49ers

[VF21]

McNabb would be pricey and any QB can only be as good as his front line and WR. I am sure in my heart that Donovan, one of my long-time favorite QBs, would quickly burn out from a lack of both.

Just as a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, the 49ers will only be as good as the combination of players. One star cannot make the playoffs by himself.

Look at the glory years of the 49ers and you'll see what I mean.



As far as blaming Smith goes, he isn't that good. Our front line could be perfect, and make him look better, but Alex Smith is not ever going to be Joe Montana or Steve Young or Y.A. Tittle. He might, at best, be adequate IF everyone else around him was all-pro caliber but he just isn't going to ever show the natural talent exhibited by the great 49er QBs of the past.

At some point, I think even our dear Dr. York will realize it, if he hasn't already. Unfortunately for the long-suffering 49er fans, I still don't think York cares.

What we really need is another Eddie deBartolo, Jr. but they don't grow on trees, either...

 

[BMiller52]

McNabb would be pricey and any QB can only be as good as his front line and WR. I am sure in my heart that Donovan, one of my long-time favorite QBs, would quickly burn out from a lack of both.

Just as a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, the 49ers will only be as good as the combination of players. One star cannot make the playoffs by himself.

Look at the glory years of the 49ers and you'll see what I mean.

Yea you're right, like nobody's going to succeed if the line doesn't protect them AND the recievers don't catch. But it's on Smith to atleast make a play here and there on the occasions that does happen. So he has the rest of the season to show he can make plays I guess. We need to get some better O-lineman for whoever is our QB though. I'd pick a WR with our 1st pick and then I'm not sure who else we can pick up in FA to fix those problems. I don't think Nolan is doing a good job either an at the very least Hostler needs to be canned, the guy is an idiot.

 

[VF21]

Sorry, I edited my comments while you were replying.



Bottom line is our problem, as GophersFan pointed out, stem from the very top. Dr. York is not the owner Eddie was and he simply doesn't show the same kind of dedication to the game, the team and the fans that deBartolo did.

 

[cfechter]

Wait until next year. The defense will have Lawson back (HUGE loss this year) and maybe there needs to be a youth movement in the defensive line. In any case, the defense is not our problem. Another year together would be nice.

As to the offense, we are stuck with Smith and that puts a severe limit on the offense's potential. So also does the coaching. There is no easy solution to this problem. We blew it on draft day a few years ago. I think I would pay a little more attention to the offensive line. Staley is a good start and simply needs experience. Now let's get a few more. I fear Jennings and Allen are at the ends of their respective ropes.

I think the defense is actually pretty solid overall. Considering that the offense is completely atrocious, the defense has performed well (except for complete lack of a pass rush).

Smith is the weakest link on this team. If Smith were able to throw the ball, teams wouldnt' consistently play 8 guys in the box and Gore would have room to run (who is somehow still miraculously averaging 4.1 yards per carry despite being keyed on every play).

Smith is a nice kid, and I'm sure he's a good individual, but he just isn't a professional football player. 3/4's of the backups in the league would do a better job tomorrow than what he's been doing all season.

 

[VF21]

I caught something on ESPN this morning and maybe someone can clarify... They were mentioning that one of the starting QBs in the league is ranked 34th in QBs. Who was it? I mean, there are 32 teams in the league so this guy is so bad even two of the teams have backup QBs who do a better job than he does?

 

[BMiller52]

I think the defense is actually pretty solid overall. Considering that the offense is completely atrocious, the defense has performed well (except for complete lack of a pass rush).

Smith is the weakest link on this team. If Smith were able to throw the ball, teams wouldnt' consistently play 8 guys in the box and Gore would have room to run (who is somehow still miraculously averaging 4.1 yards per carry despite being keyed on every play).

Smith is a nice kid, and I'm sure he's a good individual, he just isn't a professional football player. 3/4's of the backups in the league would do a better job tomorrow than what he's doing.

He did pretty good last year though. Not say he'll ever be great but he's only in his 3rd year with a crappy supporting cast and a seperated shoulder on his throwing arm. I don't see why he can't be pretty good. He just needs to start playing better, but I dunno. There are QBs who have done bad in 1 place and then went to another and they look good or become good. Heck Steve Young was shipped out of Tampa Bay and then he goes to SF and becomes good. Obviously Smith is no Steve Young, 99.9% chance he never will be(unless a miracle happens and god gives him some sick special powers), but I don't see why he can't become a good player down the line. Sure he doesn't have it right now but he was the #1 pick. The 9ers must have seen something they liked that made them think he was worth it right?

