Bee; Bumbling and grumbling...

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#1
http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/106323.html

Bumbling and grumbling
Bibby questions attitude of some of his teammates
By Sam Amick - Bee Staff Writer
Published 12:00 am PST Thursday, January 11, 2007


The night before, they were nowhere to be seen.

Mike Bibby, Brad Miller and Ron Artest -- the captains of a ship taking on water -- were not among those trying to explain the Kings' meltdown against Cleveland on Tuesday night at Arco Arena. The duty of dissecting a third consecutive heartbreaking loss was left to other players inside a morose locker room.

But the captains' presence already had been felt before the media entered and the trio exited, when the frustration of a season that continues to fall short of expectations became a heated discussion among players on how to fix it.

One day later, the longest-tenured Kings had plenty to say. While Miller was most vocal in the emotional behind-closed-doors session, Bibby questioned the motives of some of his teammates after Wednesday's practice.

"We've got to put away the individual stuff and go try to do the collective team thing," Bibby said. "Try to win a game instead of trying to see how many points you can score or how many shots you can get up ... . It's frustrating, but I think everybody's goal has to be winning, and I don't think it is."

Bibby, who forever cites his three losing seasons in Vancouver as a what-not-to-do for an NBA career, said there is an unwanted familiarity between the situations.

"We've got to make sacrifices for each other and try to win," Bibby said. "No one remembers a high scorer on a bad team.That does nothing for you. Everybody looks good when you win, and we're not winning."

For Miller, it wasn't just that the Kings lost a 17-point lead, or the Cavaliers faced little resistance in a stretch spanning the third and fourth quarters when they made a 30-point swing, or even that the two-man game between him and Bibby that resulted in a combined 33 points by halftime wasn't there in the second half. Miller said there are offensive inefficiencies that need addressing, namely a need to attack the rim more and remember the importance of a three-man game among him, Bibby and Kevin Martin that often leads to easy baskets. And when the jumpers aren't falling, Miller said, the post personnel need to be used.

"We probably should have had Kenny (Thomas) or (Shareef Abdur-Rahim) or Mo (Taylor) in there more," Miller said. "(The Cavaliers) really got concerned about taking that part away. It seemed like when (the two-man game) goes well, that's a big part of our offense. But they made the adjustments, and we didn't make the adjustments to counter that."

Miller said he spoke up in the locker room out of a desire to remedy the situation.

"If no one says a word, no one cares," he said. "That's basically what it is. It stays in the locker room, and that's what it is."

Kings basketball president Geoff Petrie said the frustration should surprise no one. The nature and timing of the overtime defeats to the Los Angeles Lakers and Portland before the Cleveland collapse not only left the Kings at a loss for why they can't close out games, it was the largest missed opportunity yet this season after they had won four of five games.

"After the last three losses, and the way they've come down, I don't think you can blame anybody for being frustrated," Petrie said. "In some ways, the fact that they're frustrated shows they care. Once you get past the emotions of it, you've got to be realistic about what adjustments everybody needs to make, not just what you think other people need to make."

Artest took the opposite approach in evaluating the latest loss, searching hard for a silver lining when he said it was "a fun game to be a part of."

In the first quarter, Artest gave his teammates plenty of plays to enjoy by posting a season-high six assists. Artest, as the period proved, has appeared to accept the Kings' approach more than ever recently. His style is, as he has said many times, a street-ball or isolation version compared to the Kings' preferred style of ball movement, cutting and screening. But he had just one assist in the final three quarters and finished 4 for 14 from the field.

"I don't even think it's frustration," Artest said. "We just weren't playing hard. We were up 15. We got a little bit comfortable. We were having fun, which is important to have fun, but we've got to find that fine line between having fun and competing."

The second-half fade caused a fan reaction that bothered Bibby.

"The whole five and a half years I've been playing (in Sacramento), I don't think the team has been booed (as it was after the third quarter Tuesday)," Bibby said. "That's kind of bad as far as (the fans) always being behind us and getting us through hard times and stuff. That's tough."

