The Kings have been on a downward spiral the last several years and I think that at some point you have to put a big part of the blame on the guy who put this team together, Geoff Petrie. I know there was some meddling from the Maloofs, especially with the coaching selecting process, but every time I turn on Sports 1140, all I hear is the tired phrase, "In Geoff We Trust." Hello??? We're 7-23!
Has Petrie's time with the Kings passed?
- Thread starter GameBall
- Start date
I am sure a lot of the people on this board are just happy we are finally rebuilding. Isn't this what rebuilding teams are supposed to do? The only problem I have is that they are also supposed to play their young guys so they can develop. 
If there is anything wrong with what Petrie did it was probably hanging onto mediocrity for about 2-3 years too long. I just hope he goes for cap space this offseason because we ain't getting anybody in 2010. Anybody good at least.
If there is anything wrong with what Petrie did it was probably hanging onto mediocrity for about 2-3 years too long. I just hope he goes for cap space this offseason because we ain't getting anybody in 2010. Anybody good at least.
I am sure a lot of the people on this board are just happy we are finally rebuilding. Isn't this what rebuilding teams are supposed to do? The only problem I have is that they are also supposed to play their young guys so they can develop.
If there is anything wrong with what Petrie did it was probably hanging onto mediocrity for about 2-3 years too long. I just hope he goes for cap space this offseason because we ain't getting anybody in 2010. Anybody good at least.
If there is anything wrong with what Petrie did it was probably hanging onto mediocrity for about 2-3 years too long. I just hope he goes for cap space this offseason because we ain't getting anybody in 2010. Anybody good at least.
2005-Shareef Abdur-Rahim (the Nets backed out because of SAR's knee; Geoff should have saw SAR's injury problems from a mile away)
2006-John Salmons (his talent is worth the money; the only MLE signing I'm okay with)
2007-Mikki Moore (not worth the money)
2008-Beno Udrih (seemed good last year, but there's a reason why he wasn't signed with a team the beginning of last season)
About playing the young kids, we can only hope that Natt is playing Miller and Salmons a lot to package them in a trade that clears cap space so then after the trade deadline the kids can play more. That is the only reason why playing the old guys makes sense.
By the way, your avatar says "On Strike." What are you striking against?
Salmons... imo a bad signing too. What for? What is the point of having a competent middling slasher with no real special locker room presence or charisma? I guess somebody has got to be "the man" on a team like this. I'll give him that he's competent. ok. yeay!
Geoff has been disappointing me a lot lately. Cannot give him any credit for the Spencer Hawes draft pick he kind of backed into that one. If Jason Thompson turns into a poor man's CWebb over the years it will rehabilitate Geoff's image for me a little. But I've been pretty down on the front office for a while now. Honestly... since the Webber trade.
I think, although I don't know if I can prove it, that I have been holding my nose about the Beano hype since the beginning. Too many red flags from the Spurs locker room about this guy. Oh well.
Perhaps Geoff is "due" and will knock the next move outta the park.
Geoff has been disappointing me a lot lately. Cannot give him any credit for the Spencer Hawes draft pick he kind of backed into that one. If Jason Thompson turns into a poor man's CWebb over the years it will rehabilitate Geoff's image for me a little. But I've been pretty down on the front office for a while now. Honestly... since the Webber trade.
I think, although I don't know if I can prove it, that I have been holding my nose about the Beano hype since the beginning. Too many red flags from the Spurs locker room about this guy. Oh well.
Perhaps Geoff is "due" and will knock the next move outta the park.
I wanted to add something else... anybody who listens to Sportsline with Rant Napear in the afternoon knows that Rant won't put up with anyone who criticizes Petrie. The problem is the callers who call in to criticize Petrie never seem very bright or they don't articulate their positions very well, and Rant cuts them down to size. I sometimes actually think that the callers who criticize Petrie are plants, i.e. people who are hired to call in to criticize Petrie and do so in an unintelligible way, thereby supporting Rant's position, since he works for the Maloofs. And Rant, don't tell me you don't work for the Maloofs while you're working for Sports 1140, like you're two different people, like Christian Slater in "My Own Worst Enemy."
But Kenny Thomas was one of those "tradeable pieces" that we got for Webber, remember?