 

[BMiller52]

I caught something on ESPN this morning and maybe someone can clarify... They were mentioning that one of the starting QBs in the league is ranked 34th in QBs. Who was it? I mean, there are 32 teams in the league so this guy is so bad even two of the teams have backup QBs who do a better job than he does?

lol It's Smith. Still he was pretty good last year under a real OC.

 

[cfechter]

He did pretty good last year though. Not say he'll ever be great but he's only in his 3rd year with a crappy supporting cast and a seperated shoulder on his throwing arm. I don't see why he can't be pretty good. He just needs to start playing better, but I dunno. There are QBs who have done bad in 1 place and then went to another and they look good or become good. Heck Steve Young was shipped out of Tampa Bay and then he goes to SF and becomes good. Obviously Smith is no Steve Young, 99.9% chance he never will be(unless a miracle happens and god gives him some sick special powers), but I don't see why he can't become a good player down the line. Sure he doesn't have it right now but he was the #1 pick. The 9ers must have seen something they liked that made them think he was worth it right?

I wouldn't say he has a crappy supporting cast; Frank Gore is one of the best, and while I would agree with you that the line has not been very good (but they haven't been worse than mediocre), the fact of the matter is that his throws are just not NFL throws. NFL quarterbacks don't underthrow a wide open receiver by 10 yards and expect to succeed.

 

[VF21]

BMiller52 - That's what I thought but I didn't want to say it until/unless someone else confirmed it. That's just sad...

He was pretty good last year? Um, no offense, but did you look at the final standings? If a QB can't lead his team to wins, it doesn't matter if he's "pretty good." It's the results that count and we've done nothing with him at the helm - well, except get a good draft pick.

 

[uolj]

I caught something on ESPN this morning and maybe someone can clarify... They were mentioning that one of the starting QBs in the league is ranked 34th in QBs. Who was it? I mean, there are 32 teams in the league so this guy is so bad even two of the teams have backup QBs who do a better job than he does?

There are like 45 or so QBs that have started this year, and Smith is 34th out of those I guess.

I'm not ready to write him off yet. He makes plays to win close games in the fourth quarter, which is a huge plus for any quarterback. But he's obviously making a lot of mistakes now, and despite the crappiness that is the rest of the offense he should not be looking this bad.

I'm not sure McNabb is the answer, this team won't be ready to contend next year like I had hoped. Get more young guys next year and only spring for the more expensive but established QB when the rest of the team is ready to contend.

 

[uolj]

I wouldn't say he has a crappy supporting cast; Frank Gore is one of the best, and while I would agree with you that the line has not been very good (but they haven't been worse than mediocre), the fact of the matter is that his throws are just not NFL throws. NFL quarterbacks don't underthrow a wide open receiver by 10 yards and expect to succeed.

Gore has performed poorly this year as well. To me, that means that something else is wrong besides Smith. If Gore looks bad but is good, how do we know that Smith isn't good, too?

I'm not saying he's showing he'll be great, but a better offense (i.e. coordinator) could do a lot to make it obvious one way or the other.

 

[cfechter]

Gore has performed poorly this year as well. To me, that means that something else is wrong besides Smith. If Gore looks bad but is good, how do we know that Smith isn't good, too?

I'm not saying he's showing he'll be great, but a better offense (i.e. coordinator) could do a lot to make it obvious one way or the other.

I couldn't disagree more. Under the circumstances, Gore has performed excellently. Over 4 yards per carry with a quarterback who hasn't thrown for over 200 yards in 16 games - every time is keying on Gore, playing 8, 9 men in the box and yet he still finds enough room to run when asked.

 

[uolj]

I couldn't disagree more. Under the circumstances, Gore has performed excellently. Over 4 yards per carry with a quarterback who hasn't thrown for over 200 yards in 16 games - every time is keying on Gore, playing 8, 9 men in the box and yet he still finds enough room to run when asked.

Last year the passing game struggled as well and there were often 8 men in the box, yet Gore was able to get over 65% more yards and had a 5.4 ypc average as opposed to the 4.1 he's got now. That's a huge dropoff.

My point is not that Gore is the problem, my point is that the "circumstances" affect both Gore and Smith, and if they are causing Gore to have such a down year, then there's no reason to think that they can't also be causing Smith to be having a down year.

 

[Jechtsphere]

Anyone think we win another game all season?

After the loss to the Falcons it made me think it's very possible.

