You seriously think drafting another SF will do anything for us? Al Thornton isnt gonna be able to guard Duncan, or any of the elite big men. At least Hawes has the size to stand up to them. We have no young viable options at the 4 or 5 besides Justin WIlliams, and he is probably more of a PF. Hawes and Williams are going to be the PF and C of the future and maybe even next year.
Kings draft Spencer Hawes: Discussion
- Thread starter ReinadelosReys
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I'm afraid our sitation is back to the point that we're nto worth talking about anymore. Truly back to the bad ole days. Shan't be long until I'm back to getting my one contrqacturally obligated national TV game a year to watch (of course now there is league pass, so times are better...depdning on how you look at an "opportunity" to watch these guys 
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Look at the bright side, we'll actually be able to afford season tickets again.
See, and that is exactly my problem. If Geoff's idea of re-building is to try to re-create our championship run team of yesteryear with a collection of poor-man's versions of Peja, Christie, Bibby, Webber, Vlade, and Bobby than we're in for a lot of losing. First of all, it's a mistake to think that any player is going to recreate what some other player gave you. People make that mistake every year when analyzing the draft. These are unique players. Even if they have a similar style or body type, they have totally different backgrounds and personalities. You can't predict what someone's career arc is going to be simply because they remind you of 'player x' at the same age. We'll never have another Doug Christie or another Peja or another Vlade, Webber, or Bobby Jackson. Surely it's time to move on and come up with a new vision. Kevin Martin is not Peja. Cisco is not Doug Christie. Quincy Douby is not Bobby Jackson. Spencer Hawes is not Brad Miller or Vlade. They just aren't. They can play the same roles as those players, sure, but will they play them as well? Nobody is going to be as good of a Doug Christie as Doug Christie was. That should be self-evident. And the same goes for the rest of them. So then shouldn't we be more concerned about what role these guys are going to play on this team rather than trying to cast them as the 2002 Kings and hope they can play the part?
Secondly, that team was built around a superstar. A #1 overall pick. If your strategy for re-building revolves around getting two lottery picks next year, than you've messed up your pick. If your plan revolves around you winning the lottery and drafting a franchise player with the first overall pick than you've messed up your pick. It's not like we were picking 28th here, we had the 10th overall pick in one of the deepest drafts ever. If you don't come out of that with a major building block, than you've messed up. Spencer Hawes is a major building block, I'd just prefer that he was someone else's major building block. Let some other team build around him for 10 years, get nowhere, and then be right back where they started. It's funny to me that people are calling him a top 10 center. Brad Miller this year almost qualifies as a top 10 center. The depth at center is terrible in the NBA right now. Chris Kaman? The Clippers aren't going anywhere with Chris Kaman. Ilgauskas? He's playing alongside Lebron and they still can't beat a Spurs team with 3 good players on it. The teams who are actually winning have got impact players in the middle, without fail. If we actually want to be a contender, we're going to have to upgrade at C or luck into a monster at PF. I wouldn't bet my franchise on the latter. So why not draft a player with your 10th pick who you actually can build around? Maybe an All-Star SF is a better use of your pick than a "top 10" center who compares favorably to Chris Kaman.
I see where you're going with the last paragraph. This is one piece out of a major re-building effort. We're still just trying to collect talent right now while waiting for the right opportunity to come along (like a Richmond for Webber deal). I can see that, and that's a decent strategy. My main point of contention is that this move sends the wrong message. It tells me that our front office is satisfied with mediocrity. It tells me they're willing to drop the bar a little lower so we can at least be a better team than 33 wins. I don't want to see that. I want to see them gut everything and re-build a team from the ground up that can contend for a championship. Maybe it takes 5 years of slow concentrated effort, but at least you're building towards something instead of treading water. This is a move designed to cover us when Brad Miller is either gone or ineffective. Solid move. Responsible. But it gets us nowhere. We're still just treading water.
