49ers

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BMiller52

All-Star
#91
#91
cfechter said:
You're making absolutely no sense whatsoever - if teams knew they didn't have to fear Gore, they would play in a nickel or dime package for the juggernaut otherwise known as Alex Smith (i.e. - nickel or dime means extra defensive backs, better defense against the pass). They would blitz regardless.

However, since they do NOT fear Smith, they don't play extra DB's - they play as many guys as close to the line as possible to stop Gore since they don't have to fear Smith's arm.

In my opinion, no, Gore's drop in production has nothing to do with Smith's. It is very much the other way around. Of course, I could be wrong, otherwise I'd imagine I would be a coach in the NFL! :D
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I think the drop in production from both is because Norv>Hostler, and we have Hostler.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#93
#93
Anyway on another topic why hasn't Jason Hill gotten any PT? Our WRs are horrible and the rest of these games don't even matter considering our record. Let the guy show what he can do...
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#95
#95
VF21 said:
Maybe he's not playing because Smith can't get the ball to him?
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Maybe Smith can't get him the ball because he's not playing?

See... now how does my statement make any less sense than yours? I'm not saying that's the reason, because actually I don't think it is (but if you ask me I do), I'm just saying it makes no sense to say it. Right?



















;)

(In case anybody didn't realize, I'm just making fun of myself... this post wasn't intended to make sense. :D)
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#96
#96
Okay, that was funny...

:)

My point was that Jason Hill is FAST and perhaps Smith's arm - even in practice - cannot reach Hill as he darts down the field. So, of course, if Smith cannot connect with Jason, why would they expose still another deficiency in his skillset during an actual game?

;)
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#97
#97
VF21 said:
Okay, that was funny...

:)

My point was that Jason Hill is FAST and perhaps Smith's arm - even in practice - cannot reach Hill as he darts down the field. So, of course, if Smith cannot connect with Jason, why would they expose still another deficiency in his skillset during an actual game?

;)
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What are you talking about? Are you just kidding right?
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#101
#101
cfechter said:
What I say to that: Shut up, sit down, and stop crying. If you're hurt and you're going to use that as an excuse for a horrible stretch of performances (which could be a perfectly legitimate excuse) then don't play and don't talk about it.
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WORD! Pretending you're not hurt is for brave little soldiers - in stupid movies. Coming out after a couple of abysmal performances and playing the "Oh, but I was hurt" card is for ... well, never mind.

I am beyond disgusted.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#102
#102
Wow I guess the guy really can't win here. You guys DO know it was a grade 3 seperation right? The guy is playing with 3 torn ligaments in his throwing shoulder. You don't think that can mess him up? The bottom line is he was told it would get better and he could play. The doctors never said there wouldn't be pain and it wouldn't mess him up. All they said was he was medically cleared to play. Big difference from being 100%. The guy was just trying to help his team, it's not his fault that he can't do it like he wants to. Blame it on the piece of **** who let Rocky Bernard jump on his shoulder.

Julian Peterson says...

" Seattle linebacker Julian Peterson said he observed Alex Smith wincing and grimacing as he was throwing the ball Monday and speculated the 49ers quarterback was still playing hurt.

"It's kind of hard for them to pass the ball if he's not completely healthy," Peterson said after the game. "He can't really get the ball down when he wants to. You see the receiver jumping way high or the ball is too low."

Nolan dismissed Peterson's remarks. "If Julian was a doctor, I would probably take what he had to say more seriously, but he's a football player," Nolan said."
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http://www.49erswebzone.com/content/news/view.php?id=11980
 
C

cfechter

Bench
#103
#103
BMiller52 said:
Wow I guess the guy really can't win here. You guys DO know it was a grade 3 seperation right? The guy is playing with 3 torn ligaments in his throwing shoulder. You don't think that can mess him up? The bottom line is he was told it would get better and he could play. The doctors never said there wouldn't be pain and it wouldn't mess him up. All they said was he was medically cleared to play. Big difference from being 100%. The guy was just trying to help his team, it's not his fault that he can't do it like he wants to. Blame it on the piece of **** who let Rocky Bernard jump on his shoulder.

