[SAS/NOH] - who will Bowen injure now ?

[4cwebb]

they only called a foul because west was writhing on the ground. horry stood his ground like he supposed to do on a pick. west created the contact and it sucks that he was hurt, but if anybody fouled anybody on that play, west fouled horry.

i watched the game. i saw plenty of bad calls help the spurs, i got no axe to grind on this. i just want the truth to be told!

I didn't see the play, but if it was anything like the Tyson Chandler/Tony Parker play from Game 5 where Tony got knocked down just b/c he didn't know Chandler was setting a pick, and foul was called on the Chandler, then a foul being called on Horry would be the consistent call.

Also, imho Bowen deserves a lot of credit for his two defensive plays that prevented the Hornets from getting closer than 5 early in the 3rd quarter (and allowing the Spurs to find their shooting to put the Hornets down). The offensive foul he drew from Paul on Paul's drive to the rim was an impressive play, and then running back into Paul's path (and basically outrunning Paul to get to that spot) and causing Paul to put out his arm and "push off" was another great defensive play. I'd wish Paul would have tried the old Magic Johnson move of cutting off a defender running from behind by moving into his path, but he may not have thought Bowen would actually catch up with him. Either way, I've dogged Bowen for his cheap play plenty of times, but those two plays show why he has been such a great defensive presence the past 5 or so years. If only he weren't a cheap shot artist as well...

 

[Showtime]

Who on earth sets blind picks by leaning so far forward that they stand on their toes?

If Horry was just trying to set a regualr blind pick for Manu, he should have stood straight up like any other normal pick.

 

[Pacboy]

they only called a foul because west was writhing on the ground. horry stood his ground like he supposed to do on a pick. west created the contact and it sucks that he was hurt, but if anybody fouled anybody on that play, west fouled horry.

i watched the game. i saw plenty of bad calls help the spurs, i got no axe to grind on this. i just want the truth to be told!

Oh yea..I'm sure his back foul Horry's body real well. Did you join in with the Horry chant afterward too?

 

[Ryle]

they only called a foul because west was writhing on the ground. horry stood his ground like he supposed to do on a pick. west created the contact and it sucks that he was hurt, but if anybody fouled anybody on that play, west fouled horry.

i watched the game. i saw plenty of bad calls help the spurs, i got no axe to grind on this. i just want the truth to be told!

If you watch the replay above and still think West committed the foul and Horry didn't than you are just being a homer.

 

[Jerryaki]

technically though, if the defender is the one who initiates the contact, is it a foul? unlike last year where horry clearly went after nash, in this situation west ran into horry. and while horry really laid it into him by leaning forward, he was stationary and west ran into him, so i'm not sure what the actual ruling should be.

 

[atxrocker]

Who on earth sets blind picks by leaning so far forward that they stand on their toes?

spurs appearantly

 

[Ryle]

technically though, if the defender is the one who initiates the contact, is it a foul? unlike last year where horry clearly went after nash, in this situation west ran into horry. and while horry really laid it into him by leaning forward, he was stationary and west ran into him, so i'm not sure what the actual ruling should be.

Whorey wasn't stationary and West was actually jumping in the air when cheap shot bob put his forearms into the small of his back.

Wouldn't mind someone doing the same to that a-hole.

 

[Bibby_10]

^ Why?

I understand why you would want LA to win (hell they are the lakers), but why not SA?

They exemplify everything a team should be. Selfless, hard working, smart, and Champions. You could not ask anymore from a group of ball players.

Really? I had no idea dirty plays and flopping around like fish out of water exemplified what a team should be. I got into basketball because of my dad who was a huge Jordan/Bulls fan. I always thought that was what a team should be. I must have been mistaken.

 

[Gargamel]

Whorey wasn't stationary and West was actually jumping in the air when cheap shot bob put his forearms into the small of his back.

Wouldn't mind someone doing the same to that a-hole.

Mason already took care of that an eon ago. I imagine the Hornets supporters' heads would explode Scanners style if he did to West what Mase did to him. We are a lot more sensitive to contact in today's Meek New League.

 

[Bibby_10]

Mason already took care of that an eon ago. I imagine the Hornets supporters' heads would explode Scanners style if he did to West what Mase did to him. We are a lot more sensitive to contact in today's Meek New League.

I personally don't mind physical play, which is why I like players like Artest. My only problem with the play was that West had an injured back. Horry knew this and made his move accordingly. I would have been just as upset had Harpring pulled something similar on Kobe in game 5.

 

[Gargamel]

Really? I had no idea dirty plays and flopping around like fish out of water exemplified what a team should be.