About the writer: The Bee's Sam Amick can be reached at samick@sacbee.com.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#2
Okay, this - to me - looks like the players are NOT happy with the way the games are being coached.
 
#3
When was the last time Geoff has commented on team morale? =/

I could have done without hearing about how its "tough" because fans aren't cheering. The fans should be the least of their concerns.

And I hope there was a pip from the coach, or one of his many assitants, in that "heated discussion" of how to fix the team.
 
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#5
"We probably should have had Kenny (Thomas) or (Shareef Abdur-Rahim) or Mo (Taylor) in there more," Miller said. "(The Cavaliers) really got concerned about taking that part away. It seemed like when (the two-man game) goes well, that's a big part of our offense. But they made the adjustments, and we didn't make the adjustments to counter that."
That statement really stood out to me...
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
"The whole five and a half years I've been playing (in Sacramento), I don't think the team has been booed (as it was after the third quarter Tuesday)," Bibby said. "That's kind of bad as far as (the fans) always being behind us and getting us through hard times and stuff. That's tough."
My response?

Hey, Mike, I'm sorry it's tough for you to hear the disapproval of the fans but give me a break.

We have bled purple for years. We've supported this team like no other fans in the NBA. And we've learned to recognize real teamwork and unity. To prove it, we saw it in the first half of the Cavaliers game. Then, for no definable reason, we saw a total and complete collapse in the third quarter...again.

I, for one, am insulted that our own PBP announcer was so enamored with the play of LeBron James that he dismissed the loss by saying at least we fans would look back and remember seeing LBJ play a great game. Excuse me if I beg to differ. Screw seeing LBJ play a great game. I don't tune in to see him play. I tune in to see my Kings play - and while I'm not the type who boos, I can't really blame those who did.

As frustrating as it is for you, try to imagine what it's like for the fans who have been supportive all these years to see game after game frittered away. Especially when we've dug deep into our pockets to get the tickets to come see the game in the first place.

So, sorry Mike. I do love this team but I sure can't defend what I'm seeing - and not seeing - on the court on a regular basis.
 
#7
Yup, i'm with you there VF, the players, especially as Brad's comments show, seem to be unhappy with the way Muss is coaching. But I hope Petrie wakes up soon, coz this is the team he built...his comment about players having to make the necessary adjustments after losing the frustration later is just nonsensical. Mr.Petrie, it's you who needs to be Emotional and not just sit back like an apathetic bystander. This is your team, too! Good grief!
 
#10
so Brad says "But they made the adjustments, and we didn't make the adjustments to counter that."

is this predominantly a coaching issue?

i've been trying to figure out why, outside of maybe playing videos of Greg Oden at halftime, we've been having such terrible 3rd quarters.

is this the reason why?
 
#11
Out of the three captains, I agree most with Brad. Rather unusual but it makes sense

We finally get a more vocal Mike but at the same time it's still the same thing said over and over. Yeah it's tough but you can't expect for the fans to be happy with leads being lost on a weekly basis. show a consistent effort to actually win a 3rd quarter and we'll support you.

Ron......there's nothing fun about seeing a lead of 17 disappear faster than you can say powerpoint. The teams plays for 48 minutes, not 24 or 36 (when we play catch-up in the 4th).
 
#12
Yup, i'm with you there VF, the players, especially as Brad's comments show, seem to be unhappy with the way Muss is coaching. But I hope Petrie wakes up soon, coz this is the team he built...his comment about players having to make the necessary adjustments after losing the frustration later is just nonsensical. Mr.Petrie, it's you who needs to be Emotional and not just sit back like an apathetic bystander. This is your team, too! Good grief!
Let's not be too hasty to put this all on Petrie. If I remember right, it was the Maloof's who pulled the trigger on the Artest trade and firing Addleman to hire Muss.

It's usually not a good thing when owners get involved in basketball operations.
 
#13
Bibby wants out. Can't blame him. He got in shape for the season but sadly got hurt. The owners did NOTHING about putting a team together.

