Miami still eyeing Artest

Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#1
#1
According to the Miami Herald the Heat are going to make another push at getting Ron Artest using Haslem as the main trade bait.

Haslem and Wright work out for Artest as far as Salaries go, but that would leave us 3 PF's under 6'10 with Salaries over 6 mil a year and at least 3 years left on their contracts. None of which are high caliber players. Thanks but, no thanks keep Haslem.
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#2
#2
Artest for Doleac/Wright and Cook or Simien works. I'd do it. Two young players and an expiring. They may have to throw in a pick but I'd still do it without it.
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#4
#4
chelle said:
So do they want Artest or bibby? I have heard both.
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They've shown interest in both, although I'd be more happy with the deal I posted above than a deal for Bibby (which would ensure we take another horrible contract back, I'd rather keep Mike and have him as an expiring next year). Maybe it's just because I'd prefer Mike to Ron.
 
CruzDude

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#7
#7
Sure, Miami and others are interested in Artest for what he can bring when he plays as he should. But right now I suspect new Coach T wants to see what Ron Ron brings to the Kings in his regime IF he plays as the coach wants him and leaves the ball handling to Bibbs and Cisco and maybe Shakur, late in games.

Plus as a number have pointed out Miami really doesn't have anything to trade much less having someone to trade that will make the Kings better without Ron Ron. But that then leads into a 3-team trade, doesn't it? Nah, I think Kings are pat for next 3 months............. unless something that makes them better this year comes along by giving up a big piece like Ron Ron. Don't see that happening.
 
John Galt

John Galt

Starter
#9
#9
I know there are a LOT of reasonable and smart people who disagree with me on this, but I do NOT want to see Artest go and I do NOT fear a cataclysmic blowup. I am not afraid, and I think Ron Artest is an amazing ballplayer - our best since CWebb left.

If Artest goes, he better take KT or Miller with him, or else bring back a LOT of value in return...

"Dumping" Ron Artest in my very humble and very lonely opinion would be stupid.
 
C

cfechter

Bench
#11
#11
Entity said:
According to the Miami Herald the Heat are going to make another push at getting Ron Artest using Haslem as the main trade bait.

Haslem and Wright work out for Artest as far as Salaries go, but that would leave us 3 PF's under 6'10 with Salaries over 6 mil a year and at least 3 years left on their contracts. None of which are high caliber players. Thanks but, no thanks keep Haslem.
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Bleh, if Riley called me with a trade proposal using Haslem as the main piece, I would be insulted. Bad contract, not very productive. We already have a number of not-very-good power forwards, so no thank you.

I think Wright + First + ender would do the trick.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#12
#12
Well I will say this -- as he promised at the start of the offseason Geoff has been very aggressive...at letting other teams be very aggressive in pursuing our guys.

And obviously here we are again with another obvious possibility -- its the internet age and these logical type deals etc. have been able to be pegged by fans for months. Bibby to Cleveland or Miami, just always made sense. Artest ot Miami or New York just always made sense. But if the best everybody can do is force their own stubby PFs with bad contracts onto us, since apparently we have been tagged as the ultimate repository of all undersized worthless borderline starting PFs in the league, I don't think any of it is going to happen.

At this point the possibilities have been so well known for so long this offseason, and we have thus far done so little, that I am largely over the speculation. Just going to kick back. Its either going to happen, or not, in these dying days of this summer. If nothing does in the end, be time to take a long hard look at the man in charge. But almost impossible to get excited or unexcited at any possibility right now. We all know what they are. We none know if they happen.
 
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Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#13
#13
dude12 said:
No. Dumping Artest doesn't make sense right now. Miami doesn't have anything to give.
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Dumping? Sorry, but you're wrong. Either you're over rating what we can get back for Artest or under rating the value of young guys, expirings and picks to a supposedly rebuilding team.

Wright has alot of potential, would fill Artests gap, and has supposedly grown to 6'10'' (even if he didn't I'd still do it). Doleac is an ender. Cook/Simien are both young guys, would rather Cook as we already are overloaded with average bigs.

What do you expect in return? I do not want a player of similar talent back unless they are young (not happenin'). It does nothing except prolong this stupid and frustrating mediocrity that we're going through and many fans want more role players so that it continues. :mad:
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#14
#14
Bricklayer said:
Well I will say this -- as he promised at the start of the offseason Geoff has been very aggressive...at letting other teams be very aggressive in pursuing our guys.