Anytime you make a trade you want to be in the drivers seat. You want to be the one that can walk away if you don't like it. When it came to trading Webber, Petrie surely wasn't in the drivers seat. I would have bet my life that he couldn't even find a partner in a trade for Webb. And most people on this very fourm were very surprised that he was able to pull it off. And to be fair there were people on this fourm that were opposed to the trade from the get go.
I believe that the Maloff's looked at the team and saw a lot of the original core still there. They probably believed that all it needed was a few bandaids here and there and the team would be as good as new. Thus the extended efforts to hang on to the glory of the past. Say what you want about Petrie, but he's not stupid and he's a good judge of talent. Douby aside, most of his picks have been good one's.
One last thing. I know there are those who think he backed into Hawes, because he was the only one left. If you simply look at the draft picks that he's made in the past, logic would tell you that Noah just isn't the type of player that he would pick. He likes very skilled offensive players that have a high basketball IQ and preferably good passers. Noah is none of those things. Hawes is all of those things. Its my belief that if both players had been available at the time of the choice, Petrie still would have taken Hawes. Petrie may not be the best GM in the league, and I've had my disagreements with some of the things that I perceive he's done, but he's still better than most out there.
For those that wonder what my biggest complaint is with Petrie. I think he's way too methodical. He drives me nuts with his slow approach to things. I know he's a thoughtful person, but sometimes I just want to scream. Instead I just drink another cervesa.
uh have you really watched the kings the past few years? i don't think its all petrie's fault. it seemed ownership wanted to stay competitive while rebuilding which resulted in patchwork on the team. ownership decided to part ways with a proven coach because "defense" wins championships. they went ahead and hired 2 of their guys which did not work out. one guy wowed ownership by writing a book on what he would/could do with the team. the other guy who had a new mexico/sacramento connection. face the truth, we're in a rebuilding stage and will not be good for a few years. if petrie still cannot get it done in a few years with control over decision making on the team then i say axe the guy.
with all this information, is it fair to pin it on petrie? when will ownership allow petrie to actually do his job??
I think you have to stick with Petrie at least the next three years.
First, and most importantly, I have absolutely zero confidence in the Maloofs picking his replacement. I'd bet my house that if Petrie gets fired we get to see the new reality show "Who Wants To Be The Kings GM".
Secondly, this years draft pick, possibly next years draft pick, and our free agent signing(s) whether we get cap space this year or in 2010, are going to determine whether we have a team that can contend or are stuck in the lottery the next 5 years. Petrie has a great record in the draft, although most of it has come from getting value in later picks, and you still have to take his record against an unknown replacement. Same with free agency, he has a terrible habit of spending the MLE every year, but most of the guys he has brought in have both fit well with the team and played at least up to expectations. His only big free agant signing was Vlade, which worked out very well, which has to compare favorably to anything John Whisenant or Jerry Reynolds or whoever else the Maloofs may decide as his replacement have ever done.
I have a lot less confidence in Petrie than I did in 2002, and if Kevin Pritchard was knocking at the door getting rid of Petrie would be a no brainer to me, but there's steep drop from Pritchard down to Kevin Mchale or Isiah Thomas. I think that you give him the next two years to get a team together, and a year to prove if it can succeed. If you don't have a winning team by then, he should be out the door, but his record can stand up with just about anyone out there, and I'd take my chances with that especially considering the magnitude of the decisions the next two years.
First, and most importantly, I have absolutely zero confidence in the Maloofs picking his replacement. I'd bet my house that if Petrie gets fired we get to see the new reality show "Who Wants To Be The Kings GM".
Secondly, this years draft pick, possibly next years draft pick, and our free agent signing(s) whether we get cap space this year or in 2010, are going to determine whether we have a team that can contend or are stuck in the lottery the next 5 years. Petrie has a great record in the draft, although most of it has come from getting value in later picks, and you still have to take his record against an unknown replacement. Same with free agency, he has a terrible habit of spending the MLE every year, but most of the guys he has brought in have both fit well with the team and played at least up to expectations. His only big free agant signing was Vlade, which worked out very well, which has to compare favorably to anything John Whisenant or Jerry Reynolds or whoever else the Maloofs may decide as his replacement have ever done.
I have a lot less confidence in Petrie than I did in 2002, and if Kevin Pritchard was knocking at the door getting rid of Petrie would be a no brainer to me, but there's steep drop from Pritchard down to Kevin Mchale or Isiah Thomas. I think that you give him the next two years to get a team together, and a year to prove if it can succeed. If you don't have a winning team by then, he should be out the door, but his record can stand up with just about anyone out there, and I'd take my chances with that especially considering the magnitude of the decisions the next two years.
