Grade our Off-season so far
- Thread starter TheJoker
- Start date
teams that did nothing: danny ainge, kevin mchale, kiki, billy king, whoever runs the magic/jazz/trailblazers/sonics/nets/wizards/cavs (and your exluded mullin and thomas).
this doesn't include the teams that are already good: spurs, mavs, clippers, heat, suns.
and the teams that upgraded: bulls, hornets, pacers, raptors, bobcats, lakers, rockets, bucks, hawks, wolves.
the teams that downgraded: pistons, grizzlies.
whew. long answer to a rhetorical question. where does geoff fit?
this doesn't include the teams that are already good: spurs, mavs, clippers, heat, suns.
and the teams that upgraded: bulls, hornets, pacers, raptors, bobcats, lakers, rockets, bucks, hawks, wolves.
the teams that downgraded: pistons, grizzlies.
whew. long answer to a rhetorical question. where does geoff fit?
Last edited:
I agree with most of this list, even if the improvement is very minute in some cases.
However, I really don't think Indiana improved. They lost Peja and a first round pick and then added Al Harrington and Shawne Williams. They might play well through improved health (O' Neal) and the development of last year's rookies (Granger and Jask), but they really did not improve their team with their moves.
However, I really don't think Indiana improved. They lost Peja and a first round pick and then added Al Harrington and Shawne Williams. They might play well through improved health (O' Neal) and the development of last year's rookies (Granger and Jask), but they really did not improve their team with their moves.
I agree. Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make. I love Bonzi and wanted to keep him at a reasonable price. However, giving a player over 30 an 8-10 million dollar contract based on one good contract year and a great playoff series would have been a mistake.
I also gave us a B for several reasons:
1 - We didn't sign Bonzi to a bad contract, which will give us more money to ensure we can resign Martin, Artest, etc and/or get a role player we need during the next couple of off seasons.
2 - I think we are still a very competitive team. We had a great record once we got Artest, even while Bonzi was out and Shareef was still recovering/working his way back into basketball shape after his injury. Take the core that won the high percentage and add a healthy Shareef, Salmons, Douby, Woods and possibly Amundson or Williams and we will be a better overall team.
3 - Few teams really improved their rosters this offseason. There were not many marquee signings. The Bulls upgraded significantly and the Hornets appear to have as well (though there are still a lot of question marks there). However, look at our competition from last season.
Mavs - May have improved slightly, but did not make any signficant moves.
Spurs - Made some nice additions to their frontcourt. I give them a lot of credit, but their primary challenge will be fielding a healthy team this year.
Clippers - Did not improve at all. With their backcourt aging, they will need Livingston and Singleton to improve their games to prevent slipping this year.
Nuggets - Did not improve at all. Nene signing could hamper them for awhile if he does not improve significantly. They need Anthony to join Lebron and Wade as an elite player to improve.
Suns - Jones (assuming they sign him) and Banks could help, but their backcourt/wings are already crowded. They did little to address their weaknesses in the frontcourt. They need Amare and Thomas to stay healthy and play well.
Wolves - Foye was a nice pickup, but it remains to be seen if he can provide more than Banks did last year as a rookie. The team is a mess right now.
Warriors - Player wise they did nothing to improve. They will need their young players to improve and Baron to reemerge as a leader to make any noise.
Lakers - Radmonovic could help with his shooting, but he is also a defensive liability who is adverse to rebounding. Farmar is at least a year away. They may have upgraded narrowly at best. Again, their improvement will be based on Kwame, Sasha, Bynum and Parker improving as well as Kobe and Odom meshing better.
Grizzlies - Will have become worse unless Gay can provide significant help this year and Warrick can improve.
Rockets - Battier was a nice move. However, they did not significantly improve. If Yao and TMac can't stay healthy, they will be in trouble again this year.
Our growth will really hinge on the coaching change. Like it or hate it, I really think that is the hardest move to judge yet. I loved Adelman; however, if it was time for him to go, I have always liked Muss. He looks like a good fit as a coach given our personel and the direction we are trying to take this team. However, his ability to coach and connect with the players will make us or break us far more than any one of the player moves.