Julian Peterson says...


http://www.49erswebzone.com/content/news/view.php?id=11980
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Again - if he's hurt, he's hurt. Fine. Great. Dandy. Lovely. Then don't play!! Don't suit up and don't play! Injury beside, he was having a pretty bad year before he got hurt. We won the first two games in spite of Smith's play.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#104
#104
What? Are you forgetting that he's the reason we won the Arizona game? He led the team to a win with like 2 minutes left. He threw a TD pass to DJack also in that game during that drive, it was right to DJack, but mr. stonehands let the ball go right through his hands. Then in the 2nd game he didn't do too badly but he only threw the ball 17 times. The Pittsburgh game he kind of sucked but the other two games? I don't see how you can say dude had a negative impact on those games. That's not true at all.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#105
#105
Winning the Arizona game meant absolutely diddly and squat. And if Smith is injuring himself further by trying to be some kind of "hero" then he's an idiot.

The guy is playing with 3 torn ligaments in his throwing shoulder.
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So? You want we should give him a purple heart? He shouldn't - repeat SHOULDN'T - be playing if he's that banged up.

It isn't about this season. It's about the long term. And anyone who makes as much money as Alex Smith is making should have enough sense to know when he's being a detriment to his team and to both his future and the future of the 49ers.

Trying to help his team? To do what? We aren't going ANYWHERE this year. The real way to help the team would be to take the time to heal properly and then, if he's even 1/2 as good as you think he is, maybe he could be helpful. Otherwise, he's just a liability out there. Defenses will key on him and he'll create more problems than he'll possibly help.
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#106
#106
Criticizing Smith for being a leader and gutting it out through pain is pretty bizarre in my opinion. It's up to Nolan to watch his play and decide if he's the best choice to be on the field.

The 49ers don't have anybody better than an injured Smith, so he's out there toughing it out for his team. You don't have to praise his play but I don't see how you can not like his actions.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#107
#107
He isn't a leader if he goes out there and fails. And gutting it out through pain is nice and dramatic in the movies but pretty blasted stupid in real life. We aren't going to win anyway. At this point, I would much rather Smith stay off the field and at least heal properly so he could possibly be of use in the future and let Trent Dilfer soak up the losses.
 
T

TheRaven

Bench
#108
#108
VF21 said:
Winning the Arizona game meant absolutely diddly and squat. And if Smith is injuring himself further by trying to be some kind of "hero" then he's an idiot.

So? You want we should give him a purple heart? He shouldn't - repeat SHOULDN'T - be playing if he's that banged up.

It isn't about this season. It's about the long term. And anyone who makes as much money as Alex Smith is making should have enough sense to know when he's being a detriment to his team and to both his future and the future of the 49ers.

Trying to help his team? To do what? We aren't going ANYWHERE this year. The real way to help the team would be to take the time to heal properly and then, if he's even 1/2 as good as you think he is, maybe he could be helpful. Otherwise, he's just a liability out there. Defenses will key on him and he'll create more problems than he'll possibly help.
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Guys, this is a professional football player. If they are at all capable of running, or in this case, throw a football, they will ALWAYS want to play hurt, no matter what.

If you want to blame someone, blame Nolan and our absolutely abysmal coaching staff. They continue to throw him out there despite the fact that he clearly is not fully recovered.

Nolan is trying to save his job at this point, and he knows that if they put in Dilfer they lose what tiny chance of winning they have thanks to the crazy amount of turnovers he creates. So they are left with playing Smith even though he isn't ready, or tossing in Shaun Hill who has never thrown a pass in a regular season game.

Bottom line is that after last year I thought Nolan was making progress with this team. We did nothing but add talent to our team in the offseason, and suddenly we suck. Even before Jennings and Smiley got hurt our O-line was (and still is) playing awful. These are the same guys that at the end of last year looked great and were giving Smith time to throw.