He is the GM -- we don't "give" the GM cap room, or picks, or draft position or anything else. He gives it to himself. And he hasn't.
I too would be interested to see what he could do given a true and total rebuild LIKE THE ONE THAT STARTED THE WHOLE DAMN GOLDEN AGE GEOFF. But since he has been a complete and utter idiot for years and simply refused to position himself for such a rebuild, that has remained a pipe dream.
This is kind of the last go round now -- we have been dragged kicking and screaming into a rebuild here, and if Geoff is not going to take advantage of the opportunity to fully commit now, when he is only a few moves away, it is hard to see when or how he would ever commit. I am going to be patient this year since we are better positioned than most people realize, IF we take advantage of it. But there is no longer any excuse at all if we do not. Has not been for years really, except for a lack of vision. But at this point its sitting right there staring even the dimmest of bulbs right in the face. And as I shouted out above, for Geoff Petrie of all people to lack the cahones to carry it out would just be pathetic -- his entire reputation is built upon a single instance of just the sort of rebuild that needs to take place here. We cleaned the roster of nearly evey vet, landed a lottery pick (+ had some prior ones come through), brought in a major FA, and hired an experienced coach and all of a sudden we had our best years. There is nothing stopping all of that from happening again except Geoff himself.
I'm shocked, you compliment GP
Then in the same post you blame him
Now, we've been through this a hundred times. He built a great team with Vlade, Weber, Peja, & Bibby. But, it all fell apart with Webber's injury, for which GP is not to blame. And, we've been over every move he's made since, to get out from under Webber's contract. But, the truth about every MLE signing he's made since, is that we had no cap space and therefore, very few options. So, in hind site go ahead an critique every FA signing, but we'll never know what other options if any GP had at the time. And, to call him a IDIOT without knowing all the fact, doesn't place you in a favorable light.
On the other hand, I'm more than satisfied with his draft choices. Though his waste of the two 2nd rounders late year, could have been avoided even with the Luxury Tax restrictions. Free of all the bad contracts when Miller & K9 are gone, with a good base of young talent, and with cap space, I believe GP's star shines again.
Then in the same post you blame him
Now, we've been through this a hundred times. He built a great team with Vlade, Weber, Peja, & Bibby. But, it all fell apart with Webber's injury, for which GP is not to blame. And, we've been over every move he's made since, to get out from under Webber's contract. But, the truth about every MLE signing he's made since, is that we had no cap space and therefore, very few options. So, in hind site go ahead an critique every FA signing, but we'll never know what other options if any GP had at the time. And, to call him a IDIOT without knowing all the fact, doesn't place you in a favorable light.
On the other hand, I'm more than satisfied with his draft choices. Though his waste of the two 2nd rounders late year, could have been avoided even with the Luxury Tax restrictions. Free of all the bad contracts when Miller & K9 are gone, with a good base of young talent, and with cap space, I believe GP's star shines again.
Look, Kevin Pritchard is a very fine GM but lets get one thing straight. Everything Kevin Pritchard wants, he gets. The wallet is open for him to do what he thinks is the right thing to do.
How many first round picks, in the last 3 years did the Blazers just buy for cash? $3 million per first round pick each time the just plain bought one from another team?
When was the last time Maloofs gave that kind of freedom to Petrie?! You cannot tell me that a GM with a drafting track record like Petrie wouldn't have liked another pick so that he can pick another player he likes?
Blazers just bought first rounder after first rounder for 2 or 3 years straight. Thats 2-3 good players per year, plus theor own picks and plus their own trades. Maloofs would hit the roof if Petrie proposed a trade that would include us dumping bad contracts and getting Marbury who we would immedietly pay out! Portland got rid of Randolph and got Francis in return who was immedietly bought out. Can you see Maloofs giving Petrie that kind of freedom?! I sure as hell cannot!
How many first round picks, in the last 3 years did the Blazers just buy for cash? $3 million per first round pick each time the just plain bought one from another team?
When was the last time Maloofs gave that kind of freedom to Petrie?! You cannot tell me that a GM with a drafting track record like Petrie wouldn't have liked another pick so that he can pick another player he likes?
