The OAO Trade Ron Artest to the Knicks thread
- Thread starter NewArena
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Exatly...LMAO at Marc Berman as he attempts to GM the Knicks from his journalist position at the post. The guy has been on Artest bandwagon for months or even years trying to get Ron Ron to the MSG. There is absolutely ZERO validity to anything written by Marc Berman in regards to bring Ron Artest to NY.
Agreed.
Artest + Thomas
to NY for
Lee + Curry + Chandler + Jones + (#1 pick maybe)
Trade works:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...90~1718~2772&teams=18~18~23~23~23~23&te=&cash=
Taking on Curry's salary would seem like a big mistake at first glance. But with a few minutes to digest the situation, it doesn't seem that bad at all. If Hawes is the future Center of the Kings, it will take him 2-3 years before he reaches his potential. Bringing Curry in would be taking a chance on a 25 year old big, who is actually a big. He can be phased to the bench when Hawes earns the right to take over the starting position. Meanwhile Miller, who looks very rejuvinated, can be traded for other young pieces + expirings + draft pick.
Dumping Kenny Thomas would be a delight in and of itself. Replacing him with Lee would be a godsend. Lee may or may not be in the future of the Kings, but there is certainly flexibility there. I think Lee would work well in Theus' system. He doesn't need the ball very much, which means more shots to go around for our greedy guards and guard-forwards. All of a sudden our frontcourt would have decent size, and despite the apparant lack of defense, would give us a great rebounding edge. Instead of using our PG, SG and SF positions to rebound, we will be using our PF and C positions to rebound, so our smaller guys can get out on the fast break.
Fred Jones is an expiring, and would basically replace Dahntay Jones as the temporary KMart replacement. He could stick around for the rest of the year if we make more trades, or we could dump him. Wilson Chandler isn't anything special, but he makes the salaries work out. Unfortunately NY doesn't have many exprings to work with, so a KT dump would have to include some longer contracts. Chandler's is only for 2 years @ 1 Mil, which is much more pallatable than KT's contract. And considering he is 20 years old, he has some potential upside too.
It wouldn't be a bad move for us, but there would definitely need to be some more moves afterward. Move Bibby, Miller and SAR along with this trade and we will have significantly quickened our rebuild.
Artest + Thomas
to NY for
Lee + Curry + Chandler + Jones + (#1 pick maybe)
Trade works:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...90~1718~2772&teams=18~18~23~23~23~23&te=&cash=
Taking on Curry's salary would seem like a big mistake at first glance. But with a few minutes to digest the situation, it doesn't seem that bad at all. If Hawes is the future Center of the Kings, it will take him 2-3 years before he reaches his potential. Bringing Curry in would be taking a chance on a 25 year old big, who is actually a big. He can be phased to the bench when Hawes earns the right to take over the starting position. Meanwhile Miller, who looks very rejuvinated, can be traded for other young pieces + expirings + draft pick.
Dumping Kenny Thomas would be a delight in and of itself. Replacing him with Lee would be a godsend. Lee may or may not be in the future of the Kings, but there is certainly flexibility there. I think Lee would work well in Theus' system. He doesn't need the ball very much, which means more shots to go around for our greedy guards and guard-forwards. All of a sudden our frontcourt would have decent size, and despite the apparant lack of defense, would give us a great rebounding edge. Instead of using our PG, SG and SF positions to rebound, we will be using our PF and C positions to rebound, so our smaller guys can get out on the fast break.
Fred Jones is an expiring, and would basically replace Dahntay Jones as the temporary KMart replacement. He could stick around for the rest of the year if we make more trades, or we could dump him. Wilson Chandler isn't anything special, but he makes the salaries work out. Unfortunately NY doesn't have many exprings to work with, so a KT dump would have to include some longer contracts. Chandler's is only for 2 years @ 1 Mil, which is much more pallatable than KT's contract. And considering he is 20 years old, he has some potential upside too.