All of it isn't on Nolan's shoulders, but what IS on his shoulders is that this is the staff he gathered. Turner leaving late was a bad break for him and the team and made it difficult to find a good replacement to run the offense, but good coaches surround themselves with good coaching talent. We haven't done that on offense. If Nolan isn't gone after this year, I don't know what I will do.
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#109
#109
VF21 said:
He isn't a leader if he goes out there and fails. And gutting it out through pain is nice and dramatic in the movies but pretty blasted stupid in real life. We aren't going to win anyway. At this point, I would much rather Smith stay off the field and at least heal properly so he could possibly be of use in the future and let Trent Dilfer soak up the losses.
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According to the doctors, playing through this injury doesn't prevent it from healing properly.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#110
#110
But playing with an injury like that actually creates IMHO a situation where additional injury is highly possible.

But what the heck... It seems every team I root for ends up sucking...badly. If I could stomach it, I'd actually root for the Cowboys. Just to be mean.

;)
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#111
#111
VF21, I think uolj is correct about the injury. This leaves us with the probable conclusiuon that Smith is no good. Yes, he's young but I don't even see progress. He is regressing. It's all been said so I'll shut up.

I am just terribly disappointed in this team as they spent oodles of money and had a few great draft choices and have nothing much to show for it except a great cornerback and a possible perpetual all star linebacker.
 
C

cfechter

Bench
#112
#112
Glenn said:
VF21, I think uolj is correct about the injury. This leaves us with the probable conclusiuon that Smith is no good. Yes, he's young but I don't even see progress. He is regressing. It's all been said so I'll shut up.

I am just terribly disappointed in this team as they spent oodles of money and had a few great draft choices and have nothing much to show for it except a great cornerback and a possible perpetual all star linebacker.
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Most of disappointment comes in pain. It's ingrained in my soul to like the 49ers and it just hurts to see a team that l love get clobbered like this week in and week out.

I'm sure Smith means well and I don't want to insult him personally - he seems like a nice enough kid but i don't think he's an NFL caliber quarterback.
I'm sure it hurts him a lot more than it hurts us to be coming to the realization that he will be long known as a bust.
 
LilMissDiva

LilMissDiva

Bench
#113
#113
I am very saddened by the outcome of this season. I did expect more from my football team at least.

They still have a lot of work to do in the offseason, by which could not come soon enough.
 
allrightythen

allrightythen

Starter
#114
#114
Hostler is not an NFL OC, the offense is in a shambles right now. It appears the 49ers have enough talent on the offensive side of the ball, and if thats true then you have to point to the coaching as the major problem. Maybe Norv gets thrown out of SD this offseason and we can get him back in to save the offense.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#115
#115
This is what pro football talk says:

MORE EVIDENCE OF INJURY REPORTING SHENANIGANS?
Though the instant reaction to the dueling Wednesday comments from 49ers quarterback Alex Smith and coach Mike Nolan is that the player and his boss aren't on the same page, we think that there's something deeper, and more troubling, going on here.
On Thursday, Smith acknowledged that he has been playing while injured. Informed of Smith's comments, Nolan said that it was news to him.
"I think that it would be a good idea if he said that to me before he said that [to the media]," Nolan said.
"There is a medical staff with him all the time. All he has to do -- all any player has to do -- is say, 'This is my issue.' That works. That works. In games, when the doctor says he's OK and the guy says he doesn't want to come out, that's their choice. If the doc says no, there's no discussion. So the decision on that is really out of my hands. All I can do is pull a guy if he's not performing at the level I expect him to do. Then that's my area. But if the medical staff gives me the information that somebody is OK, I'm just following up on that. That's what I go off of. If I was the doctor, I could give you more."
Then, Nolan attempted to blame the situation on communication problems between Nolan and the most important player on his team.
"I spoke with him right after practice, and maybe I need to speak with him again because of these things being said. In fact, I'll go see him now. The communication lines, you know, aren't as good as I thought. And we'll see what that's about. Please don't assume too much, but then again what makes a good story is you have to assume . . . . And we'll have to see where that's coming from."
Okay, here's our take. Based on assuming.
Nolan, we believe, knew damn well that Smith's shoulder and arm are bothering him. But if Nolan admitted that he knew that Smith's shoulder was injured and Smith didn't appear on the Week Ten injury report, the Niners would be in clear violation of the league's injury-reporting rules.
And a look at the recent injury reports shows that the team has been monitoring Smith's arm. In Week Nine, Smith was listed as probable due to his throwing shoulder. In Week Eight, he was not listed as probable, questionable, or doubtful, but he was listed as fully participating in practice on Wednesday and Thursday despite a "right shoulder." In Week Seven, Smith was probable due to the right shoulder.
At no point in the past month has his forearm been mentioned as the source of any injury.
So, as we see it, this isn't about communication between the coach and the quarterback, the quarterback and the medical staff, the medical staff and the coach, and/or anyone and the guy who fills out the injury report. This is, in our view, about whether the team opted to understate Smith's shoulder injury in the official report.
Smith's failure in this case, then, wasn't talking to the media about the injury before talking to the coach. It was talking to the media about the injury at all.​
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VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#116
#116
Uh oh...

