LA Times - Artest Deal Could be Done Soon

GoGoGadget

GoGoGadget

All-Star
#31
#31
I don't have an overwhelming desire to see this trade happen. Not really. It wouldn't thrill me, by any stretch of the imagination. More treading water, more pretty scoring, more blah.

However, what I really don't want to see is this team get completely destroyed by Ron's... Ronness. If there's a legitimate rift, if there's a legitimate reason for concern, if there's legitimate yuckiness going on behind the scenes, there's no choice but to move Ron now before he completely screws the team. He pulls another Indiana here and his trade value goes negative despite the fact that he is, still, one of the best players currently in the league.
 
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uopmatt

G-League
#32
#32
Ron Artest is a bigtime Ball Hog. He tries to play like he's Kobe and he's not even close. It's getting old watching him force up so many shots every game that are not in the flow of the offense. And as much as I love watching him play defense, is it realling making a difference for this team. Aren't we still one of the worst defensive teams in the league. So if all he really is offering is horrible shot selection and we have a chance to get someone in exchange who in my mind is much more efficient offensively, I say we do it especially if Artest wants out. It's one of those love/hate relationships. Love his defense, hate his offense.
 
C

Cal-Kings

Bench
#33
#33
uopmatt said:
Ron Artest is a bigtime Ball Hog. He tries to play like he's Kobe and he's not even close. It's getting old watching him force up so many shots every game that are not in the flow of the offense. And as much as I love watching him play defense, is it realling making a difference for this team. Aren't we still one of the worst defensive teams in the league. So if all he really is offering is horrible shot selection and we have a chance to get someone in exchange who in my mind is much more efficient offensively, I say we do it especially if Artest wants out. It's one of those love/hate relationships. Love his defense, hate his offense.
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Ball Hog?

Let's look at the numbers.

Artest takes 14.5 shots a game and that's about the average over his career.

Kobe averaged 27.2 shots a game last season. This year he's down to 19.2. He was injured for much of the beginning of this season. I'm sure he'll work his way back up to Ball Hog status.

Kevin Martin, whom I'm sure we'd all say is far from a ball hog, and probably should take many more shots, takes 14.0 shots a game.

Nope, I can't see Ball Hog anywhere in there by Artest.
 
Roman

Roman

Bench
#34
#34
Cal-Kings said:
Ball Hog?

Let's look at the numbers.

Artest takes 14.5 shots a game and that's about the average over his career.
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A bit skewed. If you take out the games after he was called out for being a ball hog (since then has had a string of injuries) and the ones he only played a few minutes - he's put it up 18 times a game.

The problem isn't so much that he's a hog, but he's one-minded. It's like he decides to shoot it before he makes a move. He forces ill-advised looks.
 
C

Cal-Kings

Bench
#36
#36
Roman said:
A bit skewed. If you take out the games after he was called out for being a ball hog (since then has had a string of injuries) and the ones he only played a few minutes - he's put it up 18 times a game.
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He's played in 19 games, taken 275 shots. That comes out to 14.47 shots a game. Not my definition of "ball hog" in the Kobe world.

And with the K-Mart example, Artest is far from a ball hog taking only 14.47 shots a game.

The problem isn't so much that he's a hog, but he's one-minded. It's like he decides to shoot it before he makes a move. He forces ill-advised looks.
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OK, so he's not a ball hog. He doesn't take good shots.

Maybe, since his shooting percentage is horrible.
 
Indianapolis King

Indianapolis King

G-League
#38
#38
wow...how familiar this all sounds. Ron is Ron and he has not changed. Its still all about him. He thinks he is one of the best players in the league and wants to be treated like Kobe and Lebron. The only problem is that both of those guys make their teams better. Ron does not make his team better unless he wants to, and unfortunately, sometimes he does not want to make his team better. Great defensive player. Average offensive player. Below average team chemistry. He wanted to be the focus of the Indiana offense when Reggie was still in his prime!! I just can't believe he is on the brink of killing another franchise.
 
Roman

Roman

Bench
#39
#39
Cal-Kings said:
He's played in 19 games, taken 275 shots. That comes out to 14.47 shots a game. Not my definition of "ball hog" in the Kobe world.

And with the K-Mart example, Artest is far from a ball hog taking only 14.47[ shots a game.
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You can't look at 19 games and make a stand on shots.

End of November, Artest was called out for shooting too much and trying to do too much. Suprisingly, a string of injuries and lack-luster effort came forward. I don't count those games as what Artest WANTS to do.

At the beginning of the year, Artest was being Artest. But, you have two outlier games:

11/4 - 25 minutes
11/25 - 22 minutes

OK, so he's not a ball hog. He doesn't take good shots.