Quincy Douby may be a fine late first rounder, but how stupid can you get drafting another thin guard at the deepest position on the team?

I wish I could cancel my NBA package on Directv because the Kings were the only team I liked watching, and they are unwatchable product.

Boring. Make a friggin trade. Let Bibby play with a good team before he loses a step. He's too good to play with losers like thomas, rahim and artest. He deserves a get-out-of-jail free card.
 
#15
"We probably should have had Kenny (Thomas) or (Shareef Abdur-Rahim) or Mo (Taylor) in there more," Miller said. "(The Cavaliers) really got concerned about taking that part away. It seemed like when (the two-man game) goes well, that's a big part of our offense. But they made the adjustments, and we didn't make the adjustments to counter that."
My read on the above is it absolutely is a reference by Miller to Muss and poor decision making.
 
#16
One of Kenny or Shareef or Mo were in the game the whole time -- I think what Miller was saying is that they should have had them in the post when the Cavs took away Miller and Bibby's two-man game.

But seriously, where's the pot and kettle picture for Bibby. Looking for your own shot too much? Too much one on one?? I hope Bibby took some responsibility for his own actions instead of just complaining to everyone else about the stuff he's a major part of.

And hey, Bibby, nothing shows like you're part of a team like PLAYING DEFENSE.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#17
One of Kenny or Shareef or Mo were in the game the whole time -- I think what Miller was saying is that they should have had them in the post when the Cavs took away Miller and Bibby's two-man game.

But seriously, where's the pot and kettle picture for Bibby. Looking for your own shot too much? Too much one on one?? I hope Bibby took some responsibility for his own actions instead of just complaining to everyone else about the stuff he's a major part of.

And hey, Bibby, nothing shows like you're part of a team like PLAYING DEFENSE.
well then he is screwed - I guess
 
#18
"Concerned about how many shots are put up."

Could this be a comment towards Martin. Shoot the ball and dont worry about your shot to point ratio as much.
 
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#19
My read on the above is it absolutely is a reference by Miller to Muss and poor decision making.
Yeah, I don't think it can be taken any other way. And, while I know there are always going to be times where players don't agree with a coaches substitutions, being willing to come out & say it in the media shows a frustration level that is downright frightening.

And, unlike most of the other posters, I do feel bad for Bibby about the booing. Bibby is one of the few who remembers the golden years where Arco was a place where other teams hated to come because our fans gave our team an advantage. Obviously, that goes both ways, because we all remember a team that was so much fun to watch that we HAD to stand up from our seats & scream our hearts out. But, for Bibby, this has just become a sad situation. Mike Bibby is (IMHO) giving his same effort, but now suddenly he's on a bad team with no chemistry and a coach that seems to have trouble finding a direction to take this mixed up group of players. You think we miss the good old days? Trying being Mike Bibby.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#21
Brad's comments are well placed and make sense. Part is coaching. But he also said some players did not play hard. That is not coaching. But the combo of those two things can easily blow up the situation. There was NO intensity during the Cavs run from 17 down in the 3rd. Not from anyone obvious. They all seemed to be watching more than hustling.

Maybe the 8 year run is over. Maybe we need to begin getting on our rebuild attitudes. The Kings playoff run is only shared by the Spurs and one other team. So every team has down years. Good teams get down then up again. We grumble about coaching and players not being tough enough. What about our draft?

2005 got Cisco. Who came after him that is doing well now? David Lee on the Knicks, Ronny Turiaf on the Lakers, and Monta Ellis PG on Warriors come to mind. Lee and Turiaf are BIGS doing well and Ellis is a pass first PG.

2006 was a weaker draft for bigs so Douby could prove out next year.

But reality is reality. Maybe they can turn it around and get back to where they were winning 4 of 5 and if the high % FT guys made a few more the two OT losses would have been W's as well. Maybe they can't. Then we see what works and what doesn't .
 
#22
I'm far more troubled by Ron's comments than I am by either Mike's or Brad's.