If nothing does in the end, be time to take a long hard look at the man in charge.
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I think we all know that you believe GP to be an incompetent boob. That is your opinion.

I believe GP is still one of the best GMs in the league. I am happy that he is not readily going to hit the panic button and have a Kings fire sale. I am glad that teams are pursuing our roster. I believe that it gives us a better chance to come out on top of any deal rather than looking desperate and losing on deals.

If no deals happen this year, I am fine with that as well. This team has enough talent to perform much better than they did last year.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#15
#15
dude12 said:
No. Dumping Artest doesn't make sense right now. Miami doesn't have anything to give.
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Choices BTW:

1) "dump" Artest now

2) lose Artest for nothing next year (up to him, and entirely possible)

3) if he's even willing, sign Ron Artest, nutter, to a long term deal and be stuck with him forever

With this aside -- this idea that his value is somehow going to go up in season is just flat wrong. He has an opt out in his contract. Those are terrible for trade value. Nobody knows what they are getting. If they want him long term, he might just leave them. If they want him as an ending contract, he might stay. And he's Ron Artest. not a team in this or any other league who is going to tear out a huge chunk of itself to take that gamble midseason. Might still be able to move him, but the offers aren't going to get any better. In the correct deal (Doleac, Wright, pick(s)) Miami has the exact thigs we need out of such a deal -- youth, enders, picks. Similar to the soon to be available Jones/Dickau, Balmkman, picks(s) possibility in New York. Youth, enders, pick(s). The rebuilding mantra.
 
John Galt

John Galt

Starter
#16
#16
dime dropper said:
Dumping? Sorry, but you're wrong. Either you're over rating what we can get back for Artest or under rating the value of young guys, expirings and picks to a supposedly rebuilding team.

Wright has alot of potential, would fill Artests gap, and has supposedly grown to 6'10'' (even if he didn't I'd still do it). Doleac is an ender. Cook/Simien are both young guys, would rather Cook as we already are overloaded with average bigs.

What do you expect in return? I do not want a player of similar talent back unless they are young (not happenin'). It does nothing except prolong this stupid and frustrating mediocrity that we're going through and many fans want more role players so that it continues. :mad:
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You're acting like Wright is on the table, and there has been no indication that he IS on the table. That's the disconnect.

Your proposal would be fine - not a DUMP.

Miami's proposal is a DUMP.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#17
#17
kupman said:
I think we all know that you believe GP to be an incompetent boob. That is your opinion.
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No actually.

Difference is not that great. I know what I am doing around the NBA. Watch the league heavily. Have followed it heavily for 25 years. Petrie is just another guy to me. Seen better. Seen worse. They come and go. Do not genuflect. Have perspective. Know his entire career arc better than most. Hence he gets evaulated on a flat scale, same as everybody else. He is either an inncompetent boob or a "genius" entirely on the basis of what he's done or doing.

And hence we come to this. You a) support Geoff out of a simpering deference to authority; b) out of a confusion of the meaning of fandom -- your opinion of him would differ if he were the Lakers GM; and c) most cirtically because you are at least as big a hypocrite as you claim me to be. My standards for whether Geoff is incompetent or not rely entirely on his progress at tasks that I know have to be done -- rebuiilding tasks. Tearing it down. Your support for his inaction stems from your lack of understanding of same. Thus he is your hero, because you don't want anything done, and he's not doing anything. We all worship as genius those who support our own ideals, pillory as wrongheaded those who do not. The difference between us is that there was a time once upon a time when I supported most of the moves Geoff made -- because he was making the correct ones. You see I am NOT a hypocrite. I just know what has to be done and judge accordingly. You on the other hand, even if Geoff launched the full scale rebuild tommorow that you dread, would refuse to critique him. One is an honest evaluation based on principles. The other following the cult of personality.
 