Overall, I give the roster moves a B, not spectacular, but solid and nothing that kills us for the future. I understand if this same rational makes other people give them a C.
As for the coaching, I'm sticking with an "I" for incomplete until we have several months to eveluate Muss' effect on this team.
I think the B grade has a lot two do with the previous three drafts that we have had. We can all see that Kevin Martin pick was a steal at 23. Francisco has shown flashes and he could be a very solid reserve this year. Then the pick of Douby, like Martin, could prove to be a steal in another year or two. Geoff has very quietly focused on developement of young players without completely dismanteling the team. I see only good things from our group of young players. Once some of the big contracts come off the books Geoff will have more negotiating power.
Since none of us has seen the new group play together nor seen the new coach style in practice, my C is a SWAG but not based on team reality. How the "team" can do under so much new is anyone's guess.
But do agree the 1st round draft pick was a mystery. As someone said awhile ago: ".... just what we need, another (3rd) skinny outside shooter..." or words to that effect.
But do agree the 1st round draft pick was a mystery. As someone said awhile ago: ".... just what we need, another (3rd) skinny outside shooter..." or words to that effect.
While I'm not sure about the B grade, I do agree with most of your comments.
If those young players develop anywhere close to how Martin has done, with the big contracts dropping off the books AND viable trade material, Geoff could be setting the stage to acquire the kind of big we really need to complete our front court.
If those young players develop anywhere close to how Martin has done, with the big contracts dropping off the books AND viable trade material, Geoff could be setting the stage to acquire the kind of big we really need to complete our front court.
I gave GP a C, but thats all I really expected going in. He had limited money to work with. He made a run at a couple of players and they decided to sign with other teams. Some out of loyalty and some for the money. Not much he could do about that.
The biggist deal or non-deal was the Bonzi non-signing. Perhaps his major mistake was waiting too long for Bonzi to respond and in the process lost a chance to sign someone else. It actually was a lose, lose situation for him. If he waits too long he's in the situation he's in now. If he doesn't wait long enough, everyone says he didn't really try.
As for the people who think he should have given Bonzi what he wanted, what ever that was. These are the same people who would be criticising him for locking up a player for too much money when that player suddenly blows out a knee.
By the by. A player that I thought played very well in the summer league and got little press on this fourm is Price. He looked very improved from last year. I see him as a player with a future in this league. Hopefully with the Kings.
The biggist deal or non-deal was the Bonzi non-signing. Perhaps his major mistake was waiting too long for Bonzi to respond and in the process lost a chance to sign someone else. It actually was a lose, lose situation for him. If he waits too long he's in the situation he's in now. If he doesn't wait long enough, everyone says he didn't really try.
As for the people who think he should have given Bonzi what he wanted, what ever that was. These are the same people who would be criticising him for locking up a player for too much money when that player suddenly blows out a knee.
By the by. A player that I thought played very well in the summer league and got little press on this fourm is Price. He looked very improved from last year. I see him as a player with a future in this league. Hopefully with the Kings.
The idea that we did okay is ludicrous. We know what our needs are, yet our biggest pick-up was a utilitarian swing man. I thought we drafted one a year ago, and also drafted a combo guard this year. Those guys might not be ready this year, but what is there to be ready for? It’s unlikely there will be any big dances to attend. The same people who would say those two aren’t ready, thus we needed Salmons, are also the same ones extolling the rookies J.Will and Amundson as additions to our frontcourt.
You can call it pessimism, but what’s more pessimistic is when people say there was nothing out there anyways, management did all they can. It wouldn’t have taken a blockbuster signing or trade to address our needs, though it wouldn’t have hurt, there were a handful of players available that coud’ve contributed upfront.
The team may still be competitive, but that doesn't mean we had a good off-season.
You can call it pessimism, but what’s more pessimistic is when people say there was nothing out there anyways, management did all they can. It wouldn’t have taken a blockbuster signing or trade to address our needs, though it wouldn’t have hurt, there were a handful of players available that coud’ve contributed upfront.
