Kings draft Spencer Hawes: Discussion
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nbrans
All-Star
If Hawes averages 17 and 7 for a WCF team I'll eat my words.
Henkel
Starter
Amare and Okafor are not centers first of all and Kaman is far more productive then Ilgauskas. I feel Kaman is a top 10 center we disagree there but he is a very productive center which is what i see Hawes as.
Henkel
Starter
I think his point is that Hawes has the potential to get 7 rebounds a game, which is all it take to be a top 10 center.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
My concern is that Hawes is stuck behind Reef and KT. Or even moreso that both Reef and KT will still be here. That would certainly be a disappointment. Let the kids play!
Entity
Hall of Famer
NO NO NO Hawes is a center. KT/Sar are 6'8 PF's Hawes is a 7 foot center and is not behind them. If anything this means we keep Sar out of the center position.
captain bill
All-Star
Rebuilding did not end today
...and i don't think anyone here has really fully considered that, or given any sufficient context to analyzing this pick (although a few posts have done a pretty good job of at least alluding to this)
from the info on hawes the following is clear: he is a 19 year old 7 foot center with a very good offensive game, with post moves and a decent mid-range game, and a good passer, lacking in strength and a below-average rebounder and defender for what he could be, given he has a seven foot body.
now, it sucks that he's not going to help the teams rebounding and defense problems now, but that clearly is not at all why he was drafted- he's 19. he will not conceivably be a major impact player for 2-3 years at least. which means that we have to consider his role in light of what the team might look like in 2-3 years.
now lets consider a few more things: the young guys we have right now, and also the gm who will be trying to organize that youth into a competitive team at some point in the future. we now have
kevin martin, a high scoring guard who might contribute a little in terms of hustle, rebounding and passing, and a decent to good defensive effort on his man. but he's really in there for his points, and the fact taht he has some other good aspects to his game is a bonus.
gp likes for: the peja role. a very similar set of things taht each player brings to the table- one of the primary scoring options who, surrounded by a quality team, will do everything that he needs to, including defending his man.
garcia- hustle, defense, dirty work, and some points on occassion.
gp: the doug chrisite role- a great hard working player who can be a positivie influence in the locker room as well (garcia was drafted in large part because he was known as a very hard worker with a personal life that demonstrated the certain intangibles taht you want on your team)
douby- a backup guard who can score in bunches and bring tremendous energy off the bench. fills the bobby jackson type role of a guy who you bring in midway throught the first half to just tear through a tired out opponent.
together, these three could perform very well in the back court of the future, with games that complement each other nicely. a point guard is still needed, preferably one who could distribute well to his (multiple) scoring options, knock down his open shots, and play some d. that player was not in this draft.
now...the important part...the frontcourt.
the kings have been playing a 3 man rotation frontcourt for a long time- leading with webber, divac, and miller, but always having more depth there- guys like keon clark and scot pollard. what were the requirements of the rotation? webber was the lynchpin of the frontcourt- providing a serious scoring threat, being a solid rebounder, a good defender, and a smart passer with court vision. divac complemented taht, picking up rebounds, passing, scoring some points and doing some dirty work (whether flopping or hack-a-shacking) as needed- basically, getting by by being an intelligent player and working within the system. the third guys did a lot more of the dirtier work- energy off the bench, rebounding, blocks, and good enough skill on the defensive end to bang with the big boys (a la pollard vs shaq).
right now that frontcourt consists of justin williams and spencer hawes. williams can possibly be the dirty work guy- a solid defender, shot blocker and rebounder who scores a few points on occassion. hawes, if he lives up to his hype, will be a similar version of vlade, with a better offensive game, maybe not as good a defender or rebounder, but just as smart, meaning that he will be able to gel into a team game, make smart passes, and take smart fouls. which can, especially in the playoffs and big games, be just as important as being a slightly better defender or rebounder who loses his composure where it counts. playing smart is a lot more important than many people here seem to realize.
so this team is incomplete. we need a point guard, certainly. and also our stud in the middle, an all-star power forward to really fuel the team. but both those things are hard to come by, and we only has 1 pick, and it was the tenth. it will be another 2-3 years to really judge this deal, and the direction that this team is moving, but right now there are some good foundational pieces. maybe another 2, 3 bad years, a few more ping pong balls, and we might land the star to push us over the top. but until then, the best thing to do is prepare the right pieces for the day the next ? walks through the door, only instead of walking into a mess of hopefuls at each position, he can go to a team that maybe doesn't win a lot of games, but knows how to play the game right, and as a team, and will be ready to take that next step when the time comes.
that time is not today, or next season.
i hope that save some of you from destroying your computers tonight.