And lastly, I have serious issues with the composition of players we're putting together. I love Kevin Martin. We have the same birthday. He's like my basketball brother -- but let's be honest about what we've got here. He's a steal for a guy drafted in the end of the first round but a franchise player he is not. For all his growth as an assertive scorer last year, he's still a one dimensional player. When he's not making shots, how is he really contributing out there? Now look at Spencer Hawes. Yes he is 19, yes he will undoubtedly get better. But, realistically, what do you see as his best-case scenario? Even if he improves the rebounding, he's not going to out-rebound the speciailists in this league (of which there are many). Dwight Howard and Greg Oden and Emeka Okafor and Marcus Camby and even Tyson Chandler are going to destory him on the boards. Against average players he'll hold his own. Is he going to stop any determined NBA offensive players in the low post? He'll put his hands up and block a few meaningless shots, but the people who understand the value of shotblocking understand it's not about the stats. It's about altering shots and intimidating on the inside. Spencer Hawes will never give you that. He doesn't have the reach or the jumping ability nor has he ever shown exceptional timing. So even at his best Hawes is going to be a one-dimensional player. An elite scorer in the low post at his peak who can play within an offense and move the ball. So now we've got two out of 5 key rotation players who are basically one-dimensional scorers. Are you excited yet, because I'm not. Then you can factor in our other young stars like Garcia and Douby and Justin Williams (who I really like) and Ronnie Price. That's not a championship team, that's a lottery team. At their best.
Maybe we just need to wait around for our lucky star to come up and drop a franchise player at our doorstep. Worked for Portland and the Cavs. Maybe that's the only way anyone wins a championship in this star-dominated league. But if that's your argument, it still doesn't make Hawes a good pick. It just makes him as irrelevant as everyone else on our team. Mediocre PG+Mediocre SG+Mediocre SF+Mediocre C+"super amazing dominant PF who we don't have yet" is not a good roster. And if all we need to turn this thing around is 10 years of last place followed by a #1 overall pick, than wake me up when we win the lottery because everything else is a waste of time. I, for one, think we can do better. Or at least I did. Now I'm not so sure. We certainly could have done better.
PS - This is unrelated, but I notice your signature says "bring back Jerome James". I think Isiah Thomas would happily trade us Jerome James for a bucket of KFC right now and then laugh all the way to the bank. I didn't factor that into your analysis here, and I'm not intending to pick on you, but...wha?!
Secondly, that team was built around a superstar. A #1 overall pick. If your strategy for re-building revolves around getting two lottery picks next year, than you've messed up your pick. If your plan revolves around you winning the lottery and drafting a franchise player with the first overall pick than you've messed up your pick. It's not like we were picking 28th here, we had the 10th overall pick in one of the deepest drafts ever. If you don't come out of that with a major building block, than you've messed up. Spencer Hawes is a major building block, I'd just prefer that he was someone else's major building block. Let some other team build around him for 10 years, get nowhere, and then be right back where they started. It's funny to me that people are calling him a top 10 center. Brad Miller this year almost qualifies as a top 10 center. The depth at center is terrible in the NBA right now. Chris Kaman? The Clippers aren't going anywhere with Chris Kaman. Ilgauskas? He's playing alongside Lebron and they still can't beat a Spurs team with 3 good players on it. The teams who are actually winning have got impact players in the middle, without fail. If we actually want to be a contender, we're going to have to upgrade at C or luck into a monster at PF. I wouldn't bet my franchise on the latter. So why not draft a player with your 10th pick who you actually can build around? Maybe an All-Star SF is a better use of your pick than a "top 10" center who compares favorably to Chris Kaman.
I see where you're going with the last paragraph. This is one piece out of a major re-building effort. We're still just trying to collect talent right now while waiting for the right opportunity to come along (like a Richmond for Webber deal). I can see that, and that's a decent strategy. My main point of contention is that this move sends the wrong message. It tells me that our front office is satisfied with mediocrity. It tells me they're willing to drop the bar a little lower so we can at least be a better team than 33 wins. I don't want to see that. I want to see them gut everything and re-build a team from the ground up that can contend for a championship. Maybe it takes 5 years of slow concentrated effort, but at least you're building towards something instead of treading water. This is a move designed to cover us when Brad Miller is either gone or ineffective. Solid move. Responsible. But it gets us nowhere. We're still just treading water.