The team may still be competitive, but that doesn't mean we had a good off-season.
Last edited:
just typed this out and it didn't get posted so i guess ill try again.. I gave it a D
- While other teams in the West may have done little to improve that doesn't change the fact that our offseason was a net loss of talent. Yes it was good we didn't overpay for Bonzi but we could have just sat on our original offer until he signed it given the fact no one else could give him more money
- To compare, last offseason we let Mobely walk which was a loss of a talented guy for nothing. To compensate, we signed SAR to the mid level exception, and took a risk trading an aging Bjax for Bonzi which paid off. We then signed a backup pointguard to replace BJax. All the moves filled needs and overall the talent level increased.
::IE we lost a starting 2 guard, and backup Point Guard and needed a 4 after trading CWebb. We went out and traded for a starting 2 guard backup point guard and signed a starting PF. All the guys we signed or traded for had histories of performing in the NBA at a solid level.
- This offseason, we went in not really needing much in my oppinion perhaps some front line depth and a backup point guard. with guys like wright, pryzbilla, and maaglore all switching homes depth type bigs were there. When we lost Bonzi we needed a starting 2 so we promoted Kevin to the starter, making us thinner off the bench. The two guys we signed don't have strong NBA pedigress as they are guys who have been around a bit and have never performed at even a marginal level. They certainly don't have the pedigrees of the guys from last offseason.
- After pushing the Spurs and surging after the Artest trade I thought the roster was one that required only marginal kinks to be one of the best teams in the NBA. Looking at the roster now I think we'll realistically finish the season anywhere from the 6-9 position in the west. The Spurs, Mavs, Suns, Clippers are well ahead of us. The Nuggets and Grizz are just a little more talented. We'll be fighting it out with the Hornets, Lakers, Rockets, for the last two spots. I think we're the best of the four, but the Hornets had a great offseason and could take another step and you never know when the Rockets could get healthy and be tough.
After struglling through TONS of lottery teams any time we make the playoffs is a joy, but can I say it was a passing offseason? (C being passing) If the object of every offseason is to improve your team then no, I can't say we're better than the team that lost game 6 to the Spurs, although I do agree with VF that this is a better team than the one that started last year and was in the cellar till artest joined the team.
- While other teams in the West may have done little to improve that doesn't change the fact that our offseason was a net loss of talent. Yes it was good we didn't overpay for Bonzi but we could have just sat on our original offer until he signed it given the fact no one else could give him more money
- To compare, last offseason we let Mobely walk which was a loss of a talented guy for nothing. To compensate, we signed SAR to the mid level exception, and took a risk trading an aging Bjax for Bonzi which paid off. We then signed a backup pointguard to replace BJax. All the moves filled needs and overall the talent level increased.
::IE we lost a starting 2 guard, and backup Point Guard and needed a 4 after trading CWebb. We went out and traded for a starting 2 guard backup point guard and signed a starting PF. All the guys we signed or traded for had histories of performing in the NBA at a solid level.
- This offseason, we went in not really needing much in my oppinion perhaps some front line depth and a backup point guard. with guys like wright, pryzbilla, and maaglore all switching homes depth type bigs were there. When we lost Bonzi we needed a starting 2 so we promoted Kevin to the starter, making us thinner off the bench. The two guys we signed don't have strong NBA pedigress as they are guys who have been around a bit and have never performed at even a marginal level. They certainly don't have the pedigrees of the guys from last offseason.
- After pushing the Spurs and surging after the Artest trade I thought the roster was one that required only marginal kinks to be one of the best teams in the NBA. Looking at the roster now I think we'll realistically finish the season anywhere from the 6-9 position in the west. The Spurs, Mavs, Suns, Clippers are well ahead of us. The Nuggets and Grizz are just a little more talented. We'll be fighting it out with the Hornets, Lakers, Rockets, for the last two spots. I think we're the best of the four, but the Hornets had a great offseason and could take another step and you never know when the Rockets could get healthy and be tough.