I think it's more that they've been top 3 in points allowed and opp FG% since forever ago. Whatever else they are, that's impressive. Good offense can happen with the right personnel, tough defense takes commitment. And, yes, I'm sick of them being at or near the top for 10 yrs. But still...

 

[Gargamel]

I personally don't mind physical play, which is why I like players like Artest. My only problem with the play was that West had an injured back. Horry knew this and made his move accordingly. I would have been just as upset had Harpring pulled something similar on Kobe in game 5.

That's true. I actually think highly of Artest's defense because he doesn't resort to the pitter-patter and bumping of Harpring or the happy feet of Bowen.

Re: Horry, he's on the dark side now, afaic, and we don't tend to remember him that much as an ex-Lkr. I don't remember him doing anything malicious in the early years except for a towel to Ainge's mug, but I admit he's been an opportunist in both the Nash and West situations. While it didn't take much for me to get over each incident, it does suggest that VladeFan21 has a valid point about SA using more and more parlor tricks out of fear. It could bite them in the arse too, West is a "point prover" type of guy who keys off of external stuff. Even back when, he had a running media feud in college with Maxiell.

 

[VF21]

Laker fan on a Kings site arguing against a Spurs fan and in favor of a Kings fan rooting for the Hornets and against the Lakers and Spurs while, myself, temporarily rooting for the Hornets and against the Jazz and Spurs, but hopefully rooting against the Hornets in the near future.

Now I'm scared... I actually followed the logic there.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Horry leaves mark on West, Hornets

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-hornetssoursgamesix051608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

OK....so I didn't see the 2nd half of the game or the play in question live. I've pretty much got my info from your posts and the attached article. I don't think there should be too much shock or surprise to see a play like that from a guy like Horry. It wasn't the worst thing I have ever seen, but cheap, none the less.

What I find most apalling is the fact the Spurs fans were chanting his name and apparently cheering over the play. Classless and despicable. Game 7 is going to be a war, and I HOPE New Orleans wins this thing in the same manner Boston won game 7 over the Hawks.

 

[Jerryaki]

Whorey wasn't stationary and West was actually jumping in the air when cheap shot bob put his forearms into the small of his back.

but do the rules take into account that a defender jumped into (i.e. initiated contact) to the pick?

 

[Superman]

technically though, if the defender is the one who initiates the contact, is it a foul? unlike last year where horry clearly went after nash, in this situation west ran into horry. and while horry really laid it into him by leaning forward, he was stationary and west ran into him, so i'm not sure what the actual ruling should be.

The fact that he was leaning forward means that he wasn't in position to get the call.

If you're leaning forward that far trying to draw a charge in the lane, you won't get the call.

I'm actually starting to be ashamed of my support for the Spurs earlier in the playoffs. I still have a lot of respect for most of the team, and even for Popovich, despite the intentional fouling. I still think a lot of the criticism of the Spurs is unfounded, and think that the conspiracy theories about the League wanting the Spurs to do well are utterly ridiculous. But the way they've been playing dirty and employing cheap tactics in the playoffs is putting me off.

 

[Dave McNulla]

Yeah, how dare West writhe on the floor in pain?

Horry takes cheap shots. This isn't his first ... and it most likely won't be his last. How much of a coincidence can it be that Robert Horry is involved in both the Nash-into-the-scorer's table incident AND this one?

Sorry, Spurs fan, but your team delights in taking cheap shots. And it's not what the game is all about.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HUh1kJLrYu8

watch the video before you make up accusations. you're high if you think that was even a foul, much less a dirty foul.

 

[Dave McNulla]

Who on earth sets blind picks by leaning so far forward that they stand on their toes?

If Horry was just trying to set a regualr blind pick for Manu, he should have stood straight up like any other normal pick.

if you saw david west coming towards you, you would lean forward too. he was just bracing for the hit.

 

[Dave McNulla]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-hornetssoursgamesix051608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

OK....so I didn't see the 2nd half of the game or the play in question live. I've pretty much got my info from your posts and the attached article. I don't think there should be too much shock or surprise to see a play like that from a guy like Horry. It wasn't the worst thing I have ever seen, but cheap, none the less.

What I find most apalling is the fact the Spurs fans were chanting his name and apparently cheering over the play. Classless and despicable. Game 7 is going to be a war, and I HOPE New Orleans wins this thing in the same manner Boston won game 7 over the Hawks.

anybody who did that is a classless piece of garbage. and if you think that somebody in the city you live wouldn't do something like that, then you have a serious denial problem (or you live in a city of three people).