And lastly, I have serious issues with the composition of players we're putting together. I love Kevin Martin. We have the same birthday. He's like my basketball brother -- but let's be honest about what we've got here. He's a steal for a guy drafted in the end of the first round but a franchise player he is not. For all his growth as an assertive scorer last year, he's still a one dimensional player. When he's not making shots, how is he really contributing out there? Now look at Spencer Hawes. Yes he is 19, yes he will undoubtedly get better. But, realistically, what do you see as his best-case scenario? Even if he improves the rebounding, he's not going to out-rebound the speciailists in this league (of which there are many). Dwight Howard and Greg Oden and Emeka Okafor and Marcus Camby and even Tyson Chandler are going to destory him on the boards. Against average players he'll hold his own. Is he going to stop any determined NBA offensive players in the low post? He'll put his hands up and block a few meaningless shots, but the people who understand the value of shotblocking understand it's not about the stats. It's about altering shots and intimidating on the inside. Spencer Hawes will never give you that. He doesn't have the reach or the jumping ability nor has he ever shown exceptional timing. So even at his best Hawes is going to be a one-dimensional player. An elite scorer in the low post at his peak who can play within an offense and move the ball. So now we've got two out of 5 key rotation players who are basically one-dimensional scorers. Are you excited yet, because I'm not. Then you can factor in our other young stars like Garcia and Douby and Justin Williams (who I really like) and Ronnie Price. That's not a championship team, that's a lottery team. At their best.
Maybe we just need to wait around for our lucky star to come up and drop a franchise player at our doorstep. Worked for Portland and the Cavs. Maybe that's the only way anyone wins a championship in this star-dominated league. But if that's your argument, it still doesn't make Hawes a good pick. It just makes him as irrelevant as everyone else on our team. Mediocre PG+Mediocre SG+Mediocre SF+Mediocre C+"super amazing dominant PF who we don't have yet" is not a good roster. And if all we need to turn this thing around is 10 years of last place followed by a #1 overall pick, than wake me up when we win the lottery because everything else is a waste of time. I, for one, think we can do better. Or at least I did. Now I'm not so sure. We certainly could have done better.
PS - This is unrelated, but I notice your signature says "bring back Jerome James". I think Isiah Thomas would happily trade us Jerome James for a bucket of KFC right now and then laugh all the way to the bank. I didn't factor that into your analysis here, and I'm not intending to pick on you, but...wha?!
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I wonder if Milwaukee fans were having the same kind of discussion immediately after they took a center, Andrew Bogut #1 overall in the 2005 draft? Did they have buyers remorse as soon as his rookie season started or looked around by year two realizing they could have had hot shot back court stars Deron Williams or Chris Paul or even front court potential stars Andrew Bynum or Channing Frye? Would King fans be disappointed if Spencer Hawes has a rookie campaign like Bogut - although his second year showed good improvement? The bottom line is, if Hawes works into a center at the rough level of a Kaman, Bogut, or Bynum in his first couple of years especially as a teenager - there's long-term hope. Getting back to Milwaukee. Maybe Yi Jianlian stiffs the Bucks and we can get into the bidding for that 7'0 "teenager."
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I just looked up Chris Kaman's college stats, since everyone appears to be willing to compare Hawes to him, a lot of similarities, except for the fact that Kaman averaged 50% more points, and double the rebounds that Hawes did.
Again, I'm hoping for a solid "Brad Lohaus" type player with what we got.
Again, I'm hoping for a solid "Brad Lohaus" type player with what we got.
I can't even begin to explain but I can hazard a guess - I would think they figured no harm/ no foul as far as Sacramento was concerned because they really thought Yi would go way before #10, which he did. I suspect there was a lot of attempted maneuvering for draft positions of some teams that we never heard about.
Being in the NBA is something to brag about, when you get right down to it.
We weren't expecting a franchise player out of this draft. Before tonight, everyone was pretty much in agreement we'd get a player that needed to develop. Now, all of a sudden, everyone's convinced Hawes is a washout before he's even stepped off the plane? He was projected by virtually everyone to go in the first half of the first round. That's pretty bleeping good no matter how you cut it. AND he's only 19 years old.
We weren't expecting a franchise player out of this draft. Before tonight, everyone was pretty much in agreement we'd get a player that needed to develop. Now, all of a sudden, everyone's convinced Hawes is a washout before he's even stepped off the plane? He was projected by virtually everyone to go in the first half of the first round. That's pretty bleeping good no matter how you cut it. AND he's only 19 years old.
