Kings draft Spencer Hawes: Discussion

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Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#211
#211
shoulepiou said:
The Kings problem is not Hawes, but it is Miller+Rahim+Thomas
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The new problem being that after they are gone, Hawes could very well just be a new Miller/Reef hybrid.

I dunno, I go back and forth a little here, but this is the frontcourt in traditional big man skills:

Post play/Rebounding/Interior Defense

Miller -- N/N/N
Reef -- Y/N/N
Kenny -- N/Y/N
-------------------
Hawes -- Y/N/N


That's not a sea change.
 
Double-K

Double-K

Starter
#212
#212
BRad1055 said:
Koz said the kings tried very hard all day to move up to the 8th pick to draft Noah, but it just didnt work out. They tried to swap picks and give the Cats a future draft pick. Koz said I dont know why they wanted Noah all he is is a poor man's Jerome Williams those guys are a dime a dozen and I agree.
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No way, man. I like Noah a lot. He's a winner.
 
nbrans

nbrans

All-Star
#214
#214
VF21 said:
So you're just gonna consider him a lost cause before he even gets here? Just as a reminder - a lot of people were ready to write Kevin Martin off, too.

Why not just wait and see what happens?
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The problem is that I'm not even really thrilled with the best case scenario -- he develops into a good post scorer with limitations on rebounding and defense. The old problems still remain. I'm an optimist, but when I look at an ugly best case scenario even I get depressed.
 
Henkel

Henkel

Starter
#215
#215
hammystyle said:
My point is that if his low-post skill was really that impressive, I would expect it to manifest itself in something better than 15ppg on 53% shooting. 15 ppg is fine, I would just think he should score more efficiently than that if he's really that advanced. My guess is that his lack of athleticism prevents him from getting easy points off explosive plays aournd the rims (dunks, ORB, etc.). So the only way Hawes can even SURVIVE is by using an impressive display of moves.

BTW - I wouldn't pick those stats apart that much if he brought other things to the table, but he doesn't.

BTW2 - All the players you mentioned shot over 60% from the field. Except for maybe Horford they're all considered pretty raw offensively. How did they do it?....Athleticism and explosive plays around the rim.

I think the pick sucks, but I hope I'm wrong.
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Lets not forget that Wright, Hordford, and Noah also got alot of those easy looks playing very talent teams with guards who created dunks and layups for them. Hawes didn't have that. Id rather have a productive low post big then a big whos offense is predicated on garbage or hustle baskets.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#217
#217
Al Horford freshman year 6.5 reb
Jokiam Noah freshman year 2.1 reb 7.1 soph. year (the year most said he would have been #1 pick)
Brandan Wright freshman year 6.2 reb
Al thorton senior year only 7.2
Thad youg freashman 4.2

Spencer Hawes 6.4 reb freshman year.

I'd say he was right on pace with any big we could have gotten outside of Oden. Hawes is just better on offense so therefore he was able to enter the draft. Had Noah or Horford been as good on offense their freshman year they would have went averageing fewer than 7 reb per game as well.

Point being don't put to much stock in that 6.4 reb per game
 
S

Smills91

Starter
#219
#219
Entity said:
Al Horford freshman year 6.5 reb
Jokiam Noah freshman year 2.1 reb 7.1 soph. year (the year most said he would have been #1 pick)
Brandan Wright freshman year 6.2 reb
Al thorton senior year only 7.2
Thad youg freashman 4.2

Spencer Hawes 6.4 reb freshman year.

I'd say he was right on pace with any big we could have gotten outside of Oden. Hawes is just better on offense so therefore he was able to enter the draft. Had Noah or Horford been as good on offense their freshman year they would have went averageing fewer than 7 reb per game as well.

Point being don't put to much stock in that 6.4 reb per game
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Excellent post.
 
JoMama

JoMama

Bench
#220
#220
Entity said:
Al Horford freshman year 6.5 reb
Jokiam Noah freshman year 2.1 reb 7.1 soph. year (the year most said he would have been #1 pick)
Brandan Wright freshman year 6.2 reb
Al thorton senior year only 7.2
Thad youg freashman 4.2

Spencer Hawes 6.4 reb freshman year.

I'd say he was right on pace with any big we could have gotten outside of Oden. Hawes is just better on offense so therefore he was able to enter the draft. Had Noah or Horford been as good on offense their freshman year they would have went averageing fewer than 7 reb per game as well.

Point being don't put to much stock in that 6.4 reb per game
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With zero hops, how many boards will Hawes get shoulder-to-shoulder with NBA leapers? College is a way different level than the NBA.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#221
#221
Smills91 said:
Excellent post.
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oh I could go on Jason Smith was 6.2 on and on and on

Not many freshman centers get 8 to 10 reb per game. Alson not many freshman centers have the brains and ability to score the ways that Hawes scores in the post. Again he is only 19 and learned that either on his own or some high school coach??? I don't think so. Imagine what he could learn from NBA trainers and coaches. Maybe rebound positioning I dunno. I am not going to write him off because he didn't get 10 reb per game a freshman?? thats insane
 
G_M

G_M

Starter
#222
#222
nbrans said:
The problem is that I'm not even really thrilled with the best case scenario -- he develops into a good post scorer with limitations on rebounding and defense. The old problems still remain. I'm an optimist, but when I look at an ugly best case scenario even I get depressed.
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I'm not sure that at 19 years old you can accurately project a best case scenario. It seems to me that he has potential to be more of a Kaman type of player than Miller.

If you can move your feet you can play defense. This guy has agility that Miller simply does not and never has had. Will it translate in the NBA-----not sure.....
 