After struglling through TONS of lottery teams any time we make the playoffs is a joy, but can I say it was a passing offseason? (C being passing) If the object of every offseason is to improve your team then no, I can't say we're better than the team that lost game 6 to the Spurs, although I do agree with VF that this is a better team than the one that started last year and was in the cellar till artest joined the team.
Well I felt we needed some role players and I think we have some good prospects in Amundson and Williams. I like the signing of Woods because he has shown that when he gets the minutes he will rebound and block shots. I also love the young talent we have right now. They may all be 6'7" "swingmen" or whatever you want to call it, but none of them are copies of the others. They all compliment eachother very well. I think this is the perfect team for Ron Artest to lead.
I still wouldn't rule out any trades. While I don't think any major moves will occur until after the season is underway, whatever pieces that don't fit will stick out like a sore thumb and will be dealt with.
I still wouldn't rule out any trades. While I don't think any major moves will occur until after the season is underway, whatever pieces that don't fit will stick out like a sore thumb and will be dealt with.
I like Kenny Thomas as a basketball player. I think he fits in well with our starting group as long as he understands his role, rebounding and inside presence, not shot taking or play making. No one is going to do what Webb did for this team, but that being said, I don't see keeping Kenny a problem, as long as he can act like a team player.
Can't defend his position, nor help anyone else defend theirs. Does the one thing well, but not spectacularly. Because we are so pathetic on the glass, and may have gotten moreso this summer, what he brings has real value to us. I remember breaking us down reboundingwise at the end of last season, and given that we did nothing in the offseason it should mostly still apply --with Bonzi's departure Kenny is quite literally the ONLY major minute rotation type guy on the squad who was a good rebounder last year. But that said, you give up almost everything else to get that. He refuses to play his best off the bench, so his only useful role becomes as a roleplaying starter. Which of course he grumps about too because he doesn't get his shots or minutes. And meanwhile your team has the smallest starting PF in the entire NBA -- a guy who maybe starts for an Atlanta type rebuilder, not a wannabe impact team.
It would be interesting to break down the roster movements of the past few years and see why we are where we are. We've had a revolving door at shooting guard since Christie left, the backup small forward has become 'where young talent goes to die', and our lack of rebounding or inside presence has been routinely ignored.
You start with the loss of Divac and the fact that no real replacement has been found since. Then the Christie trade, which got Mobley who management let go for nothing. So Petrie has to trade our backup PG for a starting SG. Now Bonzi is looking like he might be let go for nothing in return as well, and the Kings haven't been able to find a replacement for Bobby Jackson. They've repeatidly drafted swingmen when their needs were elsewhere. It was fine at first, when they needed someone to replace Christie soon, but now it's just musical chairs. Garcia was the pick last year, and now he'll be backing up at SF and thats not good for him. Backup SF is where Hedo and Wallace went to waste. I doubt Francisco gets much time behind Artest.
Just to examine the SG spot, which seems to be what the whole mess revolves around:
Players lost due to the SG 'fiasco': Christie, Mobley, Jackson and likely Wells
Players gained due to the SG 'fiasco': Kevin Martin, Francisco Garcia, Douby and Jason Hart
You lose say four players who can start in the NBA, for one player who can start and three backups. Obviously Christie can't start anymore, but at the time he could.
You start with the loss of Divac and the fact that no real replacement has been found since. Then the Christie trade, which got Mobley who management let go for nothing. So Petrie has to trade our backup PG for a starting SG. Now Bonzi is looking like he might be let go for nothing in return as well, and the Kings haven't been able to find a replacement for Bobby Jackson. They've repeatidly drafted swingmen when their needs were elsewhere. It was fine at first, when they needed someone to replace Christie soon, but now it's just musical chairs. Garcia was the pick last year, and now he'll be backing up at SF and thats not good for him. Backup SF is where Hedo and Wallace went to waste. I doubt Francisco gets much time behind Artest.
Just to examine the SG spot, which seems to be what the whole mess revolves around:
Players lost due to the SG 'fiasco': Christie, Mobley, Jackson and likely Wells
Players gained due to the SG 'fiasco': Kevin Martin, Francisco Garcia, Douby and Jason Hart
You lose say four players who can start in the NBA, for one player who can start and three backups. Obviously Christie can't start anymore, but at the time he could.