Our team is NOT made up of all worthless players. We actually have talent. Much of it was not utilized properly last season. Many of the players do not work well together but would fit in nicely elsewhere. I say that we give Petrie more time to work out some trades, then give Theus time to get the guys working together. I am excited about next season. I believe that we have just begun the LONG climb back to the top.
The overall consensus seems to be that Spencer Hawes was a terrible choice, and that Wright or anybody with a 35" vert would of been ideal... Frankly, I'm disgusted at the lack of faith this fan base seems to have for a guy, that, plain and simply, knows what the hell he's doing in Geoff Petrie.
Now I know that a lot of us think we could run the Kings front office with ease, but that aside, Hawes could end up being a very valuable contributer at the 5 for years to come, putting up solid numbers in the post for a team that sorely needs interior scoring.
He might not be the best defender or athlete, but the guy seems intelligent enough to work on his game and play smart enough to where he'll be at least an adequate post/help defender that can decently block shots, ala Vlade Divac, except a little quicker. DO NOT give up on Petrie or Hawes until you actually see the kid perform on the NBA level, and then, and ONLY THEN, can you declare him the next Shawn Bradley!
Petrie's a smart guy, and if he didn't see something in Hawes (especially considering his tenitiveness to draft big guys) then he wouldn't be wearing purple and white, period.
Now I know that a lot of us think we could run the Kings front office with ease, but that aside, Hawes could end up being a very valuable contributer at the 5 for years to come, putting up solid numbers in the post for a team that sorely needs interior scoring.
He might not be the best defender or athlete, but the guy seems intelligent enough to work on his game and play smart enough to where he'll be at least an adequate post/help defender that can decently block shots, ala Vlade Divac, except a little quicker. DO NOT give up on Petrie or Hawes until you actually see the kid perform on the NBA level, and then, and ONLY THEN, can you declare him the next Shawn Bradley!
Petrie's a smart guy, and if he didn't see something in Hawes (especially considering his tenitiveness to draft big guys) then he wouldn't be wearing purple and white, period.
Exactly. A rebuild is more like a marathon than a sprint. It's not just going to flash from one to the next. Especially with the situation we are in.
But you always have a percentage of the people that seek instant gratification. Al Thornton or Julian Wright or any of the others might have been more interesting to watch while we rebuild, but I guarantee that if we become a contender with Hawes as our center, all the naysayers won't be heard, because they will be constantly chocking on their words.
Bottom line: The kid hasn't even put on our jersey and touched a baskeball at the same time yet and we already have people proclaiming his future and the future of this organization. Look, I know eveyone is nostro-friggin-damus, but enough with the predicting of the future. If you have your reservations about the kid, so be it. But for pete's sake lay off the hasty predictions.
But you always have a percentage of the people that seek instant gratification. Al Thornton or Julian Wright or any of the others might have been more interesting to watch while we rebuild, but I guarantee that if we become a contender with Hawes as our center, all the naysayers won't be heard, because they will be constantly chocking on their words.
Bottom line: The kid hasn't even put on our jersey and touched a baskeball at the same time yet and we already have people proclaiming his future and the future of this organization. Look, I know eveyone is nostro-friggin-damus, but enough with the predicting of the future. If you have your reservations about the kid, so be it. But for pete's sake lay off the hasty predictions.
People say he was a really weak rebounder but this was his freshman year and hes only 19 and add on he was on captain John Brockmans team who is a monster on the glass he averaged 9.6 for the season. Give Spencer a year to fill out, year to learn all the proper techniques and he will be a solid defender and rebounder. Spencers standing reach was 9'2 one of the highest in the draft second too Odens and a 7 foot wingspan, he could not be in a better position in Sacramento where Miller can mentor him like Vlade did to Miller and teach him the ways of the big man which Spencer is already specializing in. Most of all Spencers passing ability will compliment our efficient scorer Martin.
Spencer is our future center and I love the idea, if hes anywhere near Miller or Vlade in there prime I will be happy, he definitley has the potential,work ethic,situation and brains to do it so things are looking up for him.
Also note that Theus ran a princeton offence in New Mexico State and thats the type of offence Hawes' game is meant for.