Blazers just bought first rounder after first rounder for 2 or 3 years straight. Thats 2-3 good players per year, plus theor own picks and plus their own trades. Maloofs would hit the roof if Petrie proposed a trade that would include us dumping bad contracts and getting Marbury who we would immedietly pay out! Portland got rid of Randolph and got Francis in return who was immedietly bought out. Can you see Maloofs giving Petrie that kind of freedom?! I sure as hell cannot!
And as I have mentioned before Geoff Petrie's only real run of success as a GM directly coincided with the open purse strings of the Maloof's early years. That dried up in dramatic fashion after the 02-03 season, and so did Geoff's success. Those days ain't coming back, so again we will see if he can, or is even willing to try to, duplicate his success from a decade ago (and yes, its been a full decade now). There is nothing we have to do in the immediate future where limited finances sould make any huge difference, nor for the matter has that been much of the story up inPortland, where they have done all this while SHEDDING $30 mil in cap (will help them retain their players though).
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Petrie's last draft picks..
MArtin
Garcia
Douby
Hawes
Thompson
other than Douby those were pretty solid picks
Signings
Udrih
Moore
Salmons
SAR
SAR--> if his knees didnt blow out we would have a servicable big man and a trading piece
most of his signings are decent enough salmons is a bargain at 4 mil producing 20ppg..
what im saying is that i dont think he is losing his touch... last coach pickings were done by the maloofs right?
musselman cause of his powerpoint when geoff insisted they reconsider
Theus because of his media presence
i say let the man do his work...
MArtin
Garcia
Douby
Hawes
Thompson
other than Douby those were pretty solid picks
Signings
Udrih
Moore
Salmons
SAR
SAR--> if his knees didnt blow out we would have a servicable big man and a trading piece
most of his signings are decent enough salmons is a bargain at 4 mil producing 20ppg..
what im saying is that i dont think he is losing his touch... last coach pickings were done by the maloofs right?
musselman cause of his powerpoint when geoff insisted they reconsider
Theus because of his media presence
i say let the man do his work...
Obviously Pritchard has a lot of tools at his disposal that Petrie, or any other GM in the league for that matter, does not. But taking away the picks he's bought -- Fernandez, Rodrigiuz, Batum and Freeland -- and replace Oden, who was partially luck, with another pick from the lotterythat year and he's still done an exceptional job using the same resources that would be available to most GMs.
I disagree about Maloofs not allowing the Randolph/Francis trade. That was a basketball decision which improved the team while saving long term money. The harder one to justify would have been taking on the extra year of LaFrentz for the pick that became Brandon Roy, but at that time they only had Pryzbilla at C so it could be justified.
What seperates a guy like Pritchard from Petrie in my eyes isn't the eye for talent, I believe Petries ability there is very near the top of the league. The difference is the agressiveness, or lack thereof, that we've seen from Petrie the last few years. SAR and Salmons were only signed because a deal with another team fell through. Two years ago it was reported that he really wanted Noah, but we ended up with Hawes. Last year he wanted Augustine and Bayless, but we ended up with Thompson. Don't get me wrong, I love both Hawes and Thompson, and Petrie should get a lot of credit for picking them up, which was my earlier point in saying that I'd choose Petrie over any other guy possibly available as our GM. However, if you compare that "take what you end up with" attitude with what Pritchard did in 2006, making the required moves to get the two guys he really wanted -Roy and Aldridge- out the steaming pile of crap that was the lottery that year, and while its too early to tell how good Bayless will be, Pritchard should get the credit for doing what he did to actually get the guy he wanted. I'd take the more aggressive attitude 10 times out of 10.
Its always easy to pick on the coach or the Gm, or the owners, and rightly so. They represent the team in some capacity. And, I'm by no means saying that some don't deserve it. I also think that being objective about a GM is one of the harder things to do when the GM is someone like Petrie. Is Danny Ainge a good GM, based on his one year of, either luck or educated, or both moves that brought the Celt's a championship? Would any of you want him to replace Petrie? I don't think I would.
GM's are like an iceberg. You only see the third thats sticking out above the water. When you watch a game, you get to see every play, every move and every timeout. So you can make a pretty good judgement about what you saw. With a GM, not so true. Its the two thirds thats below the water that we need to see and don't, won't and can't. All we can do is judge the results, without knowing how the results occurred. Its sort of like seeing the score of the game without actually seeing the game.