 

[Superman]

if you saw david west coming towards you, you would lean forward too. he was just bracing for the hit.

He moved into David West. He wasn't stationery, he wasn't bracing for the hit, he didn't try to get out of the way. It was an intentional shot on a player, from the back, no less, who was in a vulnerable position, and it was dirty.

It's okay for you to admit that. RC Buford won't come and revoke your fan card.

 

[C Diddy]

if you saw david west coming towards you, you would lean forward too. he was just bracing for the hit.

How many people brace for a hit by stepping up, leaning forward, dipping the shoulder, and getting up on their toes?

Its clear to anyone who doesn't view the world via gray and black glasses that he was preparing to deliver a hit, not brace for one.

 

[Dave McNulla]

How many people brace for a hit by stepping up, leaning forward, dipping the shoulder, and getting up on their toes?

Its clear to anyone who doesn't view the world via gray and black glasses that he was preparing to deliver a hit, not brace for one.

how many times have you been trampled by david west?

 

[Dave McNulla]

He moved into David West. He wasn't stationery, he wasn't bracing for the hit, he didn't try to get out of the way. It was an intentional shot on a player, from the back, no less, who was in a vulnerable position, and it was dirty.

It's okay for you to admit that. RC Buford won't come and revoke your fan card.

i was a fan way before buford was an assistant for the spurs (for larry brown).

it was a screen. those are all intentional hits from the back side unless the guy turns around. i'm sorry that he's hurt, but if his back was that bad, he should have sat out the game.

if you want to hate on people for playing physical, there are plenty of physical plays coming from the hornets and david west himself.

 

[C Diddy]

how many times have you been trampled by david west?

So because I've never been "trampled" by David West I'm not qualified to judge Horry's actions against West?

 

[Dave McNulla]

So because I've never been "trampled" by David West I'm not qualified to judge Horry's actions against West?

you have never been trampled by david west. your sense of how to brace yourself for that kind of impact has been affected.

don't get me wrong, i hope the league suspends horry for game 7. but that's not because he deserves it. it's because he sucks now.

 

[Superman]

i was a fan way before buford was an assistant for the spurs (for larry brown).

it was a screen. those are all intentional hits from the back side unless the guy turns around. i'm sorry that he's hurt, but if his back was that bad, he should have sat out the game.

if you want to hate on people for playing physical, there are plenty of physical plays coming from the hornets and david west himself.

It was more than a screen. It was more like a lead block. That type of play is even illegal in football.

I know you're not happy to see him hurt, and know that the Hornets have been playing physical. There's nothing wrong with physicality. What Robert Horry did was dirty.

And players play hurt all the time. I don't think they expect to be cut down like that, though. Even if he wasn't hurt, that would still have been a pretty painful hit, because he was in such a vulnerable situation. And what made it worse is that Horry stepped into it got on his toes to increase the effectiveness.

I've been defending the Spurs more than anyone else these playoffs, with a couple of exceptions (probably you and Slim). I defended them last season through the suspensions and the drama that brought. But that was a dirty play by Robert Horry. It was plainly a dirty play, whether West was already hurt or not.

 

[Kingzrool]

Backing into another player is not necessarily "trampling" them. Dave, do you really not see how biased your argument is? You are reaching for straws left and right.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm 100% with you on that VF. And I go on record saying that I would rather have the Los Angeles Lakers, yes the frieken Lakers win the title than this sorry piece of **** of a team.

Well, I hope you're happy...

 

[BMiller52]

Wait, you're a Hornets fan?

Not really but I like their team.

 

[Dave McNulla]

It was more than a screen. It was more like a lead block. That type of play is even illegal in football.

I know you're not happy to see him hurt, and know that the Hornets have been playing physical. There's nothing wrong with physicality. What Robert Horry did was dirty.

And players play hurt all the time. I don't think they expect to be cut down like that, though. Even if he wasn't hurt, that would still have been a pretty painful hit, because he was in such a vulnerable situation. And what made it worse is that Horry stepped into it got on his toes to increase the effectiveness.

I've been defending the Spurs more than anyone else these playoffs, with a couple of exceptions (probably you and Slim). I defended them last season through the suspensions and the drama that brought. But that was a dirty play by Robert Horry. It was plainly a dirty play, whether West was already hurt or not.

considering that horry's feet were planted and west was moving, i just can't see how anybody would consider that dirty. i looked at the replay over and over. there is nothing to it.

it doesn't matter how much you love or hate the spurs. the play stands for itself. west moved into horry. horry leaned a little bit forward to brace for a collision that he could see coming, but west was the guy moving even if it was backwards.