Brad was definitely taking a shot at the coaching, which could become a concern if such comments start to come more often.
 
#23
If Ron would have said something negative, the sky would be falling in the media.

Ron's comments didn't bother me.

Hell, taking anything he says serious will cause damage to one's brain.

I'm more annoyed with Brad and Mike and their comments. They're the two guys on the other side of the court yelling and crying to the refs while the other guys play 4 on 5/3 on 5 defense. Rather then point fingers, just shut up, and play. Stop making the other guys play 4 on 5...stop crying...stop everything. Stop talking. Play.
 
#24
I'm far more troubled by Ron's comments than I am by either Mike's or Brad's.

Brad was definitely taking a shot at the coaching, which could become a concern if such comments start to come more often.
I'm not so worried about Rons comments. I think that is just a function of the "happy pills" working. Be glad for it!:D
 
#25
It's funny that all your read is spoken from the mouths of the players that are the biggest weakness on the defensive. We are losing games with defense more than any offensive inefficiency.
 
#26
I, for one, am insulted that our own PBP announcer was so enamored with the play of LeBron James that he dismissed the loss by saying at least we fans would look back and remember seeing LBJ play a great game. Excuse me if I beg to differ. Screw seeing LBJ play a great game. I don't tune in to see him play. I tune in to see my Kings play - and while I'm not the type who boos, I can't really blame those who did.
With you 100 percent on that. James is a great player, but I tune in to watch the Kings, not the star du jour on the other team. Drives me nuts when Grant -- and, to a lesser degree, Jerry -- stop talking about the Kings and start talking up opposing players. It almost seems like some kind of cheesy, NBA-mandated, "I love this game!" drive sometimes.

No definable reason? That one's easy, the Cavs stepped up their defense, Mike went cold, and we folded. This team's woes aren't unpredictable.
I think that was Brad's point: The Cavs did those things, but it didn't seem that the Kings re-adjusted or tried anything different. The biggest Cleveland adjustment that I recall was switching Gooden onto Miller on defense; Miller (believe it or not) was simply too quick for Ilgauskas, who couldn't stop the pick and pop in the first half. Yeah, Mike went cold, but did the Kings try to do anything differently once that happened?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#27
There seem to be all sorts of hidden messages tossed around in those quotes.

Brad is complaining about the coaching. Which needs complainign abotu, but Brad's specific complaint doesn't seem to make much sense since the KT/SAR/Mo platoon combined to play virtually the entire game I think. He might be complaining about smallballing in general.

Mike is complaining about shooting/shot selection. Remember him making a similar comment at the end of the 04-05 season after the Webb trade. Was never really sure who he was talking about at that time, but it seemed likely either Cat or KT. Still not sure now -- Artest would be one target obviously. Kevin could be I guess, but given that his problem is that he absolutely refuses to shoot, that seems unlikely unless Mike is making a bigger point about guys just not taking smart shots rather than just about guys forcing shots for stats. Maybe, on an even bigger stretch, he's worried about guys like SAR or KT not playuing well unless they get their shots.

And Ron -- that's bizarre. He now seems to be intentionally rubbing his new happy-go-luckiness in our faces. A cynic might take a wild guess that it goes something like this: "so you won't follow me and turn the team over to me? Fine then -- don't expect me to care. Its not on my head."
 
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#28
It's extremely weird how every time a Kings player speaks out about the team they always seem to be completely oblivoius to the fact that their statements most apply to themselves.

Ron says he's like Kobe, when he needs to realize he's not Kobe.

Bibby complains about shot selection, when he takes horrible shots.

Brad talks about how the bigs need to be more involved, when he's a big who needs to get himself involved.

I mean, are they hypocrites or just not very smart?
 
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Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#29
It's extremely weird how every time a Kings player speaks out about the team they always seem to be completely oblivoius to the fact that their statements most apply to themselves.

I mean, are they hypocrites or just not very smart?
I don't think you really want the answer to that, do you???? ;)