Artest for Howard
- Thread starter Kingsin07
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He was dumb for admitting that publicly in the middle of a playoff series, but if you're going to throw out guys who smoke pot from your team, good luck. Remember Webb's little violation a few years ago? This is no big deal.
That said, Howard actually isn't as young as people think, only a couple months younger than Ron if I recall correctly. I wouldn't mind seeing him here, but I could also see a three-way deal with Ron going to Dallas, Howard going to a third team (Toronto? Portland?) and us getting rebuilding pieces (Toronto: Ford/#17; Portland: #13/filler).
That said, Howard actually isn't as young as people think, only a couple months younger than Ron if I recall correctly. I wouldn't mind seeing him here, but I could also see a three-way deal with Ron going to Dallas, Howard going to a third team (Toronto? Portland?) and us getting rebuilding pieces (Toronto: Ford/#17; Portland: #13/filler).
Having been a fantasy owner of Josh Howard for the latter end of the fantasy season, I can say that he was a tale of different players this year--early on he was extremely hot and looking like the all star he was, looking extremely potent offensively, but towards the tail end he started bricking everything and extremely pathetic shooting nights became commonplace for him. I have a couple of crazy far off theories, such as the fact that I think he needs Devin Harris in order to truly thrive, because after Harris got traded he really went into a tailspin; another is that he's a one-on-one player to the nth degree--quite individual minded offensively, so when Kidd came in that was mutual destruction--Kidd couldn't adapt to the 1-on-1 play the Mavs already had instituted, and Josh Howard didn't know how to deal with Kidd's ball dominance because he also needed the ball. All that being said, I think Josh Howard's going to be traded this offseason, and it's quite sad, frankly; he was a huge surprise and looking next to untouchable his rookie year, then established himself into an all-star and then throws up bricks and bombs that ultimately have assured the Mavs' destruction. Highs and lows. Although his value is low, Howard can still get the Mavs a position of need based on his past accolades and offensive talent alone, even if he's awfully one or one-and-a-half dimensional at times with merely just scoring and rebounding. But the talent is there.
As for Artest, I don't I'd do the trade, actually. For starters, it's not like we need another SF, and as I said before, Howard is a ball-dominant one-on-one player at his best, and he's far from being an all-around player. If playing within a team/passing oriented system, I honestly don't think he'll thrive--his jumper is extremely streaky, and he needs to have a feel for the ball to get his confidence in his shot. Freak athleticism? It's not "freak", but more like power athleticism. He's not going to overwhelm anyone, although he certainly has enough to slash effectively. All that being said, I'd prefer minutes go to Garcia and Martin and perhaps Salmons if he stays. Howard's drug usage is the final straw that makes me say no on any trade for him.
As for Artest, I don't I'd do the trade, actually. For starters, it's not like we need another SF, and as I said before, Howard is a ball-dominant one-on-one player at his best, and he's far from being an all-around player. If playing within a team/passing oriented system, I honestly don't think he'll thrive--his jumper is extremely streaky, and he needs to have a feel for the ball to get his confidence in his shot. Freak athleticism? It's not "freak", but more like power athleticism. He's not going to overwhelm anyone, although he certainly has enough to slash effectively. All that being said, I'd prefer minutes go to Garcia and Martin and perhaps Salmons if he stays. Howard's drug usage is the final straw that makes me say no on any trade for him.
I think Josh Howard is basically a rich man's John Salmons. Good length, dangerous driving to the basket, but his jumpshot isn't reliable and there's questions about whether he makes his teammates better. Add to that there's now questions about his competitive drive and desire to improve, and I don't think you have a player worth taking a chance on. I'm glad he's Dallas' problem right now, I wouldn't be in a hurry to make him ours. Though I suppose a lot of people would say the same about Artest.
Yes, I do remember the whole scenario with Webber, apparently better than you do... If you're talking about the suspension, the reason was never made public. But there were rumors around the water cooler that it WASN'T about marijuana but about using prednisone, a pain-killing steroid.
And for the record? I didn't say throw him out, did I? You may not think it's a big deal and that's fine but I strongly doubt if the Maloofs are in the mood to deal with anyone right now who is stupid enough to make those kind of comments in public. They already have enough problems...
And for the record? I didn't say throw him out, did I? You may not think it's a big deal and that's fine but I strongly doubt if the Maloofs are in the mood to deal with anyone right now who is stupid enough to make those kind of comments in public. They already have enough problems...
Yeah, I should have just said the "drug stigma" surrounding Webber. In any case, I don't mean to be seeing as jumping on VF, as she said at the end of her post that she could "live with" the deal. While I don't want to get into a debate about the pros/cons of smoking pot here, but I don't think the Howard thing is a bid deal at all. If anything, we, or some other smart team, should take advantage of this "incident" if it lowers his value and get him on the cheap.
Josh Howard is not an idiot. He said that he and a lot of others smoke weed in the off-season. That makes him honest. I actually respect him for being so honest. Webber on the other hand has cheated by taking money and smoked weed and lied about both. I don't really care that CWebb did either one of these. I am just wondering why we would start the moral judgments at this point when one of the great kings heroes had plenty of moral short-comings. I want to watch good b-ball. I expect nothing else from these guys.
I actually kind of like the idea of the trade.
I actually kind of like the idea of the trade.
