistic that really reflects how much he got destroyed - the winning margin of the game. Otherwise, you just had to see it (as I know you did) in order appreciate the humble pie that Thabeet ate in that game. Frankly, he looked pretty foolish.

I agree about the zone issue, restricting his effectiveness. However, I think an opposing coach should think twice about zoning Thabeet, especially if they have a player that is an above average college player in the post. I really wouldn't lie awake at night sweating because Thabeet is going to score 30 on them shooting 60% from the field.

I hope Petrie's draft reflects Reynold's thinking - put the premium on quickness, not height. As Reynold's has said, and I agree, in the NBA it starts with the quickness advantage in matchups, then you go from there. Thabeet is the least quick player in the top 10. All the more reason to choose somebody else.

 

[hammystyle]

No worries. And I agree with a lot of what you say. I think The Gambit deserves serious consideration, I am just not sure at this point he is worth a top 5 pick.

And another poster slightly after your post summed up why I don't agree with the Bynum comparison. Bynum is younger than Thabeet and already playing at an all star caliber level (injuries not withstanding). Thabeet is not really comparible to him.

I don't know if this what you meant particularly, but I've seen it mentioned elsewhere too, "So and so is not worthy of a top 3 or top 5 pick." Blake Griffin is not a #1 overall pick etc....But that is just the reality of this draft. Griffin is really the only guy who'd have been a top 5 guy in any of the last three or four drafts. So while Thabeet may not be your typical "top 5" material...he certainly is in the mix this year.

I think Brick lays it out pretty well. There are real flaws/concerns in all of the top guys (other than Griffin) and there might not be many championship level starters let alone true impact guys.

Thabeet at least has a clearly definable NBA skill in his shot-blocking. I'd say his floor is a rich man's Desagana Diop, but his upside on both ends of the floor is tremendous. The thing that boodes well for him is his improvement speaks to hard work, and he has good hands which a lot of defensive guys do not. Its almost hard to fail when you are 7'3, athletic, have a good work ethic and have good hands.

BTW - His college career is pretty comparable to what Dikembe did, and he's doing it at a younger age.

 

[nbrans]

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think Monroe got the better of that matchup. I might just disagree somewhat on the degree, and part of that was Monroe playing out of his mind with his outside shooting.

Otherwise I think we're mostly in agreement. I don't have Thabeet at the top of my list because I share some of your concerns about what could happen in a smallball lineup. But at the same time, I don't think that's going to happen night in and night out, and even if he would struggle at times against shorter players, I don't think that's a reason not to draft a guy. It's kind of missing the forest for the trees - he's still a dynamic defensive player even if he has a weakness.

There are still plenty of centers out there that will be on the floor for Thabeet to guard, and, of course, a team that smallballs him is going to have to deal with his rebounding. I know people don't think he's an aggressive rebounder, but I think a lot of that has to do with avoiding foul trouble. Put him in the NBA where they won't be calling ticky tack stuff on him and I think that will be another way to stay on the floor.