It wouldn't be a bad move for us, but there would definitely need to be some more moves afterward. Move Bibby, Miller and SAR along with this trade and we will have significantly quickened our rebuild.
Good god.. Yah, let's keep 4 SG/SF players and Mikki Moore at PF. The team needs rebounding, and Artest is going to probably walk at the end of the year. Let Isiah Thomas worry about this guy. Lee is EXACTLY what this team needs. Artest is not. I should post the 2nd chance points differential for this years team. Maybe that would change your mind. No GM in the world would Give you what you are asking for for Artest. Your GM skills leave much to be desired as well.
You don't keep a guy like Artest just because he is a "big name". You don't build a winner around a guy like Artest plus 4 other swing/wing players and nobody that can board. You are overrating Artest's effect on this Kings team. It's all about need. We need a rebounding player inside who will do the dirty work. That's Lee.
If I had 4 swing/wing type players and nobody that could do the work of a David Lee, than I would trade one of them. Artest is that someone since he does not really fit well with what the Kings are trying to do.
What's the worse that could happen with a guy like Lee? A rich mans Pollard off the bench who can spot start?
Pretty much;
Lee is younger
Lee plays a position we are weakest at
Lee is a better rebounder
Artest might leave for nothing so might as well get a position we need if the trade is available.
You don't keep a guy like Artest just because he is a "big name". You don't build a winner around a guy like Artest plus 4 other swing/wing players and nobody that can board. You are overrating Artest's effect on this Kings team. It's all about need. We need a rebounding player inside who will do the dirty work. That's Lee.
If I had 4 swing/wing type players and nobody that could do the work of a David Lee, than I would trade one of them. Artest is that someone since he does not really fit well with what the Kings are trying to do.
What's the worse that could happen with a guy like Lee? A rich mans Pollard off the bench who can spot start?
Pretty much;
Lee is younger
Lee plays a position we are weakest at
Lee is a better rebounder
Artest might leave for nothing so might as well get a position we need if the trade is available.
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Terrible is kind of harsh. Every PF we have is worse defensively except for Moore. Lee is a terrible shot blocker, I will give you that. Lee's foot movement on the defensive end lacks some, but he does take charges, he does get rebounds (meaning he is in position) and defensively he isn't THAT bad.
Thank god for league pass... Watching Lee this year he does play a bit off his opponent and does give up the midrange jump shot, but one thing he does not get is pushed a lot down low. If there was one thing I would improve on if I were Lee it is not giving the opposing player as much room as he does when the opposing PF is a jump shooter. But he does keep his position well. More athletic PFs can spin on him as well once they are in the block. He does not bite on pump fakes though (probably because he knows he can't block shots), and takes a charge pretty well.
Thank god for league pass... Watching Lee this year he does play a bit off his opponent and does give up the midrange jump shot, but one thing he does not get is pushed a lot down low. If there was one thing I would improve on if I were Lee it is not giving the opposing player as much room as he does when the opposing PF is a jump shooter. But he does keep his position well. More athletic PFs can spin on him as well once they are in the block. He does not bite on pump fakes though (probably because he knows he can't block shots), and takes a charge pretty well.
Agreed....I would love to have Lee but I don't ever want to make a trade at far below value for a guy. Other GM's will pick up on that and then start waiting out those type of GM's. Still, I wouldn't mind picking up a Lee and a Balkman in a deal.....but not Eddie Curry. No thanks on the big man. Yes he can score in the post but this is the same guy that got "d'ed" up by Artest when they played here. He's not a good rebounder or defender.
): NY 08 1st, Nate Robinson, and/or Balkman.
The Knicks to a man now seem eager to get out. Read 2 days ago that Balkman was in Thomas' doghouse. Never thought much of him anyway. But what it would take to swap them Artest is not going to be worth it or make Kings any better than what they look like they can become. Give it 5-10 more games which should get us Martin back and see if Salmons can indeed replace Artest.