 

[cfechter]

Last year the passing game struggled as well and there were often 8 men in the box, yet Gore was able to get over 65% more yards and had a 5.4 ypc average as opposed to the 4.1 he's got now. That's a huge dropoff.

My point is not that Gore is the problem, my point is that the "circumstances" affect both Gore and Smith, and if they are causing Gore to have such a down year, then there's no reason to think that they can't also be causing Smith to be having a down year.

Last year Smith's rating was 75 with 16 touchdowns, this year his rating is 57 with 2 touchdowns.

In my opinion, the fact he can't pass really hurts Gore's ability to run. if he were able to consistently make a 15 yard completion, teams wouldn't be able to jump the run nearly as much.

 

[VF21]

Anyone think we win another game all season?

After the loss to the Falcons it made me think it's very possible.

Our best hope in another win would be that whatever team we're playing looks right by us, focused on the playoffs or something, and doesn't notice us putting up more points on the board than they have. Unfortunately, this would also probably take a blinding fog so they cannot see the scoreboard AND some freak electrical accident to prevent them hearing the PA system.

So, while it's possible for the 49ers to eke out another win, I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[uolj]

Last year Smith's rating was 75 with 16 touchdowns, this year his rating is 57 with 2 touchdowns.

In my opinion, the fact he can't pass really hurts Gore's ability to run. if he were able to consistently make a 15 yard completion, teams wouldn't be able to jump the run nearly as much.

You could say the exact same thing but switching Gore and Smith. Gore is running much worse which really hurts Smith's ability to pass. Why does one make more sense than the other?

I'm not arguing that Smith is better than Gore, I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to see regressions from both Smith and Gore and assume Smith is causing both.

Personally, I think Hostler is causing both.


Before last game I thought it would be extremely unlikely that the 49ers would end up 2-14. But now, I'm not sure. When the team was getting worse and worse after 4 games, I figured that it happens and they'd start showing progress again. Well, now it's past the time where they should have been recovering, and they are still getting even worse. They might be able to beat the Rams, but the Rams might be playing better by that time, so who knows. Luckily the schedule isn't too bad for the rest of the season.

 

[cfechter]

You could say the exact same thing but switching Gore and Smith. Gore is running much worse which really hurts Smith's ability to pass. Why does one make more sense than the other?

I'm not arguing that Smith is better than Gore, I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to see regressions from both Smith and Gore and assume Smith is causing both.

Personally, I think Hostler is causing both.


Before last game I thought it would be extremely unlikely that the 49ers would end up 2-14. But now, I'm not sure. When the team was getting worse and worse after 4 games, I figured that it happens and they'd start showing progress again. Well, now it's past the time where they should have been recovering, and they are still getting even worse. They might be able to beat the Rams, but the Rams might be playing better by that time, so who knows. Luckily the schedule isn't too bad for the rest of the season.

You can't say the exact same thing switching Gore and Smith - otherwise you would be able to say that since the defenses don't fear Gore, they are playing a 4-1-6 or nickel defense exclusively. But you can't say that, because every defense we're facing is playin 8 or nine men in the box.

I do agree with you that it's entirely possible for this team to lose the rest of its games this year.

 

[SLAB]

Sad thing, our possible top 5 pick will go to the Pats, I believe.

Talk about the rich getting richer.

 

[VF21]

You could say the exact same thing but switching Gore and Smith. Gore is running much worse which really hurts Smith's ability to pass. Why does one make more sense than the other?

Because the one constant is Smith has the ball at the beginning of EVERY offensive possession.

 

[uolj]

Because the one constant is Smith has the ball at the beginning of EVERY offensive possession.

I'm sure Smith's poor handoff ability is what's causing Gore's drop in production.

Sorry, but that has nothing to do with the issue.

 

[VF21]

Yes, it does. Opposing defenses, knowing Smith's abysmal production - after all, he's #34, remember, in the QB rankings - are continually keying on Gore. He hasn't had the chance to get into any kind of real rhythm, and it's now become a situation where I strongly suspect he's lost a little bit of confidence. And with the probable loss in confidence comes the self-fulfilling prophecy of an inability to be productive.

You may not agree with it, but it's quite possible.

 

[cfechter]

I'm sure Smith's poor handoff ability is what's causing Gore's drop in production.

Sorry, but that has nothing to do with the issue.

Smiths' handoff's have nothing to do with Gore's drop in production (of course) but his lack of passing ability has everything to do with Gore's drop in production.