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The smoking weed part doesn't make him an idiot; him talking about it makes him an idiot and potentially getting himself in trouble makes him an idiot. Do you have to divulge personal information in order to be honest? No, you don't; you say no comment. And he's a jerk because he ratted on other players, even if he didn't name names he's hurting the reputation of all nba players by saying that.
Absolutely! No way I want a player who doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut. We have one of those. It's one thing to open your mouth and look stupid, which is what we have. It's altogether worse when you hurt other players, your team, and the NBA.
BTW - I just agreed with Vlade4GM. I don't know if that's ever happened before. Ack!!
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You have it turned around. If anything he is an idiot for smoking weed because it is bad for your health and it is against the law. I am personally glad that he has brought the pot smoking in the NBA into the light. He is kind of like Canseco 'yeah I did it and the drug problem is rappant.' The two are also similar because they are both kind of idiots, I guess - but not for being honest in this situation.
I guess people would rather keep the issue swept under the rug?
I guess people would rather keep the issue swept under the rug?
There's no particular age advantage here (which stuck me as odd too -- I would have guessed about 26), and Ron, at his best, is the bigger impact player. Howard is right there at about Kevin's level as one of those guys who really illustrates the difference between a star and a Star. Josh is the former.
And that said, you still do it for the sake of stability. Howard won't win you games, but he'll win his matchup more nights than not and will always have serious value to other teams if you do decide to move him. He's a much more reasonable piece to use in trade than our collection of over the hill or over the loon unmoveables.
And that said, you still do it for the sake of stability. Howard won't win you games, but he'll win his matchup more nights than not and will always have serious value to other teams if you do decide to move him. He's a much more reasonable piece to use in trade than our collection of over the hill or over the loon unmoveables.
Pot really isn't that bad for your health as long as you don't do it excessively, but I'm not going to call him an idiot for smoking pot. Is it against the law and the rules of the NBA? Sure, but it's not idiotic to break the law (if you're getting away with it); is it wrong? That's a different issue. However it IS idiotic to be doing something against the rules of your job and the law and then tell the world you're doing it. That's idiotic.
Two things about the Canseco comparison. One, it doesn't do Howard any favors since Canseco is a jackass who would sell out the trust of anyone he knew to make money. Two, you're comparing steroids to pot; think about that comparison really hard.
Also, he's no crusader, especially when he was basically justifying it's usage and acting like it wasn't a big deal. He spilled it on anothers because once he revealed he did it, he didn't want to seem like the lone pothead so he said it was commonplace in the NBA.
Two things about the Canseco comparison. One, it doesn't do Howard any favors since Canseco is a jackass who would sell out the trust of anyone he knew to make money. Two, you're comparing steroids to pot; think about that comparison really hard.
Also, he's no crusader, especially when he was basically justifying it's usage and acting like it wasn't a big deal. He spilled it on anothers because once he revealed he did it, he didn't want to seem like the lone pothead so he said it was commonplace in the NBA.
summed it up perfectly. im guessing the majority of people that say weed is bad has only heard it from someone else, without research at all. the banning of marijuana as law here in the united states is most to do with politics and a platform to stand on more than anything else. many countries outside of the united states employ decriminalization, and some legalization of it, and statistics show no correlation with crime, health, anything really. basically, it doesnt harm a thing.
but i digress, i think the big thing is that he said everyone else does it too. i dont doubt the truthfulness of that statement, but if he said it, he should have left it on himself. theres no reason to throw everyone else in with you. speak for yourself, and take your own consequences.
but i digress, i think the big thing is that he said everyone else does it too. i dont doubt the truthfulness of that statement, but if he said it, he should have left it on himself. theres no reason to throw everyone else in with you. speak for yourself, and take your own consequences.
I'm not sure what kind of research you mean. Real life, or classroom. Here's my story. Take it for what its worth. I grew up with a friend. His name was Don. We met at age 8 for me and 6 for him. He was my best friend in life. After I had done my tour in the marine corps, and he had done his in the air force, we got together in sacramento and shared an apartment.
Don was totally caught up in politics and the unfairness of life in the real world. He started hanging around with people of like kind. He also started smoking pot. I won't say that I never tried it, because I did. It just wasn't for me. I'm one of those silly people who wants to be in control of his faculties at all times.
He started acting stranger and stranger and became more of a recluse. I tried talking to him, but to no avail. Finally, one day I came home, and my television set and various items were missing. I found out later, he had sold them to buy drugs. It was all downhill from there, and needless to say, we parted ways. It was hard for me. He was my best friend, and I didn't know him anymore. And, he didn't care. Only I cared. Three years later, he was dead from an overdose. So please don't tell me that something is harmless thats not. Some people are fine with it. But people with an addictive nature can have big problems, sometimes with deadly consequences. Thats as much research as I care to do on the subject.
Don was totally caught up in politics and the unfairness of life in the real world. He started hanging around with people of like kind. He also started smoking pot. I won't say that I never tried it, because I did. It just wasn't for me. I'm one of those silly people who wants to be in control of his faculties at all times.
He started acting stranger and stranger and became more of a recluse. I tried talking to him, but to no avail. Finally, one day I came home, and my television set and various items were missing. I found out later, he had sold them to buy drugs. It was all downhill from there, and needless to say, we parted ways. It was hard for me. He was my best friend, and I didn't know him anymore. And, he didn't care. Only I cared. Three years later, he was dead from an overdose. So please don't tell me that something is harmless thats not. Some people are fine with it. But people with an addictive nature can have big problems, sometimes with deadly consequences. Thats as much research as I care to do on the subject.
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