Scott Howard Cooper trade idea: Artest/KT for Odom
- Thread starter nbrans
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The thing is about this trade, I like it because I like Lamar much more than Artest. However, we don't really get a rebuilding package here otehr than just cap space and with Beno's signing do we really have any potential for cap space assuming we did give up KT? How about if we moved Miller in another trade? I would be nice if we could get Sun Yue as well, but that might be pushing it. Lamar does have much better trade value than Artest and that's where we'd win big, but we'd have to trade him to take advantage of that and I think the kings would want to do that.
To me, Lamar in a sense is the anti-Artest, instead of being really arrogant and a ball hog, he's really humble and unselfish (many times to a fault.) Lamar will bring us very good rebounding, and a legitimate scoring threat some nights. He's a good passer and facilitator, but he's never really succeeded in a primary ballhandler/facilitator role, he doesn't really have the aggressiveness and decision making to do it. But he's much better at it when he's in an up tempo system which we plan to run, and I think Lamar would be a great fit with our pieces if we decide to keep him. His jump shot is very frustrating, he can't really make any shot outside 10 ft with any kind of consistency that you'd want from a forward. Most of his game comes from driving to the hoop and using his length to finish although sometimes he doesn't finish as strong as he should, he's very good on putbacks and getting offensive rebounds out on the perimeter; he's got a solid back to the basket game when he actually decides to use it, but he doesn't use it enough.
A problem I foresee though is that Lamar would react to Sacramento in a similar way Webber did at first, I don't think he'll try to ditch out on us, but I think it could seriously alter his mood being here. Lamar is a big city guy, he's played in NY, Miami, and LA pretty much his entire career. He's not going to like being here even with a bigger role on the team and perhaps a better offensive scheme for his game. I just know that barring any extreme acts of loyalty or a huge sum of money, I highly doubt Lamar would want to stay here long term.
To me, Lamar in a sense is the anti-Artest, instead of being really arrogant and a ball hog, he's really humble and unselfish (many times to a fault.) Lamar will bring us very good rebounding, and a legitimate scoring threat some nights. He's a good passer and facilitator, but he's never really succeeded in a primary ballhandler/facilitator role, he doesn't really have the aggressiveness and decision making to do it. But he's much better at it when he's in an up tempo system which we plan to run, and I think Lamar would be a great fit with our pieces if we decide to keep him. His jump shot is very frustrating, he can't really make any shot outside 10 ft with any kind of consistency that you'd want from a forward. Most of his game comes from driving to the hoop and using his length to finish although sometimes he doesn't finish as strong as he should, he's very good on putbacks and getting offensive rebounds out on the perimeter; he's got a solid back to the basket game when he actually decides to use it, but he doesn't use it enough.
A problem I foresee though is that Lamar would react to Sacramento in a similar way Webber did at first, I don't think he'll try to ditch out on us, but I think it could seriously alter his mood being here. Lamar is a big city guy, he's played in NY, Miami, and LA pretty much his entire career. He's not going to like being here even with a bigger role on the team and perhaps a better offensive scheme for his game. I just know that barring any extreme acts of loyalty or a huge sum of money, I highly doubt Lamar would want to stay here long term.
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What about using Shariff's bad contract instead of Kenny Thomas
The two year hit is only $12,800 instead of $16,495 for the Lakers and with their high salaries that is a big difference.
We still save $6.6 mil on Shariff's contract next year
Maybe get them to throw in a Draft Pick?
Ron 8,450,000
Shar 6,200,000
6,600,000 - 2nd yr
---------
Tot 21,250,000
vs
Ron 8,450,000
KT 7,942,000
8,553,000 - 2nd yr
---------
Tot 24,945,000
Odem 14,559,000
I really dont see Lakers taking on addl 10 mil in salary due to Kt
plus still have to pay ron more next year to keep him?
But maybe only 6.6 mil they could swallow?
The two year hit is only $12,800 instead of $16,495 for the Lakers and with their high salaries that is a big difference.
We still save $6.6 mil on Shariff's contract next year
Maybe get them to throw in a Draft Pick?
Ron 8,450,000
Shar 6,200,000
6,600,000 - 2nd yr
---------
Tot 21,250,000
vs
Ron 8,450,000
KT 7,942,000
8,553,000 - 2nd yr
---------
Tot 24,945,000
Odem 14,559,000
I really dont see Lakers taking on addl 10 mil in salary due to Kt
plus still have to pay ron more next year to keep him?
But maybe only 6.6 mil they could swallow?
