what purpose does he serve on this team? alot of posters in this forum wouldnt trade him. unless it was for an offer we couldnt refuse like a KG or something. but why is he the most "untouchable" player on the roster? no one cared about bibby and no one cares about artest and only a few care about miller. martin is a 2nd or 3rd option. he really cant create for himself if someone else is taking the majority of the shots and he cant get himself involved in a game the way kobe or wade can. martin is just like bibby. as far as a 2nd option player. but bibby is a big game player. there's no way this team is headed to the finals with martin being the best player on the team.
kevin martin discussion
- Thread starter tyrant
- Start date
As much as I like Martin and how much he's developed over the years, he's not a true #1 option as many here would like to think. He's a wonderful compliment to a true #1 because he doesn't need many shots to get his points, but he is not someone to build a team around. If the right offer came along I don't see how he'd be untouchable.
I will try and be civil, although I will find it difficult. You seem to lack understanding of how a team should rebuild. I also fail to see a point to this thread. I will try to give my reasons;
Martin has improved each year, he is young at 25 years old, he has a huge work ethic, he is a great person as well as player. He hasn't any major flaws like Mike (long contract, old, declining) or Ron (Unstable - could explode) or Brad (same as Mike). Why would anyone want to get rid of Kevin? He is young, exciting and relatively cheap (next season). I don't believe anyone has ever said he'll be a number one option on a championship team. But I think he can make a good no.2 option. As far as your "He's the 3rd option here" argument, I disagree. Offensively, Kevin is our best player. I don't think Kev can be utilised properly while Ron is here. I constantly read in VFs PBP threads "Martin wide open but Ron/whoever completely ignores him". Kevin, offensivel, is our best option on this team.
Martin is proving to be a clutch player, he's hit some big shots throughout his young career. I see no reason to trade him, and that's why he's as "untouchable" as it gets on the Kings roster.
Martin has improved each year, he is young at 25 years old, he has a huge work ethic, he is a great person as well as player. He hasn't any major flaws like Mike (long contract, old, declining) or Ron (Unstable - could explode) or Brad (same as Mike). Why would anyone want to get rid of Kevin? He is young, exciting and relatively cheap (next season). I don't believe anyone has ever said he'll be a number one option on a championship team. But I think he can make a good no.2 option. As far as your "He's the 3rd option here" argument, I disagree. Offensively, Kevin is our best player. I don't think Kev can be utilised properly while Ron is here. I constantly read in VFs PBP threads "Martin wide open but Ron/whoever completely ignores him". Kevin, offensivel, is our best option on this team.
Martin is proving to be a clutch player, he's hit some big shots throughout his young career. I see no reason to trade him, and that's why he's as "untouchable" as it gets on the Kings roster.
He's the #1 option on this team.
But yah, I agree, he is that type of player who hits open shots, and slices to the basket, but not someone you would want as a #1 option on a championship team.
the part I don't agree with though is you don't trade a talent like Martin away unless you are getting something damn good in return. He is so dang efficient. He gets to the line at will, and can turn a bad FT team into a good one just by having him on the team! No reason to trade a guy like Martin...
The tandem that works out there is Martin/Garcia. Ever watch those two play together? It's a pretty sight. They compliment each other VERY well. Even better is Beno/Martin/Garcia. Those three could become the nucleus to a decent starting lineup.
But yah, I agree, he is that type of player who hits open shots, and slices to the basket, but not someone you would want as a #1 option on a championship team.
the part I don't agree with though is you don't trade a talent like Martin away unless you are getting something damn good in return. He is so dang efficient. He gets to the line at will, and can turn a bad FT team into a good one just by having him on the team! No reason to trade a guy like Martin...
The tandem that works out there is Martin/Garcia. Ever watch those two play together? It's a pretty sight. They compliment each other VERY well. Even better is Beno/Martin/Garcia. Those three could become the nucleus to a decent starting lineup.
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K. Martin - Not a franchise player, but a difference maker.
