What is Really Going On?

[Kings113]

Good post, Brick i agree. but the whole blame is on Geoff the fact that hes hopeful for Salmons and Woods tells us hes lost his magic. and not all of them is getting much playing time aswell as you mentioned.

there has to be some sort of plan if we're gonna rely on Salmons and Woods.

Musselman likes them both as well. As shown in 1 or 2 articles. Since, the coach obviously has a fair share of input on getting players. So, add Muss to your future blamings.

Far as a "plan" goes, we'll have to see when the off-season is basically over in almost 2 months.

This thread was from someone seemingly bummed by what the Kings had done so far or hadn't done so far. I thought it would be interesting to see what people were saying before the start of last season. My memory didn't totally fail me .......... but it did a little.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7079


How so many of us were so, so wrong. And some who have claimed they were right weren't quite as right as they have led on.

Oh, what hindsight does. I think VF21 has a very good point. Let them play before judgement begins.

Ah, indeed. Whether that proves right again in some form.... time will tell. All 6-7 weeks of it .

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

This thread was from someone seemingly bummed by what the Kings had done so far or hadn't done so far. I thought it would be interesting to see what people were saying before the start of last season. My memory didn't totally fail me .......... but it did a little.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7079


How so many of us were so, so wrong. And some who have claimed they were right weren't quite as right as they have led on.

Oh, what hindsight does. I think VF21 has a very good point. Let them play before judgement begins.

How does a thread in which a bunch of hopelessly optimistic people ended up being way off support the argument of letting them play before passing judgment? If anything, that thread supports the opinion that "giving guys a chance" only leads to disappointment at season's end. Judging by the thread you cited, it seems like pretty much everyone who posted in that thread looked at this team and saw fool's gold.

 

[Entity]

A common misconception around here is that we just let Bonzi walk. We offered him more than ANY other team could in the league. If anybody is to blame for us not having that Ron and Bonzi combo and being able to use our MLE on a defensive big its Bonzi Wells. When HE decided he wanted to go against his statements from a few months then the backup role of Kevin Martin became priority. Not only did we do that but got a backup for Mike and Ron as well in the same player. If you ask me GP did a great job there. We HAD to have a backup to Kevin and the backup PG was questionable at best and Garcia was a wild card. John Salmons filled all those roles in one player. Who else could GP have gotten to fit that bill??? So now we have most of our MLE used up because Bonzi is a liar now we have very little money to spend on a defensive, rebounding, shotblocking backup center. The vets (Kandi, Cato) probably wouldn't even sign with us with what we could offer. So a 7'2 guy that can rebound and block some shots for less than 1 mil a year is not a bad pick up with what we had to work with. Also giving some young rebounding and shotblocking defensive bigs a chance to earn a spot in camp because its all we can afford, well that is a great idea. I am sure we are offering KT,Corlis,Pot for KG but i am guessing they won't bite as are a number of teams not wanting the mess left from the Chris Webber mistake. So all in all GP has done a terrific job if you ask me. I am sure he is offering whatever he can to sure up positions Muss tells him we need to sure up. We just need other teams to bite. Just because it works out on realgm doesn't mean the other team will do it. GP is doing what he can i am sure without haveing to send a KEY piece.

 

[uolj]

How does a thread in which a bunch of hopelessly optimistic people ended up being way off support the argument of letting them play before passing judgment? If anything, that thread supports the opinion that "giving guys a chance" only leads to disappointment at season's end. Judging by the thread you cited, it seems like pretty much everyone who posted in that thread looked at this team and saw fool's gold.

Agreed. This off-season is going a lot like the last offseason. Still looking for the defensive/rebounding big that is good enough to be in the regular rotation. Still hearing, "I think this team isn't done making moves." Lots of optimism that somehow basically the same team that ended the year before will get drastically better.