...and i don't think anyone here has really fully considered that, or given any sufficient context to analyzing this pick (although a few posts have done a pretty good job of at least alluding to this)
from the info on hawes the following is clear: he is a 19 year old 7 foot center with a very good offensive game, with post moves and a decent mid-range game, and a good passer, lacking in strength and a below-average rebounder and defender for what he could be, given he has a seven foot body.
now, it sucks that he's not going to help the teams rebounding and defense problems now, but that clearly is not at all why he was drafted- he's 19. he will not conceivably be a major impact player for 2-3 years at least. which means that we have to consider his role in light of what the team might look like in 2-3 years.
now lets consider a few more things: the young guys we have right now, and also the gm who will be trying to organize that youth into a competitive team at some point in the future. we now have
kevin martin, a high scoring guard who might contribute a little in terms of hustle, rebounding and passing, and a decent to good defensive effort on his man. but he's really in there for his points, and the fact taht he has some other good aspects to his game is a bonus.
gp likes for: the peja role. a very similar set of things taht each player brings to the table- one of the primary scoring options who, surrounded by a quality team, will do everything that he needs to, including defending his man.
garcia- hustle, defense, dirty work, and some points on occassion.
gp: the doug chrisite role- a great hard working player who can be a positivie influence in the locker room as well (garcia was drafted in large part because he was known as a very hard worker with a personal life that demonstrated the certain intangibles taht you want on your team)
douby- a backup guard who can score in bunches and bring tremendous energy off the bench. fills the bobby jackson type role of a guy who you bring in midway throught the first half to just tear through a tired out opponent.
together, these three could perform very well in the back court of the future, with games that complement each other nicely. a point guard is still needed, preferably one who could distribute well to his (multiple) scoring options, knock down his open shots, and play some d. that player was not in this draft.
now...the important part...the frontcourt.
the kings have been playing a 3 man rotation frontcourt for a long time- leading with webber, divac, and miller, but always having more depth there- guys like keon clark and scot pollard. what were the requirements of the rotation? webber was the lynchpin of the frontcourt- providing a serious scoring threat, being a solid rebounder, a good defender, and a smart passer with court vision. divac complemented taht, picking up rebounds, passing, scoring some points and doing some dirty work (whether flopping or hack-a-shacking) as needed- basically, getting by by being an intelligent player and working within the system. the third guys did a lot more of the dirtier work- energy off the bench, rebounding, blocks, and good enough skill on the defensive end to bang with the big boys (a la pollard vs shaq).
right now that frontcourt consists of justin williams and spencer hawes. williams can possibly be the dirty work guy- a solid defender, shot blocker and rebounder who scores a few points on occassion. hawes, if he lives up to his hype, will be a similar version of vlade, with a better offensive game, maybe not as good a defender or rebounder, but just as smart, meaning that he will be able to gel into a team game, make smart passes, and take smart fouls. which can, especially in the playoffs and big games, be just as important as being a slightly better defender or rebounder who loses his composure where it counts. playing smart is a lot more important than many people here seem to realize.
so this team is incomplete. we need a point guard, certainly. and also our stud in the middle, an all-star power forward to really fuel the team. but both those things are hard to come by, and we only has 1 pick, and it was the tenth. it will be another 2-3 years to really judge this deal, and the direction that this team is moving, but right now there are some good foundational pieces. maybe another 2, 3 bad years, a few more ping pong balls, and we might land the star to push us over the top. but until then, the best thing to do is prepare the right pieces for the day the next ? walks through the door, only instead of walking into a mess of hopefuls at each position, he can go to a team that maybe doesn't win a lot of games, but knows how to play the game right, and as a team, and will be ready to take that next step when the time comes.
that time is not today, or next season.
i hope that save some of you from destroying your computers tonight.
GREAT post man...totally agree...I think that PF star could be our lottery pick next year...DARRELL ARTHUR BABY - SIGN ME UP!
Agreed. Another athletic swingman would have been disappointing.
Heuge
Starter
Whoops.
Are you Bac2Basics on RGM?
Heuge
Starter
nope
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And Brandon Wright looks like Calvin Booth, another Nellie favorite, the point is?
My point is, I"m hoping he can be at least the equal of great centers of yester-year like Cherokee Parks.
I was watching a replay of the 1995 draft, and Rick Pitino and some other guy were saying what a great draft pick Cherokee Parks was at #12. Kind of like how Jay Bilas was saying the same things for our pick at #10 this year.
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zo0mmike
G-League
BEST post of the night. Makes me feel a little better.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
The key is getting two lotto picks next year so we don't have to go through this again. Get one of the good defensive PGs and one of the athletic bigs, and you're set for a while.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
BawLa
Starter
Cheers!
And to get those picks we need to have a terrible record. So the best way to have a terrible record and still feel good about it is to let our youth play as much or more than the vets. That way they will still be developing, while we are simultaneously losing to get our next year's picks.