Maybe, since his shooting percentage is horrible.
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I don't know what you mean. Are you saying his shots are bad only because his % is low? I disagree. He forces shots that have low probability of success.
 
Roman

Roman

Bench
#40
#40
Roman said:
ESPN is now saying Orlando is interested in Artest.

Wonder what we could get?
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I'm wondering if this isn't larger than we think.

I found it odd that SAR and a few other players sat out of practice the other day. I'm wondering if there isn't something to that or am I just hopeful?
 
Ryle

Ryle

Starter
#41
#41
Roman said:
ESPN is now saying Orlando is interested in Artest.

Wonder what we could get?
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The Orlando "rumor" is coming from a blog from one of there writers. He basically said the Magic would love to have Artest but only if he had a mental makeover.....he then says it won't happen as they are building there team on good character guys.
 
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Cal-Kings

Bench
#45
#45
Roman said:
A bit skewed. If you take out the games after he was called out for being a ball hog (since then has had a string of injuries) and the ones he only played a few minutes - he's put it up 18 times a game.

The problem isn't so much that he's a hog, but he's one-minded. It's like he decides to shoot it before he makes a move. He forces ill-advised looks.
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I'm sure you can take games from any player and skew them. But apples to apples is what I posted - number of shots per game compared with Kobe. It's the number used by everyone.

Who "called him out" for taking too many shots?
 
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Cal-Kings

Bench
#46
#46
Roman said:
...
I don't know what you mean. Are you saying his shots are bad only because his % is low? I disagree. He forces shots that have low probability of success.
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You said

He forces ill-advised looks.
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I answered "maybe".

And related to that, I noted that his shooting percentage is low.

I didn't give any theory on why his shooting percentage is low.
 
B

BudWright

G-League
#50
#50
L.A. Times-Artest Deal

One article said "He ranted after the Dallas game (remember--Josh Howard owned Artest) almost in tears; he did not speak to any team member for four days; he decided less than an hour before a game that he had sore knees." No one can deny his ability to play basketball, but when one is so disruptive that it affects his team on a daily basis, his value is suspect. Hoopsworld described him as "looney tunes" today--that is somewhat harsh, but there are obviously some problems there. The Maloofs said they would take a risk--they did and it remains to be seen just how risky that was. I have mixed feelings now but am leaning towards a trade because I think this team needs stability during this difficult time and I don't think Petrie will make a mistake in getting equal value or better. He does his job well! Annie
 
jay dubb

jay dubb

G-League
#53
#53
im all for trading Artest if we throw KT in the deal and get Tim Thomas and Maggette

pg- Bibby
sg- Martin
sf- Maggette
pf- T.Thomas/SAR
c- Miller
I like that lineup
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#57
#57
jay dubb said:
im all for trading Artest if we throw KT in the deal and get Tim Thomas and Maggette

pg- Bibby
sg- Martin
sf- Maggette
pf- T.Thomas/SAR
c- Miller
I like that lineup
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Why would we want to replace Kenny Thomas's longterm contract wiht Tim Thomas's? Similar level of player, except that Tim is a soft outside shooter SF type. I;m all for liquidating the KT contract if possible to free up room to make a run at some young bigs this summer (Darko, Varajao). But see no reason to replace him with another guy at a similar level, of a similar age, with a similar deal.
 
DaMan

DaMan

Starter
#58
#58
I don't understand the concept of trading our best player in Artest who is just a year younger then Magget. I would much rather ship out bibby for a guy like Andre Miller who is a pass first pg and a better defender.
 
SacKings384

SacKings384

Starter
#59
#59
I don't think anyone here thinks Maggette is near the caliber player than Ron is. But I think many are worried (including myself) that he is going to explode soon, and then we will be stuck with him. So I think alot of people feel more comfortable without a bomb in their hands, regaurdless of how good that bomb is if controlled.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#60
#60
DaMan said:
I don't understand the concept of trading our best player in Artest who is just a year younger then Magget. I would much rather ship out bibby for a guy like Andre Miller who is a pass first pg and a better defender.
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I don't think it would be a strategic move if it happened so much as a bailout move -- i.e. Ron is being disruptive, doesn't like the losing, Muss can't control him, and may be on his way to another implosion. So we try to move him before it all blows up in our face. Not because we think we get better talentwise, but just to save as much as we can out of the situaion.

I take a stable, focused Ron with a team that matcdhes his spirit and a coach able to keep him pointed toward the opponents rather than us any day over Corey Maggette. But we may not have that.
 
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