Jerryaki

Jerryaki

Starter
#18
#18
kupman said:
I believe GP is still one of the best GMs in the league. I am happy that he is not readily going to hit the panic button and have a Kings fire sale. I am glad that teams are pursuing our roster. I believe that it gives us a better chance to come out on top of any deal rather than looking desperate and losing on deals.
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as of right this moment, the past three years or so have not done much to bolster geoff's credibility. the rapid decline from the golden years screams of a lack of foresight; they went for the brass ring but didn't have any back up plans in place.

now, if in 2-3 years time the kings are back to respectability and are moving upwards, then yes, i'd agree that geoff is a pretty good GM. but until then, there's no telling.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#19
#19
Bricklayer said:
Well I will say this -- as he promised at the start of the offseason Geoff has been very aggressive...at letting other teams be very aggressive in pursuing our guys.
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LOL! :D

Priceless.

It's got to be rough to go to the office, put your feet up on the desk, and wait for the calls to stream in. Geoff must have a few video games on hand to stave off the boredom.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#20
#20
Francisco d'Anconia said:
You're acting like Wright is on the table, and there has been no indication that he IS on the table. That's the disconnect.
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One would think there is a much greater chance of Wright being on the table for Artest than for Bibby, for instance, simply because he plays the same positon. Its hard for them to trade Wright for Bibby, because then they are very thin at SF -- they are already over the tax threshold and so bringing Posey back will be very tough, and Wright becomes important. But if they are getting Artest, a SF, then the guy who they might not be able to afford losing is JWill -- doubt Riiles wants to go into a season with Smush Parker and no reasonable platoon at that spot. But in that case Wright might logically be available. Clearly with all the Miami rumors the modestly talented Haslem is the preferred loss by them -- Wright might be able to play some PF wiht his length, and I suspect Riles sees a little of Anthony Mason in Artest. But still, from a roster standpoint, Wright is more expendable to bring back a superior SF than he is to bring back a PG.
 
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D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#21
#21
Bricklayer said:
Choices BTW:

1) "dump" Artest now

2) lose Artest for nothing next year (up to him, and entirely possible)

3) if he's even willing, sign Ron Artest, nutter, to a long term deal and be stuck with him forever

With this aside -- this idea that his value is somehow going to go up in season is just flat wrong. He has an opt out in his contract. Those are terrible for trade value. Nobody knows what they are getting. If they want him long term, he might just leave them. If they want him as an ending contract, he might stay. And he's Ron Artest. not a team in this or any other league who is going to tear out a huge chunk of itself to take that gamble midseason. Might still be able to move him, but the offers aren't going to get any better. In the correct deal (Doleac, Wright, pick(s)) Miami has the exact thigs we need out of such a deal -- youth, enders, picks. Similar to the soon to be available Jones/Dickau, Balmkman, picks(s) possibility in New York. Youth, enders, pick(s). The rebuilding mantra.
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well, we disagree on something again but here's this option:

4) wait for the season to start before moving Artest. I feel that NY would be the team that he will eventually go to.

I'm not enamored with Dorell Wright. I'd like to see Wright play for the first month of the season and then guage his value. What would be wrong with that?
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#22
#22
dime dropper said:
Dumping? Sorry, but you're wrong. Either you're over rating what we can get back for Artest or under rating the value of young guys, expirings and picks to a supposedly rebuilding team.

Wright has alot of potential, would fill Artests gap, and has supposedly grown to 6'10'' (even if he didn't I'd still do it). Doleac is an ender. Cook/Simien are both young guys, would rather Cook as we already are overloaded with average bigs.

What do you expect in return? I do not want a player of similar talent back unless they are young (not happenin'). It does nothing except prolong this stupid and frustrating mediocrity that we're going through and many fans want more role players so that it continues. :mad:
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Artest does not have a bad contract...I think your undervaluing him. Sorry but Wright does not do it for me. My attitude would be for Miami to play him for a month and then show us what his potential is. Not sold on him right now. Cook/Simien? Seriously? Just because they are young doesn't mean we want them. No upside here with these guys....at all. I don't like this package at all. Sounds like you would be willing to just dump Artest right now. No thanks. I wouldn't mind seeing Theus work with Artest for a month before trading him.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#23
#23
dude12 said:
well, we disagree on something again but here's this option:

4) wait for the season to start before moving Artest. I feel that NY would be the team that he will eventually go to.

I'm not enamored with Dorell Wright. I'd like to see Wright play for the first month of the season and then guage his value. What would be wrong with that?
Click to expand...