Last season there was a lot of, "let's wait and see how well they play together before we start saying they can't win it all." Of course, the team ended up sucking together and would have been lottery bound if it weren't for George Maloof (i.e. Ron Artest). Here's hoping that is one thing that doesn't repeat itself.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Ive said it before that I have NO problem with the team going no where this season IF management were setting up for a rebuild NEXT season. Collecting expiring contracts and shifting PT to young prospects to see who has what. Unfourutnatly the (mis)management is doing very little except picking up a hefty contract on a questionalbe vet. None of the major problems with the current roster is being adressed and I don't see a team positiong it's self for either the draft or FA aquisition. Sure there is still time and moves to be made... blah, blah, blah but so far... I am FAR form impressed and worried not just about THIS seaon but the forseeable future as well.

i'm with ya there! i'd like to see our young guys get playing time and possibly get a high draft pick.

 

[SacTownKid]

I am actually pretty excited about what we've got going on. Salmons isn't replacing Bonzi, Kevin Martin is. Not only that but it brings Francisco Garcia into the picture and that excites me more than anything. I think Francisco is a very special player and I think in time we will forget all about the Bonzi thing and realize we may be better off.

I see a ton of nice young talent, some shotblocking, some fire from a new coaching staff, and a pretty well balanced roster. I can't wait to see this team grow.

Not only that but this is a team that a guy like Ron Artest was born to lead. He always seems to do so well with younger players and he'll get his chance this season.

Hey, maybe Geoff is building a team around Ron Artest! Go figure.

 

[Kings113]

I am actually pretty excited about what we've got going on. Salmons isn't replacing Bonzi, Kevin Martin is. Not only that but it brings Francisco Garcia into the picture and that excites me more than anything. I think Francisco is a very special player and I think in time we will forget all about the Bonzi thing and realize we may be better off.

I see a ton of nice young talent, some shotblocking, some fire from a new coaching staff, and a pretty well balanced roster. I can't wait to see this team grow.

Not only that but this is a team that a guy like Ron Artest was born to lead. He always seems to do so well with younger players and he'll get his chance this season.

Hey, maybe Geoff is building a team around Ron Artest! Go figure.

Definitely agree. I like most of our team right now, and am excited to see Musselman's style.

 

[BMiller52]

i'm with ya there! i'd like to see our young guys get playing time and possibly get a high draft pick.

Yeah like Ron Artest is really going to stand for that. He said he would only come here if we were trying to grab a championship, he'll be pretty pissed if we're just screwing around planning for after he's retired.

 

[Kings113]

Barring long-term injury (god forbird), we're not gonna be a lottery team.

 

[SacTownKid]

Yeah like Ron Artest is really going to stand for that. He said he would only come here if we were trying to grab a championship, he'll be pretty pissed if we're just screwing around planning for after he's retired.

He also said, albeit jokingly (maybe! ), that he feels he could win a championship with a team full of 10 year olds.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yeah like Ron Artest is really going to stand for that. He said he would only come here if we were trying to grab a championship, he'll be pretty pissed if we're just screwing around planning for after he's retired.

Well, we're pretty much just screwing around as it stands today. And yes, it is a concern with Ron how he'll react to the first real adversities he has to face as a King. Throw in his impending free agency and this seemingly would have been the time to make an aggressive move.

 

[TheJoker]

Yeah like Ron Artest is really going to stand for that. He said he would only come here if we were trying to grab a championship, he'll be pretty pissed if we're just screwing around planning for after he's retired.

Errrrr.... he should just get mad right now, because if he expected to win a Championship with this group then hes just as crazy as he really is.

plus i wanna see what he thinks about the Salmons and Woods acquisition that ought to make him pissed off.

Ron is not winning a Championship right now its gonna take 2-3 years atleast.

 

[Kings113]

Errrrr.... he should just get mad right now, because if he expected to win a Championship with this group then hes just as crazy as he really is.

plus i wanna see what he thinks about the Salmons and Woods acquisition that ought to make him pissed off.

Ron is not winning a Championship right now its gonna take 2-3 years atleast.

I think Ron will like Salmons versatility and athleticism, along with his oppurtunity in a new situation with the Kings. Not having AI around, or a setting like he had in Philly. The previous statement being referred to by Salmons and Musselman in the Salmons Bee article.

Woods? Well, I think he'll like his size, length, and athleticism. Along with his oppurtunity in a completely different environment than the Toronto Raptors of the last two seasons.

 

[SacTownKid]

He also said, albeit jokingly (maybe! ), that he feels he could win a championship with a team full of 10 year olds.

Hey Joker! The more I think about it, I don't think he was joking.