Thanks for sharing, BMiller52.

On Thursday, Smith acknowledged that he has been playing while injured. Informed of Smith's comments, Nolan said that it was news to him.

"I think that it would be a good idea if he said that to me before he said that [to the media]," Nolan said.

"There is a medical staff with him all the time. All he has to do -- all any player has to do -- is say, 'This is my issue.' That works. That works. In games, when the doctor says he's OK and the guy says he doesn't want to come out, that's their choice. If the doc says no, there's no discussion. So the decision on that is really out of my hands. All I can do is pull a guy if he's not performing at the level I expect him to do. Then that's my area. But if the medical staff gives me the information that somebody is OK, I'm just following up on that. That's what I go off of. If I was the doctor, I could give you more."
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I think there may be more problems in the 49ers locker room than it seems. Oh, goodie. More troubles between key players and the head coach.

:rolleyes:
 
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B

BMiller52

All-Star
#118
#118
VF21 said:
Uh oh...

Thanks for sharing, BMiller52.



I think there may be more problems in the 49ers locker room than it seems. Oh, goodie. More troubles between key players and the head coach.

:rolleyes:
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lol I'm not sure exactly if there's anything to what they're saying, but I dunno Nolan is starting to seem a lot like the NFL verson of EMuss IMO. Dude has lost his players, doesn't know how to coach an offense, supposedly a young up and coming coach, can't develop his young players. I know Nolan spent a lot more time with the 9ers than Muss did with the Kings but still anyone else see the similarities? And now he's starting to seem a little shady also. I just wish we had a real NFL coach.

btw that was awfully quick he named Dilfer the QB, wonder if Smith will go on IR and get surgery or something.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#119
#119
BMiller52 said:
btw that was awfully quick he named Dilfer the QB, wonder if Smith will go on IR and get surgery or something.
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That's the one thing I won't fault Nolan for. Upon hearing that his big $$$ QB is still injured I think the only thing he could do was announce that Smith will not be starting. Anything else would, I believe, actually be a violation of NFL rules.
 
C

cfechter

Bench
#120
#120
VF21 said:
That's the one thing I won't fault Nolan for. Upon hearing that his big $$$ QB is still injured I think the only thing he could do was announce that Smith will not be starting. Anything else would, I believe, actually be a violation of NFL rules.
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After listening to sports talk much of the day (in the car traveling around for about 3 hours), many of the talking heads claimed that Nolan was effectively trying to throw Smith under the team bus by having him play injured and "forcing" him to look like a bust. Other hosts claimed that Smith is just terrible and made his coach look bad on purpose; I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle - I don't think Nolan would purposely make Smith look bad in efforts to make himself look good, nor do I think that Smith would purposely make his coach look bad. My thought is Nolan really wanted Smith to succeed regardless and didn't want to let on to other teams that Smith still kinda sorta was hurt. I also think that Smith was just frustrated after being skewered in the press for the past three weeks.

By now this is just a big mess. Alex, if you can't play, you can't play and just go on IR and come back next year for what is probably your final shot in a 49er uniform. Nolan, please show us something the rest of the year that would restore some semblance of confidence in your coaching abilities.
 
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