Teams have no reason to fear the passing game so they consistently play 8 men in the box - this in turn leaves a lot less room for Gore.

 

[uolj]

Yes, it does. Opposing defenses, knowing Smith's abysmal production - after all, he's #34, remember, in the QB rankings - are continually keying on Gore. He hasn't had the chance to get into any kind of real rhythm, and it's now become a situation where I strongly suspect he's lost a little bit of confidence. And with the probable loss in confidence comes the self-fulfilling prophecy of an inability to be productive.

You may not agree with it, but it's quite possible.

Of course it's possible, but whether I agree with it or not wasn't what was being discussed. The point is that last year defenses keyed on Gore, and yet the offense (both passing and running) had a certain level of success. This year, the defense is still keyed on Gore, and both the passing game and the running game have regressed.

So, I'm saying logically it makes no sense to claim that Smith's regression is his own fault but Gore's regressions is not his own fault (and even worse that Gore's regression is Smith's fault) based just on the fact that they have regressed.

It's a chicken/egg thing. You can claim the chicken came first, but someone else can just as easily claim that the egg did. For that reason the claim that the chicken came first has no relevance on its own.

P.S. If you do want my opinion, I'd say it's mostly Hostler's fault, and that the receivers, offensive line and Smith have contributed to the problem in that order. I don't think Gore shoulders much blame at all.

Smiths' handoff's have nothing to do with Gore's drop in production (of course) but his lack of passing ability has everything to do with Gore's drop in production.

Teams have no reason to fear the passing game so they consistently play 8 men in the box - this in turn leaves a lot less room for Gore.

It was that way last year also, and yet Gore had much better numbers.

 

[BMiller52]

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=82253

That's a thread on another site that shows that Alex's mechanics used to be good, but now they're not. What do you guys think???

 

[uolj]

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=82253

That's a thread on another site that shows that Alex's mechanics used to be good, but now they're not. What do you guys think???

It doesn't really show much. It talks about the leg lock thingie mentioned by Jaworski last night, but all the pictures from this year are of him after he has been hit/grabbed by the defense. It certainly doesn't show anything about a change in mechanics.

 

[cfechter]

It was that way last year also, and yet Gore had much better numbers.

Last year Smith's passer rating was 76, this year it's 57. Defenses now KNOW they have absolutely nothing to fear in Smith's passing so they consistently stack the line of scrimmage. No running back in football could consistently run when there are always more defenders than blockers.

 

[uolj]

Last year Smith's passer rating was 76, this year it's 57. Defenses now KNOW they have absolutely nothing to fear in Smith's passing so they consistently stack the line of scrimmage. No running back in football could consistently run when there are always more defenders than blockers.

I don't think you're understanding.

Last year Gore's yards per carry was 5.4, this year it's 4.1. Defenses now KNOW they have less to fear in Gore's running so they consistently apply extra pressure on the quarterback. No quarterback in football could consistently pass when there are defenders bearing down on him almost immediately after the snap.

See how I did that? How is your statement any more accurate than mine?

Maybe, just maybe, there is a separate cause that is affecting both of them. Right?

 

[cfechter]

I don't think you're understanding.

Last year Gore's yards per carry was 5.4, this year it's 4.1. Defenses now KNOW they have less to fear in Gore's running so they consistently apply extra pressure on the quarterback. No quarterback in football could consistently pass when there are defenders bearing down on him almost immediately after the snap.

See how I did that? How is your statement any more accurate than mine?

Maybe, just maybe, there is a separate cause that is affecting both of them. Right?

You're making absolutely no sense whatsoever - if teams knew they didn't have to fear Gore, they would play in a nickel or dime package for the juggernaut otherwise known as Alex Smith (i.e. - nickel or dime means extra defensive backs, better defense against the pass). They would blitz regardless.

However, since they do NOT fear Smith, they don't play extra DB's - they play as many guys as close to the line as possible to stop Gore since they don't have to fear Smith's arm.

In my opinion, no, Gore's drop in production has nothing to do with Smith's. It is very much the other way around. Of course, I could be wrong, otherwise I'd imagine I would be a coach in the NFL!

 

[VF21]

However, since they do NOT fear Smith, they don't play extra DB's - they play as many guys as close to the line as possible to stop Gore since they don't have to fear Smith's arm.

They don't fear Smith's arm, or his legs, or anything else about him. With a ranking of 34, I doubt if they even talk about him very much. It could just as well be my old friend Bozo the one-legged monkey in there calling the plays. And I bet good ol' Bozo could at least get into the top 32 in QBs.