Kevin Martin is good and he is getting better. He and Artest are probably the only two players on our roster that are excellent athletes by NBA standards. Although I like Ron, Kevin's attitude makes him much more of a keeper. He can not create his own shots. But if he is ever on a team that is fast paced or runs a crisp half-court offense, he could average 25 points per game. Martin is a gazelle. Hopefully at some point we will have a point guard that can run with him.
Bibby could never average 25 points per game. I think that Bibby's clutch abilities are a bit overstated. I think that he is a clutch 2nd or 3rd option. If someone else creates and Bibby is open, he is pretty money. But I would hate to rely on Bibby to create a shot (for himself or others) in crunch time.
Kevin is not untradeable. It is just unrealistic to think that you could get anything near his value in a trade.
Kevin Martin is good and he is getting better. He and Artest are probably the only two players on our roster that are excellent athletes by NBA standards. Although I like Ron, Kevin's attitude makes him much more of a keeper. He can not create his own shots. But if he is ever on a team that is fast paced or runs a crisp half-court offense, he could average 25 points per game. Martin is a gazelle. Hopefully at some point we will have a point guard that can run with him.
Bibby could never average 25 points per game. I think that Bibby's clutch abilities are a bit overstated. I think that he is a clutch 2nd or 3rd option. If someone else creates and Bibby is open, he is pretty money. But I would hate to rely on Bibby to create a shot (for himself or others) in crunch time.
Kevin is not untradeable. It is just unrealistic to think that you could get anything near his value in a trade.
Who was the #1 option on the Spurs championship team last season? Duncan on the inside, but without quick Parker and clutch Ginobli they would not have won it all. The year before it was Shaq and D-Wade teaming up to deliver the title. It always takes at least two big-time stars combining efforts to win a championship and the Kings will need a second fiddle to K-Mart - but he's a very valuable piece.
duncan is the reason parker and manu are as good as they are. you cant let duncan play one on one. he'd slaughter your interior. wade is just sick. shaq was already on the decline but wade became kobe that series against dallas. i would say martin will be 2nd fiddle to whatever allstar we hopefully get. martin is good no doubt. but it cant be built around him. it just cant
Honestly, I don't think there are many people here that think Kevin is the superstar you build a team around. However, you don't get by on one superstar, either (see Cavaliers). If we get lucky enough to grab a superstar, though, I sure won't mind having Kevin alongside him. I see no point in trading Kevin, but would have no problem trading him for the right deal for the team going forward. I just don't know what that would be right now.
It's simple, really. Look at our stats by position for the last few years, in detail. Our PFs are routinely trashed by whoever the opponent is, and this year our PGs are doing much the same -- those positions are losing us our games. The other positions are about neutral, except for SG, where lo and behold, our SG outscores opponents by about 3.5 ppg. Bibby's gone, Ron is all but gone, and Brad is old, so basically we're looking at Kevin as the only young player we have who is an above average NBA starter.
It's as simple as that. Nobody's untouchable, but he's young and above average, which can't be said about anyone else on the roster.
It's as simple as that. Nobody's untouchable, but he's young and above average, which can't be said about anyone else on the roster.
Kevin will never be the #1 option on a championship team. So trade him?
You actually do need #2 and #3 options on a championship team you know. Tallent like he has is difficult to obtain in the NBA. He is currently the Kings tallent and it would be stupid of them let him go for anything short of an elite player.
And to even imply that he is the third option on this team is nothing short of insulting to him and his work ethic IMO.
You actually do need #2 and #3 options on a championship team you know. Tallent like he has is difficult to obtain in the NBA. He is currently the Kings tallent and it would be stupid of them let him go for anything short of an elite player.
And to even imply that he is the third option on this team is nothing short of insulting to him and his work ethic IMO.
What Kevin does on this team is score efficiently and for a reasonable contract. He is Peja part 2 along with weak help defense, fading in games and adequate rebounding. He is also BYC next year so it is almost impossible that he will be traded.
Also if Brad is traded expect his production to take a hit, along with everyone else on the team.
Also if Brad is traded expect his production to take a hit, along with everyone else on the team.