Widowmaker2k

Widowmaker2k

Bench
#223
#223
Sacramento Kings: Hello Worst-Case Scenario, I'm the Sacramento Kings!
Worse-Case Scenario: Oh, we've met before.

But seriously, it's hard to get excited about this pick, but I'm not ready to write him off just yet. I'd be tempted to start both Hawes and Justin Williams next year and see if they can cover up each others weaknesses. It's a long shot for sure, but who knows, Williams can play D, rebound and block shots, and Hawes can score the ball (though, forcing two players to do the work of one is bad basketball).
 
C

cfechter

Bench
#224
#224
"And now selecting 10th, the Sacramento Kings pick Todd Fuller, er....Robert Swift, er....Joe Kleine?? Dammit, what stiff did they pick, oh that's right, Spencer Hawes!"

It's almost as if Petrie morphed into DAnny Ainge for a few minutes and picked the one player that did nothing to solve any of our most pressing needs. i noticed VF21 said we need to wait and see, which I totally agree on, but besides picking a player that does nothing to solve our needs, this pick also gives the fans no reason to get excited in the off-season. You give me Al Thornton, you give me hope, you give me Julian Wright, you give me hope, you give me Spencer Hawes, you give me another Joe Kleine and a depressing summer.
 
nbrans

nbrans

All-Star
#226
#226
G_M said:
I'm not sure that at 19 years old you can accurately project a best case scenario. It seems to me that he has potential to be more of a Kaman type of player than Miller.

If you can move your feet you can play defense. This guy has agility that Miller simply does not and never has had. Will it translate in the NBA-----not sure.....
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This is exactly what I'm talking about -- I'm supposed to be excited about another Kaman???
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#227
#227
JoMama said:
With zero hops, how many boards will Hawes get shoulder-to-shoulder with NBA leapers? College is a way different level than the NBA.
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Then what is the other guys i mentioned excuses if they have the "hops" you speak of they didn't do any better than Hawes. I guess they are just stupid then. The higher you can jump and the more you dunk the dumber you are and don't know how to use it?
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#228
#228
nbrans said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about -- I'm supposed to be excited about another Kaman???
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What would have made you excited??? You seem to just want quantity like the post about Philly having all those. Hawes is better than any of those 3. Remember can't play 3 ppl at on position at the same time.
 
G_M

G_M

Starter
#229
#229
nbrans said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about -- I'm supposed to be excited about another Kaman???
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It depends on what is placed around him. You can't undo all the crappy things that happened to close out the season. Apparently, the Kings tried to move up to the 8 spot but it didn't work out.

I'm not buying season tickets based on the Hawes pick but I'm hopeful this will work out.
 
nbrans

nbrans

All-Star
#230
#230
Entity said:
What would have made you excited??? You seem to just want quantity like the post about Philly having all those. Hawes is better than any of those 3. Remember can't play 3 ppl at on position at the same time.
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No, I wanted quality -- I would have been much happier with Young or Smith at the 10 than Hawes because I think they'll ultimately be better players.
 
Sac.Kings

Sac.Kings

All-Star
#231
#231
nbrans said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about -- I'm supposed to be excited about another Kaman???
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I wouldnt worry about being excited about him. He plays the type of basketball that Duncan plays-- Fundementals. However his style is nothing like Duncan apart from the fundementals. He has more moves and seems somewhat quicker. There is no way i can be excited about another Kaman, but im not looking to be. I was hoping we would draft someone that can help us win in the future and if petrie thinks he can then im all for it. We have our work cut out though thats for sure. A lot more weeknesses to be addressed. at least he doesnt have kaman's hair....
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#235
#235
Entity said:
Why? What attributes do they poses that is miles ahead of Hawes in your eyes???
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Much higher upsides, extreme athleticism, for their positions. Neither are a sure thing at all, both have the potential to be major factors, and aren't going to be held back by being a high school level athlete.
 
Henkel

Henkel

Starter
#236
#236
nbrans said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about -- I'm supposed to be excited about another Kaman???
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Kaman is a top 10 center in this league. With centers being hard to come by ill take a top 10 player at the position for the next 10+ years. I don't know if i find that exciting but who at the 10 spot was going to excite you.
 
nbrans

nbrans

All-Star
#237
#237
Henkel said:
Kaman is a top 10 center in this league. With centers being hard to come by ill take a top 10 player at the position for the next 10+ years. I don't know if i find that exciting but who at the 10 spot was going to excite you.
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Uh, no. Duncan, Yao, Ilgauskas, Wallace, Howard, Curry, Shaq, Amare, Okur, Okafor, and that's just off the top of my head. Kaman is not good.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#238
#238
Bricklayer said:
Much higher upsides, extreme athleticism, for their positions. Neither are a sure thing at all, both have the potential to be major factors, and aren't going to be held back by being a high school level athlete.
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Same was said about Stromile Swift. ppl talk about the White Stiff which i am growing tired of that racist comment. They named quite a few. Now name how many Black extremely atletic players are now sitting at home getting fat because they couldn't do anything but jump high and run fast. Its stupid to think athletic ability means better basketball player just stupid.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#239
#239
I don't mind Kaman, think he might even be top 10 again if he gets his head back on straight. But that level of guy, a "Top 10" cneter when you actually mean he's about #10, isn't winning many games for you. You notice Kaman is always in the lottery right? Brad was "Top 10" once too. Not impact guys.

I'm going to keep on squinting trying to see Hawes be so devastating in the post that he gets 18-20 and is worth it despite the general one-dimesnaionality, but if I squint any harder my eyes will jsut shut and I will be operating on blind faith.
 
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