Thank you, and good night.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Hi guys, I thought Hawes would get more of a 50/50 reaction but it seems like it's leaning more towards anti-hawes. My opinion is that Julian Wright should have been their pick and ultimately he will be the better player and I think we'll come to regret passing on him, but Hawes was my no.2 after him. Even though I'm upset we didn't get Wright, there wasn't a whole lot that wow'd me that was on the board at the time and in the end Hawes is a very good low post scorer in a league where it is very rare to find someone who actually can scare in the low post AND in the high post which Hawes does. I think he is more advanced as a freshman than Bogut was as a sophomore, I think he can be a better scorer than Bogut. While Hawes isn't exactly the franchise player we all hoped would fall to us, I think he has a good shot at being a very solid center that is at least coveted by the league as a good trade chip down the line. While I have my fears about him that he'll turn into a bust like other unathletic centers who were taken in the mid to late lottery, I think he's going to work extremely hard to overcome his weaknesses because he's a good kid who really wants to prove a lot of people wrong about his game. It's possible he becomes a one dimensional player but for some reason I just think he's just way too intelligent, hard working and just savy to stop developing right now like some here appear to think. So while I really wanted Julian Wright, Spencer Hawes is not a bad consollation prize compared to what else was available sans Wright.
captain bill
All-Star
...and he's only been a center for a year- switched over his freshman year to play center after being a guard. napear says he is "still growing"= we can't really judge how well he is going to defend and rebound. that is all potential. but if he can defend or rebound at all he can be an all-star, no doubt (given that his offensive game develops as expected)
i like this pick more and more as i think about it. i think this guys ceiling is being the man on a contender, a dominant force at center. brad miller is really his worse case scenario, that his post moves don't translate that well and he never becomes anything more than an average rebounder or defender.
i like this pick more and more as i think about it. i think this guys ceiling is being the man on a contender, a dominant force at center. brad miller is really his worse case scenario, that his post moves don't translate that well and he never becomes anything more than an average rebounder or defender.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
Did you watch this slow stiff play in his only year in college last year?? He was awful!! I wont be sugar coating anything with this pick, because it really is a piece of dung, and nothing more. Hey, we might as well bring back Osterfat and then we'd have the 3 slowest, unathletic white guys in the history of the NBA! How is this guy gonna match up with Tim Duncan?? Shaq will eat him for dinner the 2 times we play Miami...Hell, I'd rather have pissed away the 10th pick and traded for a guy like Zydrunas or something, at least he's got size, and he's like Vlade-light, this guy is soft and mushy with a not as good as reviewed post game, that people will soon find out on a nightly basis...and you can say...'hey, give him a chance'...but when you'd get outworked by the likes of Duane Causewell, the OLDER years, I think that really says something, because this guy plays NO defense whatsoever, and after a year or so, people are going to be calling for his head in a trade(if they arent already doing that!) This team will be so un-exciting to watch next year, we could fall back to only getting 13,000-14,000 fans a game like we were in 1997-98...and THEN what are you gonna do Maloofs??
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
same here, but what are the best odds of THAT even becoming remotely true?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I certainly hope you haven't come to that conclusion based on anything that Grant Nappear has told you. Even in my quint real real hard best case scenario as McHale wihtout the defense he's not THAT.
ya exactly, Hawes could turn out to be a pretty darn good big man,he's only 19 but I think he could average like 25 minutes a game this year, if Theus gives him a chance.
You have to remember that Brad Miller didnt even get drafted, and Hawes is a top 10 lottery pick. Clearly there is a big difference in overall talent and potential. I think that as long as Justin Williams turns into what I think he could be which is a shot blocking and rebounding machine, the Kings could be really good in a year or two.
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captain bill
All-Star
I certainly hope you haven't come to that conclusion based on anything that Grant Nappear has told you. Even in my quint real real hard best case scenario as McHale wihtout the defense he's not THAT.
In no way do I intend to imply that it is in anyway likely, just that given all information I have read about him (second-hand) that that would be his absolute ceiling, if he works tremendously hard to improve every part of his game that is very raw right now, an elite type player might emerge. However, as I posted earlier, a more likely scenario is for him to be a good system player who can score and dish and make smart plays on a good team, which is not a bad type of guy to pick up as one part of a long-term rebuilding plan.
Another thing that really pissed me off today was how during our pick they went right back and started talking about Chicago the entire time and mentioned nothing about Sac's situation. I wish loud *** Steven A. Smith would have went on a rant about how terrible the Kings are... maybe that would have caught Petrie's attention and maybe, just maybe he would have noticed that he is the GM of this team and should actually think about making it better.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I'm afraid our sitation is back to the point that we're nto worth talking about anymore. Truly back to the bad ole days. Shan't be long until I'm back to getting my one contrqacturally obligated national TV game a year to watch (of course now there is league pass, so times are better...depdning on how you look at an "opportunity" to watch these guys
).- Status