You may want to look at what Wright did last year. he damn near averaged a double double when he got over 20 min. He is a great rebounding SF as good as Bonzi was a rebounding SG. Wright is also a good weak side shot blocker. Not in the Josh Smith or Gerald Wallace fold yet but, he could be one day. he is next level at least. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2OBlLV9itI&mode=related&search=
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#24
#24
Bricklayer said:
No actually.

Difference is not that great. I know what I am doing around the NBA. Watch the league heavily. Have followed it heavily for 25 years. Petrie is just another guy to me. Seen better. Seen worse. They come and go. Do not genuflect. Have perspective. Know his entire career arc better than most. Hence he gets evaulated on a flat scale, same as everybody else. He is either an inncompetent boob or a "genius" entirely on the basis of what he's done or doing.

And hence we come to this. You a) support Geoff out of a simpering deference to authority; b) out of a confusion of the meaning of fandom -- your opinion of him would differ if he were the Lakers GM; and c) most cirtically because you are at least as big a hypocrite as you claim me to be. My standards for whether Geoff is incompetent or not rely entirely on his progress at tasks that I know have to be done -- rebuiilding tasks. Tearing it down. Your support for his inaction stems from your lack of understanding of same. Thus he is your hero, because you don't want anything done, and he's not doing anything. We all worship as genius those who support our own ideals, pillory as wrongheaded those who do not. The difference between us is that there was a time once upon a time when I supported most of the moves Geoff made -- because he was making the correct ones. You see I am NOT a hypocrite. I just know what has to be done and judge accordingly. You on the other hand, even if Geoff launched the full scale rebuild tommorow that you dread, would refuse to critique him. One is an honest evaluation based on principles. The other following the cult of personality.
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At what point in my post did I call you a hypocrite....or even insult you for that matter?

I simply stated my opinion as a contrast to yours. In return, I get called a hypocrite, a blind follower and ignorant to boot.........nice.
 
GoGoGadget

GoGoGadget

All-Star
#25
#25
kupman said:
I believe GP is still one of the best GMs in the league. I am happy that he is not readily going to hit the panic button and have a Kings fire sale. I am glad that teams are pursuing our roster. I believe that it gives us a better chance to come out on top of any deal rather than looking desperate and losing on deals.
Click to expand...

There is a monumental difference between action and panic.

As much as I would love it to happen, the team isn't going to just magically un-suck overnight. And, really, if you step back and look at the Kings' last few years as a non-fan would... the lack of movement is almost laughable.
 
John Galt

John Galt

Starter
#26
#26
Bricklayer: Will you upgrade your opinion of Geoff it it proves out that he sucessfully drives a hard bargain for Bibby and/or Artest by playing aloof? If he ends up with more than you would have him settle for today - or somehow jettisons Kenny in either deal, will you give him credit for playing it cool and patient?
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#27
#27
Entity said:
You may want to look at what Wright did last year. he damn near averaged a double double when he got over 20 min. He is a great rebounding SF as good as Bonzi was a rebounding SG. Wright is also a good weak side shot blocker. Not in the Josh Smith or Gerald Wallace fold yet but, he could be one day. he is next level at least. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2OBlLV9itI&mode=related&search=
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OK, I went through the whole season log of his games played. He did have a few nice games. He played alot early and then he didn't play much later on. Can't knock down the 3 at this point. Has a good shooting %. As far as a great rebounding SF....I'll say he showed some potential to average lots of rebounds.....he also didn't rebound on occasion. Great rebounders are consistent, he wasn't. Then again he's only 21. The comparisons to Smith and Wallace....sure, I would agree with how you said it.

Now as I said, wait a month into the season for a trade like this. But the package being talked about in this deal of Wright, an ender, and the stiffs of Cook or Simien. Not for me at this point. Do we really need an ender for Artest's contract? No. Would we like to get something for him? Yes. Should we get more back than the stated package? Hell yes. I'm stating that at this point, perhaps we should let Artest and Theus see if they can get on the same page as Artest and Adelman. It's not like he has a crappy contract.
 
Greenspan 101

Greenspan 101

G-League
#29
#29
I think trading for any veteran from the Miami Heat would be a mistake. If they have mediocre production alongside Shaq and the team gets knocked out of the playoffs in the first round in the East, what does that suggest about the impact they'd make here?

Then again if we get rid of KT, I won't complain (unless Antoine Walker's involved).
 
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