Spencer is our future center and I love the idea, if hes anywhere near Miller or Vlade in there prime I will be happy, he definitley has the potential,work ethic,situation and brains to do it so things are looking up for him.
Also note that Theus ran a princeton offence in New Mexico State and thats the type of offence Hawes' game is meant for.
I think 'instant gratification' would be drafting for need instead of picking the player most likely to turn into an All-Star at their position, which is just what we seem to have done. It's not just about having a team that's fun to watch while they lose, it's about rebuilding the identity of this team. You've got 7 or 8 main rotation players with which to establish an identity. If you're okay with one, then maybe two, then maybe three of them not being any good at defense you'll inevitably end up with the worst defensive team in the league again. Is that where you still want to be when this re-build is supposedly complete?
This is actually a considerably sophisticated "State of the Kings" address, almost worthy of its own thread, and certainly a solid starting off point for "what now" type discussions.
I very much agree with your general concerns, and the implications of them:
C -- one dimensional post scorer, has to work to become adequate at rest of game
PF -- ?
SF -- ?
OG -- one dimesnsional perimeter scorer, has to work to become adequate at rest of game
PG -- ?
So taking those as the two young centerpieces, this would be what we would need:
1) big rebounder/shotblocker at PF
2) goto #1 option (assume that the C and OG are good enoguh right now as #2/#3 options)
3) passing/defending PG, since no defensive help in middle
4) swingman type at SF, defensive oriented, needs to be able to guard toughest OG/SF matchup
The closest comparison I can come to is the 90's Indiana Pacers with Reggie at OG and Smits in the middle (and doesn't it seem we are always tailing after the Pacers in also ran fashion anymore. Two small relatively rural franchises, never with major stars, swapping lesser players, rising and falling together, never getting over the hump). They filled in with the Davis brothers as rebounders/shotblockers at PF, with a versatile defensive specialist (McKey) at SF, and with a pass first, albeit defenseless, PG in Mark Jackson.
And they were good (maybe we should have hired Larry brown after all). But not THAT good. And never good enough. And their failure to ever find that true #1 weapon meant that they never really seriously threatened a ring. Its just not a title structure wihtout one added megaplayer. And that was with them having Reggie as a cheat (Reggie was just an overrated scrawny little 20ppg scorer regular season, but transformed into an almost #1 option in the playoffs).
In any case, at present we could fill in with PF -- Justin, SF -- Cisco, PG -- ??? to recreate the balance, but obviously at a fraction of the talent/experience which still only had that team winning 48-54 games or so. Or maybe Justin is the Antonio Davis character, and Dale Davis has to be added from outside. 10pt 10reb 2blk beast. And a top pass first PG has to be added. I would consider at least giving Cisco a shot at that SF spot. a dn Justin as the backup 4/5. But everything else has to be radically upgraded/swapped out to make two major one dimesnsional pillars have any chance even to be a consistent playoff team. Puts tremendous pressure on the remaining trio of players to truly do it all when you've got multiple starting specialists.
May not matter anyway. Unless we find a way to escape from the West and Portland's orbit we mgiht be stuck playing the Washington Generals until Hawes and Kevin are old and gray anyway.
I very much agree with your general concerns, and the implications of them:
C -- one dimensional post scorer, has to work to become adequate at rest of game
PF -- ?
SF -- ?
OG -- one dimesnsional perimeter scorer, has to work to become adequate at rest of game
PG -- ?
So taking those as the two young centerpieces, this would be what we would need:
1) big rebounder/shotblocker at PF
2) goto #1 option (assume that the C and OG are good enoguh right now as #2/#3 options)
3) passing/defending PG, since no defensive help in middle
4) swingman type at SF, defensive oriented, needs to be able to guard toughest OG/SF matchup
The closest comparison I can come to is the 90's Indiana Pacers with Reggie at OG and Smits in the middle (and doesn't it seem we are always tailing after the Pacers in also ran fashion anymore. Two small relatively rural franchises, never with major stars, swapping lesser players, rising and falling together, never getting over the hump). They filled in with the Davis brothers as rebounders/shotblockers at PF, with a versatile defensive specialist (McKey) at SF, and with a pass first, albeit defenseless, PG in Mark Jackson.