While our overall talent may not have increased, it doesn't mean we became a worse team. We have more solid players availabe to us off the bench in Salmons, KT or SAR, Garcia, and maybe even Price. I consider us better than the Nuggets and Grizz. THe only 2 positions the Rockets have better than ours is SG and C. We are better than the Lakers and the Hornets haven't proved anything as of yet. KMART could become better than Bonzi ever was and if he continues to work hard, he might even become an All-Star some day. While i liked Bonzi, having our SG and SF in the post could eventually come back and bite us in the *** when teams figured out our strategy. With KMART on the wing we have Artest in the post and Martin on the perimeter. Quickness (martin) and strenght(artest) can be even more of a deadly combination than just our shooting guard and SF making a living in the post were they could get double teamed easily and have only big men to pass the ball to on the perimeter. This way we have both.
I voted C. This was an average of two outlooks.
I think in terms of an offseason that makes us better for THIS season it really was a D or an F. Losing Adelman could hurt in the short run. Losing Bonzi with no compensation almost certainly will. Even though there weren't a ton of options, it still hurts not to get a big, defensive big.
I liked the offseason as it regards to our future and that it could end up being a B or even A. I think not signing Bonzi will work out as Kevin develops and we keep some salary cap space next year. I liked the Douby pick. I REALLY liked picking up Williams and Amundson. As UDFA you gotta take it with a grain of salt, but their upside is athletic bigs who rebound and block shots. Maybe in a year or two they'll be in house remedies for our biggest weakness. I was for letting Adelman go, and love Muss as a replacement.
Overall, I think they'll be fun to watch, but I don't have really high expectations for the coming season. I think the realistic upside for this season is maybe a 5-6 seed and a first round win. Maybe even a 2nd round if they're hot and get a favorable matchup. Realistic downside barring any major injuries is just missing the playoffs.
However, I think we have a lot of pieces for another 2-3 year run at the top starting maybe next year. Just depends on whether or not they actually can swing a deal or have somebody really develop.
I think in terms of an offseason that makes us better for THIS season it really was a D or an F. Losing Adelman could hurt in the short run. Losing Bonzi with no compensation almost certainly will. Even though there weren't a ton of options, it still hurts not to get a big, defensive big.
I liked the offseason as it regards to our future and that it could end up being a B or even A. I think not signing Bonzi will work out as Kevin develops and we keep some salary cap space next year. I liked the Douby pick. I REALLY liked picking up Williams and Amundson. As UDFA you gotta take it with a grain of salt, but their upside is athletic bigs who rebound and block shots. Maybe in a year or two they'll be in house remedies for our biggest weakness. I was for letting Adelman go, and love Muss as a replacement.
Overall, I think they'll be fun to watch, but I don't have really high expectations for the coming season. I think the realistic upside for this season is maybe a 5-6 seed and a first round win. Maybe even a 2nd round if they're hot and get a favorable matchup. Realistic downside barring any major injuries is just missing the playoffs.
However, I think we have a lot of pieces for another 2-3 year run at the top starting maybe next year. Just depends on whether or not they actually can swing a deal or have somebody really develop.
Hardly; the Grizzlies were the team fading down the stretch, not the Clippers. Games that the Clippers lost towards the end were mostly to enable them to take advantage of the hosed-up playoff seeding, knowing that they were better off facing Denver than they were facing Dallas. LA probably could have easily passed Memphis if they had wanted to; I personally watched them essentially "tank" at least two games towards the end, one of which was AGAINST the Grizzlies.
I live near LA...and...I don't really buy the whole fade/tank thing. Clippers are okay...not bad. But, they're not all that wonderful, IMO either.
I'm one of the least homeristic people around...so, I'm not gonna sit here and attempt to say the Kings are one of the best teams in the league. They're not.
That said, Clippers don't do anything for my boat.
I'm one of the least homeristic people around...so, I'm not gonna sit here and attempt to say the Kings are one of the best teams in the league. They're not.
That said, Clippers don't do anything for my boat.