I wouldn't worry about Ron Artest being mad about the players we are picking up. If he thought last years team was stacked enough to win it all, I wouldn't think he'd be jumping off a building over our current situation.

 

[TheJoker]

I think he'll be excited about the Salmons acquisition but i'm not sure about Woods.

but if Ron expects a Championship then he should just go make a reality show and talk about his fantasys. it's unfortunate we don't have enough talent to be a contender but the Maloofs did say they want to win but they don't want to go over the Luxury Tax so i'm not sure there motivated to win NOW. but certainly the motivation is there but Ron has to wait his time will come.

 

[TheJoker]

Hey Joker! The more I think about it, I don't think he was joking.

I wouldn't worry about Ron Artest being mad about the players we are picking up. If he thought last years team was stacked enough to win it all, I wouldn't think he'd be jumping off a building over our current situation.

Ron never jokes
​

 

[Kings113]

I think he'll be excited about the Salmons acquisition but i'm not sure about Woods.

but if Ron expects a Championship then he should just go make a reality show and talk about his fantasys. it's unfortunate we don't have enough talent to be a contender but the Maloofs did say they want to win but they don't want to go over the Luxury Tax so i'm not sure there motivated to win NOW. but certainly the motivation is there but Ron has to wait his time will come.

Well, I doubt he's going to get negative or unsure about a player like Woods. Along with knowing the situation the Kings have for him.

 

[TheJoker]

Well, I doubt he's going to get negative or unsure about a player like Woods. Along with knowing the situation the Kings have for him.

He will be supportive i'm sure.

 

[Fresno King]

I'm optimistic about the upcoming season also. I'm confident Petrie has tried to create the best roster possible, but I think he's had to go to plan B this entire offseason.

Wanted to re-sign Wells - offered him the most money - Wells turned it down - went to plan B and signed Salmons

Looked for a defensive big man - dangled Kenny Thomas to everyone and their grandmother - no-one bit - went to plan B and signed Woods, Williams and Amundsen

IMO, Petrie has offered KT, Williamson, Hart and Pot to various teams, but who the hell wants any of them when you step back and look at it? KT's contract and attitude are horrible, Hart and Pot suck, and Corliss is in decline, with an expiring contract. The only other move I see in the forseeable future is a sign and trade with Wells for a post player. I say we take Denver's first round pick in 07 for him, move on, and give the kids a shot.

 

[LPKingsFan]

LOL at the blasting of the "naysayers" last summer, as well as the assurances that KT would be traded by now... some things don't change

 

[Smills91]

Seriously...there is a LOT of negativity here. I'm pretty damn familiar with the NBA. There are FEW players I don't know or are unacquainted with. I'll have to admit. John Salmons and Loren Woods are two players I know less about. Really these two signings remind me of two other Petrie coups from years past. Bobby Jackson for Salmons and Scot Pollard for Loren Woods. Both Jackson and Pollard did NOTHING of merit before Sacramento. But in Sacramento they became ESSENTIAL role players for our roster.

I think this team has similar dynamics of teams of yore, with added TRAITS.

Superstar: Chris Webber --> Ron Artest

2nd fiddle, clutch shooter: Bibby --> Bibby

All-star caliber passing bigman: Vlade --> Brad Miller

Sweet shooting wing player Peja --> Kevin Martin

Tough as nails, defensive specialist with decent all-around game: Doug Christie --> Kenny Thomas

Supersub: Bobby Jackson --> John Salmons

Mr. Versatility: Hedo Turkoglu --> Francisco Garcia

Defensive Big role player: Scot Pollard/Keon Clark --> Loren Woods

Young stud waiting in the wings: Gerald Wallace --> Quincy Douby

EXCELLENT big man off the bench: Darius Songaila --> Shareef

The way I see it the team IS different, but it's also VERY similar too. Positions change, but roles look similar. At this point, this team needs time to gel and play together. I can see this team being anywhere from #2 to #10 in the West next season...just like those first couple seasons with the C-Webb, Vlade, J-Will days. There WILL be trades that come our way and Mr. Petrie awaits the "opportune moments" to strike. Is he flawless, NO! But his track record is proven that WAY more often than not, he makes moves that ENHANCE the team he has assembled. I think he has continued to do that THIS season.