And they were good (maybe we should have hired Larry brown after all). But not THAT good. And never good enough. And their failure to ever find that true #1 weapon meant that they never really seriously threatened a ring. Its just not a title structure wihtout one added megaplayer. And that was with them having Reggie as a cheat (Reggie was just an overrated scrawny little 20ppg scorer regular season, but transformed into an almost #1 option in the playoffs).
In any case, at present we could fill in with PF -- Justin, SF -- Cisco, PG -- ??? to recreate the balance, but obviously at a fraction of the talent/experience which still only had that team winning 48-54 games or so. Or maybe Justin is the Antonio Davis character, and Dale Davis has to be added from outside. 10pt 10reb 2blk beast. And a top pass first PG has to be added. I would consider at least giving Cisco a shot at that SF spot. a dn Justin as the backup 4/5. But everything else has to be radically upgraded/swapped out to make two major one dimesnsional pillars have any chance even to be a consistent playoff team. Puts tremendous pressure on the remaining trio of players to truly do it all when you've got multiple starting specialists.
May not matter anyway. Unless we find a way to escape from the West and Portland's orbit we mgiht be stuck playing the Washington Generals until Hawes and Kevin are old and gray anyway.
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Again with the predicting the future.
Worst defensive team? Because of 1 player who didn't block a bunch of shots in 1 year of college and all of high-school? That is a bit of a stretch to go from one player who isn't a defensive specialist to worst defensive team in the league. I guess we are doomed.
So what did you want? An athletic PF who can score, rebound and block shots? Me too. But not available at the 10th this year.
How many players are fully polished defensively when they enter the league? Try a rare few. Even Greg Oden is going to get owned by guys like Duncan and Staudemire for a while. Corey Brewer, probably the best defensive player for his position in this draft. Doesn't mean squat until he proves it against Kobe, AI, LeBron, etc night in and night out.
And is all you want defense? Just 5 defenders? No scorers? Not me. I want a well rounded team.
You can't draft 5 players with 1, #10 pick.
Worst defensive team? Because of 1 player who didn't block a bunch of shots in 1 year of college and all of high-school? That is a bit of a stretch to go from one player who isn't a defensive specialist to worst defensive team in the league. I guess we are doomed.
So what did you want? An athletic PF who can score, rebound and block shots? Me too. But not available at the 10th this year.
How many players are fully polished defensively when they enter the league? Try a rare few. Even Greg Oden is going to get owned by guys like Duncan and Staudemire for a while. Corey Brewer, probably the best defensive player for his position in this draft. Doesn't mean squat until he proves it against Kobe, AI, LeBron, etc night in and night out.
And is all you want defense? Just 5 defenders? No scorers? Not me. I want a well rounded team.
You can't draft 5 players with 1, #10 pick.
No, but you can tremendously limit your options by doing so.
A complete team needs to have a primary passer, normally a secondary passer, one very good rebounder, normally a second solid/strong rebounder, one great defender, one or more good assistants, etc.
When you already have 2/5 of your theoretical future starting lineup accounted for, and those 2/5 are both basically one dimesnional scorers. That's it. They only do the one thing, that means that out of those other three spots you have to get all of your passers, defenders, rebounders, shotblockers etc. That puts tremendous pressure on those other positions. That's before we get to one of them having to be a true superstar type to make Kevin/Hawes ito a solid supproting Rip/Big Z type #2/#3 guys. That's also before you try to figure out how to construct the remainder of the team when 1 cornerstone wants to run, and the other wants to plod. Built in tension.
If Hawes is your center, you almost do not have an option (if you're going to b elite of course), you HAVFE to find a PF who grabs 10reb a night and blocks shots. How many of those guys are there in the league? Your SF HAS to be able to defend. Your PG HAS to be able to defend, and has to be able to run the offense given that Kevin is not really a creator for others, your center is a screr, adn your PF is a thug. Onyl once in a Webber/KG guys come along who can rebound. block shots, AND run the offense from the PF spot.
It makes it hard, and conttantly cuts down on your possible routes to success. I said BEFORE the draft that we had been chokling on one dimensional scorers for years, Bibby, Peja, Reef, Kevin etc. and it was a major problem. Then you add another.