Don't get me wrong. If the results are always the same and leaning mostly to bad, well then you have a pretty fair idea how good the GM is. But if the track record is inconsistant. A good move here, followed by a bad move there, it gets trickier. In Petrie's case the track record has been consistantly decent to good, if less than spectacular at times. He certainly ranks as one of the better GM's in the league. He's a bit of a plodder,and perhaps I can identify with him because I tend to be one myself.
I guess I would say, be careful what you wish for. Most of those who wished for the firing of Adleman, would probably wish to have him back right now. Hmmm, I may have been one of those people. Great thing about getting old. You don't remember your mistakes.
GM's are like an iceberg. You only see the third thats sticking out above the water. When you watch a game, you get to see every play, every move and every timeout. So you can make a pretty good judgement about what you saw. With a GM, not so true. Its the two thirds thats below the water that we need to see and don't, won't and can't. All we can do is judge the results, without knowing how the results occurred. Its sort of like seeing the score of the game without actually seeing the game.
Don't get me wrong. If the results are always the same and leaning mostly to bad, well then you have a pretty fair idea how good the GM is. But if the track record is inconsistant. A good move here, followed by a bad move there, it gets trickier. In Petrie's case the track record has been consistantly decent to good, if less than spectacular at times. He certainly ranks as one of the better GM's in the league. He's a bit of a plodder,and perhaps I can identify with him because I tend to be one myself.
I guess I would say, be careful what you wish for. Most of those who wished for the firing of Adleman, would probably wish to have him back right now. Hmmm, I may have been one of those people. Great thing about getting old. You don't remember your mistakes.
Geoff's got a great eye for talent, but during the past few years he's displayed a poor business sense.
Who knows, maybe the Maloofs got involved, maybe there's factors that we don't know about...but the proof is in the pudding.
Geoff hasn't signed a quality free agent in years or made any spectacular trades. The recent Artest for Greene/Draft Pick/B-Jax was a good rebuild move, but that's whipped cream on a cow pattie.
Has his time passed? I can't honestly say. I still think he's got some good trades up his sleeve, and again he's a great judge of talent - minus Quincy Douby, of course. But it appears more and more that the organization is moving on without him. He reportedly tabled an extension past 2010, and Jason Levien was brought in to "help" him...I personally think Geoff's on his way out.
Who knows, maybe the Maloofs got involved, maybe there's factors that we don't know about...but the proof is in the pudding.
Geoff hasn't signed a quality free agent in years or made any spectacular trades. The recent Artest for Greene/Draft Pick/B-Jax was a good rebuild move, but that's whipped cream on a cow pattie.
Has his time passed? I can't honestly say. I still think he's got some good trades up his sleeve, and again he's a great judge of talent - minus Quincy Douby, of course. But it appears more and more that the organization is moving on without him. He reportedly tabled an extension past 2010, and Jason Levien was brought in to "help" him...I personally think Geoff's on his way out.
petrie is starting to rebuild this team. Look at youth with hawes, thompson and green and then throw in kevin and fransico we have a good young base the miller signing at the time was a good move if he finally gets someone to trade for hime don't except much in return probly expiring contracts but that works. Sactown have faith this is a rebuild give it anouther year or so if we are still bad in 3 years then the petrie bashing will be just just give hime sometime.
Everyone is entitled to their opinon, but to me this is rebuilding. I am glad we have good young pieces, multiple draft picks and are not making any panic moves. Every team not in a top 2 media market undergoes rebuidling no matter how good the GM. I'm not going to turn on Geoff for doing the right thing here. There will be some painful basketball played over the next 2 years, but it will be worth it. And in my opinon, it is already more fun to watch this 7-23 team, than the 35-40 win teams with KT, Bibby, Artest, etc. playing relatively disinterested basketball.
The "Petrie doesn't get any credit for Hawes pick" mantra is probably one of the worst lines of reasoning on this board. It is even funnier that it started on this board AFTER the pick worked out. Go back to the draft day threads and 75% of the board was against picking Hawes and thought that Wright or Thornton or even Jason Smith should have been the pick. If Petrie's draft history tells us anything, it is that he does not simply pick the most conventional player, but will always take the player he likes the best. If Hawes looked awful, posters would be lambasting Petrie for having picked Hawes over other players. So with Hawes looking legit, you really have to give Petrie credit for making the right pick. He did not "back into" anything.