 

[Jerryaki]

^ that's a downgrade at almost every position! there's a reason why with that first group of players the kings were contenders, and now we're not even sure if we have a playoff spot.

if you admit that we can be #2 (that is absolutely shooting for the moon) and #10, then you can see why some fans are pessimistic and have reservations.

 

[GoGoGadget]

In all seriousness, any comparison of the current roster to the former glory days is almost insulting. That was, legitimately, one of the very best teams in the league for a couple of years. This team is very, VERY far from it.

 

[Troy]

A common misconception around here is that we just let Bonzi walk. We offered him more than ANY other team could in the league. If anybody is to blame for us not having that Ron and Bonzi combo and being able to use our MLE on a defensive big its Bonzi Wells. When HE decided he wanted to go against his statements from a few months then the backup role of Kevin Martin became priority. Not only did we do that but got a backup for Mike and Ron as well in the same player. If you ask me GP did a great job there. We HAD to have a backup to Kevin and the backup PG was questionable at best and Garcia was a wild card. John Salmons filled all those roles in one player. Who else could GP have gotten to fit that bill??? So now we have most of our MLE used up because Bonzi is a liar now we have very little money to spend on a defensive, rebounding, shotblocking backup center. The vets (Kandi, Cato) probably wouldn't even sign with us with what we could offer. So a 7'2 guy that can rebound and block some shots for less than 1 mil a year is not a bad pick up with what we had to work with. Also giving some young rebounding and shotblocking defensive bigs a chance to earn a spot in camp because its all we can afford, well that is a great idea. I am sure we are offering KT,Corlis,Pot for KG but i am guessing they won't bite as are a number of teams not wanting the mess left from the Chris Webber mistake. So all in all GP has done a terrific job if you ask me. I am sure he is offering whatever he can to sure up positions Muss tells him we need to sure up. We just need other teams to bite. Just because it works out on realgm doesn't mean the other team will do it. GP is doing what he can i am sure without haveing to send a KEY piece.

I totally agree. Salmons does fill many the 1-3 positions and will be used a lot. Bonzi didn't sign because he wanted more $ than anyone wanted to pay him which is stupid, now he really is in a weird situation. Other teams have to bite on what we want to get rid of as in KT, Corliss, Pot, Hart etc. We did good in getting a 7' 2" guy who is pretty mobile and we have some young firepower who will hopefully be signon on in Amundson and Williams so while is has been a quite offseason, I'm not too worried. We most likely are not going all the way this year, but we have done a good job in rebuilding while still making the playoffs and giving SA the scare of their lives where we very easily could have beaten them. It sucks Bonzi isn't going to be part of this team, because him and Ron create so many match up problems and I love to see them play together, on the flip side we have a young athletic, good shooting, tall...SG in Kmart. Bonzi didn't shoot very good at the SG position and relied on his aggresiveness and slashing ability, Ron does this and is a little bigger so this is very reduntant...couple that with SAR and you have 3 guys on the court that post up and aren't going to spread the floor.

I look forward to next season where we dump 11.5M in Corliss, Pot, and Hart and then can really have some nice $ to spend in what should be a better FA market anyways. I hope GP has other moves, but other teams have to bite and I look forward to a full season of Ron Artest, KMart, and Musselman at the helm....should be fun.

 

[Troy]

In all seriousness, any comparison of the current roster to the former glory days is almost insulting. That was, legitimately, one of the very best teams in the league for a couple of years. This team is very, VERY far from it.

True, but we have a very dynamic young group, where the team we had in 02' was a team ready to challenge...we are a few years from it and have done good to make the playoffs. I don't see us going all the way this year, but you never know, it would be a very very long shot. Players have excelled in Sac and I hope that continues, we have lots of question marks at the moment, but other teams have to bite on trades or they will not happen. We have some sweet candy in expiring contracts, but nobody up until now wants a piece of it. We'll enjoy that next offseason and hopefully be a much more aggresive contender with having $11.5M coming off the books and shopping around. This year's FA market was very limited and we didn't have more than the MLE to play with anyways. We really hoped Bonzi would come back and we offered him the most of any team and he still walked on us, that killed most any chance of landing anyone decent because we sat back so long with trying to resign Bonzi. I think we did good in getting Salmons, although a bit to much $, I hope he brings the versatility he is getting paid for...if he does and subs in for 3 positions, it is worth it, Bibby alone will do a lot better with getting some more rest as will KMart, and Ron.