I think those are all legitimate concerns, but I think there's potential for it working in several different directions. Whatever the long-term plans, Odom is an uncommonly good fit on the current Kings roster. He's a very good rebounder on a team that's not, he's a good fit offensively with his passing, and he'd fit much better with the Kings roster than he does in LA. He's also not old at 28. So step 1 is just seeing him in the lineup and seeing how it works.
Step 2 is, depending on how he works, trying to trade him at the deadline. Given that he's a known commodity and team player, he may be able to fetch a pretty good deal.
Step 3 would be to let him go and take the cap space. There would probably need to be one more deal that would need to happen to create significant room for a splashy free agency, but taking away KT's salary would open up the possibility of making a possible run at a mid-tier free agent, or, more likely, making a Minnesota/Seattle-esque trade where you facilitate someone else's trade by taking on a Calvin Booth/Kurt Thomas type player for a year and get a young player and/or pick for your trouble. That would still leave open the big free agency year of 2010. Cap space is always useful.
So overall, I think it opens up possibilities. It doesn't necessarily have to be one thing or another.
If you get Lakers to bite on Ron,Shariff for Odom Plus High 1st Pick
Then Trade Odem for enders and a 1st Draft Pick by the trade deadline
We then have 3 1st round Picks next year, plus Shariff 6.6 mill off books
Then go in following year with cap space, we have all sorts of youth, plus Kevin Martin and Big money free agent
I Like It!!!!!!
I just think KT's contract is just too dang big to get Lakers to bite
Then Trade Odem for enders and a 1st Draft Pick by the trade deadline
We then have 3 1st round Picks next year, plus Shariff 6.6 mill off books
Then go in following year with cap space, we have all sorts of youth, plus Kevin Martin and Big money free agent
I Like It!!!!!!
I just think KT's contract is just too dang big to get Lakers to bite
Very true, I would do the trade and it could very well lead to some nice rebuilding pieces at some point and in the mean time I definitely think Lamar fits in, and I like Lamar's game for us a lot. I think we should do this, and I don't think we need to make it contingent on the lakers taking KT, if we let them take Mikki instead we could get a 2nd round pick or maybe Sun Yue.
Man, I can't believe the lakers are really offering us Lamar for Artest. Phil must really think he can change him.
Man, I can't believe the lakers are really offering us Lamar for Artest. Phil must really think he can change him.
Well I understand why Phil would want Artest, he has wanted him ever since Indy put him on the trade market. The problem is that the Busses really don't like Artest and I'd say they have every reason not to like him. The dude is a ticking time bomb and Phil can't change him, nobody can.
Also the lakers need someone at the 3 spot who can move and score off the ball while Kobe does the primary ball handling and faciliates. Artest isn't going to do that, Kobe is going to be the no.1 option while Gasol and Bynum are going to alternate between 2 and 3. I understand wanting Artest to play D, but his offense just won't fit into the triangle because he needs the ball to operate. He's more than likely going to be a 4th option.
Also the lakers need someone at the 3 spot who can move and score off the ball while Kobe does the primary ball handling and faciliates. Artest isn't going to do that, Kobe is going to be the no.1 option while Gasol and Bynum are going to alternate between 2 and 3. I understand wanting Artest to play D, but his offense just won't fit into the triangle because he needs the ball to operate. He's more than likely going to be a 4th option.
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Why? I dont see any reason to gaurentee the Laker another Championship, i think we could use this idea as leverage to get more from other teams. We could say to Denver or any other team that we will pull a Memphis, and give him away to La for Nothing, unless they pony up...We have already had KT for 3 years, it would be stupid to not ride that out. We have our expiring contract, and KT is it(it just expires after next year). Why would we give Ron Artest away for Nothing, unless we wanted to pee off everyone who isn't the Lakers.
Funny. I read an article several years ago about Odom and it said just the opposite. It said that he liked the small town atmosphere. He may have since changed his mind, but just because you've played in big cities your entire career, doesn't mean you like big cities.
I would love Odom on our team. Your right, he's unselfish, he's a pretty good defender, he can play either the SF or the PF position and he's been basicly a 15/10 guy for the last five years. He's not as good a defender as Artest, but he does fit better on this team than Artest does. He's also a very good passer, which this team needs.
Cap wise, it doesn't really affect us one way or another this year. However, next year if he decides to walk, for whatever reason, were under the cap more than we would have been because of K. Thomas being included.
I would love Odom on our team. Your right, he's unselfish, he's a pretty good defender, he can play either the SF or the PF position and he's been basicly a 15/10 guy for the last five years. He's not as good a defender as Artest, but he does fit better on this team than Artest does. He's also a very good passer, which this team needs.
Cap wise, it doesn't really affect us one way or another this year. However, next year if he decides to walk, for whatever reason, were under the cap more than we would have been because of K. Thomas being included.