Kevin "Mr. Smooth" Martin
Martin is a special player who has shown marked improvement each year; it is yet to be seen how special Kevin "Mr. Smooth" Martin will be, but we know that we have seen the peak of performance from Ron Artest, Mike Bibby, and Brad Miller. Should Mr. Smooth be untouchable? No and he is not, but he certainly does not need to be thrown out for ending contracts as the Kings rebuild; he is young enough to fit into future plans.
Is he/should he be the number one option? For right now, yeah. When teams focus on Mr. Smooth, which is certainly a big part of the game plan, players like Ron Artest, Francisco Garcia, John Salmons, Brad Miller, and Beno Udrih take full advantage of Mr. Smooths willingness and ability to create shots for his teammates making the Kings a much better team overall. When the focus is Ron Artest is the focus of the offense, he tends to shoot a lot of threes instead of passing the ball; that would be fine if he were a good three point shooter... this makes the Kings far less effective.
Let's face facts, until a big move is made, Mr Smooth is the face of the Kings.
Martin is a special player who has shown marked improvement each year; it is yet to be seen how special Kevin "Mr. Smooth" Martin will be, but we know that we have seen the peak of performance from Ron Artest, Mike Bibby, and Brad Miller. Should Mr. Smooth be untouchable? No and he is not, but he certainly does not need to be thrown out for ending contracts as the Kings rebuild; he is young enough to fit into future plans.
Is he/should he be the number one option? For right now, yeah. When teams focus on Mr. Smooth, which is certainly a big part of the game plan, players like Ron Artest, Francisco Garcia, John Salmons, Brad Miller, and Beno Udrih take full advantage of Mr. Smooths willingness and ability to create shots for his teammates making the Kings a much better team overall. When the focus is Ron Artest is the focus of the offense, he tends to shoot a lot of threes instead of passing the ball; that would be fine if he were a good three point shooter... this makes the Kings far less effective.
Let's face facts, until a big move is made, Mr Smooth is the face of the Kings.
If we could get Hawes to develop into a Brad Miller type player, which the writing is on the wall, don't you think that would do wonders for Martin's continued develop and success??. He, like Bibby plays very well with a passing big man. So if we can manage a smooth transition from Brad to Spencer a la Vlade to Brad, Martin will continue to be a solid offensive threat. Also if we resign Beno, he could be a great PG for this team, he is a good leader on the floor and looks to pass before he shoots. He has a decent jumper which also makes him seem to be a important player in the Kings rebuild!
Martin is much better than I ever expected. He has occasional huge games. He doesn't show up every night, though. I don't see him drawing double teams and I don't see him as an All Star in terms of being an all around player. Umm, someone mentioned Worthy....and he's not even close to being that kind of player. Not close. I think at this point he's about at Peja's level when he was at his best (when Webber missed 1/2 season and the Kings were the best team in the NBA) and time will tell if he moves forward.
His position is stockpiled on the Kings. In terms of trading him, I don't really see how he could take another team over the top so don't think he's much a trading piece. He's a nice player to root for and have, but the team would be just as good with Salmons or Garcia playing full time IMO. Both of them can do more than score which put them at his level as players.
His position is stockpiled on the Kings. In terms of trading him, I don't really see how he could take another team over the top so don't think he's much a trading piece. He's a nice player to root for and have, but the team would be just as good with Salmons or Garcia playing full time IMO. Both of them can do more than score which put them at his level as players.
Worthy was a #3 gun, not #2. And he was also one of the best defenders in the league at his position in those days.
Kevin is a lot like Peja -- doesn't do enough to be a great #2, but would make a helluva #3 if you could somehow find two guys better than him. Unfortunately, like Peja, that's just hard to acquire.
As far as trading him...what would be the point? The love affair stuff involving him is the same ick that infested Peja worship at its peak, but he's still your best young player, and a young 20ppg+ scorer. For a true superstar? Sure. Instantly. And no regrets. You need look no further than Miwaulkee to see where a Kevin style player as #1 option will get you. But trading him just to trade him isn't going to get you anywhere. You need to plant your feet somewhere and be able to say "this we have, now let's go get the rest". And what we have is our starting OG, and our #2/#3 weapon. So now you try to fix the rest.
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