I still hope Garcia gets some playing time because he was the swingman last year and hasn't been the same since his ankle injury. I wonder how heavily he is being waived with our other heap of spare parts in a trade?

 

[twocents]

Seriously...there is a LOT of negativity here. I'm pretty damn familiar with the NBA. There are FEW players I don't know or are unacquainted with. I'll have to admit. John Salmons and Loren Woods are two players I know less about. Really these two signings remind me of two other Petrie coups from years past. Bobby Jackson for Salmons and Scot Pollard for Loren Woods. Both Jackson and Pollard did NOTHING of merit before Sacramento. But in Sacramento they became ESSENTIAL role players for our roster.

I think this team has similar dynamics of teams of yore, with added TRAITS.

Superstar: Chris Webber --> Ron Artest

2nd fiddle, clutch shooter: Bibby --> Bibby

All-star caliber passing bigman: Vlade --> Brad Miller

Sweet shooting wing player Peja --> Kevin Martin

Tough as nails, defensive specialist with decent all-around game: Doug Christie --> Kenny Thomas

Supersub: Bobby Jackson --> John Salmons

Mr. Versatility: Hedo Turkoglu --> Francisco Garcia

Defensive Big role player: Scot Pollard/Keon Clark --> Loren Woods

Young stud waiting in the wings: Gerald Wallace --> Quincy Douby

EXCELLENT big man off the bench: Darius Songaila --> Shareef

The way I see it the team IS different, but it's also VERY similar too. Positions change, but roles look similar. At this point, this team needs time to gel and play together. I can see this team being anywhere from #2 to #10 in the West next season...just like those first couple seasons with the C-Webb, Vlade, J-Will days. There WILL be trades that come our way and Mr. Petrie awaits the "opportune moments" to strike. Is he flawless, NO! But his track record is proven that WAY more often than not, he makes moves that ENHANCE the team he has assembled. I think he has continued to do that THIS season.

with the sole exception of songaila, each and every position is a downgrade (yes, even bibby of those years was probably better than bibby of the present). that is probably normal considering that that team was the best team of its time.

 

[chelle]

"People are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." - Abraham Lincoln

There is a chance that I am being foolishly optmistic. I freely admit that. I am possibly relying more on hope than facts. If I'm wrong - I'm wrong, but I don't see the same awful outcome to this season as many of you.

I think that we are going to the better than you think. I am aware of our short comings, but they do not look as bleak as they once did. The main negative difference is not having Bonzi. I think Martin is ready to step in as our starter. He will still need to work on being consistent, but I think he is ready for that.

I think most of our other issues were mostly addressed. IMHO, BACKUPS were major issues. Petrie focus on that after Bonzi MADE A CHOICE to walk. I fully expect Brad to return to the player he was when we traded for him. If not exactly, then close. I think he is already in better shape. With Ron, I expect our defense to improve. Not just because he is on the team, but because takes such interest in helping the young and inexperieced players, of which we have many. A new coach may also also help, but don't expect miracles with our veteran players in that regard.

That leaves the issue of a "big man." That is an issue that still needs work. I hope there is another move made before the season starts. Personally, I HATE mid season trades. If not, I still am not yelling, "Lottery, here we come!"

I am not blind enough to say that we are going to win a championship with this exact team. We need a little more work before even I would proclaim that. However, this is not a "team of scrubs."

I hope many of you will be pleasantly suprised with what this team will do. I chose to be excited about this team and to be happy they are all Kings. I will be glad to have them until they show IN A KING'S UNIFORM that they should not be here.

GO KINGS!!

 

[shaka zulu]

Seriously...there is a LOT of negativity here. I'm pretty damn familiar with the NBA. There are FEW players I don't know or are unacquainted with. I'll have to admit. John Salmons and Loren Woods are two players I know less about. Really these two signings remind me of two other Petrie coups from years past. Bobby Jackson for Salmons and Scot Pollard for Loren Woods. Both Jackson and Pollard did NOTHING of merit before Sacramento. But in Sacramento they became ESSENTIAL role players for our roster.