I think you are under-rating Hawes' ability to create. If you use him in a similar fashin that Divac and Miller were used under Adelman, you have a creator and someone you can run your offense through.
Granted he does have his weaknesses and it just happens his weaknesses are those of the team thats picking him.
You are right though is saying that our PF has to be a 10rpg player and a genuine shot blocker. Finding one of those is easier said than done.
Granted he does have his weaknesses and it just happens his weaknesses are those of the team thats picking him.
You are right though is saying that our PF has to be a 10rpg player and a genuine shot blocker. Finding one of those is easier said than done.
I think Hawes will be able to create. He's got passing hands from everything I've read, and that will work well with the slashing style of basketball. So I wouldn't say he's 1-dimensional. But he certainly doesn't bring (m)any of the other inside player qualities a team needs to be successful.
I'm hoping at the least he will make good trade bait in a couple years if we end up drafting another C with the #1-#5 pick.
I'm hoping at the least he will make good trade bait in a couple years if we end up drafting another C with the #1-#5 pick.
You guys have to realize were not going to magically be in the finals just because we had the 10th pick. We had the 10th pick for a reason, were not that good of a team, we need to rebuild,and Hawes is a great start. Like it or not, the Kings were not going to go deep into the playoffs forever, its just not possible for any team to really do that. Every team has a period of time where they have off years, but with another good draft next year, we could be right back in the mix.
And obviously Hawes isnt going to shutdown Duncan or Shaq, but who does? Maybe Howard and Oden can slow them down, but those guys are both top picks. The Kings didnt have the #1 pick which is obviously why we werent able to get an athletic bigman. If the kings werent so dumb, we wouldnt have won that last game, and put ourselves in hte position where we had to draft Hawes.
We could have chosen from Yi Jianlian, B Wright and Noah if we were at the #6 spot, and everyone probably would have still complained.
And obviously Hawes isnt going to shutdown Duncan or Shaq, but who does? Maybe Howard and Oden can slow them down, but those guys are both top picks. The Kings didnt have the #1 pick which is obviously why we werent able to get an athletic bigman. If the kings werent so dumb, we wouldnt have won that last game, and put ourselves in hte position where we had to draft Hawes.
We could have chosen from Yi Jianlian, B Wright and Noah if we were at the #6 spot, and everyone probably would have still complained.
I also agree that hrdboild's post was brilliant, however if this is Petrie's strategy god help us all. I have been a Petrie apologist for as long as I can remember, but if he's trying to recreate a team of the past we're done for. The NBA has irrevocably changed. The last great Kings team was the last of an era -- the last time you could put together a team of non-elite athletes and hope to win it all.
We saw this change first with Peja -- in 2000 there weren't many good small forwards at all. Since then the position has been revolutionized by LeBron, Carmelo, Gerald Wallace, McGrady... it went from being almost an afterthought to the position with some of the greatest athletes in the league. Peja started looking like a dinosaur. He couldn't keep up.
Then you saw it with Bibby. In 2000 cement-footed Mark Jackson was a viable point guard. Now you have Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Leandro Barbosa, TJ Ford streaking down the court. Now Bibby looks like a dinosaur.
And I really think that this draft is going to be like those other epoch-changing drafts, only for bigs. Joakim Noah and Jason Smith have unprecedented 37.5" vertical leaps, higher than even Dwight Howard and they're both 7'0". Oden is an athletic freak. Horford is an athletic freak. Yi is a freak. Brandan Wright would look like more of a freak if he weren't surrounded by these uber-athletic freaks. They're going to change the way the center and power forward position is played.
My problem with a Hawes is that he's ALREADY a dinosuar, and he's only 19.
I don't know if you watched the McDonalds' All-American game a few years back, but Oden destroyed Hawes. There was a play where Hawes was spotting up for a jump shot and Oden came out of nowhere, met the shot at its peak and sent it back. It was sad. Hawes got some garbage points, but the athletic difference was eye-opening.
My biggest fear with Petrie is that he's such a traditionalist that he doesn't understand how the game has changed in the past 7 years. There's no going back to the past. These days you have to be an ahtlete first, then we'll start talking about skills. Maybe Hawes will buck that trend, but I have some serious doubts.
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