Well, he grew up in a city and he's played in them ever since. I think it's a fair assumption that's where he's comfortable and he certainly likes the night life. Maybe it would be good for him to get out of the big city scene.
He's an okay defender, his man D is above avg most of the times, but his team D is below avg IMO. If you watched him in the finals, he'd be totally asleep on his help D, completely useless there. He plays more consistent D out on the perimeter and has solid D against some 4's, skinnier more perimeter oriented 4's.
He's an okay defender, his man D is above avg most of the times, but his team D is below avg IMO. If you watched him in the finals, he'd be totally asleep on his help D, completely useless there. He plays more consistent D out on the perimeter and has solid D against some 4's, skinnier more perimeter oriented 4's.
Sorry dude, but K.T.'s contract doesn't expire until the year after next. We have him for two more years. Or the Lakers do.. Hopefully. Also, when making a trade, your primiry concern should be how it helps your own team. If you think your getting more than your losing, you don't worry about the other team.
Man, i feel your need to free up money. but that money is going to be spent on someone. Now, would you rather spend that money on someone you KNOW wont be around after the contract is up, or on a player you still need to evaluate(while paying him). I like the idea of knowing where we are with certain players like KT. I agree about primarily helping the Kings, but if that involves making enemies with 1/2 the leauge, no thanks. One word destroys this trade, politics.
Dude, this isn't trading Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, this is Artest for LO. A lot of teams aren't even going to think this helps the lakers that much. Even if that's the case, do you really think the league holds grudges to the point where they black list? Come on, doesn't work like that, if they can work a trade that helps their team they'll do it whether they think we "helped" the lakers or not.
This trade helps us in many ways and it would be stupid to get hung up over it being to the lakers.
This trade helps us in many ways and it would be stupid to get hung up over it being to the lakers.
But that cap is going to be spent anyways. And KT is obviously not part o' the future, therfore when the cap is available, we know where we aren't spending it. But if Lo performs slightly well, at that point we would have to explore re-signing him to a long term deal, which would kill any theorhetical cap space this faux trade produces. I like KT where he is. And Artest is not a problem for anyone but the team he plays next.
1 on 5 is pretty impressive. One must be very confident in ones' abilities to boast such a feat on a nightly basis, as Ron Artest seems to do. At least he is hungry, unlike Odom. This year in the finas, Odom was inconsistent, and a silent member of a loosing squad. If artest was on the floor, he would be saying a bunch of different stuff that would motivate his team mates to elevate thier game. I dont think Artest is a lost cause, and i do think Lamar is. Odom is not a step in the right direction. unless we want to dibilitate our franchise. which may be the right thing to do
Feat? It's a feat to overdribble and jack up stupid shots while freezing out your teammates? No, that's not an impressive feat, it's just an arrogant jackass pretending to be something he's not. I'd rather have a role player who acts like a role player than a role player who acts like a star player.
Obviously he was IN the finals. But he wont bring the finals with him wherever he lands in a trade. He is nothing less than a talented expiring contract. Talent and expiring contract aren't always good in tandem. I like our current expiring contracts. I propose KT and Brad Miller for LO. Ill sign off on that deal. Ron has talent that could be utilized many different ways for a handful of different teams. LO is depressed and depressing. I don't want his baggage or him for that matter. When did Lamar O. become a player the kings SHOULD covet? Because we shouldn't.
PEOPLEEEEE! This is all about a financial decision! it has NOTHING to do with PERSONAL. If it does, its secondary to a salary cap dump. I would like to have a guy like Lamar on this team because we are going no where and if we could resign him for under 10 mil a season, I would consider it. But that is irrelivant.
1st reason this is a great trade is that is shed's an terrible contract.
Secondly, we can move Odom to a contender at the deadline for picks, kids, or some talent.
3rd options is whatever Lamar can do for us on the court.
This game is all about how to work the cap. Orlando has Howard but will be winning in the next 5 years? NO!!! because they maxed out thier cap on the trio of Howard, Nelson, and Lewis. Is that gonna win a championship for close to 50mil? a year? no... its all about the money. We keep an open check book, and we can splash big sooner than later.
1st reason this is a great trade is that is shed's an terrible contract.
Secondly, we can move Odom to a contender at the deadline for picks, kids, or some talent.
3rd options is whatever Lamar can do for us on the court.
This game is all about how to work the cap. Orlando has Howard but will be winning in the next 5 years? NO!!! because they maxed out thier cap on the trio of Howard, Nelson, and Lewis. Is that gonna win a championship for close to 50mil? a year? no... its all about the money. We keep an open check book, and we can splash big sooner than later.