Martin: All-star material?
- Thread starter Fresno King
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I will give you Nash, Kobe, and Paul. Even though Paul, and Nash aren't SGs they are playing better imo.
Point guards mean more to teams than shooting guards so it's hard to compare Williams, and Martin. I believe they are pretty much a wash in overall talent, but you take Williams off the Jazz, and they would suck again. Martin on the other hand wouldn't make as big of deal if out. That's why it's too hard to compare unless you look at straight talent vs. talent.
Now Iverson is getting a bit old. Talent wise I think it's a wash as well. Martin is getting better and AI is getting older. You can make an argument that if K-Mart got 19-20 shots a game he would be averaging 30.
Baron Davis is in the same boat as Williams. Cannot compare the two unless you go by talent. Talent wise they are about the same imo.
But the nod should go to Paul, Kobe, and Nash over K-Mart, but if he wasn't injured you definitely could make the argument that K-Mart is an all-star. Definitely.
EDIT: Roy, and Gay are having good years. Roy is a stud... Even though he is only averaging 19ppg I would put him in the same category as K-Mart because of talent level. Gay not yet.
Point guards mean more to teams than shooting guards so it's hard to compare Williams, and Martin. I believe they are pretty much a wash in overall talent, but you take Williams off the Jazz, and they would suck again. Martin on the other hand wouldn't make as big of deal if out. That's why it's too hard to compare unless you look at straight talent vs. talent.
Now Iverson is getting a bit old. Talent wise I think it's a wash as well. Martin is getting better and AI is getting older. You can make an argument that if K-Mart got 19-20 shots a game he would be averaging 30.
Baron Davis is in the same boat as Williams. Cannot compare the two unless you go by talent. Talent wise they are about the same imo.
But the nod should go to Paul, Kobe, and Nash over K-Mart, but if he wasn't injured you definitely could make the argument that K-Mart is an all-star. Definitely.
EDIT: Roy, and Gay are having good years. Roy is a stud... Even though he is only averaging 19ppg I would put him in the same category as K-Mart because of talent level. Gay not yet.
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That's total opinion. You will find a lot of people that don't agree with that statement.
I believe they are about the same talent wise. they both can do ridiculous things to help their teams win games. K-Mart gets to the line like a mad man. We all saw what happened when he was out.. The shots went WAY down from the FT stripe.
But as for who's better you really can't say at this point. I am not going one way or another. I will say they are both up and coming, and leave it at that.
I believe they are about the same talent wise. they both can do ridiculous things to help their teams win games. K-Mart gets to the line like a mad man. We all saw what happened when he was out.. The shots went WAY down from the FT stripe.
But as for who's better you really can't say at this point. I am not going one way or another. I will say they are both up and coming, and leave it at that.
No, not in the West. He's still just a scorer, and a scorer on a losing team. There are about only about 5 guards on an All-Star team (per conference).
In the West these are the guys above Kevin for a variety of reasons (and notably a healthy part of that is that they are all on winning playoff bound teams):
Kobe
A.I.
Nash
CP3
Baron
TMac
Roy
Deron
Parker
Manu
If we get ever start winning, Kevin can compete with the last 3 or 4 names on that list, but not the core superstars near the top.
I think Kevin will make an All Star team someday (barring injury), but not while working in obscurity to shoot buzzer beaters to beat 9-35 teams. When we matter again, he'll get real consideration as one of the second tier guys, same way Peja did, same way Rashard Lewis did when the Sonics sprnag up to win 50 a few years back.
In the West these are the guys above Kevin for a variety of reasons (and notably a healthy part of that is that they are all on winning playoff bound teams):
Kobe
A.I.
Nash
CP3
Baron
TMac
Roy
Deron
Parker
Manu
If we get ever start winning, Kevin can compete with the last 3 or 4 names on that list, but not the core superstars near the top.
I think Kevin will make an All Star team someday (barring injury), but not while working in obscurity to shoot buzzer beaters to beat 9-35 teams. When we matter again, he'll get real consideration as one of the second tier guys, same way Peja did, same way Rashard Lewis did when the Sonics sprnag up to win 50 a few years back.
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With winning record You would have
Kobe, Nash, Paul, Iverson, Davis
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Rudy Gay puts up numbers for a team that really doesn't have anybody else playing his postion. Besides, I think Kevin is a better player. Rudy shoots lots and lots of threes.
Brandon Roy and Kevin are in the same mold, I just think Kevin is better at doing what they both do. Roy is just playing for a team where all their best players aren't swingmen.
Parker and Ginobli, I can't endorse either of them over Kevin. Parker would be trash on a lot of other teams. Ginobli is good in small doses, but I can't really say he'd be as good in Kevins place on this team.
I'd love to have Deron Williams, but he is not a better basketball player than Kevin.
Kobe, Nash, Paul, Iverson, Davis
fixed
Rudy Gay puts up numbers for a team that really doesn't have anybody else playing his postion. Besides, I think Kevin is a better player. Rudy shoots lots and lots of threes.
Brandon Roy and Kevin are in the same mold, I just think Kevin is better at doing what they both do. Roy is just playing for a team where all their best players aren't swingmen.
Parker and Ginobli, I can't endorse either of them over Kevin. Parker would be trash on a lot of other teams. Ginobli is good in small doses, but I can't really say he'd be as good in Kevins place on this team.
I'd love to have Deron Williams, but he is not a better basketball player than Kevin.
Oh I rather suspect that roughly 30 out of 30 NBA GMs would quibble with that.
As for Roy -- much different role, and the critical thing that might make Roy more valuable (at this time). He creates, runs the team, makes the bid decisions and makes teammates better. You can tell a lot about a perimeter player by looking at that third line (assists). Not everything to be sure, but its always a good initial cut at who is the engine on a team.
As for Roy -- much different role, and the critical thing that might make Roy more valuable (at this time). He creates, runs the team, makes the bid decisions and makes teammates better. You can tell a lot about a perimeter player by looking at that third line (assists). Not everything to be sure, but its always a good initial cut at who is the engine on a team.
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Just because point guard is a harder postion to fill with a good player does not mean Deron is a better player than Kevin. When we talk about skill and knowledge of the game, I think I would take Kevin. And this isn't me being a homer either. I would take Deron over a lot of other point guards, including Nash and Tony Parker.
So I would imagine that means Kevin > Nash too????
Yes, it really does sound like you being a homer.
Things that Kevin Martin does definitely better than Deron Williams:
1) draw fouls
2) shoot FTs
List ended. And as Deron is his team's floor general, a better passer, better ballhandler, and shoots 52% from the field as a guard, I have no idea how we're going to build Kevin up far enough to be more skilled and have better knowledge of the game. Better knack for scoring I'll go for.
Yes, it really does sound like you being a homer.
Things that Kevin Martin does definitely better than Deron Williams:
1) draw fouls
2) shoot FTs
List ended. And as Deron is his team's floor general, a better passer, better ballhandler, and shoots 52% from the field as a guard, I have no idea how we're going to build Kevin up far enough to be more skilled and have better knowledge of the game. Better knack for scoring I'll go for.
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