But RonRon is a special guy with very special talents that help win games but he is not a game winner with his take-over style.
But RonRon is a special guy with very special talents that help win games but he is not a game winner with his take-over style.
And they are both undersized and would get killed by other big men on the defensive end. Who cares if they are better or much better than Mikki moore? That isnt saying much at all, say what you want about artest but there is no way in the world i would want to trade him for one power forward who is just pretty good in david lee, and for a tweener like Balkman just because they are better than our current big men. Who isnt better than Brad, Mikki and Kenny?
we'd need to extract lee, ender and a future 1st (lotto protected 1st year, top 5 protected 2nd year, 3rd year no protection) from NY for artest. knowing them, they'll end up in the lottery and we'll get a great pick. it would be nice to get a 2nd rounder also from em since they will probably be pretty high up there 2nd round also. i'd take their recent draft picks with the exception nate robinson.
Y
Look, i'm not sure if you've ever watched basketball or not, but Lee and Balkman are probably 2 of the most coveted young bigs in the league. I'm assuming you're a typical fan who doesn't watch basketball but looks up stats and measurables online. Lee is legit 6-9 and balkman is 6'8''. Now if you had ever seen balkman or lee play, you would not make those comments about their "lack" of size. Balkman is expected to be in the mold of a dennis rodman. Now if if the kings couldnt use one of the best finishers and rebounders in the league, then you're right...we shouldnt trade Artest for him. I have league pass, I watch a lot of games. If you get a chance, check out a knicks game when you get time. You'll see that it's not Lee or Balkman that suck, it's guys like Curry, Randolph, and others who don't play well
To call Balkman a big, means you have either, never seen him, or your blind. Balkman measured out at around 6' 6"s at the combine. Lee measured at 6' 8"s. Thats in their bare feet. Their both about an inch taller in their shoes. I'm a big fan of Lee's and I personally would trade him straight up for Artest. Balkman on the other hand has no offensive game at all except put backs. He has no outside shot at all and his 3pt percentage last year was .000. He's so good on a bad team that he can't even earn minutes this year.
Lee does NOT play good defense. He has a limited offensive game. He is a great rebounder. Balkman is not going to be a Rodman-type....unless that also means a guy with limited offensive game who hustles like crazy....then I guess he is a Rodman -type. He will never, ever be that good. He's not big enough, period. Balkman is a tweener, no matter how you slice it but that isn't necessarily a bad thing given the right pieces around him.
I've seen them both play and I would like either guy on the Kings but to say they are the most coveted young big men in the league...............no. Lee surely is someone any team would like as he doesn't need the ball and could fit in anywhere. Balkman as most coveted.....that is quite a stretch.
Artest is a top 20 player in the league.....can't saythe same thing about Lee or Balkman can you?
I've seen them both play and I would like either guy on the Kings but to say they are the most coveted young big men in the league...............no. Lee surely is someone any team would like as he doesn't need the ball and could fit in anywhere. Balkman as most coveted.....that is quite a stretch.
Artest is a top 20 player in the league.....can't saythe same thing about Lee or Balkman can you?
No, but you have to ask yourself something: Do we want to get some nice young guys in return or do we want to get nothing for him, when he'll walk at the end of the season?
I'd love to get Lee and Balkman back, but I think it's us that's asking too much, I don't think the Knicks are going to give both up to get him. It's not just talent we're talking about, it's the matter of Ron Artest.
Y
Why don't look up the hollinger statistics on player efficiency...Artest is 71st on the list. Oddly, david lee is 51sth.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...a&page=2&seasonType=2&qualCnt=60&qualIndex=61
Look, Artest is a good player. But he's not that good. Just because he had potential to be great and has some skills that may make him versatile does not mean he's a top 50 player in the NBA.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...a&page=2&seasonType=2&qualCnt=60&qualIndex=61
Look, Artest is a good player. But he's not that good. Just because he had potential to be great and has some skills that may make him versatile does not mean he's a top 50 player in the NBA.