I think this team has similar dynamics of teams of yore, with added TRAITS.

Superstar: Chris Webber --> Ron Artest

2nd fiddle, clutch shooter: Bibby --> Bibby

All-star caliber passing bigman: Vlade --> Brad Miller

Sweet shooting wing player Peja --> Kevin Martin

Tough as nails, defensive specialist with decent all-around game: Doug Christie --> Kenny Thomas

Supersub: Bobby Jackson --> John Salmons

Mr. Versatility: Hedo Turkoglu --> Francisco Garcia

Defensive Big role player: Scot Pollard/Keon Clark --> Loren Woods

Young stud waiting in the wings: Gerald Wallace --> Quincy Douby

EXCELLENT big man off the bench: Darius Songaila --> Shareef

The way I see it the team IS different, but it's also VERY similar too. Positions change, but roles look similar. At this point, this team needs time to gel and play together. I can see this team being anywhere from #2 to #10 in the West next season...just like those first couple seasons with the C-Webb, Vlade, J-Will days. There WILL be trades that come our way and Mr. Petrie awaits the "opportune moments" to strike. Is he flawless, NO! But his track record is proven that WAY more often than not, he makes moves that ENHANCE the team he has assembled. I think he has continued to do that THIS season.

These new players are no way similar to the players of old in any way shape form or fashion. It is like apples and oranges or elephants and mice when you compare the players the systems the coaches etc from now to the past. Ron artest is not even close to the star or player that chris webber is and he probably never will be that caliber of player. Chris webber was the ultimate team player, his basketball IQ was on the phenom level he had the total game from the power forward position and even when he lost his athletic ability he still had game and could function on a high level and alot of it had to do with his heart and will power and a small part of it was the coaching staff and it's abiltiy to maximize the most out of it's players.



Chris did do stupid thangs on the court but it was to his own ineptitude and not to the team as a whole. Chris could take over a basketball game just with rebounding the basketball and other times he would do it with passing the baksetball and then he could get you 50 points when he wanted to do that. Ron has a long ways to get to the level of chris webber as total player.



Now with vlade and miller, Brad was only good with passing the basketball as long as vlade and chris were around, his play making abilties declined as vlade and chris both departed. Vlade was also a born leader. Vlade could be on a team with kobe bryant and shaq and be the leader of that lockeroom, vlade was a master motivator and a guy that gave his team unseen energy things that you cannot teach with just physical ability.



Kevin martin is no way near the shooter peja is and will have a long long way until he get's on that level of shooting the basketball.


Bobby jackson versus johns salmons = The big difference here is heart and will power which seperates the two players by a long long road. Bobby jackson just needed a system and rick adleman's system provided bobby with the chance to use his heart and will power to become a better player.


Keon clark was better all around than woods. Keon even won some games with last second shots when he was here.The productivity between keon clark and leron woods is not even close and comparing woods with pollard they may be the same as far as ability but I think personality wise scott has more drive and hustle to do the dirty role player thangs than loren woods.


The other dudes rahim and douby don't even really count. The bottom line is personality wise and as far as leadership these new players don't come close in comparison to Web vlade and the players of the past.

 

[nbrans]

I think you're pretty much looking at your 2006-2007 Kings and I don't think there will be any major moves. It really seems like teams are gearing up for the trade deadline and the next offseason, which is where I think you'll see a lot more movement. It's going to be a transitional year -- it will be interesting to see how things go with Musselman, and hopefully when the TWolves inevitably suck we'll have a shot at KG.

But this offseason is a dud. I don't necessarily blame Geoff -- there's a lot of luck (and bad luck) and factors outside of a GM's control, such as Bonzi blowing it, Przybilla going back to Portland, Wilcox and Seattle working things out etc. etc. etc., but right now it's looking like a dud.

PS: this doesn't mean there isn't room for optimism. This team is more talented than its record last season and was comatose for half the season, so if Musselman can get some inspired play out of the team and if the young guys continue to develop they could be an exciting team.

 

[Sac.Kings]

On foxsports (dimesmack article i think), it said that we inquired about Cato and Olawakandi. I have not seen or read anything of the sort, is this true? It said that it was in the Sacramento Bee.