Efficiency DOES NOT mean equate to how good a player is! Jason Kidd is at 80 on the list, J Oneal is at 75. Arenas is at 93. So you'd trade jason kidd for david lee? Like what the heck man those are dumb stats to be talking about. Jose Calderon is up there at #19, shall we trade Kevin Martin for him who's only at 27? Artest IS a top 50 player in the league.
Well, that response says alot.....Hollinger's is a purely stats based list that is unrealistic when comparing players. Ginobili is ranked 5, Kobe is 9 and Wade is 11....does that mean you think Ginobili is better than Kobe or Wade? TJ Ford is 18 and Calderon is 19 which is significantly higher than Deron Williams who is at 32. There is not one GM in the league that would choose those 2 guys over Deron Williams. To come back and state that Lee is better than Artest is really the most absurd thing I've read in a long, long time. One (Lee) is an after-thought on offense and plays average defense. The other (Artest) has the offense run through him in the post many times, creates for others and is largely recognized as one of the top defenders in the game, which by the way Hollinger's stats ranking does NOT account for....which makes his rankings purely offensive and also doesn't take into account a player's role in each offense. Since players have to play offense and defense, I tend to take Hollinger's stats lightly.
I would rather take the chance that we resign Artest to an extension or lose out and come away empty compared with taking a lesser package of players. I look at the long-term picture and think that if we cave in and just unload guys for far, far less than value, it would hurt us in the long-run when making future deals. If we can get a reasonable deal for Artest then, OK. Getting just 2 hustle guys is not my idea of reasonable. I don't buy the Artest is crazy angle, at all.........he's a difference maker. When he hasn't been in our lineup, we have been absolutely the worst team in the league. Go back and look at the first 7 games that he missed and look at the Philly game.
I was reading around when I found an article sayingthat the Kings won't give Ron up without that team taking Kenny.
Any team that wants to pry Ron Artest from the Kings at the trade deadline will have to take on Kenny Thomas' long-term obligations. At $8.6 million in 2009-10, Thomas would be no better than the fifth-highest-paid Knick that season. Welcome aboard, Kenny!
Or in our scenerio Good riddens, Kenny!
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spberger305519627dec30,0,962466.story
Any team that wants to pry Ron Artest from the Kings at the trade deadline will have to take on Kenny Thomas' long-term obligations. At $8.6 million in 2009-10, Thomas would be no better than the fifth-highest-paid Knick that season. Welcome aboard, Kenny!
Or in our scenerio Good riddens, Kenny!
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spberger305519627dec30,0,962466.story
I'd gladly welcome Brian Gardinal if it meant acquiring Gasol.
I'd gladly welcome Radmanovic if it meant acquiring Bynum.
I'd gladly welcome Scalabrine if it meant acquiring KG.
I mean really, it's a no-brainer for the Knicks to acquire Ron Artest WITH Kenny. The problem is they expect to return equally or worse contract back in return like Jared Jeffries, Q. Richardson, etc.
I'd gladly welcome Radmanovic if it meant acquiring Bynum.
I'd gladly welcome Scalabrine if it meant acquiring KG.
I mean really, it's a no-brainer for the Knicks to acquire Ron Artest WITH Kenny. The problem is they expect to return equally or worse contract back in return like Jared Jeffries, Q. Richardson, etc.
No offense meant to the OP but just because an article says a team will or won't do something unless something else does or doesn't happen isn't a reason to get all giddy with excitement.
That's just not necessarily true. One sports writer's opinion doesn't make it fact. If it did, Chris Webber would never have resigned with the Kings, Mike Bibby would be playing for the Cavaliers, etc.
That's just not necessarily true. One sports writer's opinion doesn't make it fact. If it did, Chris Webber would never have resigned with the Kings, Mike Bibby would be playing for the Cavaliers, etc.
